Gun Violence Part 2: Thoughts and Prayers STILL Don't Work

[fraurosena]

1 hour ago, GreyhoundFan said:

"‘How the hell is this not inciting violence?’ Gun store erects billboard with minority lawmakers’ faces"

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The sign warns of the “4 Horsemen” — typically a reference to biblical imagery symbolizing the end of the earth: conquest, war, famine and death.

But the North Carolina billboard that went up over the weekend does not depict horsemen. It shows photos of the freshman congresswomen also known as “the Squad”: Rashida Tlaib of Michigan, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, Ilhan Omar of Minnesota and Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts. The billboard calls the progressive Democratic members of Congress “idiots” and is signed by “the Deplorables.”

Cherokee Guns, a Murphy, N.C., gun shop about a mile away from the sign, took responsibility for the billboard. An image shared to the shop’s Facebook page Sunday went viral this week and drew a sharp rebuke from the women pictured, as well as anti-gun-violence advocates. The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence on Monday called the billboard “violent rhetoric.”

“Threats against members of Congress, particularly minority members are [trending upward] and it is driven by the president’s racial rhetoric,” the group wrote. “This is dangerous!!!”

For the congresswomen, the menacing billboard is just another high-profile threat — one of many they say they have faced since they took office in 2018.

“How the hell is this not inciting violence?” Tlaib asked in a Wednesday evening tweet.

In her own tweet, Pressley called out Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.), whose district, she noted, houses the shop. She implored Meadows to “do the right thing.”

In April, a New York man was arrested and charged with threatening to kill Omar in a phone call to her Washington office. “Do you work for the Muslim Brotherhood?” authorities say the man asked the staffer who answered the phone. “Why are you working for her, she’s a [expletive] terrorist. I’ll put a bullet in her [expletive] skull.”

Days later, President Trump tweeted a video juxtaposing Omar with footage of the twin towers falling on 9/11, a post that triggered a flood of threatening messages so severe that Democratic leaders increased the congresswoman’s security, and an independent cybersecurity executive took it upon himself to flag them for the social network’s monitors.

Last week, two Louisiana police officers were fired for a Facebook post that suggested Ocasio-Cortez should be shot. At the time, the congresswoman blamed Trump’s rhetoric for the deluge of threats she and her colleagues had received. “This is Trump’s goal when he uses targeted language & threatens elected officials who don’t agree w/ his political agenda,” she wrote on Twitter. “It’s authoritarian behavior. The President is sowing violence. He’s creating an environment where people can get hurt & he claims plausible deniability.”

As people flocked to Cherokee Guns’ Facebook page Monday, the store put out a statement indicating it had received “OVERWHELMING demand” for apparel with the billboard’s image.

“Alright my fellow Infidels for Trump . . . due to OVERWHELMING demand . . . you may come by the shop (next week) and get your very own FOUR HORSEMEN COMETH STICKER . . . simple . . . eat a piece of bacon . . . tell us you’re voting for Trump in 2020 . . . then get your limited edition bumper sticker! (While supplies last!) Snowflakes and Liberals are not eligible . . . sorry...”

Cherokee Guns has a rich history of controversial billboards, especially ones that are overtly Islamophobic. In 2017, the store posted a picture of a different sign with “a great message.” “INFIDEL ARMAMENT” it read in block letters above Arabic script and a rifle. Two years before that, the Asheville Citizen-Times wrote, the shop put up a billboard that said, “Give me your tired, your poor . . . Keep your Syrian refugees.”

This week, the Citizen-Times reported that it spoke to the store’s owner, Doc Wacholz, who downplayed his billboard’s implications and sought to justify its message.

“They’re socialists, from my point of view,” he told the local paper, before adding, “I also feel a couple of them, being Muslim, have ties to actual terrorists groups."

”I’m not inciting any violence or being racist,” he added. “It’s a statement. It’s an opinion.”

 

But... but... without violence, there would be no use for guns!

[fraurosena]

DAMN IT!

Another one... Mall shooting with multiple shooters ongoing in El Paso.

 

 

 

[fraurosena]

More news on the shooting with multiple fatalities at a Walmart in El Paso.

Multiple people have been killed in a shooting in El Paso, Texas, police say

Quote

Multiple people were killed Saturday in a shooting in El Paso, Texas, according to local police. Authorities do not believe there is an ongoing threat, El Paso Police Sgt. Enrique Castillo told reporters.

Three suspects were in custody, El Paso Mayor Dee Margo told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. Castillo previously said there was one person in custody.

