Josie and Kelton 1: Here We Go Again

[J'Lurker]

Carlin would never miss the opportunity for #jesuslovesthebridalshop and #jesuslovesthesalesonweddingdecor and #praisejesusweregettingmarriedtoday #jesuslovesnewlyweds 

She will just beg incessantly if Gil says they have to wait. And keep gettng louder. Eventually she'll just be standing on every elelvated surface shouting, "but Jesus loves Fundie Zoolander and so do Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii" like a toddler with the gimmies.

Josie seems practical, like Alyssa. I think she might wait to marry after Carlin just to not step on her toes. Katie reminds me a little bit of Tori with her sense of humour.

[scoutsadie]

On 3/28/2018 at 12:12 AM, J'Lurker said:

Carlin would never miss the opportunity for #jesuslovesthebridalshop and #jesuslovesthesalesonweddingdecor and #praisejesusweregettingmarriedtoday #jesuslovesnewlyweds 

That's because #jesuslovesthemall.

[Ivycoveredtower]

Kelton went to the park with the Bates clan

 

[TeaELSee]

Previews tonight showed he was going to ask Gil about courtship. Unless there are unforeseen circumstances they will be married in a year.

This looked like a fast relationship and young marriage, like Alyssa’s from the start to me. 

I could be wrong of course since I don’t know these peeps, it’s just a gut feel.

 

[JillyO]

6 hours ago, TeaELSee said:

Previews tonight showed he was going to ask Gil about courtship. Unless there are unforeseen circumstances they will be married in a year.

This looked like a fast relationship and young marriage, like Alyssa’s from the start to me. 

I could be wrong of course since I don’t know these peeps, it’s just a gut feel.

 

They've been together for at least a year now, and as far as we know, they're not engaged. So this is actually on the slower end of fundie relationships. Which is good for MANY reasons, only one of which is her age.

[Joyfully_Unavailable]

5 minutes ago, JillyO said:

They've been together for at least a year now, and as far as we know, they're not engaged. So this is actually on the slower end of fundie relationships. Which is good for MANY reasons, only one of which is her age.

I agree, after the boys' broken courtships it seems Gil and Kelly Jo are a lot more insistent on their kids taking the pre-engagement stage slow and careful to not have any hurt feelings later on down the line. I am glad that Carlin and Josie are taking their time to get to know what is likely their future spouse and not succumbing to the typical fundie timeline. The only potential "issue" I foresee is maybe them slipping up and sharing a pre-marital kiss (the horror), but I think overall they'll be much better prepared for a real, adult relationship.

 

[TeaELSee]

59 minutes ago, JillyO said:

They've been together for at least a year now, and as far as we know, they're not engaged. So this is actually on the slower end of fundie relationships. Which is good for MANY reasons, only one of which is her age.

Technically they started dating/courting (gag) on her 18th birthday. I think she is going to follow the same path as Alyssa and be married before she is 20. 

I don’t think they are engaged, the preview stated he was going to ask about courtship. Once they are engaged they will probably follow the standard 3 month sprint to the altar.

I hope they wait but I think Kelton is considered a good catch to the Bates and they will accommodate this relationship moving full steam ahead.

[Ivycoveredtower]

1 hour ago, JillyO said:

They've been together for at least a year now, and as far as we know, they're not engaged. So this is actually on the slower end of fundie relationships. Which is good for MANY reasons, only one of which is her age.

Since Micheal all the Bates have had slower courtships. heck Carlin and Evan have only been courting less then a year but they've been in a relationship about 2 years now. 

[VBOY9977]

38 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

Since Micheal all the Bates have had slower courtships. heck Carlin and Evan have only been courting less then a year but they've been in a relationship about 2 years now. 

Carlin posted in September that it had been a year since Evan came into her life, so I’m assuming that means she’s talking about when they met. they’ve known each other for a year and a half.

I’m glad they’ve waited quite a while because Carlin’s still so immature to me. And I have the feeling their engagement is coming soon 

[Ivycoveredtower]

4 minutes ago, VBOY9977 said:

Carlin posted in September that it had been a year since Evan came into her life, so I’m assuming that means she’s talking about when they met. they’ve known each other for a year and a half.

I’m glad they’ve waited quite a while because Carlin’s still so immature to me. And I have the feeling their engagement is coming soon 

ah you're right for some reason I was thinking he had came into her life In April around the time of her graduation. not sure how i got that mixed up. 

[JillyO]

9 hours ago, TeaELSee said:

Technically they started dating/courting (gag) on her 18th birthday. I think she is going to follow the same path as Alyssa and be married before she is 20.

That's why I said they've been together (not courting) for over a year. I am aware that they didn't officially start courting until she'd turned 18, but we all know that's just semantics. She was already attending his graduation from PCC in May of last year, and they seemed pretty cozy back then.

Anyway. I agree that she will most likely be married before she turns 20. I am strongly assuming it won't happen before her 19th birthday though. Maybe a late fall/early winter wedding 2018?

