Real Life Fundie Encounters: Part 5

[Petronella]

Not sure if this counts as a fundie encounter per se, but I was evangelized last week! Well, attempted evangelized. I hated it!

A friend and I walked past the new mosque in our city. When it was completed it had been the talk of the town, and I've heard that it's very beautiful inside. There are lots of school visits and open days to encourage the community to appreciate it, but I haven't been inside yet. We paused by the gate to admire some of the exterior decoration and then walked on.

A man coming the other way noticed our interest and stopped to tell us that he had been one of the builders. He expressed how proud he was to have worked on it, and how happy he was to attend there as a member of the congregation (is that the right word for a gathered Muslim group?). We were happy to hear of his happiness! All smiles. He encouraged us that visiting is welcome and we can call or email the mosque office to make an appointment. We felt about 90% warmly welcomed; the other 10% was "two women feeling cornered by a man who doesn't understand why there's an uncomfortable pressure inherent here as he just KEEPS TALKING."

And boy, did he keep talking! Asked if we've read any of the Koran. Offered to get us Korans. Explained prophecies that predicted Mohammed and why I shouldn't be a Christian anymore but should be a Muslim instead. (Annoyance levels rising.) Asked me if I've heard those prophecies before, and what I thought they meant. I politely said how that prophecy is typically interpreted Christian-wise (because he asked), and he went into a rehearsed spiel as to how that interpretation is wrong! Wrong, wrong, wrong! I finally interrupted to say, "Hey, I respect your religion, could you please respect mine?"

This is what made my blood boil. He paused, smiled with smug pity, and said, "Ah, I see. You're becoming defensive." He nodded to himself, as if his unassailable logic had been so tremendous that my reluctance to convert on the spot could only be because of emotional defensiveness on my part.

So I said, "No, you're becoming an asshole." And we walked away.

Ugh! And it started out so well! If you just share what works for you, share why something makes you happy, some people will likely be attracted to that. Great! And those who make different choices for themselves will likely still like you. Why take that last, fateful step of saying not only that you're doing a good thing, but they are doing a bad thing? Why? IT'S NOT NECESSARY. If I had been open to converting, his welcome would have been enough to encourage me to visit the mosque another time. If I'm not open to converting (or "seeking" as Christianese puts it) then criticizing me just makes me dislike and mistrust you. It's disrespectful.

Note: this is NOT typical of Muslim people in our city. He was just a random jerk.

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Petronella

[anniebgood]

We recently went on an Alaskan Cruise on the NCL Bliss (wonderful BTW).  When we boarded there was a large group of what I believed to be Mennonites. Long dresses and small caps or headbands, and the guys in chinos and button up shirts. Later we saw them on a shore excursion with Alaska sweatshirts. They spoke German among themselves and seemed to be having a great time. 

[FeministShrew]

@Petronella I had a similar experience with a friend of a friend.
One of my closest friends is Bahá'í. Sometimes she's really into it, and other times she's not. During one of her "into it" phases, I went to a few in-home meetings and feasts with her, because her husband & kids aren't Bahá'í, she didn't like going alone, and, though I left religion behind years ago, I still like learning about different religious beliefs and meeting new people.  She was always very adamant that they aren't supposed to proselytize, but welcome everyone with no pressure. Most of the people were nice and genuinely friendly and welcoming, and never even mentioned me joining. I'd also met many of them at non religious movie nights and dinner parties my friend frequently hosted.

One lady, however, was extremely pushy. She assumed I was a serious "seeker," and really pushed me hard to come to study groups. I kept politely telling her no, and she kept approaching me, trying to give me literature to read, &  giving me dates of study circles. Finally, my friend told her plainly that I was not interested in becoming a Bahá'í, and that pushy lady was out of line for trying so hard to convert me.  
Even though I've seen this lady many times since at my friend's house, she refuses to talk to me. She either gives me dirty looks and turns her back on me, or ignores me. Everyone else is still as nice as can be when I see them. 
So it's not just Christian evangelicals & fundies who can be annoying. Even if I had been interested, she would have put me right off it. 

