Mike Pence: Almost as bad as Trump but he might not get us killed

[GrumpyGran]

8 hours ago, fraurosena said:

Everybody has been wondering if the presidunce can read. But what about Pence?

 

So, is this why he can't be alone with women?

[GreyhoundFan]

There are some good twitter responses to Pence's "touching" picture. He actually had a pretty good comeback.

Yeah, blame Rubio. He's a weasel, too.

[47of74]

25 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

There are some good twitter responses to Pence's "touching" picture. He actually had a pretty good comeback.

Yeah, blame Rubio. He's a weasel, too.

My reaction was, "Yeah real mature Pence."  And even if the piece of equipment is due to be cleaned I would have replied, "Rulez - They iz 4 EVERYONE!"  Even for reich wing douche cannons.  Growing up if I had put my hands on something that said do not touch I would have gotten a good dressing down from my parents and probably several other adults. 

[candygirl200413]

Was mother not available to chaperone him? You know because he needs female adult supervision. Also because he is a literal WASP he believes rules don't apply to him.

[fraurosena]

At Private Dinners, Pence Quietly Courts Big Donors and Corporate Executives

Spoiler

Vice President Mike Pence has been courting scores of the country’s most influential donors, corporate executives and conservative political leaders over the past several months in a series of private gatherings and one-on-one conversations.

The centerpiece of the effort is a string of dinners held every few weeks at the vice president’s official residence on the grounds of the Naval Observatory in Washington. Mr. Pence and his wife, Karen, have presided over at least four such soirées, and more are in the works. Each has drawn roughly 30 to 40 guests, including a mix of wealthy donors such as the Chicago hedge fund manager Kenneth C. Griffin and the brokerage firm founder Charles Schwab, as well as Republican fund-raisers and executives from companies like Dow Chemical and the military contractor United Technologies.

The guests and their families collectively donated or helped raise millions of dollars to support the Trump-Pence ticket in 2016, and some are viewed in Republican finance circles as likely supporters for two new groups created to advocate for Mr. Trump, Mr. Pence, their legislative agenda and congressional allies. The dinner guest lists were curated in part by two of Mr. Pence’s closest advisers, who have also played important roles in starting the new political groups, America First Policies and America First Action. Mr. Pence has appeared at recent events outside his official residence with prospective donors to the groups.

The off-site events and dinners at Mr. Pence’s residence underscore the vice president’s outreach to donors for an administration led by a president who dislikes courting contributors, who often expect personal attention in exchange for their support. Mr. Pence’s activities have fueled speculation among Republican insiders that he is laying the foundation for his own political future, independent from Mr. Trump.

If nothing else, the assiduous donor maintenance by Mr. Pence and his team reflects his acceptance of a Washington reality that Mr. Trump sharply criticized during the campaign, when he assailed some of his party’s most generous donors as puppet masters who manipulated the political process to further their own interests at the expense of working people. Mr. Trump frequently said that because of his own real estate fortune, he didn’t need or want support from wealthy donors or the political groups known as “super PACs,” to which donors can give seven-figure donations and which Mr. Trump blasted as “very corrupt.”

Mr. Pence’s aides point out that he also has dinners at the residence for groups other than donors, including members of Congress, world leaders, military families, civic leaders and friends. They cast the donor dinners as an effort to build support for the administration’s agenda, not for Mr. Pence personally.

“Mike Pence is the ultimate team player and works every day to help the president succeed,” said Robert T. Grand, an Indianapolis lawyer who helped raise money for Mr. Pence’s campaigns in Indiana for Congress and for governor. Mr. Grand attended a dinner at the vice president’s residence in June. “There were a lot of folks who, if you were vice president, you would want to meet,’’ Mr. Grand said. “Corporate executives, other government leaders, people from past administrations, not just donors.”

He added that “any administration, past and present, has an interest in getting to know folks. If you’re an incumbent president and vice president, then that’s part of what you do.”

Mr. Pence’s office declined to release the lists of guests invited to the dinners, which have not appeared on schedules released by the vice president’s office to the news media. Marc Lotter, Mr. Pence’s press secretary, called the dinners “private” and said that the vice president had not held any political fund-raisers at his residence, which would be complicated by a law barring the solicitation of political contributions in government buildings.

