BRADRICK! Divorce Part 2

[AlwaysExcited]

7 hours ago, andrew said:

the fruit of the flesh has and is coming home to roost. One son in law a pedo, now, perhaps two,  while some are still unmarried; captures of vain law laced teachings that do not save. 

Wait, what? 

 

[DinglyDoll]

On 3/17/2017 at 0:06 PM, nausicaa said:

This is from @Fundiewonder 's post on the last thread.

I feel the same way. And I have to admit, I feel bad for the guy. I always feel terrible for kids who are gay and have to grow up in an atmosphere where they are taught to hate the essence of who they are. He was set up to fail by his family and the false promises of VF. Peter probably hoped that marrying the prettiest girl in fundiedom could cure him of any unwanted attractions. But the world, and human sexuality, just doesn't work that way.

 

I speak from experience, if you are in fundie land as we were, there is no room to be gay. Heck, a guy can't even be involved in "feminine" careers like art and music and be very respected by other male fundies. We knew a couple of young guys who did just what Fundiewonder is saying: date the prettiest and purist girl and hope the gay feelings go away. (Youth pastors tell them that everyone has gay feelings from time to time.) My gaydar goes off with lots of fundie guys, and it makes me sad that they can't live out their true identifies. It's sad for everyone. If Joshua Palazzolo who married Kimberly Mueller isn't gay, I will eat my shorts http://muellermice.blogspot.com/ . (The Mueller's are another large fundie family related to David Waller's brother.)  Fortunately, the kids we knew accepted their gayness, left the cult, and now live out their true identities. Try telling the fundies that praying away the gay doesn't work. Dennis Jernigan will show up at their church and slap that down. Human sexuality is innate, can't be changed, and  fundies are still so opposed that authors like Rod Dreher is out there holding conferences telling "Christians" they need to remove themselves from the world because of the gays and form communities, i.e. his concept: The Benedict Option! :-O

[MamaJunebug]

1 hour ago, GenerationCedarchip said:

.....

I go to a church that has family-integrated worship but is not formally affiliated with NCFIC and I was just curious - what sets churches in the NCFIC apart?  Is there something distinctive in their theology? I know it's kind of a basic question, but I was just trying to understand.  I come from a presbyterian tradition, so while I know some reformed baptists and have heard a few speak, I'm less familiar with them than with the folks on the Presby side of reformed-dom.

Yes, NCFIC is way more than just the traditional churches where babies & children are welcomed to the whole service. Go to NCFIC.org and send for the rescue ferrets anytime you feel yourself slipping. 

Lots about teh manly kingdom, not much of anything about the man Jesus Christ. 

[EowynW]

My fundie cousin ran off with another guy after 7 years of marriage. No one ever saw it coming. I'm glad he isn't trapped any longer but I really did feel for his wife. She was such a sweet lady and was totally blindsided when it happened. I think the fundie teachings on this just set up a lot of people to be damaged. 

[Anonymousguest]

2 hours ago, GenerationCedarchip said:

I just had a question.  I don't attend an NCFIC church, but I have noticed that in recent years the idea that children should be welcome in services and families should be encouraged to worship together is one that has become popular even among churches that are not technically members of the NCFIC.  

I go to a church that has family-integrated worship but is not formally affiliated with NCFIC and I was just curious - what sets churches in the NCFIC apart?  Is there something distinctive in their theology? I know it's kind of a basic question, but I was just trying to understand.  I come from a presbyterian tradition, so while I know some reformed baptists and have heard a few speak, I'm less familiar with them than with the folks on the Presby side of reformed-dom.

The FIC I was part of was not part of the NCFIC, and even talked about changing the name after the fall of VF to distance themselves. I just checked three main web page though and it still says family integrated. Our church was reformed. 

There were no programs that separate the family. No Sunday school, youth group, etc. Except of course the weekly men's prayer and teaching institute. This was to raise all the men to be priests of the home, to give then the tools to lead their families and answer all their theological and spiritual questions. We did later add a women's ministry, once a month teaching based on Titus 2. We could not have any fellowship time that did not include teaching. (Because women are known to gossip and complain when they have idle time). 

[Clementine]

So if it is true that Peter has cheated on Kelly with other women and possibly men, what will happen to him now?

He seems to still be part of a NCFIC church. Now what? Pray away the gay? Fundie bootcamp like Josh? Shunned like Ted Haggard?

What do you think?

