Jinjer 45: First a Preacher then a Seminarian

[viii]

On 12/3/2018 at 9:20 AM, SassyPants said:

It seems as if DD does not know how to truly lead (as per his role in this arrangement) and help to nurture and develop Jill's interests. In the absence of such, Jill is flailing and clinging more strongly to DD; more dead weight than sail- Conversly, Jeremy seemingly has helped and encouraged Jinger to develop and let her true self shine. Reading, fashion, athletic pursuits, art, music...

I don't think this is fair. Jill and Jinger are both SAHM's. Jinger stayed at home for a year unemployed while she wasn't even pregnant. We have no idea if Derick or Jeremy have encouraged interests in their wives or not. Jill has definitely developed a personality since she lived with her parents - she actively blogs and seems quite involved in her church. I would say she has cultivated just as many interests as Jinger from what we know (or from what we're shown - which is precious little)

[SapphireSlytherin]

2 hours ago, viii said:

Jinger stayed at home for a year unemployed while she wasn't even pregnant.

But do we know this as fact? Or is it just an assumption? I recall reading other assumptions that she might have been working at her husband's church.

Again - these people don't share their 24/7 lives with us... they only share what they want/what TLC will show.

[viii]

Good point, she could have worked. 

[TeaELSee]

3 hours ago, HereticHick said:

I see the Jinger and Jeremy were still in Dallas as of Monday afternoon--which makes me agree that Jeremy is there for more than just a Sunday guest preaching slot--he's there for a job interview.

I’ve always thought Laredo was just a stepping stone for Jeremy so this would be a logical move if it pays well. I have no idea how much startup churches, or any churches for that matter pay.  I just assumed it was low.

The fact that they purchased a home in Laredo does make me wonder though. Homes are long term investment. I can’t imagine the housing market in Laredo is robust enough to buy and sell a house without losing money within a year or 2.  

[singsingsing]

Doesn't Jeremy's Masters Seminary thing have a physical location in Dallas, or am I remembering incorrectly? They could be looking to move there for his program if that's the case. (And if this has already been brought up, I apologize!)

[Carm_88]

4 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Doesn't Jeremy's Masters Seminary thing have a physical location in Dallas, or am I remembering incorrectly? They could be looking to move there for his program if that's the case. (And if this has already been brought up, I apologize!)

I believe that it does. Do they do exams or is his guest preaching part of his schooling?

[HereticHick]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

Doesn't Jeremy's Masters Seminary thing have a physical location in Dallas, or am I remembering incorrectly? They could be looking to move there for his program if that's the case. (And if this has already been brought up, I apologize!)

Yes, they have a "Distance Location" in Dallas: https://www.tms.edu/academics/degree-programs/master-of-divinity/distance-locations/

Perhaps they could keep their Laredo house and rent it out to whatever preacher replaces Jeremy at the church plant?

Or they could fill it with pregnant young women whom they coerced into not have abortions? Give them a safe, free place to live for a while? [just kidding]

[SassyPants]

5 hours ago, viii said:

I don't think this is fair. Jill and Jinger are both SAHM's. Jinger stayed at home for a year unemployed while she wasn't even pregnant. We have no idea if Derick or Jeremy have encouraged interests in their wives or not. Jill has definitely developed a personality since she lived with her parents - she actively blogs and seems quite involved in her church. I would say she has cultivated just as many interests as Jinger from what we know (or from what we're shown - which is precious little)

Unfortunately, Jill has to bust hump more than Jinger because she chose an ill tempered headship who cannot seem to hold onto a paying job, and is such a loose cannon that even his wife and kids have had their jobs terminated.

Too bad, so sad-

[FundieCentral]

He could be taking exams or participating in other classroom activities on the Dallas Campus then. 

I would submit that a job interview is not the only reason to travel during a neighboring city during the work week if one only works on Sundays  

[singsingsing]

23 minutes ago, FundieCentral said:

He could be taking exams or participating in other classroom activities on the Dallas Campus then. 