But the dinners fit a long tradition of presidential administrations leveraging the grand trappings of the office to reward loyal supporters or to induce influential people to become supportive. President Bill Clinton drew ire for inviting major donors to his 1996 re-election campaign to stay overnight in the White House’s Lincoln Bedroom, for instance, though his team drew an explicit link between the contributions and the rewards, one that Mr. Pence’s advisers have been careful to avoid. President Barack Obama also entertained donors at the White House, as did former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. when he lived at the Naval Observatory residence.

Mr. Pence typically kicks off his dinners with a cocktail hour at which he recounts the history of the taxpayer-funded residence, followed by a brief assessment of his administration’s legislative and foreign policy agendas and a question-and-answer session, according to guests. After people are seated for dinner at four or five separate tables, they said, Mr. Pence makes his way around the room, chatting for a few minutes with each guest.

Mr. Pence’s willingness to use his residence to host wealthy donors has been reassuring to Republican finance and political operatives, who worry that their congressional candidates could be severely hampered if they faced financial shortfalls during 2018 midterm elections, when Mr. Trump’s unpopularity is expected to create strong headwinds.

The dinners are “a smart way for Vice President Pence and his team to recognize major supporters of his and the president’s agenda, and build resources that are going to be necessary for the upcoming battles,” said Charles Spies, a leading Republican election lawyer.

Mr. Pence, who came to Mr. Trump’s ticket with a reputation as an enthusiastic cultivator of wealthy patrons, has worked to win over donors who clashed with Mr. Trump during the campaign, among them the billionaire industrialist Charles G. Koch. Mr. Pence spent nearly an hour last month with Mr. Koch in a private meeting at a Colorado Springs hotel, where the vice president praised Mr. Trump for his leadership in pushing to fulfill campaign promises and in selecting strong cabinet nominees, according to James Davis, an executive at a Koch-backed group who attended the meeting.

Mr. Pence also summoned about a dozen megadonors, including some who had not supported Mr. Trump during the campaign, for a legislative briefing in the White House’s Roosevelt Room on June 9. Mr. Trump stopped by the gathering briefly to greet the donors, according to an administration official and others briefed on the gathering.

Associates say Mr. Pence has discussed with the president the importance of encouraging major donors to support America First Policies. Mr. Pence signaled his own support for the group by appearing with his wife at a reception in Washington this spring for prospective donors to America First Policies that was hosted by a fund-raising consultant, Jeff Miller.

The group was founded soon after Mr. Trump’s inauguration by political operatives outside the administration, including two close advisers to Mr. Pence — Nick Ayers and Marty Obst — who helped arrange the Naval Observatory dinners and attended some of them.

In March Mr. Obst, who was a top fund-raiser for Mr. Trump’s campaign and inauguration, told Politico that America First Policies had received $25 million in commitments and had collected more than half that money. In recent weeks, America First Policies has spent money on one advertising campaign questioning the national security bona fides of the Democratic nominee in a special election for a Georgia congressional seat, and another chastising Senator Dean Heller, Republican of Nevada, for his opposition to the Senate health care bill that would supplant the Affordable Care Act.

While Mr. Ayers has stepped away from America First Policies and related groups in recent days as he prepares to take a position as Mr. Pence’s new chief of staff, the team behind the political groups is ramping up its efforts.

In May, Mr. Obst and Mr. Ayers founded Great America Committee, a political action committee to fund Mr. Pence’s political operation — an unusual step for a sitting vice president. Typically, vice presidents rely on their respective party committees for such functions. This past Thursday Great America Committee held a reception for prospective donors at the Washington offices of the powerful lobbying firm BGR.

America First Policies, a nonprofit required to spend the majority of its money on costs unrelated to partisan political campaigns, has in the meantime spun off a super PAC called America First Action that will have more legal flexibility to directly advocate for the election of Mr. Trump’s allies and the defeat of his opponents. As a super PAC, America First Action is required to publicly disclose its donors but America First Policies is not.

Katie Walsh, a senior adviser to America First Policies who has attended some of Mr. Pence’s dinners, said the group did not use the gatherings to prospect for donations.

Although Ms. Walsh said that some attendees “happen to support” groups backing the administration, “a lot of those folks have never given to anything related to Trump or Pence, and are leaders of businesses and industries that have worked, and continue to work, with the administration to get things done.”