[Anonymousguest]

11 minutes ago, Clementine said:

So if it is true that Peter has cheated on Kelly with other women and possibly men, what will happen to him now?

He seems to still be part of a NCFIC church. Now what? Pray away the gay? Fundie bootcamp like Josh? Shunned like Ted Haggard?

What do you think?

Probably intensive counseling and accountability to the pastor and other elders, assuming he wants to remain in the church. If he leaves he'll be shunned. 

[smittykins]

OK, now I'm hearing Roy Zimmerman singing "Peter Bradrick Is Completely Heterosexual" in my head...

[MamaJunebug]

15 minutes ago, Anonymousguest said:

Probably intensive counseling and accountability to the pastor and other elders, assuming he wants to remain in the church. If he leaves he'll be shunned. 

I'd hope he'd find a family-by-choice at a welcoming Metro. Community Church or something similar (you know Seattle has to have at least one) but y'know, he's going to need a personality transformation to be happy. (Yes, this IS MJB, Who Has Powers To Diagnose People From A Laptop)

Been around long enough to know that being able to acknowledge one's orientation and find self-acceptance doesn't by any means guarantee happiness. A controlling SOB will try to control his guy, a manipulative woman will try to impose her will on her gal. It ain't all rainbows in the rainbow tribe. 

That said, Peter obviously has his positive attributes. He can be loyal.  He can sell. He's not afraid to use a little winsome humor as he did when he published some doggerel advising the world of his availability as a RE agent. He knows how to play the corporate game of keeping the boss happy. 

Maybe "transformation" is too sweeping a word.  Maybe "personality improvement." My hope: that Peter finds the strength and support to accept himself and live his life  honorably and positively and with success at what really matters.  And that he's part of a (imperfect but ultimately) warm and supportive community. 

I know, asking a lot. But he's had a lot to slog through in his first 30-some years. 

[VVV]

2 hours ago, DinglyDoll said:

http://muellermice.blogspot.com/

Holy smokes, check out the wide stances in the wedding party photo.

[VooDooChild]

3 minutes ago, VVV said:

Holy smokes, check out the wide stances in the wedding party photo.

Am I the only on cringing that Joe and Mary have had a child per year since 2013?  Geez beans!  Stop it Joe!  Your wife's health is more important than birthing a thousand kids!

[MamaJunebug]

13 minutes ago, VVV said:

Holy smokes, check out the wide stances in the wedding party photo.

Pretty much ruined the group photo. 

Mans the photo of the groomsmen holding the groom Superman style---with that scowl and the clenched hands??? Unfortunate!!

FWIW I don't get the vibe from the groom. He's just - IMHO - a not-very-handsome fellow with bad luck in facial hair. 

[Black Aliss]

11 minutes ago, VVV said:

Holy smokes, check out the wide stances in the wedding party photo.

I hope they don't stand like that in public washroom stalls. It could get them in big trouble.

[Anonymousguest]

I wonder if Peter, assuming it was men her cheated with, believes that it was just a bad choice. I took have heard poachers say having a homosexual relationship is a choice we all have to make, we could all go that way if we allowed our selves to. Peter may believe that, and that it was a sin and with proper counseling and accountability he can get over it, like people can with a porn addiction.

I have definitely met men who set off my gaydar who were married with children. And one young man I know personally, I do worry about. There will be a huge fall out if he ever comes out publicly. I know he's been confronted but he denied. His parents also have been confronted and denied, but I know they know. And I've seen their stance go from "being gay is a sin" to "acting on homosexual urges is a sin". But I know others who disagree even with that, saying thinking about it is the same as doing it (and was a factor in then leaving the church). 

[andrew]

10 hours ago, andrew said:

Oh that the problem was identified by a name or by a person. It is sad that all of us are so capable of what the B's have done. WE have each done it but I hope on a smaller scale. I never split a church or took over an organization so in a way I admire their power. Certainly they may have more notoriety than I but that is no glory on my part. I believe the B's are deceived and deceiving, spiritually lost. Just like I was. It is a sad and distressing thing to be lost in the very thing you'd hoped too for rescue. Not a new problem;  Jesus told his 'religious'  folks, "Search the scriptures, for in them you think you have life; and they are they which teach of me."  Many of us in the church are searching for and relying on someone or something else to get us over the finish line. It don't work! Only Jesus. Only He can take a sinner and set them free. PTL I am free! My hope and prayer for all locked into the Satan's lies is that they might be free. Why would you want to be in any cult? Even if it sounded 'christian'.  They are deceived. The B's sound very 'christian' but while historically the fruit of the spirit has not been noted (peace, love, that sort of stuff) the fruit of the flesh has and is coming home to roost. One son in law a pedo, now, perhaps two,  while some are still unmarried; captures of vain law laced teachings that do not save. Teachings that snare. Teachings that divide and subtract and never multiply or add to the body of Christ. That is the 'religion' of the NCFIC, the VF and others of their ilk. While they were raising Godly children in an ungodly age they forgot the variable of the human heart and seem to have lost what they'd hoped to gain through practices and teachings that are divisive.

