BRADRICK! Divorce Part 2

[RosyDaisy]

@refugee Thanks for the info. It's definitely something I'm going to research.

[Jess]

My guess is she remarries in about three years. It looks like Washington maintenance/alimony is 1 year fit every three of marriage so she would get 3 years of support out of him. I doubt her father would let that go. 

[quiversR4hunting]

On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 0:55 PM, slickcat79 said:

I never saw the court documents, but here are relevant dates if they weren't mentioned.

IANAL, legal people correct me if I'm wrong.

Yesterday was ex parte action by the judge. This is basically the judge signing off on things that are currently agreed upon, without either party contesting. This would usually be a temporary order too.

Future action on the case is not scheduled until May 19th. Guessing entirely here, but I believe that a trial date would only be set if the parties involved were not in compliance with the current orders, or they can't agree on permanent conditions. So it's possible that custody and support arrangements will change. Also possible that they will stay exactly as they are, with no need for a trial. IIRC, most divorce cases don't go to trial.

https://linxonline.co.pierce.wa.us/linxweb/Case/CivilCase.cfm?cause_num=17-3-00135-9

Divorce cases do go to trial but not trial like law and order. They have a final date in front of the Judge to finalize the JOD (judgement of divorce) also in my state (not WA) parties must wait at a minimum 6 months when divorcing with children. I don't know the rule in WA but I wouldn't doubt they have similar rule. OCSE  would have the info but I hate looking at their website. He filed in January so May is only 5 months. Again, I don't know WA rules.

As for the current order, many people have a temp order, if they agree, prior to the final JOD. 

I found the "home state" interesting on page 4 of the petition.  He states that the kid's only home state is WA and that is where they all live. Now we all know she and the kids are back in NC. But the petition and other documents don't say anything about Kelly moving and okay the move. In my state this has to be agreed upon or approved by the Judge for parties to move more than 150 miles away from each other. (For the record, I work in child support but not in WA nor NC.)

 

OK on to wide stance manly men. Every time you all talk about wide stances I think of the following science from "What Women Want"

Spoiler

 

 

 

[snarkopolis]

10 hours ago, sawasdee said:

And - a serious question - why does the US seem to be more vulnerable to dubious churches than any other nation?

/rant.

Serious answer--churches pay no taxes. Preachers can be in charge of their church, and have it pay for all their planes, cars, houses, boats, vacations, clothes, jewelry, and all manner of foolishness and connivery. And it is LEGAL. And no taxes are paid.

 

 

 

[CyborgKin]

On the ESV, all the translators were male! http://newlife.id.au/equality-and-gender-issues/the-esv-men-only-club/

On hope chests, I can't help but be reminded of Back to the Future

On the Bradrick divorce, I happened upon this rather old page which uses their marriage and Scott's role in selection as great examples http://www.southtek.com/linesfromthevine/FindASuitor.asp?size=1024 (I'm sure there's a lot of these around.)  Welp.

[Palimpsest]

21 minutes ago, CyborgKin said:

I happened upon this rather old page which uses their marriage and Scott's role in selection as great examples http://www.southtek.com/linesfromthevine/FindASuitor.asp?size=1024 (I'm sure there's a lot of these around.)  Welp.

Good grief.  That apparently isn't a parody.  I wonder whether Mr and Mrs Potatohead followed through.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

21 hours ago, refugee said:

.I have been out of that church for some years now, and thankfully some of the exact terminology is fading from my brain. I also tend to mix up similar words IRL every day, but I do my best to be as accurate as my stupid brain allows (thank god for spellcheckers, too, though they sometimes offer me the wrong word). Give me a break!

Our former church was not crazy enough to be KJV-only. They preferred a different problematic bible, at least towards the tend of our time there, beloved of men who would subjugate women: the ESV. I grew up with the NIV. I have no idea what the KJV might have called it.

 

The thing is that KJV  is the only version that uses the word "dowry", NIV and ESV use "bride price" in those same passages. This, combined with the different/opposite meaning of dowry in plain English and in KJV, make mix ups pretty strange, also the two words aren't alike, at all.

I am not the only one who noticed that in your stories you often mix up your fundies. But fundies watching, I mean, being a fundie escapee isn't a precise science, so I may be wrong. 

