Bill Hybels (Willow Creek) Accused of Sexual Misconduct

[Joy83]

His kids were in the front row backing him up. They absolutely are included if they know he is guilty and now they are lying for him. 

By going to be the media these people have created SO much damage it is unbelievable. 

Quote

15“If your brother or sisterb sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’

The above was NOT done. And I don’t see how the investigation wasn’t done properly or perhaps would nice for this courageous group to come out with why they think it was unfair. 

I will have to look into what the Bible says about holding leaders up to higher standards then others. I have never seen scripture that supports this or states this. I am willing to look into it. 

[livinginthelight]

9 minutes ago, Joy83 said:

I will have to look into what the Bible says about holding leaders up to higher standards then others. I have never seen scripture that supports this or states this. I am willing to look into it. 

James 3:1

Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

Also, you don't know for sure that no one went to him directly.

Interestingly, I don't hear you saying you think the charges are false. Only that all have sinned and damage was done to the church.

[Joy83]

I will again look more into this passage. I have no problem doing so. 

I guess my question is then did they give him a chance to step down? You need to step down or we will go the media? 

 

[livinginthelight]

7 minutes ago, Joy83 said:

I guess my question is then did they give him a chance to step down? You need to step down or we will go the media?

I don't know how it was phrased. But if he were going to step down, he had plenty of opportunity during the years it was being quietly investigated. I don't think the word "media" would have made a difference. He fought tooth and nail then and continues to do so.

You sound like you are an innocent person caught up in this. I truly am sorry for your pain. This is an absolute mess.

[Joy83]

Thank you for your concern. I do know that not one person is the church and that God remains at the helm. 

If everything they say is true and that Bill is a master manipulator then my last 30 years of investment @ Willow has been a waste and a stain on my soul. I continue to attend, my kids attend here and I am now questioning everything. 

My heart and soul is broken. 

And now the willow haters are all validated and starting to gain boldness. 

[livinginthelight]

11 minutes ago, Joy83 said:

Thank you for your concern. I do know that not one person is the church and that God remains at the helm. 

If everything they say is true and that Bill is a master manipulator then my last 30 years of investment @ Willow has been a waste and a stain on my soul. I continue to attend, my kids attend here and I am now questioning everything. 

My heart and soul is broken. 

And now the willow haters are all validated and starting to gain boldness. 

You are so right that God is at the helm. And God has been able to do many good works through Willow Creek.

For what it's worth, I don't think your 30 years there have been a waste. You've grown in the Lord and so have your children. It's not black/white or all/nothing. There is a lot of goodness even though the leader has done horrible things.

I'm praying for healing for the hearts of the congregation even as I pray for truth to emerge.

Hugs and peace to you, @Joy83

[nokidsmom]

Coming back to FJ after traveling last week and see this.   I live and work in the area.  Several coworkers and a former boss attended this church though I don't know anyone there now.    I have no insight on whether this is true or not, but know it's has to be difficult for the congregation @Joy83.  And 30 years is not a waste regardless of what the truth is about the leader.  

[molecule]

1 hour ago, Joy83 said:

My heart and soul is broken. 

My heart has been hurting for Willow. I've known quite a few people for whom Willow played a significant role in their own faith journey. Even years later and in different churches, these friends are struggling with this. Shauna's Facebook post the other day just about broke my heart. Of course she sat in the front row and supported her dad. Whether he did what he is accused of or not, he is her father and she loves him. We don't stop loving people just because sins have come to light. In fact, that is when we should love them more. I don't think it is lying to sit where your dad can see that you still love him.

If you have felt God's presence at Willow, then there has been no waste. There certainly is no stain on your soul. Bill has been the leader of the church, but the body of Christ includes all members, not just him. As you continue questioning, if you look at the entirety of your Willow experience and not just at Bill, you will see things more fully.

Even the most challenging situations can serve to refine and sharpen us. As you all reflect on your experiences and walk through this difficulty, you will learn things about yourself and others. You'll grow in wisdom. You will grow in your ability to extend and receive grace. You will learn about forgiveness. God can bring good things out of the darkest situations, but I also think it is good and healing to allow yourself to grieve. 

A lot of people are praying for the Willow community right now, and not just for those directly involved in the accusations.

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, Joy83 said:

Because if Bill is guilty and then ALL of these people are guilty of covering it up. 

And that is something that people need to be willing to accept. Sometimes people who seem to be wonderful end up being truly terrible and willing to turn a blind eye towards abuse. 

