Gun Violence Part 2: Thoughts and Prayers STILL Don't Work

[fraurosena]

Looks like these repugliklans have some values after all. None of them are willing to lie to the public on a Sunday.

 

[mstee]

I’m 20 minutes from Dayton. My husband is waiting to hear if anyone he knows from the University of Dayton got killed. It’s all just too much. I look at my baby and don’t even want to take her anywhere anymore. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by mstee

[fraurosena]

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by fraurosena
merged posts

[fraurosena]

Heartbreaking. ?

El Paso shooting: Some victims too scared to seek medical help for ‘fear over immigration status’

Quote

Some of the victims of the El Paso Walmart mass shooting avoided seeking medical treatment because they were worried about their immigration status, it is feared.

Three weeks ago, Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials carried out mass raids on the homes of migrants in a crackdown by Donald Trump on those in the country without documentation.

Juliette Kayyem, formerly of the Homeland Security Department, told CNN: “This is a concern. It’s clear that there are people not unifying with their family and that there are people who are worried or injured that did not go to hospitals likely because of their immigration status. That’s something El Paso should probably get ahead on.”

Authorities say they are investigating the massacre at the Texas border city supermarket as a race-hate crime. Three Mexicans were among the 20 dead.

Border Patrol officials have tried to assure people that no enforcement operations will be carried out at hospitals, the family reunification centre or shelters. Many people said they were sceptical of Border Patrol’s assurances, accusing officials of “inhumanity”. 

“I keep thinking about the undocu folk in El Paso that didn’t seek medical assistance due to their immigration status,” one posted.

“Fear of going to the hospital because you run the chance of being permanently separated from your family shouldn’t have to be anyone’s reality.”

Kevin McAleenan, acting secretary at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), tweeted: “El Paso is a home to many DHS law enforcement agents and officers. We join them in support for their families and communities at large.”

Greg Allen, El Paso police chief, said authorities were now working to confirm whether a racist, anti-immigrant manifesto posted online shortly before the shootings was written by the suspect.

Patrick Crusius, 21, is said to have driven more than 1,000km from his home in Dallas to commit the atrocity.

Tens of thousands of central American migrant families cross the border each month, many claiming asylum. The numbers have increased despite Mr Trump’s hardline immigration policies.

[precious blessing]

I just barely woke up and my mind immediately went to the El Paso and Gilroy shootings, I rather cynically thought "I bet there's another mass shooting today," and of course I'm shocked and numb to find, yeah, another 9 people are dead for no reason. 

I haven't experienced this before - the numbness immediately upon hearing of the Dayton shootings. It's not a good feeling. I'm a politics junkie, but right now I can't stand to hear anymore democratic presidential candidates discuss this bullshit. Like I so recently said... what else is left to say at this point? I just (probably incorrectly) feel like it's disservice to the dead to bitch about gun reform right now when we don't even have a week - a day to absorb the magnitude of these tragedies.

I guess I feel that even politicians should be rather speechless right now. I've never felt this way about shootings before - I'd immediately jump to "we need gun reform" sentiment. But scarier to me is the obvious undertone to so many of these shootings - white nationalism. That doesn't come with an "easy" fix, it's much more insidious and I feel that even if we get gun reform, these terrorists will find a way.

 /end rambling rant

[thoughtful]

https://www.10tv.com/article/report-24-year-old-identified-suspect-deadly-dayton-shooting-2019-aug

A bit more, including Betts' picture.

[fraurosena]

More details on Ohio's attack.

Ohio shooting: Sister of gunman among Dayton dead

Quote

The sister of the gunman is among nine people killed in the attack in Dayton, Ohio, police said on Sunday.

Megan Betts, 22, was confirmed as being among the dead at a news conference at which the victims were named. At least 27 people were injured in the shooting, the second in the US within 24 hours. At least 20 others were killed in El Paso, Texas, hours before.

Police confirmed they killed the Dayton gunman at the scene within a minute of him opening fire.

Officials said they were still investigating possible motives, but said all the deceased were killed in the same area. "It's hard to imagine that there was much discrimination in the shooting... it happened in a very short period of time."

The Gun Violence Archive, which categorises mass shootings as four or more people shot or killed, says there have been 251 so far this year.

What happened in Dayton?

The shooting began at 01:07 local time (05:07 GMT) in the Oregon district of the city centre.

The local mayor said the gunman wore body armour and came carrying extra ammunition for his .223-calibre assault rifle with high-capacity magazines. Police said all the fatalities happened outside in the street. Assistant Police Chief Matt Carper told reporters that officers managed to take down the gunman.

