Seewalds 25: Jessa is allowing Spurgeon to "jump for joy", er, dance

[Dutchie]

On 10-9-2017 at 9:51 AM, JillyO said:

(bolding mine)

Okay, hold your horses. Criticizing Jessa for the fact that Spurgeon still has a bottle is ridiculous mom-shaming. Criticizing fundies for neglecting their children's safety with regards to car seats is absolutely appropriate. You wanna know who didn't grow up to become functioning adults? The kids who died in traffic accidents because they were not in proper car seats. So fuck that stupid "argument."

I understand where you are coming from, but my point goes mainly too the histeria for the fact they for example put them in car seats with for example a winter coat on (OMG). I do the same the ride is 5 min. and the car won't warm up in time. Yes I am a horrible mother, and I accept that, I understand and take the risk, yes also for my kid. Let alone the respons to the bottle, my kid took one to bed well after his 3rd birthday, once again I accept the horrific consequences for my tri lenguale kid. 

[AtlanticTug]

3 minutes ago, Dutchie said:

I understand where you are coming from, but my point goes mainly too the histeria for the fact they for example put them in car seats with for example a winter coat on (OMG). I do the same the ride is 5 min. and the car won't warm up in time. Yes I am a horrible mother, and I accept that, I understand and take the risk, yes also for my kid. Let alone the respons to the bottle, my kid took one to bed well after his 3rd birthday, once again I accept the horrific consequences for my tri lenguale kid. 

The jacket thing is so hard and annoying in winter if you live somewhere where the temperatures can be -20/-30 for like a couple of months. It's one thing when you have a baby in a bucket seat that you can cover inside with a car seat  cover and put in the car, but carrying a 2 or 3 year old in NO warm, bulk clothes, outdoors, into a freezing ass car and putting him in and then throwing some blankets on top...ok yeah. It's the safest but I'm like you, for daycare drop offs which for me is a 3 minute drive, he goes in his jacket. For anything longer than that, my husband and I take him together and then I can run out and pre-warm the car. Truthfully I don't know a single other person in this area who doesn't do the same. Oh well.

[Fluffy14]

I could care less if Jessa still gives a bottle. What I hate looking at is a toddler running around with an empty bottle dangling from his teeth. If the bottle is finished remove it. Or give the kid a nummy if he wants something in his mouth. 

The other thing that is just weird to me is Spurgeon is dressed like a Harvard Student from the turn of the century with a bottle dangling out of his mouth. 

It reminds me of that song from Sesame Street.......One of these things is not like the others.

[JillyO]

2 hours ago, ThunderRolls said:

You're right, accidents happen that are innocent on the part of the parents. I will say, when a mother thinks dunking her baby's arm in breast milk is going to heal it, then yes, I'm going to question her judgement. 

Fair enough. I was more responding to the "how does a baby even have a broken arm?" comments, but I guess I quoted the wrong person. Sorry! Dunking a baby's broken arm in breast milk to heal it is definitely screwed up.

[ThunderRolls]

3 minutes ago, JillyO said:

Fair enough. I was more responding to the "how does a baby even have a broken arm?" comments, but I guess I quoted the wrong person. Sorry! Dunking a baby's broken arm in breast milk to heal it is definitely screwed up.

No apologies necessary. I don't think you quoted the wrong person as I also wondered why the baby had a broken arm, but it was within the context of the mother having some lousy judgement.  

[Chickenbutt]

@JillyOI think you were maybe wanting to quote me. My comment about a baby with a broken arm, was a baby. Maybe I should have said infant. A inquisitive 15 month old I can understand. They are little daredevils. An infant, IMO, is a different story. 

[crazysnark]

Well I finally have some evidence that Jessa blanket trains Spurgeon. On TLC website the latest clip shows her doing it. It's called Not So Friendly Skies

[ThunderRolls]

5 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

Well I finally have some evidence that Jessa blanket trains Spurgeon. On TLC website the latest clip shows her doing it. It's called Not So Friendly Skies

I just watched the clip, and the only thing I saw Jessa do was put a blanket on the floor of the airplane so Spurgeon wasn't directly on the nasty plane carpet. If she smacked him when he tried to get off the blanket, well that's blanket training - I didn't see that from that clip, though. I wouldn't be shocked if Jessa employs the same disclinpine methods her parents used, but I just didn't see it in this clip. 

[crazysnark]

Just now, ThunderRolls said:

I just watched the clip, and the only thing I saw Jessa do was put a blanket on the floor of the airplane so Spurgeon wasn't directly on the nasty plane carpet. If she smacked him when he tried to get off the blanket, well that's blanket training - I didn't see that from that clip, though. I wouldn't be shocked if Jessa employs the same disclinpine methods her parents used, but I just didn't see it in this clip. 

Well they would never air that. The reason she got the blanket out IMO is so he would calm down and stop moving so much. If you put a "normal" 18 month old on a blanket on the floor he is most likely going to move around more or make a dash to the aisle. I could be wrong tho. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

11 hours ago, seraaa said:

I prefer a tattie scone* to a hashbrown, and will go for that if there's an option, but hash browns are also good!