2 hours ago, Joy83 said:

At some point it’s not about the acts in question. ALL of have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. 

I really hate this mindset that all sins are equal and we have all sinned so what he did doesn't matter. The acts are very very much important. There is "Oh our pastor is accused of going five miles over the speed limit" and then there is "our pastor is being accused of long term sexual harassment." 

2 hours ago, Joy83 said:

Well the accusers got what they wanted and more. Not only has Bill Hybels been broken.

How do you know that is what they wanted? You are showing way more sympathy for him than you are the people who are saying he hurt them. 

1 hour ago, Joy83 said:

By going to be the media these people have created SO much damage it is unbelievable

it sounds like he most likely did an unbelievable amount of damage. Way more than bringing this to the media does.  Again, you are showing him more compassion than the women accusers or the ones who shown a light on it. If a church fights to hide problems like this in the darkness, it is time to start thinking about if it are actually following Jesus. 

It seems like it really bothers you that the accusations against him became public. When a person of his position gets accused of such things, hiding it is the WORST thing to happen. I've seen so many churches try to hide the bad stuff the pastor does to keep up a "good appearance" and it never ends up well. So many victims of abuse in churches have been told to keep it out of the media and let the church handle it lest they damage the church. It is all about keeping up appearances. If I attended Willow Creek, hell yeah I'd want to know all about this. 

1 hour ago, Joy83 said:

And now the willow haters are all validated and starting to gain boldness

Have you considered the "willow haters" might actually have something to hate on? Like maybe Willow hasn't been so innocent? Why does it bother you that people who disagree with the church are bold about it? Either the church can stand up to the criticism, or it can't because something bad is actually going on. 

I'm sorry that you feel hurt and like your years there are a waste. If you learned something, then they haven't been. 

[Pammy]

2 hours ago, SamiKatz said:

Kissing someone without checking to see if it was welcome is pretty much, sexual assault.  Like, a chargeable offense type of thing. (At least, I think it is).

 

I'm pleasantly surprised to hear that.

I think I have been watching too much tv, or times have changed since I was single and/or desirable.

I was under the impression that a kiss might be sort of a 'lean in and pause' thing, or that it was normal (ish?) for it to sometimes be awkwardly unclear whether both people wanted to kiss. I guess that's only for show business. I'll need to wrap my head around real life relationships beginning with post-Victorian formalities (like asking permission before a kiss). I actually kind of like it.

I have young teen daughters, so it's good for me to know these things from more reasonable sources!

 

[SilverBeach]

Bill Hybels is just a man. Maybe he should have followed his own admonition to not be alone with any woman other than his wife. I have no sympathy for these religious CEOs who can't even follow a basic Christian principle of no adultery. He alone has caused his family's discomfort.

Men like Hybels are not deserving of any special protections, and are not fit for leadership positions. People in the church who make excuse after excuse for these men, while blaming the victims, make the church a laughing stock not deserving of respect. 

"Willow haters" are not a thing. No one is happy when misconduct cones to light. Methinks a certain poster has misplaced anger. And there is certainly no stain on her soul because of Hybel's behavior and the resultant fallout.

Bill Hybels is also not the entirety of WC! With umteen thousands of people, the programs and whatnot can certainly continue. There is no need to discard the good. Put your faith in God, not a man or church. Then you won't be devastated, or even surprised, when they fail.

FWIW, I am a Christ follower and I belong to a church, an imperfect one for sure. 

[Joy83]

please don’t tell me how I feel. There is NO proof as of right now so it is only fair to ask questions no?

If you don’t go to Willow then you don’t understand the pain this brings upon us. 

There are willow haters I have heard it all. “They are too big” “all the care about it money” “the worship is satanic” “the preaching is too light” “they are bad tippers” I have heard it all. I already had someone come up to me and basically wag their finger in my face saying “see I told you so”

I am not blaming the “victims” except confused why they would betray the trust of their FORMER church family. 

Livinginthelight seems to know exactly how this thing went down and I think it’s important that this “other” side knows the pain they caused by going to the media. 

I and many others have to now deal with a potentially lying pastor, his lying family and lying elders. 

What would you do? Leave? 

