Britain and Brexit business

[laPapessaGiovanna]

My new heroes (whoever pisses off Farage can become my hero) 

I highly recommend to read the whole thread and vote the best one. More about them in this Guardian article.

[Ozlsn]

Does a new UK PM mean a new Brexit plan?

(Seriously I feel like it's bizarro-world. Boris. Good Lord.)

"One influential EU figure put it to me that there were currently two schools of thought in the EU when it comes to Boris Johnson:

Number 1: Those who believe that, once in office, he will water down his rhetoric. These EU optimists believe that, as a chief architect of Brexit, Mr Johnson is best placed to sell a compromise deal to parliament. They also hope, after so much time longing to be prime minister, that Boris Johnson ultimately won't want to risk his fledging premiership by going for a no-deal Brexit this autumn.

School of Thought Number 2: Those who predict "Varoufakis the sequel". These EU pessimists predict "lots of pointless meetings" with Prime Minister Johnson - as they believe was the case with Greece's controversial finance minister at the height of the Greek debt crisis. They think the result will be a no-deal Brexit."

Personally I think option 2 is most likely, but at least something will be happening, right?

[fraurosena]

1 hour ago, Ozlsn said:

Does a new UK PM mean a new Brexit plan?

(Seriously I feel like it's bizarro-world. Boris. Good Lord.)

"One influential EU figure put it to me that there were currently two schools of thought in the EU when it comes to Boris Johnson:

Number 1: Those who believe that, once in office, he will water down his rhetoric. These EU optimists believe that, as a chief architect of Brexit, Mr Johnson is best placed to sell a compromise deal to parliament. They also hope, after so much time longing to be prime minister, that Boris Johnson ultimately won't want to risk his fledging premiership by going for a no-deal Brexit this autumn.

School of Thought Number 2: Those who predict "Varoufakis the sequel". These EU pessimists predict "lots of pointless meetings" with Prime Minister Johnson - as they believe was the case with Greece's controversial finance minister at the height of the Greek debt crisis. They think the result will be a no-deal Brexit."

Personally I think option 2 is most likely, but at least something will be happening, right?

I agree with you on the no deal brexit. Boris does not have a secret plan up his sleeve that he will conjure up in the coming weeks that will suddenly have the EU and the UK having agreeing with each other. There will not be a happy brexit. There simply isn't any way that is possible.

We can now sit back and wait for the UK to fall apart. Who will be first to leave? Scotland, or Northern Ireland? And Wales is on the fence too, I hear. It wouldn't be surprising if Scotland and Northern Ireland declare independence, that Wales will follow soon after. It's in their best economic interests to do so. 

 

[Smash!]

3 hours ago, fraurosena said:

We can now sit back and wait for the UK to fall apart. Who will be first to leave? Scotland, or Northern Ireland? And Wales is on the fence too, I hear. It wouldn't be surprising if Scotland and Northern Ireland declare independence, that Wales will follow soon after. It's in their best economic interests to do so. 

 

I guess we can now watch not only the US but the EU fall apart. Who will leave next? Well played Putin, well played. And your buddy Johnson is now PM. I'm scared for the EU and Europe. What a world we live in.

[Ozlsn]

12 hours ago, fraurosena said:

I agree with you on the no deal brexit. Boris does not have a secret plan up his sleeve that he will conjure up in the coming weeks that will suddenly have the EU and the UK having agreeing with each other. There will not be a happy brexit. There simply isn't any way that is possible.

Well he's just announced they'll be out by the end of October. So I'm guessing a hard NI border then? Or was there agreement on that?

[fraurosena]

6 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

Well he's just announced they'll be out by the end of October. So I'm guessing a hard NI border then? Or was there agreement on that?

No, there is none, as far as I can tell. It looks like a no deal brexit, with hard borders. Apart from being awful in an economic sense, it is absolutely terrible politically and could well see the troubles flaring up again.