[Marmion]

20 minutes ago, FeministShrew said:

One lady, however, was extremely pushy. She assumed I was a serious "seeker," and really pushed me hard to come to study groups. I kept politely telling her no, and she kept approaching me, trying to give me literature to read, &  giving me dates of study circles. Finally, my friend told her plainly that I was not interested in becoming a Bahá'í, and that pushy lady was out of line for trying so hard to convert me.  
Even though I've seen this lady many times since at my friend's house, she refuses to talk to me. She either gives me dirty looks and turns her back on me, or ignores me. Everyone else is still as nice as can be when I see them. 
So it's not just Christian evangelicals & fundies who can be annoying. Even if I had been interested, she would have put me right off it

I wonder if maybe the lady was previously a member of some sort of cult .   From what I understand , and possibly have come to realize about my own self , is that even after leaving a high intensity group , the person will still for some time at least retain a narrow doctrinaire mindset , characteristic of a cultlike devotion .  

[Marmion]

I just concluded a real life fundie encounter .   About a month ago , while shopping at this secondhand store , Gems   , I had noticed a couple books by Gwen Shamblin .  Well today I knew that I would be returning to the area , so what I did was I took a couple post it notes , and on each I wrote the web address to both http://spiritwatch.org/remnantwatch.htm  , and 

.  I determined that if the books were still there , I would stick them just  inside each book .  After awhile of searching for them , I finally found them both , in a small subsection under " spiritual dieting " , so I did as I set out to do .  I noticed other fundamentalist , and cultist books there too though .  So there must be plenty of people from that sort of background that donated them .  

[Petronella]

4 hours ago, Marmion said:

After awhile of searching for them , I finally found them both , in a small subsection under " spiritual dieting " , so I did as I set out to do .  I noticed other fundamentalist , and cultist books there too though .  So there must be plenty of people from that sort of background that donated them .  

Wait, wait, wait—what ELSE was under “spritual dieting”???

[Briefly]

20 hours ago, Marmion said:

I just concluded a real life fundie encounter .   About a month ago , while shopping at this secondhand store , Gems   , I had noticed a couple books by Gwen Shamblin .  Well today I knew that I would be returning to the area , so what I did was I took a couple post it notes , and on each I wrote the web address to both http://spiritwatch.org/remnantwatch.htm  , and 

.  I determined that if the books were still there , I would stick them just  inside each book .  After awhile of searching for them , I finally found them both , in a small subsection under " spiritual dieting " , so I did as I set out to do .  I noticed other fundamentalist , and cultist books there too though .  So there must be plenty of people from that sort of background that donated them .  

I like your idea. I have bought and shredded a few books but I abhor censorship and have never felt right about it - even though it was keeping Created to be His Helpmeet out of the hands of someone who could be harmed by it, and also a couple of Gwod's books.  I think I'm going to adopt your idea.

[Marmion]

17 hours ago, Petronella said:

Wait, wait, wait—what ELSE was under “spritual dieting”???

IIRC , just about one or two other books , by some guy who's name I didn't pay notice to .  It was mostly just the two by Gwen Shamblin .  The subsection wasn't large at all , and funny enough was in the same aisle as cooking / recipe books .  So like I posted above in the thread , it took me numerous times searching through both that aisle , plus the much more extensive religion aisle , before I finally spotted it .  

[CTRLZero]

I was in the lower Broadway (honky tonk) area of Nashville reprobating and people watching. when the following drove by, megaphone blasting.  What is funny, is that there is such a regular parade of pedal taverns, party barges, tractors pulling wagon loads of partiers, etc., that these folks hardly stood out in the crowd.  Fortunately, they went by twice, so I was able to get the photo.  My snarky thought was that they are snowbirds on their way to Florida, and this is their way of getting a tax write-off for the journey.  Anyone heard of Christ is the Answer Ministries?  The sign indicated that they were traveling from Illinois to Florida, but I couldn't find an entity specifically in Illinois.  Anyway, for your viewing pleasure:

 

 

[Marmion]

25 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

Anyone heard of Christ is the Answer Ministries ?

I came up with three possibilities .  All of which are Pentecostal sects .   This one I think is most likely https://cita-usa.com/cita/about/about_cita.asp   , I think , as the other two http://newcitam.org/contact-us-2-2-3.shtml   ,  http://usa.citam.org  are made up of a membership that's a bit more darkly complected than those in the picture you provided , if you know what I mean .  

[Marmion]

On 10/13/2019 at 2:41 AM, Petronella said:

Wait, wait, wait—what ELSE was under “spritual dieting”???