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

20 hours ago, refugee said:

1-I think you're still steamed about my mention of adult men still living at home in a certain country. Even though I apologized in a later post, and did more research and came up with similar stories from other countries, including my own. I could not delete that post, per FJ rules, I did my best to fix what I'd done, and I've been careful ever since trying not to post something that someone else will take personally.

2-My personal stories are my own, I lived them, a couple of decades of hell, and pardon me if sometimes I mix up a word or two and am not precise enough in my wording to suit your mountain-high standards.

3-ETA: Prejudice = pre-judge = inclined to think the worst of someone, even if they have offended without meaning to, and have apologized, and have tried to change their methods accordingly. I had hoped we'd put that unfortunate stumble on my part behind, but... am tempted to do a little pre-judging myself. Resisting the temptation.

4-I will throw you a bone, however. I will never be as skilled and fluent in a second language as you have proved yourself to be.

1-You can write the words "Italy" and "Italian" you know, they aren't bad words.

Believe me or not, the episode you are referring to was completely forgotten months ago (can't remember what thread it was in). You said something I considered ignorant,  but it wasn't your fault, you were reporting things you heard or read. I should have explained to you the cultural differences that made your statement inaccurate, but doing so in the space of a post wasn't a feat for that day and when I found the time and willingness the thread had moved. I don't bear a grudge for something that can't be your fault. Also there are people here with whom I had far more heated exchanges with no grudges on my part.

What pissed me off was as recent as the last pages of the previous poopistan thread. Where you (together with the strep throat story) claimed a naturopath cured your daughter's "yeast overgrowth" in three years after many doctors failed to diagnose it. Sorry but as a person who was diagnosed with candidiasis and immediately treted and quickly cured by a true doctor I found your story absurd. And I wasn't the only one as you probably noticed.

2-It's good to know that your wellbeing doesn't depend on my believing your stories or not. I don't want that sort of responsibility. 

3-I have no prejudices towards you for who you say you are (namely American, a woman, a mother, a former fundie), if that were the case I would be on non speaking terms with the whole board. I just have an issue with what I perceive are exaggerated/made up/attention seeking stories. Of course being my perception just that, I can very well be wrong.  But don't worry I won't bother you again, I have already told you what I had to.

4-thank you, the bone was delicious.

[quiversR4hunting]

14 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

OCSE  would have the info but I hate looking at their website. He filed in January so May is only 5 months. Again, I don't know WA rules.

Yes, I am quoting myself. I found the information. OCSE reorganized their website- it's easier to find stuff! yeah! (I use a different tool at work and wasn't about to use that for FJ. Sorry but my job is more important than FJ and OCSE is public website anyone can look up.)

I digress, I didn't find it on OCSE, I found it on divorcenet.com (so take it for what it's worth) it says:

Quote

Completing the Divorce

The required paperwork to complete a divorce in Washington varies from county to county and depending on where you live, forms may be required in addition to those listed above. Check with your local court clerk to determine if you need to file additional forms.

For spouses with children, Washington requires the spouses to complete a divorce education course.

Once 90 days from the filing date have passed, the judge will review your paperwork. If the judge approves your divorce settlement and custody arrangement, the judge will sign the Findings of Fact and Decree of Dissolution. The date the judge signs the Decree of Dissolution is when your divorce becomes final.

So they only have to wait 90 days but they must complete a divorce education course.

[Red Jumper]

Would anyone fill a still happily married non-American in on what a divorce education courses might tell the spouses? Is it legal issues to observe because of the offspring? Or are the going to advise, please reconsider if you want the divorce? Kind of mandated marriage counseling

[quiversR4hunting]

2 hours ago, Red Jumper said:

Would anyone fill a still happily married non-American in on what a divorce education courses might tell the spouses? Is it legal issues to observe because of the offspring? Or are the going to advise, please reconsider if you want the divorce? Kind of mandated marriage counseling

This is what WA says needs to happen: http://www.washingtonparentpower.org/classes.htm

And this is what NC says: http://www.nccourts.org/County/Lenoir/Programs/Family/Parent.asp

Basically it tells you to be nice to each other and not put the kids between the 2 of you, etc. Many states require it but does it do any good? Not to some, they were mean during the marriage it will continue after a divorce (see Lori Alexander- she isn't divorced but she is nasty in a marriage).