I would submit that a job interview is not the only reason to travel during a neighboring city during the work week if one only works on Sundays  

I'm very certain that Jeremy doesn't only work on Sundays. There's a lot more to being a pastor than just showing up at the church on Sunday morning and giving the sermon! And I'm not sure I would call Dallas and Laredo neighbouring cities. Aren't they like 6 or 7 hours apart by car? I totally agree that a job interview isn't the only reason for him to be there, but (correct me if I'm wrong), I don't think anyone was saying it was... just offering it as a possibility.

[AtlanticTug]

None of the Duggars have been shown to have great work ethic except for JB and Michelle BEFORE they started popping out a zillion children. For all their talk of financial security and requiring that future husbands of their daughters be financially prudent and independent, they've done precious little to instil anything of the sort in their own children. Sorry but "buy used and save the difference" isn't enough (especially if you're Jessa and you decide to buy 39 pairs of used jeans for your toddlers...you're not saving much there, sister, but I digress). However, at least we can give somewhat of a pass to the girls/women since they were clearly never expected to work. Why they are such horrible homemakers I'll never understand, but again, it comes down to the fact that this entire family is lazy at the core of it. They are not unique here - it looks like most of the other large fundie families appear to be equally as lazy and spend more effort on grifting and expecting other people/society to support their habit of indiscriminate breeding than they do on being self-sufficient.

Jill is idiotic with the besthubbyever but come on the BAAAAABE stuff is just as hideous. Made moreso by the fact that BAAAAABE himself believes himself to be a BABE. I don't think Derrick thinks he's besthubbyever, in fact I don't think he thinks about Jill or his family much at all.

[socalrules]

I think if Jinger has been doing any work during that year we would know about it. 

I have always been in the camp that Jinger gets a free pass while her sisters are vilified. I guess because she once rolled her eyes in an episode and gets to now wear pretty clothes that somehow makes her different and more mature in the eyes of some. She has done nothing, even since being married, to lead me to believe she is any different than her sisters. If anything, she appears to have been a follower of Jessa and now of her husband. Jinger, like Jana, talked much less on the show than her sisters so somehow it is taken that she is a kinder, gentler, less hateful fundy.  Jinger has the same hateful beliefs as her sisters but gets to wear pretty clothes so it’s ok. I doubt she worked, she hasn’t gone to school and basically every post is about her husband Babe, which is pretty much the same thing Jill does with her Best Hubby Ever but Jill is not as fashionably polished so she is considered all kinds of wrong. Jill has her issues but she is the only one who has tried to better herself. Her midwife education might be lacking but it puts her ahead of her sisters because she at least tried to better herself. Hell, she is the best educated of all her siblings. It may not be much but it’s better than nothing. She actually has something to put on a resume.

 

[TheMustardCardigan]

I've long been in the camp that Jeremy is a lot like Wreck, just in shinier packaging. Jinger is a lot of people's pet fundie here so she naturally gets more free passes, plus she and Jeremy have a social media presence that is 100x more polished than Jill and Wreck. But it's kinda the same at the core. While Wreck posts hateful tweets about trans teenagers, Jeremy is busy signing off on an anti-LGBT manifesto. Jill posts poorly lit, out of focus photos of her, the kids, and #besthubbyever with a messy room as the background-- Jinger posts super posed, this-is-probably-the-fortieth-take photos of her and the family in stylish clothing, and while said photos were being taken she probably said BAAABE three times. Both are meek fundie wives who stand silent while their husbands say unacceptable things.

I don't shy away from mocking the Dillards but the Vuolos really aren't that different.

I also feel like we would've heard about it if Jinger had a job-- the Vuolos' social media strategy has this undercurrent of "we are different/better than the other Duggarlings but also equally God-fearing and Fundie." They actively try to seem more sophisticated than her Tater Tot Casserole roots with things like their photos posing with newspapers, books, National Geographic.  Promoting Jinger having some ministry-related job would've been one more way to spin that message. You can see a little of that in their promotion of Jeremy and Jinger's involvement in the charity for kids with incarcerated parents.

[CarrotCake]

I remember from earlier episodes that all Jinger did when they were living in the apartment was trying to do the laundry and wait for Jeremy to come home. Nothing close to a job, they did not even show a hobby she would devote her time to.

I agree that Jinger is not doing anything more than Jill, actually less because she does not need to homeschool yet. I am wondering if they will let Felicity go to school, I think they will. I do hope that by that time Jinger will do something for the church because now her life is just empty. Like Jill's.