In 2006 the Fundamental Baptist Fellowship International said Family Integrated Church practices were ‘errant and schismatic.’ They pretty much sum it up:

• It encourages schism in the local church bodies by encouraging its adherents to change the theology and philosophy of the churches of which they are members.

• It does violence to local church authority, calling on local church members to leave their churches when the church does not bow to the philosophical demands of the movement.

• It espouses an ecclesiology based upon the family that is not based upon the New Testament but rather is an adaptation of Old Testament patriarchy.

• It falsely lays the claim that the destruction of the family in the U.S. is solely the fault of age-graded ministries in local churches. We contend that this is a simplistic and therefore false accusation.

• It espouses a postmillennial theology that is contradictory to a dispensational understanding of Scripture.

• It is oddly inclusive, basing fellowship on a particular philosophy of ministry rather than on the great fundamentals of the faith.

I do not say that anyone involved in the NCFIC is lacking salvation. Salvation does not hinge on these things singularly but the efficacy of the salvation message can be clouded by them, the Christian walk can be hindered by them and unity will certainly suffer from them. 

Look to Jesus.

 

[formergothardite]

5 minutes ago, andrew said:

One son in law a pedo, now, perhaps two

What have I missed? 

[Red Jumper]

That would explain the supervised visitation.

But is it derieved from that, is it rumor, or is thete evidence?

I hate to spread rumors or speculate on someone actions if they involve crimes.

[formergothardite]

Hopefully @andrew can clear up what he is saying. 

[andrew]

Here is some information on the NCFIC who teach a new/old way. Some folks, after becoming knowledgeable about this splinter movement, call it Islamic-christianity. 

Regarding age segregation the NCFIC booklets, leaflets and proponents often point to specific yet isolated events from the OT as proof that they are right and everyone else is WRONG about church practice. They will sanctimoniously cry, "Sola scriptura!"  This is a fancy latin way of saying they stand on scripture alone. Good! That is good but then they start their special interpretations. According to the author of “A Weed in the Church’ anyone age segregating, for other than exclusive times, is un-Godly and practicing Darwinistic philosophies. 

Teaching is where the leader pontificates and the crowds admire, honor and pay homage to him typically vying for attention or special blessing; these are often attained through personal services to the leaders. Getting fire wood, updating electrical, remodel work and special building projects (like a huge dining table) are good for bartering for favors and an audience. The mis-use of specific scripture is across the board amongst NCFIC members. Actually the dogma is pretty simple. Mistakenly the members assume long peaching means quality teaching. It does not. These are clouds w/o rain, having been led astray from the pure gospel they lead others into the same error. Confusing knowledge and social acclaim with Godliness or a growing relationship with Jesus. These teachers love their BOOKS and pretend to have read them all. (Leather bound is preferred.) 

I recall what Jesus said to the intelligencia of his day, ‘Search the scriptures for in them you think you have eternal life and they (the scriptures) are what give testimony to me.’ [sorry my own translation here] 

I love my brothers and sisters who ride the NCFIC Train or the Calvin Hobby Horse but I would caution us all that in our desire to know God we can be quickly diverted so we need to ‘work out’ our salvation journey with fear and caution. I am afraid that Calvin himself would likely balk at what his teachings have grown into and the festering intellectual and moral superiority of those on both sides of the issue. The bickering brings little resolution and shames our Christ. The NCFIC divides brothers and sisters with false emphasis on out of balance teachings catering to our own pride. It then slowly delivers the Pride and it always delivers: separation from God and then from His Family and then Death.

Church splits, friendships ending. These are the real fruit of the NCFIC. Closer walk with Jesus? Not required; just obey the rules as posted. So sad. I love my brothers and sisters from our old church but cannot go back into bondage. If any one from there is reading this please say: Hello to all. Also hello to our dear friends in Sequim, his wife is an internet sleuth if there ever was one! She knows it too. I just bet she's reading the site. Love all three of ya up there! 

