Seewalds 25: Jessa is allowing Spurgeon to "jump for joy", er, dance

[samurai_sarah]

Carry on from here:

 

 

[nst]

so I saw the video and i was surprised that she actually posted it. 

Again maybe she is changing her views....hmm doubt it 

[Carm_88]

Just now, nst said:

so I saw the video and i was surprised that she actually posted it. 

Again maybe she is changing her views....hmm doubt it 

Hard to say what is going on. I wonder if she would be as ok with it, if he weren't a toddler. Like when he's 8, will he be able to dance? 

[SassyPants]

Attention- she wants attention. Damn Dullards are getting attention, albeit negative attention,  and Ginger is wearing pants and shorts, damn her too. Jessa Blessa wants people talking about her too. 

[SorenaJ]

Spurgeon is the cutest little boy. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Spurgy is the kind of cutie pie that makes my drying up ovaries  scream WAIIIIIIIT maybe one more?  HAHAHAHA!

[Glasgowghirl]

Jessa may have felt growing up the no dance rule was dumb and has decided that her kids don't need to follow it. Michelle was a cheer leader but her kids could dance along to a toy in a shop.

[Queen]

In the last thread someone scolded Michelle on being a neglectful mother. Yes, she is, but JB is a neglectful parent too! If you are two people having kids together, the responsibility should be 50/50 (unless one of you is severely ill or something). 

CreepyBob might have a slightly better connection with some of his kids, but do you think he has ever stayed up at night? Changed diapers? Cleaned up after them? Made food? Fed them or clothed them? Been there for them when they were sick? I don't know, but I doubt it. 

I know their patriarchal culture tells him not to care for his own kids, that it's a wimmenz job, but it's no real excuse. When we rightfully critisize J'Uterus for handing over all the child raising to her oldest kids, we should also critisize the only other responsible adult in that home, the father, for that. They are just as much his responsibility to raise.

[calimojo]

Normally I would agree with you @Queen, but as soon as Michelle agreed to be a part of a patriarchal society,  she agreed to take on the lion's share of the responsibilities for child-rearing.  JB didn't force Michelle into this mess.   And, we have seen JB hold a child, and comfort a child now and then.  He did make them that horrifying tuna with barbecue sauce meal when Michelle was with Josie.  And I bet he can order pizza or other take out food just fine. 

I think JB is a better parent to some of their kids.  I suspect he strongly plays favorites.   I think JB is a terrible actor so when he shows some emotions on the show, I tend to believe they are more genuine, because he is so incredibly obvious when he is trying to act a scene. But neither of them deserves parent of the year. 

 

[PainfullyAware]

@calimojo I agree Michelle knew full well that joining a patriarchal cult meant accepting all the reproductive labour herself. And I think it's worth discussing how they do things within those norms they set for themselves. So Michelle's sister mom solution was obviously unfair to her daughters and there were likely better ways to buddy up the kids while not delegating parental responsibility. 

But I also agree with @Queen that if we're discussing absolute responsibility for the welfare of the kids (like the josh stuff or their psychological wellbeing) then JB is equally culpable. Because outside the norms of the cult gender roles should aspire to equal standards of work. 

So you're both right in my opinion

[JordynDarby5]

3 hours ago, PainfullyAware said:

@calimojo I agree Michelle knew full well that joining a patriarchal cult meant accepting all the reproductive labour herself. And I think it's worth discussing how they do things within those norms they set for themselves. So Michelle's sister mom solution was obviously unfair to her daughters and there were likely better ways to buddy up the kids while not delegating parental responsibility. 

But I also agree with @Queen that if we're discussing absolute responsibility for the welfare of the kids (like the josh stuff or their psychological wellbeing) then JB is equally culpable. Because outside the norms of the cult gender roles should aspire to equal standards of work. 

So you're both right in my opinion

Yes, both are culpable. Both JimBob and Michelle chose this life, they chose to force their daughters to do everything after Michelle had a breakdown instead of stopping with the kids they have. They chose to blanket train their children, deny them a real education, and everything else. Both grew up in relatively normal families. Michelle was a cheerleader and had friends she chose to make sure none of her daughters became cheerleaders. JimBob has chosen to make sure none of his sons can beat him at anything. They chose how they handled their eldest son molesting his sisters. They chose not get him help while holding him up as a good example to everyone. They chose not to get help for their daughters. It didn't bother JimBob or Michelle that Jackson ran to Jana for comfort after he got lost. They care about the Miracle Child, when they want too. But had no problem leaving her in the hands of teenagers. Neither should be let off the hook.  They both chose this life and both chose and continue to chose to do nothing to raise their children. 

[nastyhobbitses]

33 minutes ago, JordynDarby5 said:

It didn't bother JimBob or Michelle that Jackson ran to Jana for comfort after he got lost.

They also chose to let an extremely sheltered three-year-old go to find a bathroom by himself in a busy airport.

Not once have I seen any evidence that Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar give a fuck about their kids unless it's for a photo op or segment on the show.

[BabyBottlePop]

1 hour ago, nastyhobbitses said:

They also chose to let an extremely sheltered three-year-old go to find a bathroom by himself in a busy airport.

Not once have I seen any evidence that Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar give a fuck about their kids unless it's for a photo op or segment on the show.

Considering that nasty robocall Michelle did, this is telling about how much they do not care. 

[nst]

I think JB and Michelle were into each other all the time procreating.  I think JB"s meetings with the entire broods were his family times and of course when he was on camera. 

they don't fool anyone 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

6 minutes ago, nst said:

they don't fool anyone 

Sadly I think they fool A LOT of people, a lot of really stupid people.