Some dinner guests — including Andrew N. Liveris, the chief executive of Dow Chemical, and Gregory J. Hayes, the chairman and chief executive of United Technologies — have donated either primarily to Democrats or to a mix of Democrats and Republicans.

Other guests — including the hedge fund manager Mr. Griffin and the investors Ronald Weiser of Michigan; Lewis Eisenberg of Florida and Doug Deason, Ray Washburne and Tom Hicks Jr., all of Texas — were significant donors or fund-raisers for Mr. Trump’s campaign and the committees supporting it. Mr. Trump has since nominated Mr. Washburne to head the Overseas Private Investment Corporation.

If you ask me, Pencey-poo is hedging his bets...

[PreciousPantsofDoom]

Holy Jumping Jesus Christ!   I've been avoiding reading this thread because I wanted to cling on to the faint hope that Pence was just at a minorly lame level of bad. Nope. I've only read a couple of pages back so far and several articles and Holy Shit! This guy would just be replacing one disastrous asshole with another.  

Actually, it's got me wondering about those in political positions in my own country too. I haven't ever been all that interested in politics (my current obsession with the Trump administration is completely out of character for me) I am not naive enough to think there is such a thing as a perfect politician (or person for that matter) but I think there is a difference between overlooking the odd minor mistake (a comment I might not agree with or some other minor mistep) and a pattern of downright crooked and disingenuous behaviour. 

[fraurosena]

1 hour ago, PreciousPantsofDoom said:

I haven't ever been all that interested in politics (my current obsession with the Trump administration is completely out of character for me)

Oh, thank goodness!

I'm not the only one... 

[EmiGirl]

So I've been thi nkikng on the whole graham rule deal. My dad wouldn't go out alone with a woman when he was alive because in our small town there's quite a few people who actively try to start trouble and my family is very well known. So I can kind of see that. 

For dad it wasn't that he couldn't control himself, it was avoiding the appearance that he was doing somethinf he wasn't supposed to. 

But one would assume that in Pence's line of work people would first assume it was business and she herself  would be i important enough to identify and confirm whether or not it was business. 

[candygirl200413]

@EmiGirl That is totally justified and I understand that completely. But yeah with Pence I just think he honestly feels like he has no control and the people he surrounds himself with think the same like every single fundie family.

[Childless]

6 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

@EmiGirl That is totally justified and I understand that completely. But yeah with Pence I just think he honestly feels like he has no control and the people he surrounds himself with think the same like every single fundie family.

Oh, that's lovely.  The man one Russian investigation away from the presidency thinks he can't control himself around half the U.S. population.  Christ, what the hell is wrong with the GOP?

[GreyhoundFan]

8 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

I just think he honestly feels like he has no control and the people he surrounds himself with think the same like every single fundie family.

If ebil wimmenfolk weren't so tempting, he would have it so much easier. I bet he applauds the stupid "no shoulders and no toes" rules in the House of Representatives. 

2 hours ago, Childless said:

Oh, that's lovely.  The man one Russian investigation away from the presidency thinks he can't control himself around half the U.S. population.  Christ, what the hell is wrong with the GOP?

I'm hoping the Russia investigation takes him down, too. There's no way he's not involved at least a little. The formerly GOP (they're no longer grand) was taken over by extremist nutjobs in the early 1990s. They've gotten worse and worse since then. They scream about the Taliban, but they are becoming more and more like them, only Christian, not Muslim.

[GreyhoundFan]

"Is Mike Pence betting it will all come crashing down on Trump?"

Spoiler

Vice President Pence is spending considerable time cultivating big-money Republican donors at small, private events, including hedge fund managers and executives from brokerage houses, chemical giants and defense contractors, Kenneth P. Vogel reports at the New York Times. Many of these events, whose participants are kept secret from the media and are omitted from Pence’s public schedule, have been taking place at the vice-presidential residence at the Naval Observatory, as well as other nongovernment venues.

While cultivating support from deep-pocketed business interests is nothing new in GOP politics, Pence’s activities raise the question of whether he is doing this for Trump-Pence 2020 — or for himself. As Vogel’s piece points out, Pence’s intimate confabs with wealthy donors and conservative power brokers “have fueled speculation among Republican insiders that he is laying the foundation for his own political future, independent from Mr. Trump.”

