Seewalds 25: Jessa is allowing Spurgeon to "jump for joy", er, dance

[Chewing Gum]

10 hours ago, KnittingOwl said:

Liking for the same reason.  I totally get it.  I had colostrum, and a tiny bit of milk (like I could pump 20 minutes instead of nursing and get an ounce).  I am currently pregnant with baby 2 and I'm just planning to bottle feed.  If by some miracle I can breastfeed, great, but I'm not expecting anything to be different.  And I refuse to let anyone make me feel bad about it.

That was my attitude too when I was pregnant with #3,4,5 (all miscarried). Good luck! 

On the plus side, I have amazing ferm boobs that never change sizes since they never really reacted to all those hormones (not even when I did lactate, they stayed the same size). Silver lining I guess. 

[Jenn The Heathen]

5 hours ago, subsaharanafrica said:

<snip>

She said she was going to mark me down as both combo and formula because if I was entered into the system as breastfeeding only I wouldn't have been able to get formula at all. 

Are you kidding me?  If my hospital had been baby friendly and asked me that the first time around, I would have said breast only because I was naive and idealistic and expected everything to work out.  So what would have happened to my son?  Would he have ended up in the NICU with severe dehydration?  That's just irresponsible.

I have to say, the nurses at the hospital I gave birth at were amazingly supportive when it came to struggling to breast feed and when it came time to decide to put my oldest on formula, my nurse held my hand while I had a good cry about it.  The lactation consultant was crap.  Came in for 5 minutes, would get him latched and then leave.  Then he'd unlatch and I couldn't get him back on so I'd page the nurse to get the LC and she wouldn't come back forever.

[Aggie2145]

4 hours ago, Jenn The Heathen said:

Are you kidding me?  If my hospital had been baby friendly and asked me that the first time around, I would have said breast only because I was naive and idealistic and expected everything to work out.  So what would have happened to my son?  Would he have ended up in the NICU with severe dehydration?  That's just irresponsible.

I have to say, the nurses at the hospital I gave birth at were amazingly supportive when it came to struggling to breast feed and when it came time to decide to put my oldest on formula, my nurse held my hand while I had a good cry about it.  The lactation consultant was crap.  Came in for 5 minutes, would get him latched and then leave.  Then he'd unlatch and I couldn't get him back on so I'd page the nurse to get the LC and she wouldn't come back forever.

I have a problem over packing on vacation and it only multiplied when I had my son.  I packed ALL THE THINGS including my breast pump,  bottles and two different types of Similac newborn bottles. My feeding plan was to be prepared for all contingencies and I left the hospital with TONS of formula samples. 

I applaud the moms who can breastfeed exclusively - it was not in the cards for us.  But I had great success in pumping and supplementing with formula when needed (or formula exclusively if I needed a cocktail

[Bad Wolf]

Wolf girl was born 40 years ago, emergency c section. I said I wanted to bf, and back then they would give you the shot to dry you up after a c section. I had great nurses who helped me position myself comfortably, and away we went. Bf for 10 months. Wolf boy was born 4 years later, repeat c section. Managed 9 months with him. He wanted to look around too much. No problem with the occasional formula supplement. No lactation consultants back then. Do what works, and don't listen to anyone who tries to shame you.

[justoneoftwo]

BF seems to be something people can be fanatics about.  With all the bad experiences being mentioned I wanted to just throw out my good one, as its not all bad.  

I exclusively BFed LO for 4 months, then we did baby led weaning and at 17 months he still nurses/has a bottle 3 times a day or more.  I was a bit overwhelmed at the birth but I think we told them what we wanted and could have had formula if we wanted it, I don't know.  My doctor is not terribly pro BF, he keeps saying to push the solids but "would never tell a mother to stop."  My OB is rather anti BF actually, he thinks the biggest difference it makes is increasing PPD.  I am also on a Facebook BF group, which is super supportive and thinks fed is best, but breast is ideal if you can/want to.  They have said to put breast milk on an older toddler's broken arm or on mom's gallbladder pre surgery, but its a joke, it gets old because it is always said.  I suppose someone could read it and think they were crazy and meant it, but they don't.  