At least 11 people have been transported to Del Sol Medical Center, according to hospital spokesman Victor Guerrero. Multiple victims were earlier reported injured at a Walmart, according to CNN affiliate KTSM.

Police responded Saturday to an active shooter in the area of the Cielo Vista Mall, they tweeted. "Scene is still active," police wrote at 1:03 p.m. ET, adding, "avoid the area" around Hawkins and Gateway East boulevards. Police earlier said they received reports of multiple shooters and were "conducting (a) search of a very large area."

Agents from the FBI office in El Paso are responding to the incident, the office told CNN.

A second mall about 2.5 miles away from Cielo Vista is also on lockdown, according to an employee at a liquor store attached to the mall. Authorities put the mall on lockdown because of the reported shooting at Cielo Vista, Frankie Nunez, an employee at Bassett WB Liquors & Wine, said. And an employee at the Target store at Bassett Place also confirmed the mall had been placed on lockdown.

'You don't think it could happen here'

At least three businesses are on lockdown in the area, about three miles south of El Paso International Airport.

Three Walmart employees took refuge at a nearby Landry's Seafood house, restaurant manager Oscar Collazo told CNN. The women appeared "shook up" but not injured. Landry's had already gone on lockdown, he said, but opened its doors when the employees ran there. "We never thought it would be so close to us this time," Collazo said. "You see on the news all the time, but you don't think it could happen here until it does."

The nearby Hooters and Red Lobster are also on lockdown. Employees at those restaurants told CNN they are safe and see a lot of police, helicopters and people running around outside.

In a shaky Snapchat video aired by CNN, a woman holding the camera frantically runs with a small group of girls or women through a Cielo Vista mall department store and into a parking lot. As the group hurries past racks of clothes and cases of merchandise, voices off camera shout, "Hands up!"

Once in the parking lot, one member of the group asks, "What happened?"

"I don't know," the woman holding the camera responds. "I don't know."

President Donald Trump has been briefed on the shooting, and the White House is monitoring the situation, Deputy Press Secretary Steven Groves said in a statement.

Democratic presidential candidate Beto O'Rourke, who once represented the area in Congress, asked residents to follow the directions of first responders. "Truly heartbreaking," O'Rourke said on Twitter. "Stay safe, El Paso."

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott tweeted that the state Department of Public Safety is assisting local law enforcement.

The scene is unfolding in the same week two employees were fatally shot at a Walmart store in Southaven, Mississippi, and three people were shot and killed at the Gilroy Garlic Festival in California.

 

El Paso mall shooting: Multiple people dead, suspect in custody, police say

Quote

Multiple people are dead, with at least 18 taken to hospitals Saturday after a shooting near a shopping mall in El Paso, Texas, law enforcement officials said. One suspect, a man, is in custody, police said.

A second person was also taken into custody by authorities, but it is not immediately known what role, if any, the person played in the shooting, sources familiar with the investigation told NBC News.

El Paso police said the initial calls about the incident came at about 10 a.m. local time. By about 1 p.m. police said there was no imminent threat at that point. Earlier, in several tweets, police urged people to stay away from the area near the Cielo Vista mall due to an "active shooter."

Police said at one point that they were receiving reports of multiple shooters but later said they believe there was only one.

The FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives responded to the scene to assist the El Paso Police Department.

The police tweeted that the shooting situation was in the area of Hawkins and Gateway East boulevards, which is the location of a Walmart.

In a tweet Saturday afternoon, Walmart said it was "in shock."

"We’re praying for the victims, the community & our associates, as well as the first responders," a statement posted on Twitter read. "We’re working closely with law enforcement & will update as appropriate."

A University Medical Center of El Paso spokesman said multiple victims have been taken to different hospitals. University Medical Center got at least 10 victims with "level one" injuries, which is the most serious level, spokesman Ryan Mielke said.

"Our hearts go out to those who have been injured and the families of those who may have been killed," El Paso Mayor Dee Margo said during an interview with NBC affiliate KTSM in El Paso.

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said in a statement Saturday that he is headed to El Paso.

“While no words can provide the solace needed for those impacted by this event, I ask that all Texans join Cecilia and me in offering our prayers for the victims and their families,” he said. “The state of Texas will do everything it can to ensure justice is delivered to the perpetrators of this heinous act.”

Rep. Veronica Escobar, D-Texas, was an hour into a town hall meeting at Coronado High School 15 miles from the mall, when she abruptly had to end the event because of the shooting.

“You all, I am so sorry,” she said. “There is an active shooter. We are going to need to clear the event.”

