Jana 6: What's in Store for 2018?

[StraightOuttaArkansas]

I am a fan of the Jana staying for the kids theory. I like the idea that (possibly) she has the run of the house, I mean JB&M are gone a lot on vacation. That she has like 6 kids that SHE taught to be well behaved and cares for and about them. If I were her I cannot see myself leaving that  for just anyone either. She has gotten through the worst part of it so to say, now that the littlest kids are getting older. She just has to put up with her mom hanging around her house occasionally and tbh if I lived anywhere on the same continent as my mother I am certain that would be a thing (I am secretly thankful that plane tickets are so expensive). I do hope that even if Jana does not have exactly what she wants, that she is at least happy with the way things are right now and holding onto whatever she dreams of for when the time is right.

[veron1que]

On 3/23/2018 at 2:36 PM, singsingsing said:

Right? We've got an entire thread dedicated to Jana, and 95% of it is taken up by speculating about and bemoaning the fact that she's still single. No thread about John, very little speculation. Everyone seems to laugh and give JD virtual high fives for staying single and being a 'bachelor till the rapture' but with Jana it's like some kind of tragedy. Why?

For me the tragedy lies in the fact that in Jana's community she is not an adult until she marries. 

I personally don't spend much time speculating about potential courtships for any of the kids, but I don't judge others for doing. I think there are many of us who hope Jana marries and leaves the cult. Marriage seems to be the only way the Duggar girl achieve any degree of autonomy (to be fair, marriage may just mean she has a new master, but it is the possibility that has me hopeful). 

[SapphireSlytherin]

8 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

And it's totally silly and ridiculous, because my life is fucking awesome, but I always compare myself to other people.

I'm a LOT older than you are (I could be your mom - you are a year or so younger than my daughter.

If I had been able to ACT on these words of wisdom when I was your age, I know I'd have been a much happier person. And I'd still have more $$ in the bank from not buying shit I couldn't afford to impress (or keep up with) people I didn't really like:

COMPARISON IS THE THIEF OF JOY.

And just think - your friends with kids/spouses/big houses may envy YOU - your simpler lifestyle, your lack of kids, etc.

[anjulibai]

I think what concerns me about Jana and makes me wonder if she's single by choice and choosing to stay home with her "kids", is that she herself has expressed a bit of sadness over her situation. Remember when she was asked to give advice to other girls in her situation. She mentioned how hard it was watching her siblings go out and do things because they were married, but she was left at home. I mean, yeah, she's got a friend now, but she was part of a group with her sisters for so long. 

I don't know. She's a mystery for sure and I do hope she's happy. But knowing what we know about the Duggars' culture, I feel for her. 

[CorruptionInc.]

On 25/03/2018 at 9:25 AM, SapphireSlytherin said:

If I had been able to ACT on these words of wisdom when I was your age, I know I'd have been a much happier person. And I'd still have more $$ in the bank from not buying shit I couldn't afford to impress (or keep up with) people I didn't really like:

COMPARISON IS THE THIEF OF JOY.

And just think - your friends with kids/spouses/big houses may envy YOU - your simpler lifestyle, your lack of kids, etc.

I have a woman I have known for many years that is jealous of me (and I still have NO idea why).

She is the youngest daughter of very rich parents (I am the youngest of middle class parents). She has a large two storey house thanks to her parents in law who provided several hundreds of thousands of dollars so they could buy it. She doesn't have to work and gets to stay at home with her cute little bubby!

She got the 4WD etc. etc. before the baby was born (even though her car was smaller but perfectly suitable) given to her by her mum. 

First of all, it would seem all the money in the world doesn't make her happy. 

Then you have me, I live in a share house, work a full time job, another part-time night job, study and I'm still in a bit of $$$ mess (my fault). I very rarely buy new clothes and I bought my car outright nearly two years ago. I did however buy a new outfit for a wedding last week because I had budgeted for it.

She was furious when everyone was complimenting my outfit and if looks could kill... thank the lady in the shop, I had no idea what I wanted and fashion is confusing to me. I was extremely lucky to have a patient lady help me and to find such a lovely and colourful outfit. All UNDER budget too! I treated myself to a chain store lunch. I never get to do that. 

I think what annoys her most is I am the least dramatic person (I have gone through a LOT of bad, but I don't think bringing it up is going to solve a thing) where as she is the most dramatic woman. She is the only one to get married, to have a baby, to study and work at the same time etc. She is loud and obnoxious to try and get attention. I feel sorry for her husband.

So she got drunk at this wedding, flirted openly with the man sitting next to her (that she didn't know) in FRONT of her husband who was on her other side. She also went up to the groom (who married the love of his life who looked AMAZING btw) and fondled his bum and tried to move towards the front. Luckily a friend spotted this and took her away. People dismissed it, but I think what she did is wrong. 

