Safe at Home 2: The Continuing Adventures of The Arndts

[VVV]

4 hours ago, Shiny said:

That clip makes them look so old and sad. 

I was thinking the same thing. My sons are 22 and 20, and while I might have expected something like that from them when they were 10 and 8, I can't imagine them acting like that now.

[SolomonFundy]

The shovel bros gave me gladiator vibes, until I reflected on the fact that they've probably had this same, exact mock battle every afternoon, Groundhog Day-style, for the past 30 years.

American Sadiators.

[elliha]

I saw the lost Arndt brother at my church again this Wednesday. He seems like a nice guy but I just can't stop thinking about his American "cousins" when I see him. 

[seraaa]

On 9/24/2017 at 11:24 PM, Carm_88 said:

I don't think they would be fundie enough for most of the fundie families that we discuss here. Yet, I think that they are too religious for the average person.

Would they ever marry someone with different religious beliefs? I wonder how much leeway there is here.

[JenniferJuniper]

1 hour ago, seraaa said:

Would they ever marry someone with different religious beliefs? I wonder how much leeway there is here.

No.  Not unless they broke from their parents first.  They worship at the Church O'Dad Arndt, and I imagine it would be difficult to find an already uber religious girl and convert her to this particular church.  The only possible hope would be to find a non-religious girl and immediately convert her. I reckon that would involve some sort of Patty Hearst-esque kidnapping, so I don't see it happening.

To break this strange cycle someone has to say "Thanks, but no thanks" to his father, mother, brothers and *gasp* Wizzy and strike out on his own.  This is the only thing I can imagine causing a breakdown in order,  especially if it's a higher tier manboy. 

They appear to be building another house on adjacent land they purchased.  I'm imagining a small monastery for the oldest sons, one that will allow the next 30 somethings to take their place in the attic of the main house. 

[Letgo]

10 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

No.  Not unless they broke from their parents first.  They worship at the Church O'Dad Arndt, and I imagine it would be difficult to find an already uber religious girl and convert her to this particular church.

So they don't attend a real church? They worship at home, with Dad as the Pastor? Does anyone else attend this "church" or is it just their family?

[JenniferJuniper]

1 minute ago, Letgo said:

So they don't attend a real church? They worship at home, with Dad as the Pastor? Does anyone else attend this "church" or is it just their family?

Yes, they worship at home and Rick is their pastor.  As far as I can tell, he only regularly meets with his wife and offspring although they do entertain, so maybe he leads other groups at times or has in the past.  He's always talking about his ministry, but he seems to take a non-aggressive, softball (bad pun intended) approach to "leading people to the Lord".  He works mostly through softball games and internet rambles.

In some respects his style is far less offensive than some of the more obnoxious fundies we know, but Rick's main problem is that he lives in his own head and his "lectures" are meandering, naval gazing affairs chock full of really bad metaphors.  I can't imagine he connects with many people.

Oh, and he's completely obsessed with abortion.  And thinks Trump is an awesome "baby Christian". 

 

[EmiGirl]

3 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

And thinks Trump is an awesome "baby Christian". 

 

I really try hard not to judge the salvation of others, but I've seen no evidence of any conversion from Trump. 

[katilac]

That shovel battle is actually stupidly dangerous for the amount of fun generated. 

[Furbabiesonly]

I feel like there has to be something extra keeping the man boys from finding partners. I don’t know about their location personally, but I grew up in the Midwest and frankly, when I was in my early twenties and a college drop out, I knew plenty of good Christian girls who just wanted their MRS, who would be thrilled to get to know a guy with a halfway decent career, virgins til marriage, creepy father in law and all. Granted, nearly a decade later, those good Christian girls have a 75 percent divorce rate, but that’s neither here nor there. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Furbabiesonly said:

I feel like there has to be something extra keeping the man boys from finding partners. I don’t know about their location personally, but I grew up in the Midwest and frankly, when I was in my early twenties and a college drop out, I knew plenty of good Christian girls who just wanted their MRS, who would be thrilled to get to know a guy with a halfway decent career, virgins til marriage, creepy father in law and all. Granted, nearly a decade later, those good Christian girls have a 75 percent divorce rate, but that’s neither here nor there. 