[FundieCentral]

@singsingsing: Sorry yes, I misspoke. It was went to be a tongue in cheek comment about the fact that they have both been traveling a lot on (what to me looks like) non-church business and would surely find plenty of other reasons to travel to Dallas (charity! Shopping! God’s calling!) other than work. 

And I know there’s more to being a pastor, but I just honestly don’t get the impression that either one of them is taking their church all that seriously. Maybe that’s an unfair judgment; it’s just that none of the pastors I know have been able afford traveling this much (they’d take a pay cut and invest in church things), buy a house within a year of starting the job, have two nice cars, spend a visibly large amount of time arranging pictures for social media, or writing manifestos. They would mostly be busy with church-related activities of various kinds, like sermons, bible studies, kids’ clubs, church renovations, pre-wedding counseling, other counseling, and other things like that. I don’t know. Basically the hand-crafted social media makes me think that either 1) they prefer the lifestyle of being a pastor for now but in the long-term see themselves pursuing a career as a “Christian celebrity” couple as opposed to being lifelong pastors of this church or 2) it’s possibly more difficult/strenuous than it sounds so they’re using these trips and social media to get a break. 

[Mama Mia]

I really don’t understand all the disdain towards any of the sisters for not “working”, or traveling with their husbands. They are stay at home mom’s. Before that they are the old fashioned word - housewives. Their social media feeds don’t look markedly different than any of the many mom’s of young kids I know in real life. 90% of their posts are about their kids or a visit with family or some new recipe. Their’s  are more likely to be scatered  with posts about a night out at a club or show than God references - but really, that’s the main difference. 

They can afford to travel and stay home with their kids, largely because they have a job of being a tv personality, or because their parents built up a mini business empire, so they don’t have to bust ass at some job they don’t necessarily want. 

It’s kind of misogynistic, IMHO, to go down the “ just “ a housewife / stay at home mom route. And I’m someone who went to college while having babies and worked full-time while raising them. 

[HarleyQuinn]

52 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

I really don’t understand all the disdain towards any of the sisters for not “working”, or traveling with their husbands. They are stay at home mom’s. Before that they are the old fashioned word - housewives. Their social media feeds don’t look markedly different than any of the many mom’s of young kids I know in real life. 90% of their posts are about their kids or a visit with family or some new recipe. Their’s  are more likely to be scatered  with posts about a night out at a club or show than God references - but really, that’s the main difference. 

They can afford to travel and stay home with their kids, largely because they have a job of being a tv personality, or because their parents built up a mini business empire, so they don’t have to bust ass at some job they don’t necessarily want. 

It’s kind of misogynistic, IMHO, to go down the “ just “ a housewife / stay at home mom route. And I’m someone who went to college while having babies and worked full-time while raising them. 

I think most are referring to when she didn't have kids to look after? 

[TeaELSee]

51 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

It’s kind of misogynistic, IMHO, to go down the “ just “ a housewife / stay at home mom route. And I’m someone who went to college while having babies and worked full-time while raising them. 

They live in a misogynistic society and we’re not given the opportunity to do or be anything else. Being a Mom or housewife by choice is not a fair comparison.

[VelociRapture]

10 hours ago, socalrules said:

I think if Jinger has been doing any work during that year we would know about it. 

I have always been in the camp that Jinger gets a free pass while her sisters are vilified. I guess because she once rolled her eyes in an episode and gets to now wear pretty clothes that somehow makes her different and more mature in the eyes of some. She has done nothing, even since being married, to lead me to believe she is any different than her sisters. If anything, she appears to have been a follower of Jessa and now of her husband. Jinger, like Jana, talked much less on the show than her sisters so somehow it is taken that she is a kinder, gentler, less hateful fundy.  Jinger has the same hateful beliefs as her sisters but gets to wear pretty clothes so it’s ok. I doubt she worked, she hasn’t gone to school and basically every post is about her husband Babe, which is pretty much the same thing Jill does with her Best Hubby Ever but Jill is not as fashionably polished so she is considered all kinds of wrong. Jill has her issues but she is the only one who has tried to better herself. Her midwife education might be lacking but it puts her ahead of her sisters because she at least tried to better herself. Hell, she is the best educated of all her siblings. It may not be much but it’s better than nothing. She actually has something to put on a resume.