What my point is here, no matter how much money you have a) some people with never be happy and b ) it won't always save you.

Also, I am content with my life, very grateful and I know if I had my time again I wouldn't have done anything differently. People don't care about your house, your car, your weight. They care about who you are as a person. If they care about your material wealth, they are not good people. 

Sorry about the waffles to prove a point. You have now earned a cuppa and bikkie for reading it all.

[Jigsaw3]

@CorruptionInc., the difference is that you have had to work hard for everything you've got, so you appreciate it. She has never (as far as you know) had to work for anything. That brand-new 4WD is normal to her: she doesn't realize how lucky she is that it was a gift, and doesn't represent a year's salary, or four years of saving, or six years of car payments. She doesn't understand how you are so happy when you are not rich. She's jealous of your acceptance of where you are. Your happiness at having a nice dress, under budget, is something she can't understand.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

On why people might choose covenant marriage (other than being holier than thou)... When it was new, the Washington Post ran an article on a couple who had chosen covenant marriage. It turned out that both of them had parents who had divorced multiple times, and so for them it was a statement that they intended to be different, and make an effort to get through the hard times.

[ariel9]

I am also in a similar boat: 27 years old, living on my own, well traveled with a good career, committed relationship with no ring yet. I have reached the point in my summers are filled with weddings. I can’t in good conscience purchase a white sundress because it is a dress with so many marital events. Facebook is filled with announcement of engagements, pregnancies, and wedding photos. These events include some of my close friends. It’s kind of weird to hear fundies say they didn’t think this day will finally come. It makes me also feel like an old lady. I’m like dude what do you mean finally you did no waiting. Or in my teen years blah, you means last week?

 

[Rosalie]

On 24.3.2018 at 1:36 PM, HarleyQuinn said:

Nothing about a covenant marriage sounds appealing. I can't see why anyone would want to get one. (Other than saying look how much more Godly I am than you!)

I totally agree. But aren’t covenant marriage rules quite similar to catholic marriage rules?

 Btw; even in my country, where religion does not play a major role on society, it’s required with a 12 months separation period before one can be legally divorced. And if the couple have underaged children together, family councelling is mandatory before the separstion period can begin. Exceptions reg family counseling for victims of domestic violence or sexual abuse.

[kachuu]

49 minutes ago, Rosalie said:

I totally agree. But aren’t covenant marriage rules quite similar to catholic marriage rules?

 Btw; even in my country, where religion does not play a major role on society, it’s required with a 12 months separation period before one can be legally divorced. And if the couple have underaged children together, family councelling is mandatory before the separstion period can begin. Exceptions reg family counseling for victims of domestic violence or sexual abuse.

I wish the US would do more mandatory things like the highlighted above. I think too many people throw in  the towel without trying. It's so unfortunate to watch kids go through a divorce when the parents make it so dramatic & use the kids as pawns against each other. You rarely hear about amicable splitting. Or "Conscious uncoupling" ...

[HarleyQuinn]

I don't like those additional rules, to be honest. No one should be forced to stay in a marriage because they didn't "try hard enough" according to someone else. 

[acheronbeach]

1 hour ago, Rosalie said:

I totally agree. But aren’t covenant marriage rules quite similar to catholic marriage rules?

 Btw; even in my country, where religion does not play a major role on society, it’s required with a 12 months separation period before one can be legally divorced. And if the couple have underaged children together, family councelling is mandatory before the separstion period can begin. Exceptions reg family counseling for victims of domestic violence or sexual abuse.

How lovely for the abuse victim who's too frightened or ashamed to talk about being abused.  /end sarcasm

[Palimpsest]

3 hours ago, Rosalie said:

I totally agree. But aren’t covenant marriage rules quite similar to catholic marriage rules?

 Btw; even in my country, where religion does not play a major role on society, it’s required with a 12 months separation period before one can be legally divorced. And if the couple have underaged children together, family councelling is mandatory before the separstion period can begin. Exceptions reg family counseling for victims of domestic violence or sexual abuse.

I'm assuming English is probably not your first language, so can you clarify this? 

I think you mean that if people are victims of domestic violence or sexual abuse they are NOT required to attend family counseling.  They are the exceptions.  Yes?

Mandated couple or family counseling for victims of DV or abuse is a really horrible idea. 

[Nargus]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

I'm assuming English is probably not your first language, so can you clarify this? 

I think you mean that if people are victims of domestic violence or sexual abuse they are NOT required to attend family counseling.  They are the exceptions.  Yes?

Mandated couple or family counseling for victims of DV or abuse is a really horrible idea. 