"Our people are very well trained for a situation like this," he said, adding it was "very fortunate that the officers were in close proximity".

Nan Whaley told reporters she was "amazed" by the quick response of the officers which she said prevented further deaths, but also stressed it would be a "very, very difficult time" for families of victims. "As a mayor, this is a day that we all dread happening," she said. "What's very sad is I've got messages from mayors across the country - it's sad that we've all gone through it."

Footage posted on social media showed people running as dozens of gunshots echoed through the streets.

It is thought the shooting took place outside Ned Peppers Bar on E 5th Street. The bar later posted on social media its staff were safe. Jae Williams told the BBC he was at a nearby rap performance when people were told to evacuate. "I was very shocked," he said. "We all evacuated quickly and safely. We were told to avoid the Oregon district. I got to my car, I could see cops, multiple ambulances."

Another eyewitness told Reuters they had been in a nearby nightclub, Newcom's, when the shooting happened. "The screams, the cruisers, the chaos... the security guards and themselves were running around and telling people to get out and just how everybody was acting, you knew something was wrong," she said. "And then when you came outside, as soon as you hit the front street, you've seen the bodies, you knew this was different. You knew it was something that you never thought of experiencing, never experienced, wouldn't want anyone to experience."

Nearby hospitals had received 27 people and discharged 15 by 10:00 local time.

Who was the attacker?

Hours after he had been named by the media, police officials confirmed the shooter's identity as 24-year-old Connor Betts from Bellbrook, Ohio. Police searched his house earlier on Sunday.

Officials also listed the nine victims at a news conference, confirming to a reporter that 22-year-old Megan Betts was the gunman's sister. US media reported that she was found dead in a car with her boyfriend.

"We don't know the thoughts of the shooter," Mayor Whaley said earlier.

FBI agents are also assisting police with the investigation.

Who are the victims?

Police listed all nine dead. All their families had been notified, officials said. They are:

1. Lois Oglesby, black female, 27
    
2. Megan Betts, white female, 22
    
3. Saeed Saleh, black male, 38
    
4. Derrick Fudge, black male, 57
    
5. Logan Turner, white male, 30
    
6. Nicholas Cummer, white male, 25
    
7. Thomas McNichols, black male, 25
    
8. Beatrice Warren Curtice, black female, 36
    
9. Monica Brickhouse, black female, 39

A vigil for the victims will be held at 20:00 local time in the Oregon district where the attack happened, Mayor Whaley announced.

What's been the reaction?

At a series of news conferences, Mayor Whaley asked people to think of those people "who went downtown on a Saturday night and thought they'd be safe". She said that the Oregon district was "one of the safest places in the whole region". "Frankly, we're at a situation now in our country that these are so random," she said. She also said the city had gone through a "really tough year", drawing a comparison to a series of 14 tornadoes that hit Dayton in March. "What really goes through my mind is one seems completely preventable," she said. "I just question when is enough, enough."

She earlier tweeted that she was "heartbroken" after the shooting, and thanked first responders.

On Twitter, singer Lizzo called on people not to "normalise" shootings, saying that her family in Dayton were safe "but that's not the case for nine other families".

He killed 9 people in less than a minute. But hey, there's nothing wrong with the public having military assault weapons, right?

In America the life of a human being is worth less than the right to have weapons meant to kill human beings. 

[47of74]