 

I’d like to point out that Jinger was the sister known to enjoy handing out those Jesus tract things before she was married. It could be she just liked getting out of the house for a while or she liked getting to meet new people or that they got coffee afterwards from a place she loved... but still. 

(I have little to no experience with people doing this because New England, but it always leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I hear about it. That could be a completely unfair judgement though, so I hope that people forgive my ignorance if it is.)

15 minutes ago, TeaELSee said:

They live in a misogynistic society and we’re not given the opportunity to do or be anything else. Being a Mom or housewife by choice is not a fair comparison.

Yep. I was a stay at home wife for a year and now I’m a stay at home mom. That was a choice my husband and I made and worked towards together as a team, not something that was forced on me or something I was taught would be my only/main role in life. I don’t think it’s misogynistic to point out that these young women have (thus far) not really publicly deviated from the expectations of their patriarchal culture and upbringing.

(The only one who has come even remotely close so far is Jill, who continued her Midwife studies and attended births after her marriage and after Izzy was born. Even that wasn’t really deviating though since this seemed to be an “approved” field where she worked and studied with those who had similar enough beliefs to be passable. Same with the Bates daughters who have worked prior to and after marriage.)

I don’t think it’s wrong for these young women to remain at home. I feel like they almost deserve a break after all the crap they had to deal with at the TTH. I just wish it was an actual choice rather than an expectation or demand. 

[CarrotCake]

To me they just seem lost being at home. As I said, the episode where Jinger is trying to do the laundry looked so sad, like she had no idea what to do with her time but wait for Jeremy to come home. I get the same feeling from  Jill being so clingy. With Jessa I see less of this since she seems to always go to the TTH or goes out with friends.

This is also what I see more from SAHW’s around me: it is not sad if they look like they have a life outside the walls of their home. 

Good example are also the Bates girls, who seem to go around and do stuff without their husbands when they are at work.

 

[Palimpsest]

3 hours ago, FundieCentral said:

And I know there’s more to being a pastor, but I just honestly don’t get the impression that either one of them is taking their church all that seriously. Maybe that’s an unfair judgment; it’s just that none of the pastors I know have been able afford traveling this much (they’d take a pay cut and invest in church things), buy a house within a year of starting the job, have two nice cars, spend a visibly large amount of time arranging pictures for social media, or writing manifestos. They would mostly be busy with church-related activities of various kinds, like sermons, bible studies, kids’ clubs, church renovations, pre-wedding counseling, other counseling, and other things like that. I don’t know. Basically the hand-crafted social media makes me think that either 1) they prefer the lifestyle of being a pastor for now but in the long-term see themselves pursuing a career as a “Christian celebrity” couple as opposed to being lifelong pastors of this church or 2) it’s possibly more difficult/strenuous than it sounds so they’re using these trips and social media to get a break. 

This.  All of this.  

The thing is that Jeremy gets way too much credit here for being a "pastor."   Also assumptions about Jinger's activities are made based on what a pastor's wife might do in a large mainstream church (or a rabbi's wife might do in an average temple). 

The facts:  Anyone can hang out a shingle claiming to be a pastor.  Jeremy is a church planter for a nondenominational (as in unregulated) larger church in San Antonio..  And he's is only just getting some sort of online seminary qualification to give himself some sort of credibility.  He is self-directed to a large account and works only as hard as he wants.  And that may not be much.  He does seem to take a lot of Sundays off to travel and also seems to be gone during the week frequently too.

Grace Community Church, Laredo, from the webpage and the activities on Facebook, is a congregation of around 5 families, including the Vuolos.  It comprises perhaps 25 people at most, including children, and may be a couple of singles.  All their photos show a mere sprinkling of congregants.  Jeremy may well be preaching to Jinger with the camera and an otherwise empty room on Sundays.

They talk up by claiming the church is: 

Quote

We are passionate about missions, committed to biblical exegetical expository teaching, and we conduct weekly prayer meetings throughout the week along with evangelistic outreaches to the community. 