I read the last line as a typo of some kind. So I assumed it was "Mandatory counseling if you have underage children, with exceptions for victims of domestic violence or sexual abuse"

[Rosalie]

15 hours ago, Nargus said:

I read the last line as a typo of some kind. So I assumed it was "Mandatory counseling if you have underage children, with exceptions for victims of domestic violence or sexual abuse"

Yup, that’s what I meant. Thank you for making it easier to understand.

[SweetJuly]

23 hours ago, kachuu said:

I wish the US would do more mandatory things like the highlighted above. I think too many people throw in  the towel without trying. It's so unfortunate to watch kids go through a divorce when the parents make it so dramatic & use the kids as pawns against each other. You rarely hear about amicable splitting. Or "Conscious uncoupling" ...

While I agree that it is always better to seek an amicable, civilised solution when a separation is necessary or considered, I am a bit doubtful that mandatory counselling or the like would be helpful in a situation where a couple doesn't seek it by their own motivation.

You probably mean that it would be helpful if a couple, at least in cases where there is no abuse and children are involved, at least made an attempt to dissolve their marriage amicably and sought professional support if they understandably struggle with it. Definitely. But it should come from the couple themselves, not be forced onto them by law.

[kachuu]

45 minutes ago, SweetJuly said:

While I agree that it is always better to seek an amicable, civilised solution when a separation is necessary or considered, I am a bit doubtful that mandatory counselling or the like would be helpful in a situation where a couple doesn't seek it by their own motivation.

You probably mean that it would be helpful if a couple, at least in cases where there is no abuse and children are involved, at least made an attempt to dissolve their marriage amicably and sought professional support if they understandably struggle with it. Definitely. But it should come from the couple themselves, not be forced onto them by law.

Yes- The original poster's comment said this didn't involve abusive relationships- which i agreed with as well. But i'm not sure people got to the end of her post.

My point is that people don't end their relationships well a lot of the time especially when it involves kids. Even if that counseling was to help with communicating after the divorce, i think that's great & would make a world of difference for the kids involved.

[nausicaa]

5 hours ago, kachuu said:

My point is that people don't end their relationships well a lot of the time especially when it involves kids. Even if that counseling was to help with communicating after the divorce, i think that's great & would make a world of difference for the kids involved.

Yeah, I could be down with that. I don't know think mandatory counseling to try and save a marriage is going to work, but counseling on how to go about divorcing and being divorced in a healthy way, especially with kids involved, seems like it might help. 

I'm watching a co-worker going through a terrible divorce right now with six kids involved, and it's such a nightmare. I can't believe how people just forget about their kids' mental welfare in their desire to get back at their former spouse.

[SweetJuly]

1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

I'm watching a co-worker going through a terrible divorce right now with six kids involved, and it's such a nightmare. I can't believe how people just forget about their kids' mental welfare in their desire to get back at their former spouse.

I can only imagine that there is a lot of resentment and hurt feelings that come out at a time like this. Unfortunately not everyone has the strength to take a step back and consider how their hurt and actions might affect their children.

Much love to your co-worker and her family

[justodd]

On 3/28/2018 at 5:21 AM, kachuu said:

I wish the US would do more mandatory things like the highlighted above. I think too many people throw in  the towel without trying. It's so unfortunate to watch kids go through a divorce when the parents make it so dramatic & use the kids as pawns against each other. You rarely hear about amicable splitting. Or "Conscious uncoupling" ...

Given how difficult obtaining any kind of counseling can be if you don’t have certain financial means, I can not say enough how glad I am that this ISN’T mandatory. My marriage ended very amicably, but I can not even begin to imagine how much more stressful going our separate ways would have been had we been legally obligated to get years worth of counseling before we were allowed to officially call it quits. It would have kept us shackled to a horrible living situation long past the point either of us could have stood it, prevented either of us from finding reasonable employment opportunities (after job hunting for over a year and not even being able to get work at a local sandwich shop, this is NOT an exaggeration), and stuck us in the unwinnable situation of having to figure out how on earth we were going to pay for it without the benefit of any kind of insurance or even two pennies to rub together after our unemployment payments ran out. Because we weren’t shackled to each other with the unreasonable demand that we be forced to spend years articulating to a stranger what we’d already come to understand over the 5-6 years prior, I was able to take a chance and start my life over in a new place with better prospects. It didn’t go as well as I’d hoped, but it was a HUGE step in the right direction. I’m literally sick to my stomach at the thought of how much a mandatory obligation like this could have prevented me from all the progress I’ve made over the last seven years. No one should be forced into something like that. Not ever. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

On 3/28/2018 at 6:21 AM, kachuu said:

I think too many people throw in  the towel without trying.

Unless you are one of the parties divorcing, there is really NO WAY for YOU to know whether they "tried" or not to salvage their marriage. Nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors in someone else's marriage, even if they "hear" parts of the story from one or both spouses. 