[Carm_88]

25 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Sadly I think they fool A LOT of people, a lot of really stupid people.

They do. They have a lot of people believing that they are following the right path. They truly think that JB and Michelle parent their kids and refuse to see that they forced their daughters to do so. Just because they don't fool us, doesn't mean they don't have tons of rabid humpers. That's why they are still on tv. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

6 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

They also chose to let an extremely sheltered three-year-old go to find a bathroom by himself in a busy airport.

(snipped)

True, but even more hands-on parents can have a kid slip away to the bathroom. My earliest memory (that can be verified by other people and pinned down to a date) is of getting lost on the way back from an outhouse at church camp. I was 3 years old. I'm pretty sure my parents didn't routinely let me wander around alone, so I probably just slipped out when they weren't looking. 

The funny thing is, I wasn't actually lost, I just couldn't see the dining hall from one part of the trail, so I got mixed up which way to go. In my case, no harm no foul. JB and DQ may be far too uninvolved with raising their kids, but even good parents have scary stuff happen from time to time.

[Bad Wolf]

We lost our son once when we were camping, had to get the sheriff, and our grandson at Disneyland. It happens. Turn your back, get distracted, and they're gone. What struck me was that Jackson went to Jana for comfort, not his mom.

[jacduggar]

7 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Not once have I seen any evidence that Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar give a fuck about their kids unless it's for a photo op or segment on the show.

Toward the end of 19KAC I think Michelle was making small attempts at having actual relationships with her older kids as they were marrying and leaving, but too little too late. I can tell the older girls don't really want a friendly relationship with her, probably because of how awful he was for the first 20+/- years of their lives. 

 

On another note, Spurgeon is just an adorable little guy. It's a shame about the hateful religion and all that because Jessa actually seems like a decent parent outside of all of that nonsense. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

19 hours ago, jacduggar said:

Toward the end of 19KAC I think Michelle was making small attempts at having actual relationships with her older kids as they were marrying and leaving, but too little too late. I can tell the older girls don't really want a friendly relationship with her, probably because of how awful he was for the first 20+/- years of their lives. 

 

I can understand this, my mother was/is very much the same she was more interested in telling me HOW my life was going to be rather than caring anything about me (or my siblings). It wasn't until after my father filed for divorce that she seemed interested in us, and mostly because she's worried she'll have no one to care for her when she gets old, and you know what, she's right. None of us give much of a rats ass about what happens to her.  She was mean, hateful and controlling caring more about what her clean house and the things we had.  I can see it in Jessa already while she's always at TTH, it is more for the company and sister moms than her mom & dad.  

These two have enough kids and I'm sure 5 or 6 of them will, out of obligation, be there to care of them. They will, always be fine.

[PainfullyAware]

The thing I find strange through is that none of the older kids acts like they would if they disliked their parents - rebellion and questioning their lifestyle at one end of the spectrum to leaving and cleaving but nominally staying within the cult on the other (ok so maybe Jinger). They act awkward with Michelle but write gushing tributes on mother's day. Of course it could be performative but why pattern their lives after her then? The creepy husband stare, the constant pregnancies, etc., To me they act like she is a distant but respected figure not a hated toxic parent. The indoctrination was thoroughly done.

[BabyBottlePop]

1 hour ago, PainfullyAware said:

Of course it could be performative but why pattern their lives after her then? The creepy husband stare, the constant pregnancies, etc., To me they act like she is a distant but respected figure not a hated toxic parent. The indoctrination was thoroughly done.

True. That's why I'll be interested to see what the younger girls (Jennifer, Hannie, Jordyn) will be like. Being raised by their sisters and getting ignored because of the presence of Miracle Josie.... In my opinion, they might be less indoctrinated. 

Interestingly I think Josie might follow the same path as her older sisters since JB and Michelle actually interact with her somewhat. 

By the way, I know someone might respond with, "Joy was raised by Jill and she's still drunk on the kool-aid". To that I say Jill is (or was at the time) the most believing and trusting of the kids when it came to following Gotherd's way. Also Joy is still up there in child count. 

[imokit]

With the lost girls, I think its going to depend on their sister mums and what they do (both in terms of fertility and in terms of making an ongoing effort with them despite marriage and babies).   I think the J'Slaves & Joy are going to have more of an influence on them over Michelle.

Jenny had Jill & Joy and so may well have the extra tie to stay in (plus Jill & Joy seem the most dedicated to being martyrs for faith).

Hannie is currently being/has been broken but I think was Jana's buddy pre Josie.  She may be influenced by Jana's waiting for Mr Right or want out and via easiest route possible which is marriage & babies.

Jordyn - no idea what her relationship with Jessa is like or if Jessa will continue to blissfully have babies every 18months without a breakdown.

Plus we don't know what will happen between now & 7 years when Hannie is old enough to court.  Will the gravy train run out  and have siblings in proper no plumbing poverty?  Will Josh&Anna /Jill&D /someone else's marriage implode?  Will Jinger start openly using birth control?  Any number of things could happen to influence the decisions of the little ones before they grow up.

Personally I'd be surprised if one of them did tread off the expected path, at least slightly.

[LawsonBatesEgo]

Every time I see a video of Spurgeon, I have to close my eyes and think of toddler meltdowns and smelly diapers and never sleeping in for a few years to talk my ovaries down from wanting a kid lol. 

The 'cute kid, shame about the cult' label definitely applies to him. 

[Markie]

It would be nice for Jessa and Ben to take a bit of a break (3 years) then have another two kids close together. It would be nice for the boys, too. I don't see it happening, but it could...