The crowd gasped in response and began to move, according to the congresswoman’s Facebook Live video.

“Oh, it’s at Cielo Vista,” Escobar quickly clarified before apologizing for not being clearer. “We’ve been asked by law enforcement to just send everybody home,” she said.

A reunification site for families of possible victims was set up at a local school.

El Paso Community College said in a tweet that all of its campuses have been evacuated "out of an abundance of caution."

Democratic presidential hopeful Beto O’Rourke of El Paso urged residents in El Paso to "stay safe."

"Truly heartbreaking," he wrote in a tweet. "Please follow all directions of emergency personnel as we continue to get more updates."

This is a developing story, check back for updates.

 

 

 

[fraurosena]

Of course Abbot will be brimming over with his thoughts and prayers today. 

 

Sweet loving Rufus! ?

A four month old baby among the ones shot. What will the pro-lifers say to that, I wonder? 

 

[Ozlsn]

Is anyone else just having an extremely weary reaction to this news? It's another shooting. There will be lots of 'it's too early, think of the victims' responses to any suggestion of tightening gun laws. There will be thoughts and prayers. There will be no change. And there will be more shootings. I keep hoping that this one will be the one that gets enough people to step back, that tips the balance. And who knows, maybe it will.

But as a start perhaps restricting young, white men from buying certain/any weapons might help.

I just finished reading this article on the shootings. And this really stood out to me:

"Mass shootings are common in the United States"

Edited August 3, 2019 by Ozlsn
Second article

[fraurosena]

Yup.

I've been reading messages that the shooter is a white supremacist who had a manifesto up on 8chan. No idea of the veracity of these claims as yet.

[Destiny]

Is anyone else just having an extremely weary reaction to this news? It's another shooting. There will be lots of 'it's too early, think of the victims' responses to any suggestion of tightening gun laws. There will be thoughts and prayers. There will be no change. And there will be more shootings. I keep hoping that this one will be the one that gets enough people to step back, that tips the balance. And who knows, maybe it will.
But as a start perhaps restricting young, white men from buying certain/any weapons might help.
I just finished reading this article on the shootings. And this really stood out to me:
"Mass shootings are common in the United States"

I no longer have any hope. If Sandy Hook didn’t do it, if Parkland didn’t do it, if Orlando didn’t do it, nothing will. We love our fucking guns more than our kids, and until that changes, nothing will.

[Ozlsn]

15 minutes ago, Destiny said:

I no longer have any hope. If Sandy Hook didn’t do it, if Parkland didn’t do it, if Orlando didn’t do it, nothing will. We love our fucking guns more than our kids, and until that changes, nothing will.

Is it a case of critical mass of people wanting regulation though? My impression is that there is a die hard group of "no regulation whatsoever" and a much larger group who are divided in how much regulation but who do at least agree that some is a good idea. I have said previously that I'm in favour of Jim Wright's idea of using the NRA's guidelines for responsible gun ownership as the basis for regulation - hoist them on their own bloody rope.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Ozlsn
added link

[Dandruff]

Am following the news about El Paso.  Of course they're checking to see if the rifle used was bought legally.  If not, the guy may be charged with a hate crime.  Why not just spit in the faces of the victims and their loved ones while the lobbying goes on to keep these types of weapons readily available to the public?

[Ozlsn]

1 hour ago, Dandruff said:

Of course they're checking to see if the rifle used was bought legally.  If not, the guy may be charged with a hate crime.

WTAF??? Honestly how does whether the weapon was bought legally or not change whether it's a hate crime?? I mean, sure, by all means trace the weapon and if it's illegal then make the book a bit heavier and go after the seller as well, but ffs filling out the correct paperwork doesn't change the nature of the damn crime. It's like arguing that 9/11 was "only" mass murder, not terrorism because they bought plane tickets. Ffs.

[fraurosena]

Remember how after Parkland the pro-gun crowd lead by Trump said that all of it would have been prevented if only the teachers were armed?

Well, after today they certainly can’t use that argument anymore. There were many punters in the mall that were carrying arms. The only thing that lead to was confusion amongst witnesses and worse, among first responders as to how many shooters there actually were. Think of that for a minute. The police didn’t know if the person they saw with a gun in their hands was the bad guy or not... and to top it all off, with all those armed and (presumably) ready to shoot vigilantes on the scene, with so many freaking guns and ammo in the store where it took place, there were still so many fatalities and victims, and the murderer was eventually caught without being shot.