[Mama Mia]

On 28/03/2018 at 9:51 PM, kachuu said:

I wish the US would do more mandatory things like the highlighted above. I think too many people throw in  the towel without trying. It's so unfortunate to watch kids go through a divorce when the parents make it so dramatic & use the kids as pawns against each other. You rarely hear about amicable splitting. Or "Conscious uncoupling" ...

I agree. In my state, California, you are required to at least attend a workshop on acting appropriately regarding the children. IIRC , it was free, or very inexpensive. Family counseling provided  for the kids would also be nice.  Having been on both sides of the marriage ending thing- I ageee that a counseling requirement prior to divorce would also be useful. With obvious exceptions in case of danger. Certainly the ability to choose  a covenant marriage contract would be useful. 

 

As as far as the Un-married in their late 20-s - early 30’s discussion - my heart aches for everyone who is made to feel less than or hopeless! I know MANY  people in that age group who aren’t married or have children yet - and at least where I am - No one seems to think it’s “too late. . Having children - with or without a husband- in your 30’s ( and beyond ) is very common.  It’s also very common to have a second ( or third ) set of kids with a new partner at that age, But having a 1st child In your 30’s  Is considered very, very “ normal”. It’s often the goal! Even when I was young a million years ago - I was having my first kids at the same time some of my mom’s friends were having theirs. You obviously don’t need to have a husband or children to be complete - but if you want them, it just seems shocking people would make you feel like crap at such a young age for not having them yet! 

As for Jana, obviously we don’t know, but, IMO, the combination of being very introverted, having a fairly nice life right now, just not wanting to settle for Mr, Wrong — combined with a naturally smaller family by marrying later - all seem like good reasons to be single. 

[NachosFlandersStyle]

On 3/24/2018 at 7:07 AM, Someone Out There said:

You could let her know that you don't have to live together if you are married.  The following are a couple of articles where they aren't:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1251022/The-secret-happy-marriage-Live-door-husband.html

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/23/never-lived-together-married-couples-live-apart

It looks like there are a number of couples around who are married but don't live together.  Then again, she may also not want to marry for other reasons.

I used to have a job where I was traveling like 300 days a year (ever seen the movie Up in the Air? It was like that, except for the part about firing people). And most of my colleagues had pretty messed up personal lives, a lot of divorces, a lot of people like me at the time who weren't in a relationship and had no plans to be in one.  Except this one old dude I worked with who had been doing this for like 30 years and was still married and spoke often about his happy relationship. One time I asked him how on earth he made it work. And he says "are you kidding?! We don't have to share a bathroom! The only time we see each other is when we WANT to see each other, and it's exciting every time!"

As for Jana, if I had such an impressive garden to play around in, I wouldn't be in any hurry to leave!

[Ivycoveredtower]

4 minutes ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

I used to have a job where I was traveling like 300 days a year (ever seen the movie Up in the Air? It was like that, except for the part about firing people). And most of my colleagues had pretty messed up personal lives, a lot of divorces, a lot of people like me at the time who weren't in a relationship and had no plans to be in one.  Except this one old dude I worked with who had been doing this for like 30 years and was still married and spoke often about his happy relationship. One time I asked him how on earth he made it work. And he says "are you kidding?! We don't have to share a bathroom! The only time we see each other is when we WANT to see each other, and it's exciting every time!"

As for Jana, if I had such an impressive garden to play around in, I wouldn't be in any hurry to leave!

I just watched that movie last week. it was way to WTF and depressing for my taste. 

[Jellybean]

5 hours ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

I used to have a job where I was traveling like 300 days a year (ever seen the movie Up in the Air? It was like that, except for the part about firing people). And most of my colleagues had pretty messed up personal lives, a lot of divorces, a lot of people like me at the time who weren't in a relationship and had no plans to be in one.  Except this one old dude I worked with who had been doing this for like 30 years and was still married and spoke often about his happy relationship. One time I asked him how on earth he made it work. And he says "are you kidding?! We don't have to share a bathroom! The only time we see each other is when we WANT to see each other, and it's exciting every time!"

As for Jana, if I had such an impressive garden to play around in, I wouldn't be in any hurry to leave!

That sounds like an astonishingly hard part of the job. My husband travels a bit for work and works long hours but NOTHING like that. I can see how it would be hard to meet someone at all, and then if you did meet someone, to try to nurture a relationship in its early stages while travelling all over the place.

I can definitely see your former colleague’s point, but it must take a certain amount of work in itself, to make sure it really is fun every time they see each other. Although Husbean and I see each other most days, it makes me want to work on having even more of that kind of attitude. It’s easy to get caught up in the mundane and forget to enjoy the company at the same time.