Here is what else is included under this category .  Lose It For Life , by 

Quote

Steve Arterburn   

, Choosing To Change , by Carole Lewis  , Faith Based Fitness , by Dr. Kenneth Cooper  , Inner Selves , by Janet Cunningham  , and Faith And Fitness , by Tom P. Hafer   

[ViolaSebastian]

I went today to meet with the director of an historic home in our area, because I'm now volunteering there as a docent. From the sounds of it, the director is "woke" in all the best ways and really makes an effort to teach what she calls "trauma-informed history" and does not shy away from telling about the history of slavery there. We were chatting about school tours and how I'd like to help out with them, and she casually mentioned homeschooling groups that came. Without a pause she moaned "homeschooling groups are the worst." She followed this up by saying that it can be difficult to teach some homeschooling groups because they honestly believe that it was a mercy to slaves that they were brought here instead of staying in Africa and that they were introduced to Christianity. I put two and two together and I'm 100% sure she's talking about fundies. I've seen enough of the homeschooling curricula that our fundies use and it's really no surprise. I'm sure I'll have more to report back on as I get into actually doing tours.

[Nolongeroppressed8.4]

On 1/15/2019 at 10:13 PM, EowynW said:

I stumbled across the fundie guy who tried to court me years ago. He later lost interest because I was too fat, LOL. I dodged a bullet. 

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100020363225748&ref=content_filter

Ohhhh my you sure did. 
 

[Marmion]

23 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Without a pause she moaned "homeschooling groups are the worst." She followed this up by saying that it can be difficult to teach some homeschooling groups because they honestly believe that it was a mercy to slaves that they were brought here instead of staying in Africa and that they were introduced to Christianity. I put two and two together and I'm 100% sure she's talking about fundies. I've seen enough of the homeschooling curricula that our fundies use and it's really no surprise. I'm sure I'll have more to report back on as I get into actually doing tours.

As a part of historic American literature , one of the poems I had to read , when I was part of the Christian Liberty Academy homeschol program  , was this poem by Phillis Wheatley  .  https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45465/on-being-brought-from-africa-to-america   Oh yeah , as you all probably already have guessed , they are notably Christian Reconstructionist .  

Quote

Similarly, the Christian “home schooling” movement is part of the longterm revolutionary strategy of Reconstructionism. One of the principal home schooling curricula is provided by Reconstructionist Paul Lindstrom of Christian Liberty Academy (CLA) in Arlington Heights, Illinois. CLA claims that it serves about 20,000 families. Its 1994 curriculum included a book on “Biblical Economics” by Gary North. Home schooling advocate Christopher Klicka, who has been deeply influenced by R. J. Rushdoony, writes: “Sending our children to the public school violates nearly every Biblical principle. . . .It is tantamount to sending our children to be trained by the enemy.” He claims that the public schools are Satan’s choice. Klicka also advocates religious selfsegregation and advises Christians not to affiliate with non-Christian home schoolers in any way. “The differences I am talking about,” declares Klicka, “have resulted in wars and martyrdom in the not too distant past.” According to Klicka, who is an attorney with the Home School Legal Defense Association, “as an organization, and as individuals, we are committed to promote the cause of Christ and His Kingdom.”

Estimates of the number of home schooling families vary enormously. Conservatively, there are certainly over 100,000. Klicka estimates that 85-90 percent of home schoolers are doing so “based on their religious convictions.” “In effect,” he concludes, “these families are operating religious schools in their homes.” A fringe movement no longer, Christian home schoolers are being actively recruited by the archconservative Hillsdale College.

 

https://bulldogger.wordpress.com/2010/03/11/christian-reconstructionism-theocratic-dominionism-gains-influence/  

[ViolaSebastian]

2 minutes ago, Marmion said:

As a part of historic American literature , one of the poems I had to read , when I was part of the Christian Liberty Academy homeschol program  , was this poem by Phillis Wheatley  .  https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45465/on-being-brought-from-africa-to-america   Oh yeah , as you all probably already have guessed , they are notably Christian Reconstructionist .  

https://bulldogger.wordpress.com/2010/03/11/christian-reconstructionism-theocratic-dominionism-gains-influence/  

Oh dear Rufus, that poem is awful.  It hurts my heart, but I appreciate you sharing it with me. I'm actually going to forward it and this article to the director with whom I had the aforementioned conversation. 