More details on Ohio's attack.
Ohio shooting: Sister of gunman among Dayton dead

The sister of the gunman is among nine people killed in the attack in Dayton, Ohio, police said on Sunday.
Megan Betts, 22, was confirmed as being among the dead at a news conference at which the victims were named. At least 27 people were injured in the shooting, the second in the US within 24 hours. At least 20 others were killed in El Paso, Texas, hours before.
Police confirmed they killed the Dayton gunman at the scene within a minute of him opening fire.
Officials said they were still investigating possible motives, but said all the deceased were killed in the same area. "It's hard to imagine that there was much discrimination in the shooting... it happened in a very short period of time."
The Gun Violence Archive, which categorises mass shootings as four or more people shot or killed, says there have been 251 so far this year.
What happened in Dayton?
The shooting began at 01:07 local time (05:07 GMT) in the Oregon district of the city centre.
The local mayor said the gunman wore body armour and came carrying extra ammunition for his .223-calibre assault rifle with high-capacity magazines. Police said all the fatalities happened outside in the street. Assistant Police Chief Matt Carper told reporters that officers managed to take down the gunman.
"Our people are very well trained for a situation like this," he said, adding it was "very fortunate that the officers were in close proximity".
Nan Whaley told reporters she was "amazed" by the quick response of the officers which she said prevented further deaths, but also stressed it would be a "very, very difficult time" for families of victims. "As a mayor, this is a day that we all dread happening," she said. "What's very sad is I've got messages from mayors across the country - it's sad that we've all gone through it."
Footage posted on social media showed people running as dozens of gunshots echoed through the streets.
It is thought the shooting took place outside Ned Peppers Bar on E 5th Street. The bar later posted on social media its staff were safe. Jae Williams told the BBC he was at a nearby rap performance when people were told to evacuate. "I was very shocked," he said. "We all evacuated quickly and safely. We were told to avoid the Oregon district. I got to my car, I could see cops, multiple ambulances."
Another eyewitness told Reuters they had been in a nearby nightclub, Newcom's, when the shooting happened. "The screams, the cruisers, the chaos... the security guards and themselves were running around and telling people to get out and just how everybody was acting, you knew something was wrong," she said. "And then when you came outside, as soon as you hit the front street, you've seen the bodies, you knew this was different. You knew it was something that you never thought of experiencing, never experienced, wouldn't want anyone to experience."
Nearby hospitals had received 27 people and discharged 15 by 10:00 local time.
Who was the attacker?
Hours after he had been named by the media, police officials confirmed the shooter's identity as 24-year-old Connor Betts from Bellbrook, Ohio. Police searched his house earlier on Sunday.
Officials also listed the nine victims at a news conference, confirming to a reporter that 22-year-old Megan Betts was the gunman's sister. US media reported that she was found dead in a car with her boyfriend.
"We don't know the thoughts of the shooter," Mayor Whaley said earlier.
FBI agents are also assisting police with the investigation.
Who are the victims?
Police listed all nine dead. All their families had been notified, officials said. They are:

1. Lois Oglesby, black female, 27
    
2. Megan Betts, white female, 22
    
3. Saeed Saleh, black male, 38
    
4. Derrick Fudge, black male, 57
    
5. Logan Turner, white male, 30
    
6. Nicholas Cummer, white male, 25
    
7. Thomas McNichols, black male, 25
    
8. Beatrice Warren Curtice, black female, 36
    
9. Monica Brickhouse, black female, 39

A vigil for the victims will be held at 20:00 local time in the Oregon district where the attack happened, Mayor Whaley announced.
What's been the reaction?
At a series of news conferences, Mayor Whaley asked people to think of those people "who went downtown on a Saturday night and thought they'd be safe". She said that the Oregon district was "one of the safest places in the whole region". "Frankly, we're at a situation now in our country that these are so random," she said. She also said the city had gone through a "really tough year", drawing a comparison to a series of 14 tornadoes that hit Dayton in March. "What really goes through my mind is one seems completely preventable," she said. "I just question when is enough, enough."
She earlier tweeted that she was "heartbroken" after the shooting, and thanked first responders.
On Twitter, singer Lizzo called on people not to "normalise" shootings, saying that her family in Dayton were safe "but that's not the case for nine other families".

He killed 9 people in less than a minute. But hey, there's nothing wrong with the public having military assault weapons, right?
In America the life of a human being is worth less than the right to have weapons meant to kill human beings. 


Yeah no shit. The only thing these Reich to lifers give a flying fuck about are those not yet born. Certainly not enough to keep those already born from being mutilated by goddamn bullets.

[Audrey2]

8 minutes ago, 47of74 said:

In America the life of a human being is worth less than the right to have weapons meant to kill human beings. 


Yeah no shit. The only thing these Reich to lifers give a flying fuck about are those not yet born. Certainly not enough to keep those already born from being mutilated by goddamn bullets.

And, the same people screaming about ending Obamacare and who are completely against socialized medicine are the same ones talking about the shooters having mental health issues. One lovely person (sarcasm) even suggested antidepressants are causing the violence.

The cognitive dissonance makes my brain hurt.

This is what no NRA member, Trumpster, or Republican wants to admit:

[fraurosena]

More brain-hurting cognitive dissonance.

Antifa, in being against white supremacists, cause white supremacist terror attacks.  

 

[Becky]

What a terrible place we find ourselves!  I am so agitated today, I just don't know where to turn, what to do, who to talk to!  I can call and email my senators all damn day - they are already Democrats, and even if they weren't, what good would it do?  I don't have a superPAC or lobbyists representing me, I can't pony up enough money to counteract the NRA and other groups that are calling the shots here.  We could muster a million people marching on DC, and the people in charge would turn a blind eye.  

What the hell are we supposed to do?  I don't want my grandchildren growing up in a world like this!

[Smash!]