 

*not actually a scone

I had one bite of a tattie scone this morning. I am not a fan. Lol

 

3 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

My pet hate is people who do that and put sugary juice in bottles. One time while I was working in KFC, I watched a woman put Pepsi in her child's bottle he was about a year old. I had to walk away because I was tempted to say something. 

I grew up with Pepsi and sweet tea in my baby bottles. 

[AtlanticTug]

I get the opposite - people rolling their eyes at me when I tell them my 2-year-old doesn't have any juice, just water or milk. My in-laws are like borderline rolling their eyes.

But the truth is, he loves drinking water and has never asked for juice so why would I bother? I am diabetic and so we keep no juice in the house ever, for any reason. I'd have to go out and buy it specifically for him and why would I do that if he's fine with water?

I figure once he goes off to school and sees what the other kids are having, he can have it but the notion that I have to introduce it now or I'm being some sort of crazy unreasonable parent is kind of weird too.

[Bad Wolf]

Wasn't it weird drinking something carbonated out of a baby bottle?

[feministxtian]

I gave my older son watered down pepsi in his bottle a few times...mostly so he'd end up running himself stupid and finally go the hell to sleep. My kids had bottles until they were probably close to 3...they didn't have those cute sippy cups back in the dark ages and I really didn't want to deal with cleaning up spills all damn day. 

I find it interesting how things change over the years with child rearing...when I was a baby (the 60's) most of the safety shit was not done. When I had my kids, I didn't babyproof. Forget that shit. They learned what not to touch. Car seats were just becoming common (oldest born in 1982). Bottles got used until they were old enough to make their own damn pb&j and pour their own damn glass of milk. My grandmother fed my oldest sauerkraut and spatzle when she was about 6 weeks old. Yeah, kid ate it and it didn't hurt her. #1 son got fruits, veggies and cereal by the time he was 2 months old...that kid was HUNGRY! #3 kid was a royal pain in the ass when it came to food so mama it was, and yes, he had bottles until he was 3 too. 

So...remember, things were real different years ago...and the great number of babies survived into adulthood. Admittedly some of us ended up batshit fucking crazy (me) but we're alive. 

PS...I never knew there were recipes for biscuits and gravy...

[Rachel333]

It's interesting that even among the relatively small group of FJ members on this thread, there are several people who have experienced lactation consultants urging them to breastfeed even at the expense of their baby's health. I do think that the "lactivists" have good intentions, but that a lot of them have seriously lost sight of their goal.

I read a story earlier this year from a mom whose baby died because she was told to keep breastfeeding even though she wasn't producing enough milk. It's incredibly sad.

[2manyKidzzz]

@Rachel333 Yes, when people are zealots about anything.....it can cause harm. 

Just like DWreck and JillyMuffin and other Duggars. It is important to assess a situation and make decisions based on the real life situation, not some zealously held ideology. 

 

[AtlanticTug]

16 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

It's interesting that even among the relatively small group of FJ members on this thread, there are several people who have experienced lactation consultants urging them to breastfeed even at the expense of their baby's health. I do think that the "lactivists" have good intentions, but that a lot of them have seriously lost sight of their goal.

Lactation consultants in conjunction with a hospital participating in the "baby friendly" breastfeeding initiative resulted in my son becoming severely hypoglycemic, dehydrated and jaundiced. He had to spend an additional 3 days in the hospital just to get him back on track. I was not given access to formula for 40 hours...I actually did have a great supply but he did NOT latch no matter what. Their thinking was he would "figure it out" and under the baby friendly initiative they are not allowed to give you formula except for medically valid reasons, i.e. a doctor's orders. A nurse cannot just sign out a bottle and give it to you and I didn't think to bring any with me as it was my first baby, I figured breastfeeding would be easy. It was really appalling, I didn't even realize it until months after discharge that they basically starved my child and put him in a medically dangerous situation. Worse yet, to do it to a child of a diabetic mother who is at a very high risk of hypoglycemia is unforgivable. Even when they finally gave him formula at the 40 hour mark (he had lost 7% of his body weight and he was a big boy of 9lb 4oz), they would not give us a nipple for the bottle, instead they poured it in a cup and literally poured it down his throat. I remember this newborn babe being held up by the nurse and hungrily drinking while formula poured all down his little face and chest. But no nipple, because they said he'd get nipple confusion and wouldn't take to the breast.

It was traumatizing, not so much at the time when I had no clue what was really going on, but in retrospect. This breast is best campaign has gone TOO FAR. By the way, I had a c-section and took no drugs afterwards except Tylenol and Advil as the lactation consultants insisted that narcotics would further complicate breastfeeding matters by making my baby (who wasn't latching, hello) sleepy and latch even worse. So yeah, I had to be like Rambo in their eyes.