[feministxtian]

WIllow Creek Association has done a lot of good. It's not centered on one man. Now, honestly, I've never been a fan of Hybels, but that's a different discussion for a different time. The problem I have is with the mega-church model. I've attended quite a few, including 2 of the biggest churches here in LV. It SEEMS that the pastor tends to get a bit of an ego, and that's never a good thing. Its part of what drove us out of the mega-church scene into our smallish church where our pastor knows everyone, can pick up the phone and call a church member who's having a difficult time. 

I don't know if the accusations are true or not, I'm inclined to believe they are true, there's been some rumors floating around for years. But...Willow Creek is NOT Bill Hybels and Bill Hybels, even if he thought he was Willow Creek, is not. The church will hold, I hope. I hope there is some sort of succession plan in place, but in many of these cases, there isn't...and the church becomes a cult of personality, not a house of God. I am thankful that our pastor, who is the founding pastor has already put a plan into place and says repeatedly that the church isn't the pastor and the pastor isn't the church. 

8 minutes ago, Joy83 said:

What would you do? Leave? 

I would do what God is leading you to do. Pray, pray again, pray some more. Leaving a church is HARD. Listen to that still, small voice. If you want to talk, PM me...ok? 

[EowynW]

24 minutes ago, Joy83 said:

please don’t tell me how I feel. There is NO proof as of right now so it is only fair to ask questions no?

If you don’t go to Willow then you don’t understand the pain this brings upon us. 

There are willow haters I have heard it all. “They are too big” “all the care about it money” “the worship is satanic” “the preaching is too light” “they are bad tippers” I have heard it all. I already had someone come up to me and basically wag their finger in my face saying “see I told you so”

I am not blaming the “victims” except confused why they would betray the trust of their FORMER church family. 

Livinginthelight seems to know exactly how this thing went down and I think it’s important that this “other” side knows the pain they caused by going to the media. 

I and many others have to now deal with a potentially lying pastor, his lying family and lying elders. 

What would you do? Leave? 

Don't tell us we don't understand. Don't tell us how we should feel because there are many of us who have been through similar experiences in other churches. 

It is heartbreaking. I understand. I've been there. But until the dust clears, the best thing to do is to hunker down and pray. Not go to battle about your church's honor. Pray for the truth to come out. For justice to be dealt. That if there truly has been wrongdoing, that it will be brought to light. These things MUST be brought to light. God will not tolerate churches covering up these things. Pray for the elders and leaders to have wisdom as they deal with it. Pray that your church is humble enough to accept that there indeed might have been wrongdoing behind the scenes. Bringing up a complaint of wrongdoing is in NO WAY betraying your church family. Betraying a church and God is hiding sin and gleefully entertaining it. 

[SilverBeach]

@Joy83 if you are talking to me, I'm not telling you how to feel but you do come across as angry at everyone but Hybels.

Do whatever the Holy Spirit tells you to do. Sex scandals are more common than you think, there was a big one at my church in the late eighties. I know the pain. I have attended the Global Leadership Conference several times. There's sympathy out here for the WC congregation at large.

Perhaps the accusers feel their trust was betrayed, and that their first loyalty is to God and the truth.

There is seldom a smoking gun in sexual misconduct cases. Perpetrators don't usually record themselves or misbehave in front of witnesses. But there is usually a high cost to coming forward, which begs the question why false allegations would be made when you will be disparaged because of it.

Not saying false allegations don't happen, but here there were a series of events spanning a considerable length of time. That lends credibility.

A church can survive and even thrive if it confronts things head-on. Establish new leadership teams. stablish strong and clear policies. Create zero tolerance requirements and sit people down when under investigation, understanding that investigations may be at best inconclusive. 

Fundamentalism is riddled with sexual abuse. Not saying WC is fundamentalist, but it is understandable that many on this anri-fundamentalist board would tend to believe the victims. It's a sad story that has played out far too many times.

Best wishes.

[formergothardite]

45 minutes ago, Joy83 said:

I and many others have to now deal with a potentially lying pastor, his lying family and lying elders. 

What would you do? Leave? 

Realize that this isn't the first religious organization where this has happened and won't be the last. Realize that these people aren't God and should be looked at with a critical eye. What would I did? If the church continued to rally around him and give him standing ovations for saying it was all lies? Leave. That is a sign of a church that is rotten in the core. Being all we support #MeToo unless it is against our pastor is not exactly a good testimony. 

45 minutes ago, Joy83 said:

I am not blaming the “victims” except confused why they would betray the trust of their FORMER church family. 