What a terrible place we find ourselves!  I am so agitated today, I just don't know where to turn, what to do, who to talk to!  I can call and email my senators all damn day - they are already Democrats, and even if they weren't, what good would it do?  I don't have a superPAC or lobbyists representing me, I can't pony up enough money to counteract the NRA and other groups that are calling the shots here.  We could muster a million people marching on DC, and the people in charge would turn a blind eye.  
What the hell are we supposed to do?  I don't want my grandchildren growing up in a world like this!

I'm speechless about the tragedies. [emoji20][emoji20][emoji20] and I wish I could do something - anything - to help you all to claim your country back. A country where it's safe to go to the mall and where elected officials actually serve the country.
Just don't give in to that feeling of hopelessness, because that's what they want you to feel. George Takei helps to flip 5 races and the first on his list is MoscowMitch. I guess this is a start.

[GreyhoundFan]

 

[dramallama]

[GreyhoundFan]

 

[Audrey2]

4 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

 

On the contrary, Texas Lawmaker, there is prayer in schools every day. Many students are praying that today isn't the day that a gunman invades their school. Our students shouldn't have to think about this.

[GreyhoundFan]

 

[smittykins]

Two words:  Bull. Shit.

Mulvaney:  President Trump’s rhetoric not to blame for mass shootings

Quote

Acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney said that no politician, including President Donald Trump, was to blame for shootings like those in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, which left at least 29 people dead this weekend.

As Democratic presidential candidates point the finger at the president's divisive rhetoric, Mulvaney said on ABC's "This Week" that the suspect who allegedly killed 20 people at a Walmart in El Paso, Texas, appeared to have been motivated by beliefs he harbored before Trump became president.

 

 

[Ozlsn]

31 minutes ago, smittykins said:

Two words:  Bull. Shit.

Mulvaney:  President Trump’s rhetoric not to blame for mass shootings

 

Ok so what is the rate of shootings under Trump compared to W.? Compared to Clinton? Compared to Bush Snr? And, of course, compared to these guys worst nightmare - Obama?

Because I feel like it's increased. And if that is correct I think that looking at who is radicalising people via Twitter, on TV, through the media is a good start. You preach discord and hate you get results apparently.

[dramallama]

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens - The Onion

When we as a nation, through our inaction, decided that 5 and 6 year old children in their kindergarten classrooms at Sandy Hook Elementary were acceptable losses on the altar of unlimited gun rights, it was over then. If that didn't spark change, nothing will. This is going to keep happening. This is the new normal. People will keep acting shocked and saddened every time, offering their fucking useless thoughts and prayers, until it happens again. And again. And again. Welcome to Hellworld.

[Glasgowghirl]

45 minutes ago, smittykins said:

Two words:  Bull. Shit.

Mulvaney:  President Trump’s rhetoric not to blame for mass shootings

 

Of course it has to do with it. Trump has in the past few weeks told people who were born in the US to go back where he came from and has painted Hispanics as the bogey men that he needs to build a wall to keep out, that and the fact that it's easy for the shooter to get the guns he needed.

When a young mother can't even go grocery shopping with her baby without getting shot and killed or you can't go to local festival's or concert's or even send your children to school without worrying about getting shot then your Country has a problem. The US has had over 200 mass shootings this year alone, here in the UK their has only been 3 in the 32 year's since I was born, Hungerford, Dumblane and Cumbria. Gun control won't stop every shooting but it will cut the number largely.

[JenniferJuniper]

9 minutes ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Gun control won't stop every shooting but it will cut the number largely.

I took the bait and responded to my asshole right-wing cousin's FB post about guns not killing people, it's people who kill people.  (my mother doesn't have FB, and he's in the middle of the woods in Montana somewhere.  She likes to "keep in touch".)

Fuckwad, says I, the guy in Dayton was dead in about 60 seconds and he still managed to kill at least nine people.  Why does any civilian needs a machine gun?

Response  - Hey, Obama lover (wtf?), you take my guns away and you remove my right to protect myself and my family.  This is America, and we will never have our guns taken from us.  Read the Constitution. 

Me -  I don't think the 18th century framers had automatic assault weapons in mind, do you?  And if you actually read the Constitution, you'd see that the right to bear arms is specifically in relation to a "well regulated militia" (militia meaning army) not to Johnny Lunatic who wants to shoot up a shopping mall because the world ain't respecting him enough.

Him - Take the guns away and only criminals will have guns.  You liberals love your illegals and criminals.  