[apple1]

Wow. I was FAR behind on this whole story. I had mostly been reading the political threads and not much else for quite a while. Hadn't even read the 2nd half of the thread before this one on this subject.

I think I'm caught up on Bradrick for now. :-(

[refugee]

7 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Sorry but as a person who was diagnosed with candidiasis and immediately treted and quickly cured by a true doctor I found your story absurd. And I wasn't the only one as you probably noticed.

It is not worth fighting over, but just a note: candidiasis wasn't something American MDs treated 25 years ago (our eldest is in her 30s now, and some of my mixing up facts may be due to my own age). I may be remembering wrong, but I seem to recall that it was considered one of those "quack" diagnoses, like I have heard people call "adrenal fatigue" nowadays.

Maybe a decade later (maybe two decades?) MDs started telling me to feed our younger kids yogurt after they finished a dose of antibiotics.

Believe it or not, 30 years ago, an American pediatrician put our then toddler on daily antibiotics for an entire year, as a preventive measure for recurring ear infections. If I'd known then that simply taking her off dairy would have solved the problem... (The next pediatrician, after we moved to a new location, operated on the kid's ears and put in tubes. Again, a surgical solution to a food allergy reaction.)

American medicine has changed a lot over the last six decades. My parents used to be able to get antibiotics (maybe it was just penicillin in those days?) prescribed over the phone. Of course, in those days, doctors made house calls, too. Three decades ago, MDs wrote prescriptions for antibiotics as if they were no different from sugar pills. Or maybe cure-alls. Nowadays, in the era of superbugs, they are much more cautious.

[quiversR4hunting]

1 hour ago, apple1 said:

Wow. I was FAR behind on this whole story. I had mostly been reading the political threads and not much else for quite a while. Hadn't even read the 2nd half of the thread before this one on this subject.

I think I'm caught up on Bradrick for now. :-(

I stopped reading for a bit too. It took me 2 days to catch up this week. And holy shit!

[divadivine]

28 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

I stopped reading for a bit too. It took me 2 days to catch up this week. And holy shit!

I need the Cliffs Notes. I can't even catch up. 

[Granwych]

1 hour ago, refugee said:

It is not worth fighting over, but just a note: candidiasis wasn't something American MDs treated 25 years ago (our eldest is in her 30s now, and some of my mixing up facts may be due to my own age). I may be remembering wrong, but I seem to recall that it was considered one of those "quack" diagnoses,

I disagree with your statement of candidiasis as not something American drs. treated 25 years ago.  I've been a nurse for over 30 years, and even as a student nurse I administered many a dose of nystatin or clotrimazole  to the people so diagnosed. 

I do remember, though, that more than a few medical practitioners jumped on the bandwagon claiming that many various and sundry diseases and disorders were simply forms of candidiasis.  Quackery has plagued humans since the dawn of civilization (no pun intended.)  

[refugee]

15 minutes ago, Granwych said:

I disagree with your statement of candidiasis as not something American drs. treated 25 years ago.  I've been a nurse for over 30 years, and even as a student nurse I administered many a dose of nystatin or clotrimazole  to the people so diagnosed. 

I do remember, though, that more than a few medical practitioners jumped on the bandwagon claiming that many various and sundry diseases and disorders were simply forms of candidiasis.  Quackery has plagued humans since the dawn of civilization (no pun intended.)  

How interesting! I have to admit, I don't remember exactly what went down 30 years ago, but one thing I do remember clearly was getting Nystatin from a naturopath 25 years ago, because the pediatricians did not diagnose yeast overgrowth in our kid even though they'd been dosing her with near-constant antibiotics for years, by that time.

I was surprised at the time because Nystatin (if I'm remembering right) was available by prescription only, and I didn't think naturopaths could do prescription meds.

I did get something from an MD for a yeast infection for myself, and I do clearly remember getting Nystatin for a later baby's yeast infection in the diaper area. I wonder why we didn't get it for our eldest from the medical establishment?

I remember a lot of books coming out on candidiasis, so maybe that (and the fact that doctors just threw more antibiotics at our eldest every time she got sick... which often happened within a week of finishing a course of antibiotics) is why I'm remembering it as "the latest fad" of the time.

I am always willing to admit I've remembered something wrong, though I try hard to be factual. I don't just throw stuff out at random. (Sorry if it seems that way. Will try harder to stick to snark more.)