What does this even mean? You are blaming them for coming out and making it public? Do you not think everyone should know the accusations against him? If not, why? If I was looking for a church I would sure want to know if the pastor is being accused of long term sexual harassment. 

45 minutes ago, Joy83 said:

other” side knows the pain they caused by going to the media. 

I get it, it hurts  to find out that an organization you care about deeply is accused of doing bad things, but the pain of having to deal with this is nothing compared to the real damage that would come from not making it public. The media needed to know so that people in the community know. 

45 minutes ago, Joy83 said:

There are willow haters I have heard it all. “They are too big” “all the care about it money” “the worship is satanic” “the preaching is too light” “they are bad tippers” I have heard it all. I already had someone come up to me and basically wag their finger in my face saying “see I told you so”

Well have you looked into why people thing these things? What caused people to come in contact with Willow and come away thinking these things. Maybe people really have had bad experiences with Willow. I know that I personally had a TERRIBLE experience at a church that many people absolutely adore. And members there get super offended if I dare mention my bad experience and why I think little of this church. Sure, these people didn't experience this, but I did. I understand that people have great experiences at that church, but I was treated terrible and that colors the way I view this church. Maybe you would discover someone is just crazy and things anything is Satanic, or maybe you would discover that people did actually have some issues with the church. No church is perfect, but trying to call all who disagree "haters" is sort of making it seem like criticism of the church isn't acceptable. 

 

[luv2laugh]

Bill Hybels will retire as a rich man in October. I am not too concerned about him hurting the future of WC since he will be gone. If things were covered up then that’s a concern I can see. A female will be lead pastor and I’m sure they will put new policies in place or ways of investigating.

[formergothardite]

Quote

This year church elders raised his annual salary, to $95,000, with a $20,000 housing allowance. The church also pays for his BMW. He will not disclose how much he makes in royalties from the sale of books and audio sermons.

Quote

After a long discussion with his wife, he bought a sailboat of his own and started spending his summers at a cottage in South Haven, Mich.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-061121-hybelsprofile-story.html

I'm going to judge. I don't think pastors should be forced into poverty, but come on! A boat, a summer cottage, a BMW, refusing to say how much money he is getting from book and audio sales?! Yeah, he is going to retire a rich man. 

[luv2laugh]

20 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-061121-hybelsprofile-story.html

I'm going to judge. I don't think pastors should be forced into poverty, but come on! A boat, a summer cottage, a BMW, refusing to say how much money he is getting from book and audio sales?! Yeah, he is going to retire a rich man. 

That is really disgusting to me that he would use money from the church to pay for a BMW... WC is in Barrington which along with Winnetka, Lake Forest, and Gothard-Land in Hinsdale, if not the richest, it’s one of *THE* wealthiest suburbs in Illinois and is surrounded by 5 million dollar mansions and horses. I’m not saying all WC cares about is money but the church paying for a luxury vehicle says otherwise to me.

[formergothardite]

The money from the church should be used to help people, not buy an already wealthy man a fancy car. Maybe the complaints about the church being all about money weren't that far off. Can you imagine what it would be like if you were struggling financially and finding out that your tithes were paying for the pastor's BMW?

It is a huge red flag that he didn't want to be transparent about how much money he was making in royalties. 

[feministxtian]

7 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-061121-hybelsprofile-story.html

I'm going to judge. I don't think pastors should be forced into poverty, but come on! A boat, a summer cottage, a BMW, refusing to say how much money he is getting from book and audio sales?! Yeah, he is going to retire a rich man. 

Why I stay away from "cult of personality" churches. There's full disclosure at our church...we know how much the entire pastoral staff makes, how much the teachers at the school make. Our pastor voluntarily discloses how much he makes from other speaking engagements. Yes, our pastor has a summer home in Pennsylvania...it was his wife's grandparents' place and she inherited it. His car? Well...he could use a new one but he won't buy one. 

Like I said above, I have issues with Hybels, and I have issues with Willow Creek and I have issues with mega-churches. But...that's not the topic of discussion here. I think what happens is these men and their "cult of personality" start feeling they're truly God's messengers and the only ones that "know" what God wants. I think they're full of shit and would walk out of any church where the pastor acted like that. 

[nokidsmom]

23 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

The money from the church should be used to help people, not buy an already wealthy man a fancy car. Maybe the complaints about the church being all about money weren't that far off. Can you imagine what it would be like if you were struggling financially and finding out that your tithes were paying for the pastor's BMW?