Could they just be incredibly immature like we saw in the video? Maybe girls see cute single boys with a job, get to now them, and realize they are basically man boys and run for the hills. 

[Carm_88]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Could they just be incredibly immature like we saw in the video? Maybe girls see cute single boys with a job, get to now them, and realize they are basically man boys and run for the hills. 

I would say meeting Rick would be a downfall as well. Can you imagine the ramblings and tangents he would go on? I'd be running! 

[JenniferJuniper]

4 hours ago, Furbabiesonly said:

I feel like there has to be something extra keeping the man boys from finding partners.

I think it's a lot of things, but as all but one of the adults are male, I think there are a few things we can assume. First, according to Rick they believe in the "dating with a purpose" system.  So it would have to be a manboy taking the lead and any future daughter-in-law would have to pass muster with both Rick and Cathy BEFORE the first actual date. I can't imagine that's an easy feat.  

They are around a lot of girls.  And yet as far as we know, no one has ever had a steady girlfriend.  They aren't bad looking and several of them (James!) have very marketable skills.  They are pleasant, if a little odd and awkward (although some women are attracted to that).  But we know from both Mark's and Luke's old diaries that they are looking for absolutely perfect women - and they are fully expecting them to fall into their laps like penguins dropping from drones.

So 1) requiring a woman meet their standard of perfection 2) needing to take the lead in a courtship arrangement in an area of the country where courting is likely seen as silly and 3) having to get permission from both Mom and Dad before even taking a girl to see the latest Pixar movie.   Combined these are powerful reasons why girlfriends never materialize.

I maintain that anyone who wants an independent life - one that might include their own family - has to first get away from their parents and siblings.  I do not see that happening with any of the 5 or 6 oldest sons.   I think they'll probably live out their lives together.  But I do think there is hope for the younger members of the family, if only because they have have the advantage both of aging parents and the ability to see how their brothers' lives turned out.

 

[Letgo]

3 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

 But we know from both Mark's and Luke's old diaries that they are looking for absolutely perfect women - and they are fully expecting them to fall into their laps like penguins dropping from drones.

I maintain that anyone who wants an independent life - one that might include their own family - has to first get away from their parents and siblings.  I do not see that happening with any of the 5 or 6 oldest sons.   I think they'll probably live out their lives together.  But I do think there is hope for the younger members of the family, if only because they have have the advantage both of aging parents and the ability to see how their brothers' lives turned out.

Absolutely love that line I bolded! And sadly, it is probably very true for them. Buy a larger drone, boys!

I agree that the manboys need to get out from under the thumbs of Mommy and Daddy. But I don't think that "anyone who wants an independent life - one that might include their own family - has to first get away from their parents and siblings" is quite the way I'd phrase it. Most normal people don't need to "get away" from their parents and siblings.                                        My kids went off to college, got jobs, got married and they all live nearby, by choice. That is the key word. My kids had a choice-and I'd like to think we are fairly normal.  

We did not coerce our kids into not attending college, to not move out, to stay with us and be "safe at home," and to wait for perfection to be dropped from the sky into their laps in order to get married. We simply lived normally and the kids grew up into adulthood and independence, never needing to  "get away" from us. That is what usually happens in typical families. Escape isn't necessary, leaving home and becoming independent evolves naturally. Because,  you know, children become adults and normal parents respect that.

Raising children to become independent, happy, successful, and responsible adults should be what all parents try to do. Raising children to remain dependent and at home is just all kinds of wrong. That is why the Arndts baffle me; the parents were raised normally, weren't they? Why change so drastically with their own family? Rick and Cathy got to move out, get married, have children. Why can't their manboys, and Whizzy, do the same?