[EmainMacha]

14 hours ago, Marmion said:

As a part of historic American literature , one of the poems I had to read , when I was part of the Christian Liberty Academy homeschol program  , was this poem by Phillis Wheatley  .  https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45465/on-being-brought-from-africa-to-america   Oh yeah , as you all probably already have guessed , they are notably Christian Reconstructionist .  

https://bulldogger.wordpress.com/2010/03/11/christian-reconstructionism-theocratic-dominionism-gains-influence/  

I'd never heard of Phillis Wheatley before. Her life story is very interesting, though ultimately tragic. So awful to die but in penury. It seems as though her intent in writing the poem was different than I imagine Christian Reconstructionists might teach.

[AnnC]

Thank you for this introduction to Wheatly.  I agree, what a tragic story.  Now i am going down the rabbit hole to figure out what happened to her infant after her death.  If her husband was imprisoned, and she died that same year.. where did the child go? 

Very sad.

Report from ye olde Rabbit hole

According to this source the child died within hours of her own death.

https://blackthen.com/december-5-1784-phillis-wheatley-died/

Then I found a 1976 NY Times review of children's play based on her life.  In that review a few interesting bits came forward:  Ben Franklin referring to her as the "the black princess of poety", that the  Wheatley's treated her as a pet.  With her freedom came an introduction to manual labor that took a terrific toll.

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by AnnC
update, corrections then correcting corrections. doh!

[PennySycamore]

I saw three ultra Orthodox men and a little boy a few minutes ago  that in JFK airport.  That’s something we don’t often see in upstate SC.

[neuroticcat]

!!! Misdirected package delivered tonight to my address from The King’s Daughters Boutique. Googled and it is indeed a fundie clothing shop!

 

Correct address but to a person who has never lived here. I contacted the company but I do hope they decide the hassle of return postage isn’t worth it. I’m dying to know what’s inside!!!

What are the chances???

[FeministShrew]

I actually like some of their stuff, but damn! Some of it is short & tight! So on one hand maxi dresses & skirt extenders, but on the other hand, short, tight, ass-hugging pencil skirts. They must serve a wide spectrum of ideas on modesty.

ETA: short by most fundie standards, that is!

Edited November 19, 2019 by FeministShrew

[Marmion]

On 11/19/2019 at 4:36 PM, FeministShrew said:

I actually like some of their stuff, but damn! Some of it is short & tight! So on one hand maxi dresses & skirt extenders, but on the other hand, short, tight, ass-hugging pencil skirts. They must serve a wide spectrum of ideas on modesty.

ETA: short by most fundie standards, that is!

Just because a store is run by devout Christians it doesn't necessarily translate into particularly modest fashion . Take for example Forever 21 , which is owned by an expressly Christian  family .  https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/jul/17/forever-21-fast-fashion-america  Would you say that their clothes look like what a fundie might be thought to wear ?   

[neuroticcat]

I finally opened it because I never heard back from the shop. XL denim knee length skirt. ?

Then the next day a neighbor I hadn’t met came by to claim it. She accidentally put our address. !!!

[mango_fandango]

I’ve heard of another fundie clothing site called The King’s Daughters... super fundie. Like Amish/Mennonite style fundie (although I know that Mennonites don’t all dress like this, some are modern modest). Mostly dresses, elbow length sleeves minimum and nothing other than ankle length.

http://www.thekingsdaughters.com
 

On the other hand, there’s a Baptist church in my hometown. On the sign it says “independent, bible believing”. I did a little more investigating, and it sounds fairly fundie to me. Their website has a section of tracts/booklets, including a 127-page booklet on “the biblical case for geocentricity” (as in the Earth is the centre of the universe)... they’re also young Earth creationist, evolution is wrong, use the KJV etc. It used to be called Bethel Strict Baptist Church, although the current sign doesn’t include the “strict”. So I did a little googling into Strict Baptism (main thing is that communion is only open to those who are baptised).

But yeah, bizarre to think there’s a fundie-sounding church in my hometown! 

[smittykins]

I notice they also sell cloth menstrual pads.  Interesting.

[neuroticcat]

2 hours ago, smittykins said:

I notice they also sell cloth menstrual pads.  Interesting.

I’m not going to lie. I loved it when I switched to cloth. So much more comfortable and ecofriendly...But I get them on amazon!