16 hours ago, Smash! said:

I guess we can now watch not only the US but the EU fall apart. Who will leave next? Well played Putin, well played. And your buddy Johnson is now PM. I'm scared for the EU and Europe. What a world we live in.

I’m not as pessimistic as you are in that regard. The UK leaving the EU will be disastrous for the UK and could quite possibly mean it will fall apart. But although it will certainly have economic repercussions for the EU, brexit will not cause it to fall apart. In fact, I believe brexit will serve as a deterrent for member states wanting to leave, as they will see that doing so will have unwanted and far-reaching consequences. That is not to say that right-wing anti-EU sentiments will disappear within the EU countries, and Putin won’t cease fanning those flames, but the UK example will scare a lot of people away from wanting to leave. Instead, I think it could be a catalyst for much needed changes in the EU, and that will lead to the EU being stronger. And then Putin may have shot himself in the foot with all his meddling. 

[fraurosena]

Boris Johnson is doing his utmost to reinforce his image as Britain's Donald Trump.

Johnson tells EU: ditch backstop or face no-deal Brexit

Quote

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson cautioned the European Union on Saturday that the “anti-democratic” Irish backstop must be ditched if they were to strike a Brexit divorce deal.

Johnson, since taking office on Wednesday, has repeatedly said that if the EU continues to refuse to renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement agreed by his predecessor Theresa May, then he will take Britain out on Oct. 31 without a deal.

His biggest demand is that the most hotly-contested element of the Brexit divorce agreement, the Irish border backstop, be struck out of the Withdrawal Agreement, a demand that has angered Ireland and perturbed other EU capitals.

“If we get rid of the backstop, whole and entire, then we are making a lot of progress,” Johnson said, when asked if it was only the Irish border backstop that he wanted changed.

Speaking before a Stephenson’s Rocket, a 19th century steam locomotive, in the northern England city of Manchester, Johnson dedicated most of his speech to improving public services, transport and the internet and driving up economic growth.

“Our post-industrial towns have a proud, great heritage but an even greater future. Their best years lie ahead of them,” he said, announcing new long-term rail links and promising immediate improvements to bus services.

That message, aimed at what Johnson called “left behind” towns, is seen as the early stages of an election campaign, even though Britain is not due a parliamentary election until 2022 and Johnson is adamant he will not hold one before Brexit.

His Conservative Party does not have a majority in parliament, is divided over how to deliver Brexit and under threat of a no-confidence vote when parliament returns in September.

European leaders are prepared to talk with Britain’s new leader over Brexit but have so far insisted they will not reopen the Withdrawal Agreement. Many EU diplomats think the United Kingdom will hold a snap election soon.

Johnson, who discussed Brexit with U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday, brushed aside those concerns.

“My friends, I do not want a no-deal Brexit, that is not where we’re aiming, but we have to face the fact that at the moment we’re being told, as we have been told for the last three year ‘rien ne va plus’ - ‘the deal is fixed’ - and can’t be changed. I doubt that,” he said.

Nevertheless, investors fear a no-deal exit would send shock waves through global markets and hurt the world’s economy.

Ireland is crucial to any Brexit solution.

The backstop is an insurance policy designed to prevent the return of border controls along the 500-km (300-mile) land border between Ireland and Britain’s province of Northern Ireland that were ended by the 1998 Good Friday peace agreement.

Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar said the question of the unification of Ireland and Northern Ireland would inevitably arise if Britain leaves the EU without a divorce deal on Oct. 31.

“The approach of the UK government is not going to be disengaged or aloof or waiting for them to come to us: we are going to try to solve this problem and we are going to do it in a spirit of friendship and cooperation,” Johnson said.

“But we can’t do it as long as that anti-democratic backstop, that backstop that seeks to divide our country, divide the UK, remains in place,” he said. “We need to get it out and then we can make progress, I think.”

The Withdrawal Agreement that May struck in November with the EU says the United Kingdom will remain in a customs union “unless and until” alternative arrangements are found to avoid a hard border.