[quiversR4hunting]

2 hours ago, divadivine said:

I need the Cliffs Notes. I can't even catch up. 

I suggest reading the last 2 pages of the last thread and then I scanned all these threads until I found the new links to the documents. Sorry, I don't remember what page that was on. 

The very short version - Bradrick is the petitioner he lists the home state as WA (which means something to me as a child support  worker, not a worker in WA or NC) but Kelly and kids are in NC. Also the visitation is supervised and Kelly calls all the shots when it has to do with the kids. Kelly is getting spousal support. And there is a line that Bradrick can't bring a girlfriend or boyfriend to visitation. I think that is the high level highlights.  

[Coy Koi]

5 hours ago, refugee said:

American medicine has changed a lot over the last six decades. My parents used to be able to get antibiotics (maybe it was just penicillin in those days?) prescribed over the phone.

While I obviously don't disagree that medicine has changed a lot over the last several decades, you can still get antibiotics prescribed over the phone. I just did the other day. My insurance recently started allowing (and encouraging) appointments via phone/web, and I got a UTI so I requested an appointment online and a doctor (who had no access to any of my medical records) called me a half hour later and I explained my situation and said that I knew it was a UTI because I had had one before. She didn't hesitate to electronically submit a prescription for antibiotics to the pharmacy of my choice.

I have no idea if this is a good or bad thing overall, but as a person who really hates going to the doctor, it was great for me.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

7 hours ago, refugee said:

It is not worth fighting over, but just a note: candidiasis wasn't something American MDs treated 25 years ago (our eldest is in her 30s now, and some of my mixing up facts may be due to my own age). I may be remembering wrong, but I seem to recall that it was considered one of those "quack" diagnoses, like I have heard people call "adrenal fatigue" nowadays.

Maybe a decade later (maybe two decades?) MDs started telling me to feed our younger kids yogurt after they finished a dose of antibiotics.

Believe it or not, 30 years ago, an American pediatrician put our then toddler on daily antibiotics for an entire year, as a preventive measure for recurring ear infections. If I'd known then that simply taking her off dairy would have solved the problem... (The next pediatrician, after we moved to a new location, operated on the kid's ears and put in tubes. Again, a surgical solution to a food allergy reaction.)

American medicine has changed a lot over the last six decades. My parents used to be able to get antibiotics (maybe it was just penicillin in those days?) prescribed over the phone. Of course, in those days, doctors made house calls, too. Three decades ago, MDs wrote prescriptions for antibiotics as if they were no different from sugar pills. Or maybe cure-alls. Nowadays, in the era of superbugs, they are much more cautious.

Ok, here the amount of bullshit is so big I don't even know where to start from.

Candidiasis was routinely diagnosed in the first decades of 1900. It was even noticed an increase of the number of cases since the introduction of antibiotics.  They researched for a cure and Nystatin was discovered in 1950 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nystatin

I am your daughter's age and I have serious difficulties believing that in the country that is often defined as the most advanced in the world, in1992 (25 yrs ago was 1992, not the fifties, time passes) your daughter was given a diagnosis of candidiasis and prescribed Nystatin by a naturopath and not by a doctor (btw didn't you claim that he cured her with nutrition and supplements, you never mentoned Nystatin in the other thread). It wasn't a "quack" diagnosis (as adrenal fatigue is, the two things don't compare at all) but one recognised since the beginning of the century for which existed an FDA approved cure since 1950.

And in 1992 they knew perfectly well that keeping a child on antibiotics for a year wasn't a good idea, unless there was a sufficiently serious cause, like very serious. Every class of antibiotics currently in use was discovered before the mid eighties and their side effects were already widely studied and known. I remember perfectly well that my mother (a medical lab technician) in every instance our paediatrician prescribed antibiotics always double questioned with him the necessity of their use, because they both knew that antibiotics aren't to be prescribed lightly.

I also remember that during and after antibiotics treatment I was given probiotics (not normal yogurt, its probiotics don't survive the stomach's acidity and never arrive in the gut) since an early age.

FDA is quite suspicious of probiotics and doesn't recognise them any potential benefit of strengthening the immune system. But even in the US their protective action (in around 60% of cases) in preventative care against Antibiotics Associated Diarrhoea (a common side effect) is well recognised and documented as a quick search on the Cochrane Library finds, even if security doubts remain regarding use in very vulnerable patients.