It makes me sad for humanity that humans can't seem to do much of anything without creating fanatics about it.   

[Nikedagain?]

My experience was a bit different. I ended up having a 10 pound baby during a significant weather event. We were without power for weeks.  A resident delivered my baby, because my doctor and his partners were unable to get to the hospital. The resident pediatrician who attended my c section was just so awesome, I was impressed with him, completely enamored! sooooo, we became his first patient when he started his private practice in the weeks that followed. He was very radical about certain things. One of them was ebf'ing for the first year. I ended up not giving my daughter anything else for a solid year. No juice, cereal, water, NOTHING. And she was a big fat fatty. I was eating and drinking non stop, but couldn't gain weight, always tired. I never slept, she wouldn't take a bottle, so lots of crying when I was not home. I was a human pacifier all night long. Those days are just a blur for me. I was a young, single mom. Very impressionable. My daughter is grown now, she was and is always healthy and brilliant. But veryyyy attached to mommy for about 16 years (lol) and a very picky eater.  I'm exhausted remembering...

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

15 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

By the way for everyone that wasn't watching this lovely show; Spurgeon pitched his bottle at a duck. I'm going with not blanket training. lol

Not only that but Ben & Jessa just laughed. Because lets face it that little duck terrorist is cute as can be.

[Satan'sFortress]

I am so sad at all the negative experiences FJers have had with breastfeeding and with bad perceptions of lactation consultants, baby friendly hospitals, and BF "fanatics."  I am sorry for anyone who was treated unkindly or who felt that their or their baby's health was put into jeopardy. 

I had two really good experiences and am grateful that I didn't have too many problems. I went back to work with #1 and pumped.  Couple of hiccups and mastitis with both little Fortresses.  But overall, it was good.  Both nursed til around age 2.

I ended up becoming a BF peer counselor (not a lactation consultant.) We helped moms who wanted to breastfeed, but we were never pushy!  If someone wanted to wean, supplement, pump exclusively, whatever, we helped.  It was like a telephone hotline.  Sometimes we helped with just general mommy support, too.  No judgement ever.  At least, I wasn't judging their choices---I hope that they didn't feel I was!

I wanted to BF for a bunch of reasons, not the least of which was the cost of formula and the fact that I thought it was easier (after a learning curve) and I am godawful lazy.  Also, my MIL said I couldn't, which pretty much sealed the deal.  I had my kids in the late 90s, early 2000s. It sounds like things have changed since then.  I was ridiculed for exclusively BF, and for BF as long as I did.  As well as giving birth at a birth center, but that's  a topic for another day. The baby friendly hospitals weren't a thing yet--not where I lived.  Sounds like the concept may have produced some unintended consequences.

Anyway, whatever mamas need to do is what mamas need to do! I have real sympathy for any of you who felt judged. 

 

[fluffernutter]

I got the feeling from the show last night that maybe? possibly? wishful thinking? Ben and Jessa feel like their hands are full at the moment. Maybe with her being close with Jinger she will start to see that limiting family size isn't this monumental sin her parents make it out to be. One can dream, anyway. I was happy to see the kids melting down and them rolling with the punches. Hopefully they are raising their kids in a much more loving and gentle way.

[NotQuiteMotY]

On 9/11/2017 at 0:35 AM, Jenn The Heathen said:

@Rachel333 I honestly think those claims about IQ and eczema and everything else breast feeding is supposed to make your child better at/ resistant to, etc were made up to guilt mothers into stopping use of formula. 

I think the immunity might have some impact, as well as the allergen thing, but I believe the IQ thing was debunked or at least another study found that that result wasn't repeated.

And frankly, a tendency is not a guarantee. My two siblings and I were all breastfed. Two of us took breast milk or formula, whichever, without problems; one insisted on breast milk only. Guess which one had more issues with allergies and ear infections as a child?

On 9/11/2017 at 3:04 PM, VelociRapture said:

I sometimes feel sad and guilty I didn't stick with breastfeeding longer. 

Don't. Well, I mean, your emotions, go ahead and feel that way if you want or need to, but. You gave it a good shot and made a decision that worked for everyone. That's about the best you can do.

10 hours ago, justoneoftwo said:

My OB is rather anti BF actually, he thinks the biggest difference it makes is increasing PPD. 