 

Note to Bill B.: hey man you need to get that boy to Joni & Friends Camp!! August at Twin Rock Camp in Oregon. It's likely full up but due to the fragility of some campers there are sometimes openings. (To readers: This was a man I detested!! Absolutely. And I nearly passed out cause after God saved me I loved this guy!! He is very special to me.

 

I would also like to hear from anyone who has information on a failed church in Mt Saint Helens called Riverside Baptist Church. No longer around it was at 185 S Columbia River HWY, St. Helens, Oregon 97051. I was told by an old retired pastor that there was a moral scandal of some sort and the pastor left. THIS IS HEARSAY!! I have no reason to doubt what he said and I fail to see a reason he might lie about it. He seemed sad.  I have reports that the members of that church drove to Washington and put fliers of warning out on the cars. The pastor had them gotten rid of. Both the folks and the fliers. I am still interested in the story from the failed church. Thanks!!

[Palimpsest]

7 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Hopefully @andrew can clear up what he is saying. 

Yes.  It is getting confusing. I'll just add, only Peter and Kelly know what happened.  All the rest is speculation and rumor. 

And I'm still confused about @andrew is getting at. But I'd love it if he answered my questions.

 

[DomWackTroll]

4 hours ago, GenerationCedarchip said:

I just had a question.  I don't attend an NCFIC church, but I have noticed that in recent years the idea that children should be welcome in services and families should be encouraged to worship together is one that has become popular even among churches that are not technically members of the NCFIC.  

I go to a church that has family-integrated worship but is not formally affiliated with NCFIC and I was just curious - what sets churches in the NCFIC apart?  Is there something distinctive in their theology? I know it's kind of a basic question, but I was just trying to understand.  I come from a presbyterian tradition, so while I know some reformed baptists and have heard a few speak, I'm less familiar with them than with the folks on the Presby side of reformed-dom.

I've honestly never understood why they act like it's such a radical, "counter-cultural" thing to have kids in worship services. Hell, back in the day, we just called it "being Catholic." I can't even tell you how many times my parents had to drag one of us into the lobby to avoid a scene. Billions and billions. 

[Mrs. Bean]

18 minutes ago, Red Jumper said:

That would explain the supervised visitation.

But is it derieved from that, is it rumor, or is thete evidence?

I hate to spread rumors or speculate on someone actions if they involve crimes.

One of Bradrick's son-in-law's is currently serving time for a sexual offense against the minor. In the available divorce files it specifically marked that there are no reports of abuse of any kind. 

[AlwaysExcited]

1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

My hope: that Peter finds the strength and support to accept himself and live his life  honorably and positively and with success at what really matters.  And that he's part of a (imperfect but ultimately) warm and supportive community. 

And Kelly as well. 
 

[MamaJunebug]

1 hour ago, Anonymousguest said:

........ And I've seen their stance go from "being gay is a sin" to "acting on homosexual urges is a sin". But I know others who disagree even with that, saying thinking about it is the same as doing it (and was a factor in then leaving the church). 

The bolded makes me so sorrowful. 

[andrew]

23 minutes ago, DomWackTroll said:

I've honestly never understood why they act like it's such a radical, "counter-cultural" thing to have kids in worship services. Hell, back in the day, we just called it "being Catholic." I can't even tell you how many times my parents had to drag one of us into the lobby to avoid a scene. Billions and billions. 

It is radical only in the sense that the whole thing is just about control. Read up on any of these patriarchal systems and, unless you fit the mold, you may find yourself enjoying fellowship with the padded pew.  Had a friend that was single and older. She didn't fit the mold so she was out. If you're an attractive young couple w/kids and run your own business then you are GOLD! Military and civil servants are exempt from the 'own your own business' clause. These places have an openness and friendliness but it is not very deep because everyone's afraid if they're honest they'll get the boot like some before them.  Additionally you must pass the test to get into the inner circles. Then there is a constant fear of getting 'called in'. Better to just mind your own business. Honest I had folks in leadership saying they understood the problem but they couldn't do anything about it. One leader remarked about all the leather bound books in the study that he really hadn't read many of them. The same guy went to a friends and asked if I 'd said anything bad about the church. That was over a year after I'd left! They have good memories at the NCFIC! Most churches allow kids in and are family friendly. Stay away from the NCFIC. It is about 95% good and only  5% bad. Just like rat poison.