All of this suggests something important about President Trump. Despite Pence’s protestations to the contrary, the vice president looks to be preparing for his own political future. Beyond this clear signal about his own political ambitions, Pence’s actions raise the question of whether he has lost confidence in Trump’s ability to come out of the Russia investigation unscathed.

This is not the first time that Pence, in his short tenure as Trump’s vice president, has sparked chatter about his political ambitions — unyoked from Trump. In May, Pence filed paperwork with the Federal Election Commission, forming his own political action committee, the Great America Committee, marking “the first time a sitting vice president has formed such a separate political arm,” NBC News reported at the time.

The Great America Committee is apparently not wasting any time. Vogel reports that last Thursday, it “held a reception for prospective donors at the Washington offices of the powerful lobbying firm BGR.”

In holding donor events, Great America Committee will do nothing to quell speculation about Pence’s intentions. When he first launched the PAC in May, Pence aides attempted to play down the move by saying its resources will be used to support Republican congressional candidates in the 2018 midterms. But that characterization didn’t diminish how unusual this was: Traditionally, vice presidents tap the resources of their party to support congressional candidates, rather than create their own fundraising organization.

It’s highly unusual, if not unprecedented, for a first-term vice president to appear to separate his election activities, even if aimed at congressional races, from the president he serves. But the timing of Pence’s formation of the Great America Committee suggests the move may have something to do with judgments about Trump’s future, too.

Pence filed the paperwork on May 17, eight days after Trump fired FBI Director James Comey, and the same day that Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein appointed Robert S. Mueller III to be special counsel in the Russia investigation. Indeed, the two weeks before Pence filed the Great America papers were rife with some of the most explosive news stories about the Russia scandal to date.

To review: On May 8, former acting attorney general Sally Yates testified to the Senate Intelligence Committee that the White House kept former national security adviser Michael Flynn for 18 days after she told the White House counsel that he was vulnerable to Russian blackmail. (Pence has always sought to distance himself from the Flynn affair: After Trump asked for Flynn’s resignation in February, Pence maintained that Flynn misled him about the conversations he had with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, playing the part of the duped, but loyal, soldier.)

Then, after that Yates testimony on May 8, Trump engaged in probably the most self-destructive sequence of actions of his presidency. On May 9, he fired Comey. The next day, he met with Kislyak and Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov in the Oval Office, telling them that firing the “real nut job” Comey had eased “great pressure” on him from the Russia investigation. And the day after that, Trump admitted on national television that he had fired Comey because of the “Russia thing.” Finally, on May 12, Trump posted his tweet hinting that he may have recorded his conversations with Comey. (He hadn’t.)

One week later, Pence filed the Great America Committee papers, marking his break with the traditional arrangement for political fundraising between presidents and vice presidents.

The traditional arrangement is based on the expectation that the president and vice president will together run for reelection. But Pence’s activities seem to signal doubts about whether there will even be a Trump-Pence ticket to run in 2020. We are not yet six months into Trump’s term, and each new revelation in the burgeoning Russia investigation seems to heighten the possibility that Trump could either no longer be president, or at least no longer be a viable reelection candidate, in 2020.

Pence is perhaps preparing for just that potentiality. If he were confident that the Russia investigation is “fake news” or a “hoax,” as Trump has maintained, he would be hewing to the traditional vice-presidential path. Instead, he’s making his own plans — which may show just how worried he is that the Russia investigation is going to come crashing down on his president.

In short, yes, he is. Not that I want him occupying the WH.

[GrumpyGran]

4 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

"Is Mike Pence betting it will all come crashing down on Trump?"

  Hide contents

Vice President Pence is spending considerable time cultivating big-money Republican donors at small, private events, including hedge fund managers and executives from brokerage houses, chemical giants and defense contractors, Kenneth P. Vogel reports at the New York Times. Many of these events, whose participants are kept secret from the media and are omitted from Pence’s public schedule, have been taking place at the vice-presidential residence at the Naval Observatory, as well as other nongovernment venues.

While cultivating support from deep-pocketed business interests is nothing new in GOP politics, Pence’s activities raise the question of whether he is doing this for Trump-Pence 2020 — or for himself. As Vogel’s piece points out, Pence’s intimate confabs with wealthy donors and conservative power brokers “have fueled speculation among Republican insiders that he is laying the foundation for his own political future, independent from Mr. Trump.”