Interesting. I had a round with PPD after Little NQ was born. Even with an antidepressant, I still didn't feel "normal" until after he weaned, and I've thought that in my case at least the two were probably linked. I wonder how often your OB sees it happen?

[Snarkylark]

10 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Not only that but Ben & Jessa just laughed. Because lets face it that little duck terrorist is cute as can be.

It was so funny! Earlier in the day Jeremy had asked Spurgeon if he was feeding the ducks. My guess is he thought if he could feed the ducks why not throw them his bottle too? Little smarty! Lol

[Chewing Gum]

4 hours ago, fluffernutter said:

I got the feeling from the show last night that maybe? possibly? wishful thinking? Ben and Jessa feel like their hands are full at the moment. Maybe with her being close with Jinger she will start to see that limiting family size isn't this monumental sin her parents make it out to be. One can dream, anyway. I was happy to see the kids melting down and them rolling with the punches. Hopefully they are raising their kids in a much more loving and gentle way.

My thoughts exactly. I hope Jing&Jer have a positive influence on Ben and Jessa. Who knows, they might even use the "we're planning to foster so can't get pregnant right now" excuse. Or truth, who knows. 

[VineHeart137]

Very sad to hear so many negative experiences with hospitals and breast/formula feeding. My hospital encouraged breastfeeding and my daughter and I did really well with it from the start, but they still sent us home with a crap ton of "just in case" fornula. No true nursery though, you had to "room-in" with baby unless there was a serious problem. Personally I preferred having my daughter with me the whole time, and my husband was there to hang on to her while I rested, but I can also see why other moms would like to have the option.

[Carm_88]

18 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Not only that but Ben & Jessa just laughed. Because lets face it that little duck terrorist is cute as can be.

Duck terrorist is probably the best description for what Spurgeon did to that poor duck. The duck was probably traumatized! I like that Ben and Jessa laughed, I think they realize it's normal kid behaviour. 

[JesusCampSongs]

16 hours ago, Satan'sFortress said:

I am so sad at all the negative experiences FJers have had with breastfeeding and with bad perceptions of lactation consultants, baby friendly hospitals, and BF "fanatics."  I am sorry for anyone who was treated unkindly or who felt that their or their baby's health was put into jeopardy. 

Anyway, whatever mamas need to do is what mamas need to do! I have real sympathy for any of you who felt judged. 

I think that, in a sexist society, it doesn't matter which choice you make, you're doing it wrong. Formula feeding is wrong because breastfeeding is healthier. Using WIC coupons to buy formula is wasting taxpayer money. Not breastfeeding for long enough is selfish. Breastfeeding for too long is weird. Breastfeeding in public is gross and traumatic to all the children in the vicinity and offensive to the delicate sensibilities of straight guys. 

My stepmother is an LC  and an RD, and it makes me sad to see that so many LCs are being terrible to people when people like my stepmother, and her friends, go above and beyond to be supportive and non-judgmental about that kind of thing. A few weeks ago, she went into the clinic she works at part-time after hours, on her day off, after biking all over hell's half acre that afternoon, to help a new mom who was struggling. She's been in the community so long that she's helped three generations of families. 

I've never heard her say anything negative about individual women who formula feed, but don't get her started on the formula companies, especially Nestle. You'll get the most epic of lectures about their predatory business practices, how they lied to women all over the world about the quality of their products, and were directly responsible for the deaths of many, many babies in developing countries-- and, quite possibly, in the US. Baby formula is only as safe as the water you have to mix it with. 

[Chewing Gum]

1 hour ago, Carm_88 said:

Duck terrorist is probably the best description for what Spurgeon did to that poor duck. The duck was probably traumatized! I like that Ben and Jessa laughed, I think they realize it's normal kid behaviour. 

Derick would've probably said the duck manipulated his son into throwing. 

[singsingsing]

8 minutes ago, Chewing Gum said:

Derick would've probably said the duck manipulated his son into throwing. 

Nah, I think Derick would've blamed his son for his willfulness and 'sin nature'. All the while conveniently forgetting that he himself tried to run over a cat with his sled.