Many British lawmakers oppose the prospect of being bound to EU rules and customs duties that would prevent Britain doing its own trade deals and leave it overseen by EU judges.

Cutting off his nose to spite his face.

[Ozlsn]

So he wants a hard NI border? I find the aims of this mob utterly confusing. 

[Gobsmacked]

Edinburgh welcomed Boris the Bozo wonderfully today with loud harmonious Boos. I feel so sorry for our wonderful First Minister Nicola Sturgeon having to sit and talk with the obnoxious fascist dangerous bafoon. 

Off to drink wine...

[unsafetydancer]

Thoughts on all the latest shenanigans: (apologies for swearing, as mentioned below am pretty raging)

 

We all knew Boris would win, I think that a lot of wealthy people have spent years promoting him as being this charming sort of buffoon who is harmless when actually he's as dangerous as Trump is. They took advantage of the fact that people here feel like their vote doesn't matter because the UK's political system is seriously outdated and doesn't represent the majority of people. (Voters in marginal constituencies have far more influence than voters in safe seats who often feel like they might as well not bother. Scotland's votes count for bugger all, as do Wales's and NI currently doesn't even have a government so are dealing with their own issues). He's been appearing on "topical comedy" shows like Have I Got News For You for years now and the news has been presenting him as a loveable eccentric. It's like the episode of Black Mirror where a cartoon character is voted Prime Minister after a political joke goes too far. People were daft enough to believe that he was harmless and a small minority are actually in agreement with his malevolent views so are wholly behind him.

Theresa May was only ever destined to be useless. There was a clip aired in the first few days after the initial vote of the faces of the Leave campaign leaders after they realised they had won, basically, they all looked like they were thinking "well, shit, we didn't actually want to win." A lot of them (potentially Boris included) didn't, they wanted to lose by a smallish margin so that they could continue moaning and dictating the agenda with anti-EU and anti-immigration speeches without there being any expectation that they deliver on any of it. The smarter ones know that they promised the impossible and will now be at risk of being held accountable once people realise this. May was a useful, power-hungry moron who took a job no one wanted anymore. They set her up to fail.

We now have a racist, sexist, arrogant arsehole in power who is smarter than he pretends he is and has a very definite agenda. He has filled his cabinet with fraudsters (Priti Patel), misogynists (Nadine Dorries), union bashers (Jacob Rees-Mogg, a man aptly described once as a "haunted pencil") and complete incompetents (Dominic Raab, a former trade secretary who famously had not realised that you required a ferry to take goods to and from France). Whether this is some grand design to take the country back to Georgian social norms, where the poor have no rights and the rich live large, or he's just a shiftless bastard out to help his chums line their pockets remains to be seen. What is certain is that these people are collectively against employment rights, women's rights, LGBT rights, BAME rights, and basically rights for anyone except themselves.

You have Priti Patel calling British workers "idlers" while she never does a day's work except go on a wee holiday to Israel that breaks the official secrets act. You also have Rees-Mogg who gives teary-eyed anti-abortion speeches while profiting from a company that produces and sells abortion pills. You have wee twats like Ross Thompson, an MP who sexually assaulted another man in parliament's own private bar, snivelling around trying to get whatever tiny scraps of power might be thrown to them. You have actual, card-carrying violent bastards like Mark "grab her by the throat" Field. These are the people who will be in charge of writing new laws post Brexit. You can bet they won't be kind.

Meanwhile, the opposition has Jeremy Corbyn staggering around like a deer in the headlights. He's completely directionless and has lost control of his party as they descend into bickering and infighting. He has completely failed to deal with the issue of antisemitism in his party and has allowed it to become a stick to beat him with. He has failed to listen to the people who voted for him as their leader and has failed to learn from the mistake the Lib Dems made in 2010 where they didn't live up to their promises and betrayed the very people who got them into power. 