And please provide source for your claim that dairy allergy causes ear infections, the only ones I can find spew a lot of naturopathic bullshit. And please tell me how is it that a doctor had to perform surgery on her ears if the naturopath had cured her through nutrition (after that year of daily antibiotics remember)? Ah sorry I forgot it wasn't nutrition, it was Nystatin. 

[Clementine]

1 hour ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Ok, here the amount of bullshit is so big I don't even know where to start from.

Candidiasis was routinely diagnosed in the first decades of 1900. It was even noticed an increase of the number of cases since the introduction of antibiotics.  They researched for a cure and Nystatin was discovered in 1950 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nystatin

I am your daughter's age and I have serious difficulties believing that in the country that is often defined as the most advanced in the world, in1992 (25 yrs ago was 1992, not the fifties, time passes) your daughter was given a diagnosis of candidiasis and prescribed Nystatin by a naturopath and not by a doctor (btw didn't you claim that he cured her with nutrition and supplements, you never mentoned Nystatin in the other thread). It wasn't a "quack" diagnosis (as adrenal fatigue is, the two things don't compare at all) but one recognised since the beginning of the century for which existed an FDA approved cure since 1950.

And in 1992 they knew perfectly well that keeping a child on antibiotics for a year wasn't a good idea, unless there was a sufficiently serious cause, like very serious. Every class of antibiotics currently in use was discovered before the mid eighties and their side effects were already widely studied and known. I remember perfectly well that my mother (a medical lab technician) in every instance our paediatrician prescribed antibiotics always double questioned with him the necessity of their use, because they both knew that antibiotics aren't to be prescribed lightly.

I also remember that during and after antibiotics treatment I was given probiotics (not normal yogurt, its probiotics don't survive the stomach's acidity and never arrive in the gut) since an early age.

FDA is quite suspicious of probiotics and doesn't recognise them any potential benefit of strengthening the immune system. But even in the US their protective action (in around 60% of cases) in preventative care against Antibiotics Associated Diarrhoea (a common side effect) is well recognised and documented as a quick search on the Cochrane Library finds, even if security doubts remain regarding use in very vulnerable patients.

And please provide source for your claim that dairy allergy causes ear infections, the only ones I can find spew a lot of naturopathic bullshit. And please tell me how is it that a doctor had to perform surgery on her ears if the naturopath had cured her through nutrition (after that year of daily antibiotics remember)? Ah sorry I forgot it wasn't nutrition, it was Nystatin. 

Could the moderators move the candida discussion to a new thread? I don't see that this has any relevance what so ever for the Bradrick divorce.

[refugee]

2 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

And please provide source for your claim that dairy allergy causes ear infections, the only ones I can find spew a lot of naturopathic bullshit. And please tell me how is it that a doctor had to perform surgery on her ears if the naturopath had cured her through nutrition (after that year of daily antibiotics remember)? Ah sorry I forgot it wasn't nutrition, it was Nystatin. 

I had a reply to this, but have deleted it out of respect to the others in the thread. Apologies.

36 minutes ago, Clementine said:

Could the moderators move the candida discussion to a new thread? I don't see that this has any relevance what so ever for the Bradrick divorce.

Thanks, yeah, sorry. Never mind. I have a feeling that it won't make any difference, whatever I say, so I'll stop now. It's just hard to put up with being attacked and falsely accused.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

I agree that the discussion wasn't born here. I brought it here just as a recent example of how refugee's stories sometimes, when you take a closer look, have holes as big as watermelons. Then she decided to double down on the bullshit here.

ETA I agree that the discussion is unpleasant but I don't think it deserves its own thread. And it's not like we don't have even more unpleasant thread drifts sometimes. 

15 minutes ago, refugee said:

I had a reply to this, but have deleted it out of respect to the others in the thread. Apologies.

It's a pity because I really wanted to know about the correlation between ear infections and dairy allergies.

[Jencendiary]

Would y'all make a separate thread to bicker in?

[laPapessaGiovanna]

I just thought that I wanted to know what amount of credibility has a poster who claims insider knowledge of fundie world, specifically about the dowry/bride-price custom. If I have to judge by her other posts my answer is with a truckload worth of salt. Ymmv.