Needless to say I'm bringing formula and bottles with me when I have #2 in a few months. They can all take a hike. We can work on breastfeeding when we are home, but no chance are they starving another child of mine ever again.

[VelociRapture]

I had a 34 weeker last December. No idea why I went into labor early and we likely never will. We're lucky she was born healthy - only 5 pounds, but she was a tough little peanut from the start.

I tried breastfeeding and was able to, but stopped when she hit three months because I hated it and we never got the hang of it. I figured at that point she was a month past the first big round of vaccinations and was going to be fine immunity wise. She was a bottle baby from the very start, so that may have played a role. Velocibaby was on high calorie preemie formula for six months and then switched to regular infant formula because she was doing so well. Now she's nine months and in the 98th and 95th percentiles for her adjusted age for length and weight. She was genetically going to be a big kid and the formula helped her catch up to where she should be. 

She gets three bottles now - one with breakfast, one with dinner, and one before she goes to bed (or in the afternoon, depending on when she gets hungry.) At lunchtime, she gets a few ounces in a cup and I use a straw to transfer it to her mouth - you just cut a disposable bendy straw short and use your finger to cover one end and keep the formula in the straw. Then you release the formula into baby's mouth. It takes longer and can be messy, but she's slowly grasping the idea behind sucking the formula up. So I'm hoping she'll be ready to use the straw on her own soon and that she can stop using bottles entirely after that.

I sometimes feel sad and guilty I didn't stick with breastfeeding longer. I'm really hoping it'll be different with our eventual second child, but I think I'll just be happy if I finally manage to carry to term. I don't have a great track record with that though, so I'll be planning on delivering early again and having another NICU stay out of an abundance of caution. 

ETA: As for lactation consultants, the one at the hospital was fantastic. She knew our baby was a preemie in NICU and was fully supportive of baby being fed formula from a bottle. She told me pumping was a perfectly fine alternative if that's what made me most comfortable and that's what I mainly did - I felt better seeing exactly how many ounces she was taking.  

I wish all consultants were like her. There are too many out there, as evidenced by this thread, who are so invested in exclusive breastfeeding that they put babies and moms at risk. I think they mean well, but a healthy child and healthy mother is far more important than the amount of time you breastfed. 

[2manyKidzzz]

@AtlanticTug Your experience with your firstborn sounds awful. I am glad your child was okay. This is what I have always disliked about breastfeeding nuts and zealots in general. 

[jacduggar]

1 hour ago, crazysnark said:

Well I finally have some evidence that Jessa blanket trains Spurgeon. On TLC website the latest clip shows her doing it. It's called Not So Friendly Skies

That didn't look anything like blanket training to me. In fact it looked like the exact opposite, he was doing everything he could to run off that blanket. If they were blanket training him he wouldn't do that. 

[ThunderRolls]

@crazysnark - maybe I'm giving Jessa too much credit, but I don't think she would smack her child in front of other people or in front of cameras (if she smacks him at all). To me, the blanket just looked like she was trying to create a clean play area for Spurgeon with the small amount of items she had to preoccupy him with - she had some toy cars on there.  I'm not trying to be contrarian, crazysnark, I just didn't see anything nefarious or weird about that clip. 

[Stormy]

In all my time reading conversations on breastfeeding on FJ, I'm surprised to have never seen an account of bloody nipples. My mom attests that I hated breastfeeding as a baby, and I evidently made it known. Ouch!

[frugalitymom]

Just because someone uses a baby blanket doesn't mean they are blanket training.  I would put a blanket down for a clean area with toys sometimes my kids stayed and sometimes they didn't and it wasn't a big deal and Jessa might have the same attitude of well I tried but who cares if they get off.  It could also be her thinking if I don't put a blanket down then someone will critize me for that.

[Nikedagain?]

47 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Wasn't it weird drinking something carbonated out of a baby bottle?

I had an kindergarten student with no teeth. They were all pulled at age 3 because his parents gave him soda in a bottle. 

[ThunderRolls]

 

13 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

Lactation consultants in conjunction with a hospital participating in the "baby friendly" breastfeeding initiative resulted in my son becoming severely hypoglycemic, dehydrated and jaundiced.

I'm so sorry you went through that! I keep hearing more and more stories like yours, and it's really disturbing to say the least. Being a first time mom too, you're pretty vulnerable to not really knowing what's best for you and your baby and how to advocate for it (not to mention being completely exhausted and slightly overwhelmed).  I gave birth at a baby-friendly hospital, too, and while the lactation consultants were very patient and always available, I now question some of the information they gave me. I hope you have a better experience with #2! 

[Rachel333]

@AtlanticTug I am so sorry you experienced that! I've heard a lot of negative things like that about "baby friendly" hospitals. I also read a thread once where nurses who work at those hospitals were discussing what they were like and apparently one of the first things the people from that initiative do when a hospital becomes "baby friendly" is get rid of all the "It's a boy/girl!" balloons with bottles on them. That just seems like such a silly thing to worry about!