The Dems are trying their damndest to cling onto any shred of relevance and alienating the few voters they may have left. The media are refusing to give air time to the Greens, Plyds, SNP or anyone who isn't part of this insane soap opera because apparently drama is what sells newspapers. The DUP are still lurking in the background, rubbing their hands at the prospect of driving NI back into the dark ages and the "Brexit Party" are like a group of pensioners who got pissed in Majorca and started a fight with the locals; only some idiot has decided to hand them power and they're going to use it to stick it to "johnny foreigner". They have a vague idea that we can go back to some idealised WW2 where everyone will make do and mend and band together for the war effort, only there is no war and the suffering they inflict will be for no bloody good reason whatsoever.

Meanwhile, it's likely that we will run out of vital medications. Some areas are already beginning to report shortages of drugs used to treat everything from depression to diabetes. This is potentially down to private healthcare companies stockpiling some drugs so that they can sell them back to the NHS at an inflated cost once shortages hit. People might run out of food and 1 in 8 farmers in Scotland is worried they won't survive a no-deal Brexit. Trump is sniffing around trying to find a way to buy up huge swathes of our public assets so that he can sell them to us later on, including the dreaded chlorinated chicken. It's also possible our money will become worthless overnight.

There's also the huge rise in hate crime of all kinds. Assaults fuelled by racism have risen everywhere and there has been an alarming number of homophobic hate crimes in public places. No one will just bloody come out and admit that when you let an openly racist wankshaft into power then it also empowers every nasty wee bigot who has been biding their time until their shitty prejudice is acceptable in public again. Can yous tell I'm raging? I'm bloody raging!

Hopefully this time this will be the end of the British Empire, oops I meant United Kingdom. I genuinely can't see how anyone can make the argument that we are better off anchored to a government that allows open bigotry in its central debating chamber and is quite content to watch people suffer and die all for the sake of the rich arsebadgers at the top. Wales, you guys are welcome to come join us. The bad news is that it looks like the Westminster are already ramping up plans to fuck up Scotland, stuff like giving the Scotland Office (Now the UK government in Scotland) more scope and more funding so that it can undermine our parliament. I'm also pretty concerned that Boris seems to be spending an awful lot of money on campaigning and advertising when there isn't even an election planned.

I just hope people are smart enough this time, I really do. I've studied history and I know that shit like this leads to an awful lot of dead people and some nincompoops sitting around complaining that they had literally no idea their neighbours were being murdered. Hopefully, people see sense but for pretty much my whole adult life they have not and have been sleepwalking into even bigger problems. I just feel like shaking people and yelling in their faces. 

[Ozlsn]

1 hour ago, unsafetydancer said:

A lot of them (potentially Boris included) didn't, they wanted to lose by a smallish margin so that they could continue moaning and dictating the agenda with anti-EU and anti-immigration speeches without there being any expectation that they deliver on any of it.

Yep. I have been having a (so far) very polite argument on FB about whether this government can deliver anything like what they promised. (Me: no. Him: oh it's not as bad as they're making out. Me: provides about 30 analytical articles saying it is.) I am also laughing out loud at the calls by the UK for a European maritime mission to Iran - um really Boris? Have you not yet realised you're about to be irrelevant as far as things like this with the EU go? 

[fraurosena]

If you haven't seen The Great Hack yet, you really should.

The question is though, what will happen with this knowledge. Will people be outraged, but then have nothing happen about it? Or will somebody finally actually do something? Like, oh, I don't know, declare the results of that referendum null and void, and stop this brexit nonsense once and for all? Somehow, I don't think so... 

[Gobsmacked]

I officially love you Unsafetydancer. 

[unsafetydancer]

6 hours ago, Gobsmacked said:

I officially love you Unsafetydancer. 

Thanks lol. Really at this point am just venting my rage because I feel like in the real world no one cares ?

 

7 hours ago, fraurosena said:

The question is though, what will happen with this knowledge. Will people be outraged, but then have nothing happen about it? Or will somebody finally actually do something? Like, oh, I don't know, declare the results of that referendum null and void, and stop this brexit nonsense once and for all? Somehow, I don't think so... 