[justoneoftwo]

12 hours ago, NotQuiteMotY said:

 

Interesting. I had a round with PPD after Little NQ was born. Even with an antidepressant, I still didn't feel "normal" until after he weaned, and I've thought that in my case at least the two were probably linked. I wonder how often your OB sees it happen?

He says he has seen a large increase since BF became such a thing.  He didn't give stats on it though.  He seems to think that the pressure also adds to PPD, along with the hormones.  Women are told by the world they aren't good enough in yet another way. Motherhood is hard enough without that.  He encouraged me to stop when I had PPD, I didn't and got it under control in other ways, but he definitely is not a fan of long term BF.  Also, any late weaners out there remember that weaning can cause PPD even though your well out of the time doctors would check.  Weaning changes hormones which can trigger it.

[ThunderRolls]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

Nah, I think Derick would've blamed his son for his willfulness and 'sin nature'. All the while conveniently forgetting that he himself tried to run over a cat with his sled.

That reminds me of Jeremy's comment that Spurgeon "has a will about him." My mom and I watched the episode together, and she gave a big eye roll at that. Spurgeon was 17 months old in this last episode? Jeremy is definitely not ready for children of his own...

[justoneoftwo]

15 minutes ago, ThunderRolls said:

That reminds me of Jeremy's comment that Spurgeon "has a will about him." My mom and I watched the episode together, and she gave a big eye roll at that. Spurgeon was 17 months old in this last episode? Jeremy is definitely not ready for children of his own...

Really?  I say this about my 17 month old.  He has developed a will recently, being very sure what he wants when he wants it.  I say it as a good thing but its totally true.  I didn't hear Jeremy's tone but I know parents who are proud of their kids developing like that.  (Not the duck thing, its terrible to laugh at that it just encourages, although its hard sometimes)

[ThunderRolls]

Just now, justoneoftwo said:

Really?  I say this about my 17 month old.  He has developed a will recently, being very sure what he wants when he wants it.  I say it as a good thing but its totally true.  I didn't hear Jeremy's tone but I know parents who are proud of their kids developing like that.  (Not the duck thing, its terrible to laugh at that it just encourages, although its hard sometimes)

You sound like a normal parent using that word. Maybe I'm overly sensitive to Duggar-speak, but it didn't seem like Jeremy thought Spurgeon's "will" was a good thing. Perhaps others who watched the episode interpreted it differently? 

I have an almost 1 year old, and she's "willful" too - but I just take it as a part of her normal development that most kids go through, testing their boundaries and working on ways to express themselves. I feel like fundies value obedience over anything else so a "will" needs to be trained out of a child instead of guided in a positive way. Willful children, you know, might ask "Why?" once in awhile. 

[JPickleDuggar]

4 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

Duck terrorist is probably the best description for what Spurgeon did to that poor duck. The duck was probably traumatized! I like that Ben and Jessa laughed, I think they realize it's normal kid behaviour. 

Honestly that was the funniest thing ever(I do feel bad for the duck) but Spurg did it so quick, he didn't seem to give it any thought and J&B&J&J found it funny too

[metheglyn]

1 hour ago, JPickleDuggar said:

Honestly that was the funniest thing ever(I do feel bad for the duck) but Spurg did it so quick, he didn't seem to give it any thought and J&B&J&J found it funny too

I agree, it was pretty hilarious, especially Jeremy's utterly shocked response.

It wasn't like Jeremy was *trying* to get Spurg to throw the bottle. From what I can tell, he just wanted to show Spurge the duck, and Spurge made the decision on his own to chuck his bottle at it. And it happened so fast that Jeremy was just blindsided by it. Definitely not a deliberate act of animal cruelty by anyone but the toddler, who didn't know any better.

At least the girls figured out how to safely get the bottle back, after Jessa made Jeremy back away from the water with her baby.

[lexiloumarie]

Did we talk about the pictures of Jessa at the wedding in a t-shirt? 

[singsingsing]

25 minutes ago, lexiloumarie said:

Did we talk about the pictures of Jessa at the wedding in a t-shirt? 

You mean her and Ben's congrats video? That wasn't at the wedding. That was most likely filmed at the TTH. She was a bridesmaid at the wedding.