Yeah, Sundays and they claim to have a Wednesday evening Bible study.  Unless Jeremy has other plans.

Quote

Tiempos de Servicio

Sunday / domingo:
10am Bible Study (Estudio Bíblico)
11am Main Worship (Servicio de Adoración)

Wednesday / miércoles:
6pm Prayer Meeting (Junta de Oración en Español)

Friday / viernes:
6pm Revival Prayer (oración para el renaciemiento de la iglesia)

WEEKLY EVENTS:
Our weekly calendar for Bible studies and events can vary. Give us a call to find out what else may be going on this week!

 

Or not.

The church website is rarely updated - the last blog entry is in 2016.  It is a means to publicise Jeremy's sermons and that is all.  Facebook is the same.  It does post a sermon every week - but the main speaker is not always Pastor Vuolo.  People ask where he is.  

They also claim to minister to children of incarcerated people, visit nursing facilities, and do outreach on college campuses.   In other words they may have done all of the above once.  Or twice.  

The church does not seem to be growing.

Its big "ministry" is to run a pregnancy crisis counselling center.  This predates Jeremy.  Office hours - open on Tuesdays 9:00 am - 3:00 pm (not counting a 2 hour lunch break.)

Jinger may volunteer there, but she isn't qualified to do more than hand out free pregnancy tests and berate people for considering abortion.  Given the fact that they claim to do court ordered counseling, she is not qualified to run the center.  They have a fancy list of services they provide, but Rufus help any woman that falls into their clutches if Jinger is giving post abortion counselling and parenting classes.  I am especially annoyed that they claim to have an Abuse Counseling 24 Hour Hotline.  That could delay an abused woman getting real help by calling the Vuolos instead of a real hotline.   http://www.gracepregnancycenterlaredo.com/ 

Really, Derrick (and Jill) may have worked harder during his year at Cross Church than Jeremy (and Jinger) work as the pastor (and pastor's wife) of Grace Community church.  He does not seem very interested in his congregation and may well be considering moving on to bigger things.

[CarrotCake]

@Palimpsest that's interesting to read! I knew the church was not very big but I did not realize it was this small. How can they still pay enough money to Jeremy to pay for his family?

Of course they also have some money from the show (which might explain their nice house) but any other person in his job would need to make a living from it.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

I remember from earlier episodes that all Jinger did when they were living in the apartment was trying to do the laundry and wait for Jeremy to come home. Nothing close to a job, they did not even show a hobby she would devote her time to.

I agree that Jinger is not doing anything more than Jill, actually less because she does not need to homeschool yet. I am wondering if they will let Felicity go to school, I think they will. I do hope that by that time Jinger will do something for the church because now her life is just empty. Like Jill's.

I will never understand the POV that their lives are empty because they are SAHMswothout jobs or hobbies.

I was a SAHM and my life was far from empty as I was raising my kids and taking care of my family.

I hate that fundy girls have no other options, as that isn’t for everyone.  But choosing to stay home and raise ones kids is hardly an empty life even if it’s not a choice you’d personally make.

[CarrotCake]

6 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I will never understand the POV that their lives are empty because they are SAHMswothout jobs or hobbies.

I was a SAHM and my life was far from empty as I was raising my kids and taking care of my family.

I hate that fundy girls have no other options, as that isn’t for everyone.  But choosing to stay home and raise ones kids is hardly an empty life even if it’s not a choice you’d personally make.

If you see my later remarks, I clarified this by saying that I meant that it is not the fact that they are SAHW's that makes their life empty, it is the fact that it seems like they have not life outside of their family and home. This in comparison to someone like Jessa or some of the Bates girls who seem to go out more without their husband (with friends or just alone with their kids) and seem to thrive more than Jinger and Jill. That is why I call their life empty, not because they lack a job.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, CarrotCake said:

If you see my later remarks, I clarified this by saying that I meant that it is not the fact that they are SAHW's that makes their life empty, it is the fact that it seems like they have not life outside of their family and home. This in comparison to someone like Jessa or some of the Bates girls who seem to go out more without their husband (with friends or just alone with their kids) and seem to thrive more than Jinger and Jill. That is why I call their life empty, not because they lack a job.

and again not everyone needs that to have a full life.