This is what concerns me. From what I understand of it, if the vote had been a legally binding one then the high court could have taken steps to make sure it was declared void. Since it was declared an "advisory poll" then this is not considered possible under our current laws. I think a lot of this comes back to us not having an official constitution in the UK; our parliament seems to run on a series of agreements and protocols which are often outdated and open to abuse.

It's a bit like when the Panama Papers came out. Everyone was really angry about tax evasion but they couldn't see a way to stop it because it's been so entrenched into our political system. Because no one could see a way to handle it then people began to lose interest and move on to whatever the next issue was. It also doesn't help that our biggest news organisations are run by the people who want to evade tax and erode everyone else's rights but their own. 

I hope that this time something will be done. We're in no sense a democracy if our system of representation is open to side large scale abuse from outside influences. I would argue that we should also limit the size of some news organisations, Rupert Murdoch owns far too much of our media as do others like him.

[fraurosena]

1 hour ago, unsafetydancer said:

We're in no sense a democracy if our system of representation is open to side large scale abuse from outside influences

This.

When I was younger I used to be in favor of a two party system, which, unlike our own multi-party system, seemed so much easier. You only had a choice of two. I used to think our system was too complicated, and because there are so very many parties, that nobody could really get things done. 

But I was so wrong. The very fact that there are so many parties, forces them to sit at the table and make compromises if they want to get anything done. That can mean that some promises made can't be kept (in their entirety), but at least everybody gets their say. It's more of a give and take and in the end so much more fair and, let's be honest, democratic. It's even a good thing that there are a lot of little parties besides the four larger ones, because all parties get to have their say during debates, and with good arguments, small parties can still get things they deem important done. At the very least, their voices are heard, and can even be used to sway public opinion. Any party can introduce bills on any subject, and if they can persuade other parties to join them, they can even get bills passed. 

Does this mean that there can't be outside influences? Nope, sadly not. A party could always be corrupted or moved  to act in a certain way by bad actors. But because that party is only one of many, the potential damages are limited. And public opinion matters a lot and influences parties greatly, certainly if a party wants to hold on to or increase their number of seats.

Our system is complicated, and far from flawless, but it's so much more democratic that the British or American systems, that's for sure.

Edited July 30, 2019 by fraurosena
word order matters

[unsafetydancer]

@fraurosena I think that this is the theory for how our parliament is SUPPOSED to work. First past the post has left us with a de facto two-party system, the closest anyone has come to breaking this within my lifetime was the Lib Dems in 2010 and we all know how that turned out. The fact is that the two biggest parties in the UK have huge amounts of money and support from the press that the others do not have access to. The Scottish Parliament is a little different with a form of proportional representation but the major news outlets were still treating the SNP and Scottish Greens as a joke up until 2014 when it briefly looked like independence might be a thing. 

Of course, as a Green, it depresses me no end that we are still treated as a joke but that could fill a whole thread on its own.

[fraurosena]

@unsafetydancer, I think the biggest problem the UK has is its 'tiered' election system, which can render one's vote utterly useless if the party of your choice loses in your district, as the winner of a district gets all the seats. (Correct me if I'm wrong though, I'm working from long time ago memory). If one's vote went directly to parliament, no matter the district you are in, then every vote would count, and I think the two party rule would end rather quickly.

As a fellow Green (I am for the party for animals in my country) I can relate to your feelings. Luckily over here they have some say even though they are a small party. But in my social contacts, my opinions oftentimes lead to derision -- especially as I'm a vegan and a staunch proponent of sustainability and acting on climate change. Sigh. Things are getting better though. Regarding veganism, sustainability and climate change, I'm hoping society will eventually develop in the same way it did to smoking. 

But back to topic. Boris Johnson got an earful from Varadkar today.

Irish PM Leo Varadkar rebuffs Boris Johnson over Brexit plan

Quote

Leo Varadkar, Irish prime minister, has warned Boris Johnson that he is heading for a Brexit dead end, insisting in a tense phone call that the EU will not meet his central demands for a renegotiated exit deal.