Me -  Of course!  Doesn't everyone love criminals?  And you do love your Rush Limbaugh talking points.  What are you so frightened of anyway?  Swarms of rabid coyotes in bullet proof vests?   The criminals and illegals aren't looking for you, and couldn't find you even if they were.  

Him - I'm afraid of Libtards who are turning this country into a cesspool.   

I stopped here, deleted my posts and unfriended him because I hate even minimal contact with people like this and there is no point to talking with him,  but I know what he is afraid of.  He is white, male, marginally educated and terrified that "his country" is becoming more diverse, which of course will turn it into a "cesspool".   Oh, he routinely posts memes about "being color blind" but it's all thinly veiled racist shit.  Did I mention he thinks Trump is the greatest president ever?  His guns - and I have no doubt he has a collection - somehow make him feel more powerful and more in control.   

I don't know what was going on with the Dayton shooter, but my cousin would probably relate well to the Texas killer.  And I have no doubt the behavior of Trump and the right wing media are making things a thousand times worse.  

Ban assault weapons and tax the shit out of all ammunition.  Start there.  A bullet should cost 10 times what an edible gummy does in my state. 

[dramallama]

It seems that the Dayton shooter had a history of violent threats

Quote

Asked about reports that, while a Bellbrook student, Betts was suspended for causing a lockdown by writing a “hit-list” on a bathroom wall, Baker said, “I would not dispute that information, but I don’t want to get involved any more than just making that comment.”

A woman who went to high school with Betts recalled the hit-list.

“I know he made the list,” she said. “I’m not sure who the names were on there...He had a plan to shoot up the school.”

When she first heard about the shooting, she said Betts’ name came to her mind.

“I guessed it might’ve been him just from that list,” she said."

 

[47of74]

I took the bait and responded to my asshole right-wing cousin's FB post about guns not killing people, it's people who kill people.  (my mother doesn't have FB, and he's in the middle of the woods in Montana somewhere.  She likes to "keep in touch".)
Fuckwad, says I, the guy in Dayton was dead in about 60 seconds and he still managed to kill at least nine people.  Why does any civilian needs a machine gun?
Response  - Hey, Obama lover (wtf?), you take my guns away and you remove my right to protect myself and my family.  This is America, and we will never have our guns taken from us.  Read the Constitution. 
Me -  I don't think the 18th century framers had automatic assault weapons in mind, do you?  And if you actually read the Constitution, you'd see that the right to bear arms is specifically in relation to a "well regulated militia" (militia meaning army) not to Johnny Lunatic who wants to shoot up a shopping mall because the world ain't respecting him enough.
Him - Take the guns away and only criminals will have guns.  You liberals love your illegals and criminals.  
Me -  Of course!  Doesn't everyone love criminals?  And you do love your Rush Limbaugh talking points.  What are you so frightened of anyway?  Swarms of rabid coyotes in bullet proof vests?   The criminals and illegals aren't looking for you, and couldn't find you even if they were.  
Him - I'm afraid of Libtards who are turning this country into a cesspool.   
I stopped here, deleted my posts and unfriended him because I hate even minimal contact with people like this and there is no point to talking with him,  but I know what he is afraid of.  He is white, male, marginally educated and terrified that "his country" is becoming more diverse, which of course will turn it into a "cesspool".   Oh, he routinely posts memes about "being color blind" but it's all thinly veiled racist shit.  Did I mention he thinks Trump is the greatest president ever?  His guns - and I have no doubt he has a collection - somehow make him feel more powerful and more in control.   
I don't know what was going on with the Dayton shooter, but my cousin would probably relate well to the Texas killer.  And I have no doubt the behavior of Trump and the right wing media are making things a thousand times worse.  
Ban assault weapons and tax the shit out of all ammunition.  Start there.  A bullet should cost 10 times what an edible gummy does in my state. 

Sorry you had to deal with that.

My further response would have been to send him certified mail saying that he’s no longer welcome at my home or any property I own. That he’s not to contact me any more and that he is no longer family as far as I’m concerned. And if he wanted to visit my parents I would want a day’s notice so I wouldn’t be there.

[JenniferJuniper]

1 minute ago, 47of74 said:

Sorry you had to deal with that.

My further response would have been to send him certified mail saying that he’s no longer welcome at my home or any property I own. That he’s not to contact me any more and that he is no longer family as far as I’m concerned. And if he wanted to visit my parents I would want a day’s notice so I wouldn’t be there.

 

Thanks!  I only have my self to blame, really.  I'm just so tired of these freaks. 

I'm in "Libtard" Massachusetts so no danger of running into him anytime soon.  He just left Vermont after having his annual one week visit with my aunt, his mother.  He didn't come down to see my mother.  Mercifully.