Edited August 4, 2019 by fraurosena

[WiseGirl]

Heartbroken. I don't even know what to say anymore. Trying to be optimistic like Sandy Hook Promise, but it is so hard to do right now.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by WiseGirl

[thoughtful]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/el-paso-texas-shooting-suspect-patrick-crusius-what-we-know/

Quote

The document was shared on 4Chan, an online forum where users can post anonymously. Within it, the suspect denounces Hispanic people in Texas, cites concerns about losing American jobs to automation and criticizes both political parties. The text includes a reference to the Christchurch mosque shootings in New Zealand, which left 51 people dead.

 

[fraurosena]

11 minutes ago, thoughtful said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/el-paso-texas-shooting-suspect-patrick-crusius-what-we-know/

 

Just came to post about this too. Horrific, isn’t it?

 His lack of pigmentation doesn’t magically alter the egregious act of terror he committed ffs! Everybody should be referring to him as a terrorist, not a fucking troubled youth!!

Edited August 4, 2019 by fraurosena

[AmazonGrace]

This is the future that Republicans want

[dramallama]

Suspect and 9 others dead, at least 16 wounded in Oregon District shooting - WHIO - Dayton, OH

10 more dead tonight in Dayton, Ohio - including the shooter.  No known motive yet.  White guy, from what I'm reading.  I live near Dayton.

[Ozlsn]

21 minutes ago, dramallama said:

Suspect and 9 others dead, at least 16 wounded in Oregon District shooting - WHIO - Dayton, OH

10 more dead tonight in Dayton, Ohio - including the shooter.  No known motive yet.  White guy, from what I'm reading.  I live near Dayton.

OMG this is unbelievable. I hope you and your family and friends are safe @dramallama. 

I hope like hell these are not connected, but three in a week? Is very concerning. Perhaps this means the various agencies will stop looking at them as individual attacks and more as a pattern of radicalised terror attacks.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Ozlsn
More thoughts

[fraurosena]

I agree, although he's forgetting the indoctrination to hate that Trump does at his rallies.

 

[dramallama]

More on the Dayton attack:

Quote

According to unconfirmed witness accounts and photographs, the shooter appears to have been a young white man wearing a black hooded sweatshirt. One witness described the shooter as a “white man in all black with an [AR-15-style assault rifle]” who “just opened fire for 30 seconds straight, killing or injuring 10-20 people.”

Everything we know about the Dayton mass shooting - NYMag

[fraurosena]

[danvillebelle]

13 hours ago, Destiny said:

I no longer have any hope. If Sandy Hook didn’t do it, if Parkland didn’t do it, if Orlando didn’t do it, nothing will. We love our fucking guns more than our kids, and until that changes, nothing will.

Same.  Just as there are many countries around the world that have dealt with decades of civil war and violence throughout history, I just accept that America is now a place with frequent mass shootings.  Period.  I don't expect it to change in my lifetime, frankly.  

The only thing I can see that will change the laws, is if it starts to affect big money and the entire economic sector (as in, people stop shopping and eating out by the hundreds of thousands or millions, because they are afraid of being gunned down).  Until it hurts the powers-that-be's pocketbook - nope, ain't gonna happen.  

#MoscowMitch, Fuckface Von Clownstick, Greg Abbott, the NRA,  et. al. care more about their corporate money and guns than they do human life.  Period.  Full Stop.  

[fraurosena]

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

Mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio.

Spoiler

Nine people were killed and 26 injured after a shooter opened fire in a busy area in the Oregon District of Dayton, Ohio.

Here is what we know:

Nine people are dead and 16 injured after the shooting at 1:22 a.m. ET.

The shooter is also dead.

Police officers were in the area when the shooting started and killed the shooter in "less than a minute," according to the authorities.

The shooter was wearing body armor, used a “.223 high-capacity” gun and had additional magazines with him, according to Dayton mayor Nan Whaley.

 

[WiseGirl]

10 hours ago, fraurosena said:

Everybody should be referring to him as a terrorist

Absolutely.

Encouragingly I just overheard a commentator on CNN say call them what they are, White Nationalist Terrorists. 

I can't even. At what point are masses of Americans going to seek asylum in other countries from violence? I worry for our country. I worry that I legitimately feel the need to make a plan to leave this country in a hurry if I need to. 

It is so hard to remain hopeful.

Fuck you #MoscowMitch, 45, NRA, white supremacists, and all who bought into and voted for 45. This is not the America our forefathers envisioned. 

[danvillebelle]

6 minutes ago, WiseGirl said:

At what point are masses of Americans going to seek asylum in other countries from violence?

Honestly - if I had the money and could take my dog and cats with me, I'd already be long gone.