In a long-awaited phone conversation between the leaders, Mr Varadkar pulled no punches, telling Mr Johnson that the EU would stand by Dublin in its efforts to avoid a hard border in Ireland and would not unstitch the exit deal.

Mr Johnson had not spoken to Mr Varadkar since his arrival in Downing Street last Wednesday, in a sign of the tensions that have arisen over the new British prime minister’s hard Brexit stance.

Mr Johnson, who is expected to visit Northern Ireland this week, wants to “abolish” the backstop provision in the EU withdrawal treaty, an insurance against a return to a physical north-south border. He hopes that the EU will eventually relent and remove the backstop, which would see Britain stay in a “temporary” customs union until new provisions were in place to avoid the need for a hard border. But Mr Varadkar attempted to quash the idea that Dublin might be put under pressure by the other EU member states to drop its commitment to the backstop to avoid the risk of a no-deal exit.

“The Taoiseach explained that the EU was united in its view that the withdrawal agreement could not be reopened,” Mr Varadkar’s office said after the call. Mr Varadkar also felt the need to remind Mr Johnson, whose government relies on the support of the Democratic Unionist party for its survival, of the requirement under the Good Friday Agreement to act as an honest broker in Northern Ireland. His office recalled how the agreement required Britain “to exercise power with rigorous impartiality”, respecting “rights, equality, parity of esteem and just and equal treatment for the identity, ethos and aspirations of both communities”.

Mr Johnson, meanwhile, told Mr Varadkar that he would work with “determination and energy and in a spirit of friendship” to seek a Brexit deal.

The call was described by British officials as “friendly in tone but the substance was fairly uncompromising”.

The new Conservative party leader, who was booed on a visit to Edinburgh on Monday and was set to face anxious Welsh hill farmers on Tuesday, has started to sound more positive about seeking a Brexit deal during his tour of the UK. He also discussed with Mr Varadkar the need to restore the power sharing executive at Stormont “as quickly as possible”. Unless Stormont is reconvened, Mr Johnson may have to reintroduce direct rule from Westminster.

In a readout of the call with Mr Varadkar, Downing Street said: “On Brexit, the prime minister made clear that the UK will be leaving the EU on October 31, no matter what. “He said that in all scenarios, the government will be steadfast in its commitment to the Belfast [Good Friday] Agreement and will never put physical checks or physical infrastructure on the border.”

Meanwhile, Mr Johnson headed to a Welsh farm on Tuesday to praise farming’s “amazing” contribution to the economy and promise a “better deal” for the sector outside the Common Agricultural Policy. But Helen Roberts, from the National Sheep Association in Wales, warned that a no-deal Brexit would lead to tariffs of more than 40 per cent on lamb exports — and even cause civil unrest in the countryside.

“Whether Mr Johnson at the moment is just playing this sort of game hoping that it is a tactic to get Europe to renegotiate with us . . . he needs to not play Russian roulette with the agriculture industry,” she told the BBC. “I suspect there will be protests.”

The NFU repeated its warning that a 40 per cent tariff on lamb exports would lead to a mass slaughter of sheep — an idea that the government had sought to play down. Alun Cairns, Welsh secretary, claimed that farmers could seek new markets in countries such as Japan. But Meat Promotion Wales, an industry group, said the impact of no deal would be “off the Richter scale”.

As a vegan, I can't say I want the meat industry to survive. But forcing it through Brexit is not the way. And worst of all, the massive slaughter of sheep due to 40% tariffs is absolutely abhorrent.

[Ozlsn]

5 hours ago, unsafetydancer said:

I would argue that we should also limit the size of some news organisations, Rupert Murdoch owns far too much of our media as do others like him.

No argument about that here. We have a real issue with lack of media diversity here - in some areas the only newspapers are both Murdoch owned. The same people that are in government pushing for deregulation are the people also defunding the ABC which at least does provide an alternative news source (one that criticises the government - of all stripes - which is partly why there is pressure to get rid of it. Can't have criticism!)