[Ivycoveredtower]

clip from tomorrow's episode. Josie Kelton and a cow 

http://uptv.com/bringing-up-bates/bringing-up-bates-getting-cozy-with-the-cows/

 

Kelton talking to Evan and  Judson giving them a hard time. 

http://uptv.com/bringing-up-bates/bringing-up-bates-a-no-go-for-kelton/

[Ivycoveredtower]

from the Ellie blog from tonight's episode. 

Quote

Josie and Kelton have been talking for three years, but when things started getting serious early on, Gil asked Josie if she would be okay with “putting the breaks” on the relationship until she got a little older. They ended up taking a break, but Kelton stuck around, and it has been about a year since they got back together. Gil and Kelly grant their permission for the couple to court.

 

[VBOY9977]

So he started talking to her since she was about 15 and he was 19? Yikes 

I’m glad they’ve waited though, or we could’ve ended up with a 17 year old bride! Which makes me wonder what the Duggars would’ve done in this situation 

[Ivycoveredtower]

1 minute ago, VBOY9977 said:

So he started talking to her since she was about 15 and he was 19? Yikes 

I’m glad they’ve waited though, or we could’ve ended up with a 17 year old bride! Which makes me wonder what the Duggars would’ve done in this situation 

your answer nothing. remember Jim Bob was 19 and Michelle was only 17 when they got married. 

[singsingsing]

Just now, Ivycoveredtower said:

your answer nothing. remember Jim Bob was 19 and Michelle was only 17 when they got married. 

But the question is, would they be okay with their 15 year-old daughter courting a 19-year-old man? If a 19-year-old guy wanted to start 'getting to know' Johannah three years from now, would they give them the green light or would they make them wait? The fact that Michelle started dating Jim Bob around that age doesn't tell us much (Jim Bob is also only two years older than her) - they did a lot of things they won't let their kids do now. I think it's clear that they're totally fine with teenagers courting and getting married, but the youngest courting we've seen so far is 17, and the youngest married have been 19.

[VBOY9977]

4 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

your answer nothing. remember Jim Bob was 19 and Michelle was only 17 when they got married. 

Yeah, I remember. I was just wondering if it might be different with one of their daughters.

I remember when Austin was about to ask JB for permission to court Joy he said JB had previously told him it could be a while before he gave them permission to court. After JB did end up giving them permission, he said Joy could be surprised because she didn’t think it would be happening until later. That means Jim Bob was making them wait a while. 

But at the same time I don’t see the Duggar kids waiting for that long (3 years) to start courtship. So idk, I guess it depends on the circumstances. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

15 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

But the question is, would they be okay with their 15 year-old daughter courting a 19-year-old man? If a 19-year-old guy wanted to start 'getting to know' Johannah three years from now, would they give them the green light or would they make them wait? The fact that Michelle started dating Jim Bob around that age doesn't tell us much (Jim Bob is also only two years older than her) - they did a lot of things they won't let their kids do now. I think it's clear that they're totally fine with teenagers courting and getting married, but the youngest courting we've seen so far is 17, and the youngest married have been 19.

with the Duggar's I think it would depend on the how it would impact the show. Everything they do now is basically to pander to the show. I'm sure they push courtships faster then they would go in normal time to have something for the next season. (If it was still 19 kids I think we'd see a bit slower courtships more like Jessa's but with counting on all it is really is courtship marriage baby repeat they have nothing else they can really show)  So if they thought they wouldn't get much backlash and Johannah was their last hope for that season I say hell yeah they'd allow it. obviously they'd have a lot of backlash or I'd hope so anyway that it might stop them. 

7 minutes ago, VBOY9977 said:

Yeah, I remember. I was just wondering if it might be different with one of their daughters.

I remember when Austin was about to ask JB for permission to court Joy he said JB had previously told him it could be a while before he gave them permission to court. After JB did end up giving them permission, he said Joy could be surprised because she didn’t think it would be happening until later. That means Jim Bob was making them wait a while. 

But at the same time I don’t see the Duggar kids waiting for that long (3 years) to start courtship. So idk, I guess it depends on the circumstances. 

Joy and Austin is interesting He started officially courting her soon after her 19th birthday they got engaged only about four months later . but it seems they were in the "Getting to know you stage about five months after Joy turned 18. when he asks to marry her Jim Bob said it had been about a year since he'd asked to get to know her.

with the Joy and Austin situation I think it had less to do with Joy's age and more to do with 1. Austin not realizing joy liked him. and 2. the fact that Austin had to flip 5 houses before he'd be allowed to marry.  that's to say If a 17 year old Joy had wanted to marry Austin I think Jim Bob would have given his permission though to make it seem better for the show he may have made her wait until she was officially 18

 

[candygirl200413]

I actually thought tonight was the actual courtship episode.