All of this suggests something important about President Trump. Despite Pence’s protestations to the contrary, the vice president looks to be preparing for his own political future. Beyond this clear signal about his own political ambitions, Pence’s actions raise the question of whether he has lost confidence in Trump’s ability to come out of the Russia investigation unscathed.

This is not the first time that Pence, in his short tenure as Trump’s vice president, has sparked chatter about his political ambitions — unyoked from Trump. In May, Pence filed paperwork with the Federal Election Commission, forming his own political action committee, the Great America Committee, marking “the first time a sitting vice president has formed such a separate political arm,” NBC News reported at the time.

The Great America Committee is apparently not wasting any time. Vogel reports that last Thursday, it “held a reception for prospective donors at the Washington offices of the powerful lobbying firm BGR.”

In holding donor events, Great America Committee will do nothing to quell speculation about Pence’s intentions. When he first launched the PAC in May, Pence aides attempted to play down the move by saying its resources will be used to support Republican congressional candidates in the 2018 midterms. But that characterization didn’t diminish how unusual this was: Traditionally, vice presidents tap the resources of their party to support congressional candidates, rather than create their own fundraising organization.

It’s highly unusual, if not unprecedented, for a first-term vice president to appear to separate his election activities, even if aimed at congressional races, from the president he serves. But the timing of Pence’s formation of the Great America Committee suggests the move may have something to do with judgments about Trump’s future, too.

Pence filed the paperwork on May 17, eight days after Trump fired FBI Director James Comey, and the same day that Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein appointed Robert S. Mueller III to be special counsel in the Russia investigation. Indeed, the two weeks before Pence filed the Great America papers were rife with some of the most explosive news stories about the Russia scandal to date.

To review: On May 8, former acting attorney general Sally Yates testified to the Senate Intelligence Committee that the White House kept former national security adviser Michael Flynn for 18 days after she told the White House counsel that he was vulnerable to Russian blackmail. (Pence has always sought to distance himself from the Flynn affair: After Trump asked for Flynn’s resignation in February, Pence maintained that Flynn misled him about the conversations he had with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, playing the part of the duped, but loyal, soldier.)

Then, after that Yates testimony on May 8, Trump engaged in probably the most self-destructive sequence of actions of his presidency. On May 9, he fired Comey. The next day, he met with Kislyak and Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov in the Oval Office, telling them that firing the “real nut job” Comey had eased “great pressure” on him from the Russia investigation. And the day after that, Trump admitted on national television that he had fired Comey because of the “Russia thing.” Finally, on May 12, Trump posted his tweet hinting that he may have recorded his conversations with Comey. (He hadn’t.)

One week later, Pence filed the Great America Committee papers, marking his break with the traditional arrangement for political fundraising between presidents and vice presidents.

The traditional arrangement is based on the expectation that the president and vice president will together run for reelection. But Pence’s activities seem to signal doubts about whether there will even be a Trump-Pence ticket to run in 2020. We are not yet six months into Trump’s term, and each new revelation in the burgeoning Russia investigation seems to heighten the possibility that Trump could either no longer be president, or at least no longer be a viable reelection candidate, in 2020.

Pence is perhaps preparing for just that potentiality. If he were confident that the Russia investigation is “fake news” or a “hoax,” as Trump has maintained, he would be hewing to the traditional vice-presidential path. Instead, he’s making his own plans — which may show just how worried he is that the Russia investigation is going to come crashing down on his president.

In short, yes, he is. Not that I want him occupying the WH.

I did not know about his little committee. So this raises a question: does he believe that Trump will no longer be President in two years or is he planning to actually mount a campaign against a sitting President in his own party. The latter would be a bold move. And imagine the venom from the Trump supporters and Trump himself. To me this indicates that he knows there is more out there, in fact some very serious stuff.

And what is with these right-wing fools and their ridiculously unctuous names? Imma gonna start my own PAC call it The Even Greater America Committee.

[fraurosena]

It's my firm belief that Pence is up to his eyeballs in all of the shit surrounding the campaign/the administration. He most definitely is not an innocent bystander. He's the VP for crying out loud! Of course he knows and is involved himself. There is a reason why Manafort was pushing for his candidacy as VP. Also, we all know he knew about Mike Flynn, and lied about it. And there is probably much more that we don't know of yet.