It is a huge red flag that he didn't want to be transparent about how much money he was making in royalties. 

Okay, I will admit not surprised to see complaints about it being all about the money.  Aside from the fact that the main church is located in a very wealthy suburb, many of the people I knew were flat out rich and one of them was very obsessed with the idea of success, i.e. prosperity gospel.  

Not to say that all folks there were wealthy or were focused on the money but I can see where the complaints are coming from.   

Agree that pastors don't need to live a life of poverty but this guy is definitely not hurting.  A Beemer paid for by the church?  Darn I am in the wrong business. 

 

 

[SilverBeach]

The pastor of my ex-husbands church went to federal prison for several years for embezzlement of church funds. This pastor was very well known in black Pentecostal circles and in the Chicago area black church in general.

Upon his release, he railed against the member that turned him in. He did not apoligize to what was left of the congregation, nor was he removed from the pulpit. As far as I know he never made restitution despite this church being in a poor south side neighborhood. 

It was not my church for several reasons, but this situation is a textbook example of how not to handle pastoral misconduct. My ex had been a member there for twenty-five  years, and remained blindly loyal for years, then left after finding out that the embezzeled amount was in the six figures. This pastor's son is now the head.

Lots and lots of these incidents in metro Chicago.

[apple1]

2 hours ago, Joy83 said:

please don’t tell me how I feel. There is NO proof as of right now so it is only fair to ask questions no?

If you don’t go to Willow then you don’t understand the pain this brings upon us. 

There are willow haters I have heard it all. “They are too big” “all the care about it money” “the worship is satanic” “the preaching is too light” “they are bad tippers” I have heard it all. I already had someone come up to me and basically wag their finger in my face saying “see I told you so”

I am not blaming the “victims” except confused why they would betray the trust of their FORMER church family. 

Livinginthelight seems to know exactly how this thing went down and I think it’s important that this “other” side knows the pain they caused by going to the media. 

I and many others have to now deal with a potentially lying pastor, his lying family and lying elders. 

What would you do? Leave? 

@Joy83 I have sat on my fingers, figuratively, and have hesitated to reply for a few reasons. But I feel like I want to put a few things out (not in any particular order).

- Your posts seem to imply that this is your first time to need to come to terms with this type of situation and experience.

- Your posts seem to not only imply, but to state clearly, that you think that nobody outside Willow Creek could possibly understand. You would be wrong. Some of us have way too much experience with these situations. The names and locations of the churches differ, but same basic experience(s). Don't discount our experiences. Many of us remain Christ-followers. Some of us, myself included (and I am far older than the average FJ member), have seen these scenarios multiple times.

- You have received a good amount of fair and valuable feedback in this thread, in spite of the way you have lashed out. I think most here are perceptive enough to realize that the lashing out is from a place of hurt. I hope you can stop and think long enough to realize that you are not the only one.

- As for the often-repeated "nobody's perfect, God forgives" - that is true. It does not, however, mean that anyone is or should be exempt from the consequences of their actions. Choices have consequences. Being a pastor, or church leader, does not make the person immune to those consequences.

I myself have been through similar experiences, unfortunately multiple times. Not personally involving mega-churches. (My sister, however, was harmed by a different Chicago-area mega church, FBCHammond. Nuther story). I have no quick or easy answers. While the hurting becomes less intense as time passes, its recurrence has, if anything, made things harder. I remain a self-identified Christian, without many of the answers that I wish I had. At the least, I wish I understood more of how and why these situations occur (and I don't mean just saying "Satan" or "haters" or other similar answers). One commonality that I have observed - and this seems to be the case in many types of church situations, whether small or medium or mega churches, whether "fundie" or "community" or traditionally liturgical or whatever - is a major power differential, and an "in crowd" vs. "out", an administrators and those in control vs. others. I can't help but feel that at least part of the problem lies therein.

[nokidsmom]

3 minutes ago, apple1 said:

One commonality that I have observed - and this seems to be the case in many types of church situations, whether small or medium or mega churches, whether "fundie" or "community" or traditionally liturgical or whatever - is a major power differential, and an "in crowd" vs. "out", an administrators and those in control vs. others. I can't help but feel that at least part of the problem lies therein.

I agree with this.  I have not experienced this in any of the churches that I attended however just before we married, Mr. No had a situation in his church which he felt was exactly the above power imbalance.  He tried to address this only to be ignored as he was not in the "in" crowd.  He left shortly afterward.