However, you are correct in saying there is a need to "get away"for the Arndts, who are not what I would call typical or normal. For some reason this family just makes me so sad. Does Rick not see that having his adult offspring still at home is ODD??? Does he not understand that he is holding them back from life? Does he care? It's just awful that these grown men still can't "get away" from their parents and siblings. What occurs so naturally for most people seems to be impossible for this family. Just so sad.

[JenniferJuniper]

1 hour ago, Letgo said:

Absolutely love that line I bolded! And sadly, it is probably very true for them. Buy a larger drone, boys!

I agree that the manboys need to get out from under the thumbs of Mommy and Daddy. But I don't think that "anyone who wants an independent life - one that might include their own family - has to first get away from their parents and siblings" is quite the way I'd phrase it. Most normal people don't need to "get away" from their parents and siblings.                                    

I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. By "anyone" I meant "any Arndt".  Not any normal person.

[nokidsmom]

20 hours ago, Letgo said:

Does Rick not see that having his adult offspring still at home is ODD??? Does he not understand that he is holding them back from life? Does he care? It's just awful that these grown men still can't "get away" from their parents and siblings. What occurs so naturally for most people seems to be impossible for this family. Just so sad.

It is indeed sad and I personally experienced something like this in my FOO though not to the extremes that Rick and Cathy are taking it.  Nor did my sisters have the responsibility of supporting my able bodied working parents financially.   But they were seriously mindfucked over how to take (and maintain) control of their own lives and while both are married now, they still remained enmeshed with my parents and it's impacted both of their marriages.  Even if any manboy got married, he would still have a lot of unhealthy "stuff" (enmeshed family bonds and the thinking that goes with it) to overcome and I highly doubt any Arndt wife would be prepared to play second fiddle to her in laws to the extent she would have to.

I have seen upfront and personal that parents like Rick and Cathy see nothing wrong with holding their children back.  There can can be all kinds of theories/reasons behind this, I suppose, but bottom line the parents do not want change and will do everything to prevent that change.   They want to continue as if they were a younger family with the parents in charge and complete control of their children because for whatever reasons, "safe at home" is so that Rick and Cathy can feel safe and certain.  Financially, materially and emotionally.    They talk about "safe at home" is for the benefit of their children but make no mistake, this is about the parents.

On 10/7/2017 at 9:41 AM, JenniferJuniper said:

I maintain that anyone who wants an independent life - one that might include their own family - has to first get away from their parents and siblings.

This is what I did and while I did maintain connections to my family, leaving did come with a cost, that of being tagged as the "one who broke up the family".   Not only will any Arndt son/daughter have to get away, they will also have to be prepared to experience some consequences like this to do so.  No, it's not right but that's what happened when one breaks away from a family with serious enmeshment going on.   It will reverberate throughout the family and it won't be a Rick/Cathy issue, it will be a whole family issue.  But one has to decide: live one's life according to one's own hopes and goals or live a life according to someone else's hopes and goals.  You (general you) have only one shot at life and it's important to remember that parents like Rick and Cathy got to live their lives the way they wanted, what about you? 

I always come to the Arndt threads in hopes that finally one Arndt kidult has managed to break away even if it meant going on a photo shoot (hint to the working manboys: this might be your way out, wouldn't blame you) and never coming back but at this point but after seeing that video, I think these guys and Wizzy will live out their lives with their parents. When the parental units shuffle off this mortal coil, they will still remain together in their parent's home because they will have known nothing else.

[Four is Enough]

I had to physically move many miles away from my family in order to become independent, and it has taken me nearly a lifetime to completely become free, stand on my own feet securely, and re=establish adult relationships with my family, who tries to suck me into old patterns still. It becomes easier to recognize and avoid, and the urge to respond in the old way does diminish with practice... so I would encourage anyone who is trying to get out, to KEEP IT UP.

Now I live 90 miles away and can get there if I have to, and the phones are always open..

[nokidsmom]

4 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

I had to physically move many miles away from my family in order to become independent, and it has taken me nearly a lifetime to completely become free, stand on my own feet securely, and re=establish adult relationships with my family, who tries to suck me into old patterns still. It becomes easier to recognize and avoid, and the urge to respond in the old way does diminish with practice... so I would encourage anyone who is trying to get out, to KEEP IT UP.