We have a de facto two party system but with a mix of preferential voting for candidates (local MPs) and parties (the Senate) which does mean we get a slightly broader range of people in. Unfortunately it does also mean we get people like Fraser Anning, and the far right as well as the Greens and other more left wing parties.

[unsafetydancer]

@Ozlsn are you in Australia?

Over here the BBC has long since decided that it will just support whoever will allow them to increase the license fee. (usually Tories) From what I gather ABC is much better and is still at least mostly impartial. How is it funded? Do people have to pay a set amount to watch TV or is it taken from taxes?

[Ozlsn]

"Mr Johnson, meanwhile, told Mr Varadkar that he would work with “determination and energy and in a spirit of friendship” to seek a Brexit deal."

Oh so now you've realised that having a deal might be a good idea and you might actually have to do something?

Part of me wants these muppets to fail dismally and hard, most doesn't because of the amount of suffering that would cause. I could live with the EU member states deciding to increase the tax on non-EU property owners for starters though. And perhaps restricting property sales. I mean... don't want those foreigners coming in and buying up all the land, right? 

4 minutes ago, unsafetydancer said:

@Ozlsn are you in Australia?

Over here the BBC has long since decided that it will just support whoever will allow them to increase the license fee. (usually Tories) From what I gather ABC is much better and is still at least mostly impartial. How is it funded? Do people have to pay a set amount to watch TV or is it taken from taxes?

Yes, Australia. It's funded via taxes, no licence fees - on the one hand that makes it simpler, on the other it makes it vulnerable to the government of the day. Given we currently have a government who is determined to keep people in as much poverty as possible despite groups as diverse as the Business Council of Australia and the Australian Council of Churches saying that the dole needs to be raised as it is unliveable. This weeks quote was that the PM would not give in to "unfunded empathy". Frankly I think he could have left the "unfunded" part off and it would have been accurate. Oh and the PM's a fully Born Again Hillsong "Christian" - obviously following the Christ who advocated lowering taxes for the rich, screwing over the poor and incarcerating refugees indefinitely. Not the Jesus of Nazareth one.

[unsafetydancer]

21 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

Oh and the PM's a fully Born Again Hillsong "Christian" - obviously following the Christ who advocated lowering taxes for the rich, screwing over the poor and incarcerating refugees indefinitely. Not the Jesus of Nazareth one.

Yikes, aren't Hillsong the creepy Aussie megachurch?

[Ozlsn]

3 hours ago, unsafetydancer said:

Yikes, aren't Hillsong the creepy Aussie megachurch?

Yes, that would be them. The untaxed multi-million dollar megachurch whose pastors drive late model cars and who are associated with conversion "therapy". They annoy me.

[fraurosena]

Boris Johnson really, really, really wants a Brexit.

No matter the consequences.

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

I feel like this sums it up

And then will proceed to bluff hard on no deal Brexit thinking that EU countries frightened will cave and give him all he wants (once he actually knows what he wants). And when EU countries will tell him (again) that's the May deal or no deal he will cry the big evil EU is destroying the British Empire er I mean the UK.

[Glasgowghirl]

Boris Johnson is going to be the Worst PM in my lifetime and for the first 3 years of my life Thatcher was in charge. Boris is a national embarrassment and he is danger of breaking up the UK. He came to Scotland and ended up leaving the First Minister’s house out the back door to get away from the booing that he encountered entering, even the Scottish Conservative leader, Ruth Davidson is highly critical of him. Boris is also deeply unpopular in Wales, Northern Ireland and a huge chunk of England. He appointed to his cabinet Priti Patel, Theresa May sacked her for holding secret talks with Israel that were not sanctioned by the Government and she said that in the event of a no deal Brexit if we threaten the Irish with starvation they will back down over the Irish Border, given the British History in Ireland and the impact it still has, that was never going to go down well. The rest of his cabinet are not any better.