[Ivycoveredtower]

2 minutes ago, candygirl200413 said:

I actually thought tonight was the actual courtship episode.

if they are true with their time line and not fudging anything they officially started to court around January 24th

[Letizia]

Rundown since I watched the actual episode.

-Kelton asked Evan what to expect from  Gil regarding asked for a courtship and Evan actually said it would be Hell. I’m sure pearls clutched across America. He also told Kelton to expect a “no”. Kelton looked “shooketh”. 

- It is my guess that he and Josie discussed using  Kelly to avoid the “no” possibility and it worked. Josie and Kelton said they didn’t want to take the attention away from Tori and Bobby’s wedding but they wanted Gil and Kelly to know they were interested in starting a courtship in January. Kelly dominated the convo to a level that makes me think she was in on it because she was basically addressing everything that could make Gil say no. She referenced that this getting to know each other period had lasted for over a year and she brought up that she was impressed and happy that Kelton waited for Josie after she and Gil asked him and Josie to avoid getting closer until she was older. Kelly rambled more and then said they would support a courtship. The closest they got  to anyone caring what Gil thought was when after offering approval Kel threw in a ,”Right Gil?”. You could tell by his face he knew he was outnumbered so he agreed. 

[formergothardite]

8 hours ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

with the Duggar's I think it would depend on the how it would impact the show. Everything they do now is basically to pander to the show.

Same with the Bates, don't you agree? Their entire life is pandering to the show. I don't think either family would want a public courtship of a 15 year old with a 19 year old because it would reflect poorly on both families. The Bates are more image aware than the Duggars. The Bates do a good job as pretending they aren't part of an insane cult. Having a young teen publicly start a courtship with a legal adult would look super bad. Kelly didn't spend all this time making sure people forgot they are a white supremacist loving, cult loving family to ruin it with a courtship. 

[just_ordinary]

I know it is different as we talk about people living a very different life than most of us, but a 19 year old being interested in a 15 year old is not that uncommon in the real world. Where I am from even a sexual relationship would be legally approved as the older partner is under 21 (consent of both parties provided of course). Statistically  most couples do wait a bit anyway (about a year I think) and with Fundies this is even less a point to even think about. 

The only problems I have is that often those Fundie relationships are presented as if the guy is the one that picks and chooses while the woman sits at home and doesn’t even know he likes her/exists. That is probably not really the case but their narrative is very unhealthy. And there a definitely pairings where I do wonder if one or both partners really had the opportunity to say no.

Furthermore, as soon as they start courting there is no easy way out. And this actually starts with getting to know each other. I have never heard of Fundies getting to know several potential partners before finally entering a courtship.

The crazy ideas about how men and women should act upon courtship (pursuing vs. waiting, letting your headship decide if you court, needing to be a wife and mother to hold worth...) make their situation much worse. 

But I feel slightly uncomfortable when people act as if those young man are somewhat perverts because she was 14/15 when they started to have a more romantic interest. But this is absolutely related to the legal boundaries in my country and what we as a society see as acceptable.

[Ivycoveredtower]

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Same with the Bates, don't you agree? Their entire life is pandering to the show. I don't think either family would want a public courtship of a 15 year old with a 19 year old because it would reflect poorly on both families. The Bates are more image aware than the Duggars. The Bates do a good job as pretending they aren't part of an insane cult. Having a young teen publicly start a courtship with a legal adult would look super bad. Kelly didn't spend all this time making sure people forgot they are a white supremacist loving, cult loving family to ruin it with a courtship. 

oh I do think the Bates Pander to the show also but I think their courtship rules losening have a little less to do with the show, and a little more to do with Zach's failed courtship. Even before the show started when it was Zach, Erin and Alyssa courting it seemed that in some ways they did let them set their own boundaries to some extent.  well even with a broken courtship in their past the Dugger's are going to stick with the same old rules they are going to act like their kids decide but it's all cookie cutter so no they don't. and even if they are pandering to the show in the end the kids benefit from longer courtships well the Duggar's end up married with in a year.  the only duggar that has not followed the short path so far is Jessa. 

[formergothardite]

Do the Bates courtships differ a great deal? It seems like they "date with a purpose", big courtship proposal, chaperoned courtship, UP wedding. 

 I'm curious what the big differences in their courtships are. I haven't kept up with all their courtships. 

6 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

have a little less to do with the show, and a little more to do with Zach's failed courtship.

Zach's failed courtship did send a wake up call to them but that was also right at the point where they started totally rebranding themselves to seem less crazy. They wiped the shrine to racism off their blog, stopped dressing so crazy, stopped mentioning their involvement in the cult, and started using the whole "dating with a purpose" line. I remember Kelly saying(or writing) something about how they were going to be more careful in the future to make sure that there wasn't such a public failed courtship because it was so painful for Zach to go through that, but they clearly didn't keep that standard. UP wants the courtships and they provide that even after they learned how awful it can be for one of their children to go through a failed courtship on television.