Now I live 90 miles away and can get there if I have to, and the phones are always open..

This is me exactly, I moved to the opposite side of a large metro area from where my folks lived.  I was able to get there easily, in spite of my mother wailing I moved "too far way" and the phones were always open.  Though I will admit to times that I didn't keep in touch perhaps as much as I should have though knowing that no matter what I did, it won't be enough anyway.  Maybe that's why. 

And it took decades for me to fully process just what I had grown up in and to enforce appropriate boundaries.  My mother passed two years ago and my 90 year old father is now dying. I am helping with his care (taking him to radiation / chemo treatments and visiting him on weekends making sure he is doing OK) but even now I have to run everything through the appropriate boundary filter because my still enmeshed sisters are acting out of that mindset and want to me to do far more than what is needed,  Example:  insisting that I help not only in taking care of Dad which is fine, but we have to continue cleaning out the parents house which is not an urgent issue, it's just it's one of my sister's obsessions right now.

[Howl]

On 10/6/2017 at 6:09 PM, Letgo said:

So they don't attend a real church? They worship at home, with Dad as the Pastor? Does anyone else attend this "church" or is it just their family?

Course not.  It's the Blessed Church of Safe at Home with Rick and Cathy.  You can't be safer or more at home than in your own house. 

[JenniferJuniper]

32 minutes ago, Howl said:

Course not.  It's the Blessed Church of Safe at Home with Rick and Cathy.  You can't be safer or more at home than in your own house. 

Exactly.  A beam could fall on your head in church!  Or worse still, the pastor may say something that isn't in lockstep with Rick's philosophies.

Must keep everyone safe.  God forbid anyone get any independent ideas - it might be like dominoes falling.  Dad's well oiled support system could fall apart.

[Carm_88]

11 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Must keep everyone safe.  God forbid anyone get any independent ideas - it might be like dominoes falling.  Dad's well oiled support system could fall apart.

If an independent idea somehow makes it way into someone's head, Rick takes them out for a drive and crushes it. 

[JenniferJuniper]

4 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

If an independent idea somehow makes it way into someone's head, Rick takes them out for a drive and crushes it. 

Crushed and then washed down with a fountain soda.

[formergothardite]

Any woman brought home will probably be introduced to Vine Valley which would scare off most people. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

There is a part of me that wants to believe that there is something mentally wrong with Rick -- a psychic break, or schizophrenia, or something -- anything -- to explain his nutty behavior.

But then there is a larger part of me that believes that Rick is just plain mean, controlling, selfish and evil.  He knows exactly what he's doing keeping the man-boys at home to support the family.  Selfishly manipulating their basic decency and convincing them the family cannot survive without their earnings.  He has controlled their lives by making them believe that nowhere but home will ever be safe.  He has intentionally stunted their emotional growth to create and maintain his own cult.  He has effectively squashed any interests, dreams and hopes they might have had. 

I keep coming back to this and here is where I see Rick as evil.  None of this is for the good of the family.  All of this is for the good of Rick.  He is a sponger. He does nothing except play film auteur and pretend to be a source of wisdom for raising children.  He is an emotional vampire sucking the life  and youth out of his children  And he's doing it on purpose. 

He has destroyed their futures.  He has destroyed their lives.  That is evil.

[JenniferJuniper]

51 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

I keep coming back to this and here is where I see Rick as evil.  None of this is for the good of the family.  All of this is for the good of Rick.  He is a sponger. He does nothing except play film auteur and pretend to be a source of wisdom for raising children.  He is an emotional vampire sucking the life  and youth out of his children  And he's doing it on purpose. 

I agree.  My primary question, and I guess the reason for my fascination with this family, is when did this happen?   I find it hard to believe he and Cathy set out to do this to their little boys 35 years ago.   When, why, and how did this all happen?  And what was/is Cathy's role in all of this?  Victim or co-conspirator?  Or some combination of both?