However, this was just released in the last couple of hours:

Pence distances himself from latest Russia bombshell, saying Trump Jr. meeting was 'before he joined the campaign'

Quote

[...]

A statement from Pence's press secretary noted that the meeting happened before he was named as then-Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump's running mate in July.

"The vice president is working every day to advance the president's agenda," Marc Lotter, Pence's press secretary, said in a statement. "He was not aware of the meeting. He is also not focused on stories about the campaign — especially those pertaining to the time before he joined the campaign."

[...]

This might just be the first step in distancing himself more and more from the presidunce and his other cronies. We should keep a wary eye on him from now on. My spidey-sense is beeping... 

[Cartmann99]

35 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

This might just be the first step in distancing himself more and more from the presidunce and his other cronies. We should keep a wary eye on him from now on. My spidey-sense is beeping... 

The tornado siren is going off, and Pence and Mother are in the bathtub desperately trying to pull their mattress over their heads before it hits their house.

Mike honey, you aren't fooling anybody except the Fox News crowd by playing dumb right now. You rolled the dice and lost, so be an adult and accept the consequences.

[GrumpyGran]

53 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

It's my firm belief that Pence is up to his eyeballs in all of the shit surrounding the campaign/the administration. He most definitely is not an innocent bystander. He's the VP for crying out loud! Of course he knows and is involved himself. There is a reason why Manafort was pushing for his candidacy as VP. Also, we all know he knew about Mike Flynn, and lied about it. And there is probably much more that we don't know of yet.

However, this was just released in the last couple of hours:

Pence distances himself from latest Russia bombshell, saying Trump Jr. meeting was 'before he joined the campaign'

This might just be the first step in distancing himself more and more from the presidunce and his other cronies. We should keep a wary eye on him from now on. My spidey-sense is beeping... 

What a weird statement. There's something very off about it. He's "not focused on the campaign"? Wouldn't something along the lines of "This was before he joined the campaign so he can't really address that as he had no involvement in setting up meetings." be better? Or maybe his press secretary is just as incompetent as the rest of this administration's press secretaries.

Edited July 11, 2017 by GrumpyGran
because it didn't make sense!

[candygirl200413]

I feel like we are getting so close for it to be storming that yes things will be reveled with Pence's involvement.

[GreyhoundFan]

On today's episode of "Punked", guest star Mike "Constipated Grandpa" Pence: "Pence told high-school students good leaders are humble. Then he praised Trump."

Spoiler

So much for that speculation about Vice President Mike Pence distancing himself from President Trump amid the uproar over Trump Jr.'s Russia emails.

On Wednesday at American University, Pence, who called those news reports "offensive," delivered a speech that was dripping with adulation for his boss. Speaking to the National Student Leadership Conference, Pence glorified Trump as someone "who literally embodies American leadership." He called "The Art of the Deal," Trump's book from 30 years ago, "actually an American classic" that "holds words of wisdom for all future leaders that are gathered here today." He told the gathered group of outstanding high school students that "you couldn't have picked a better time to study leadership" and "at this very moment, we're seeing the bold leadership of an American president on the world stage."

Yet the praise didn't end there. Pence went on to hold up Trump as an example when he talked about the importance of humility in leaders. "Our president, he leads by asking questions and he listens," Pence told the students, sharing the story of a meeting with tech executives during the transition, when he said Trump asked questions and listened to the executives for much of two hours. "And I believe that reflects the kind of humility that will enhance your ability to be a leader."

Trump may be many things, but humble is not one of them. Even for anyone who may hold up "The Art of the Deal" as a brilliant guide to business or who believes a man who says "I alone can fix it" embodies American democratic leadership, it defies reality to think of Trump as a leader who reflects humility. The president brags constantly, appears unwilling to admit his mistakes, and remains focused on outside measures of his popularity, whether they be ratings, polls or crowd size.

Yet there was his No. 2, holding up humility as one of the three key ingredients for good leadership and using Trump as an example. Those three essentials -- which he also laid out at his U.S. Naval Academy commencement speech in May -- include an orientation toward authority, an aptitude for self-control (notably, he did not reference his impulsively tweeting boss in this passage) and a capacity for humility. "It's often in too scarce a supply in our society today," Pence said, "The truth of the matter is that some of the most compelling leaders I've ever known in my life are people that are focused on others more than themselves, are considerate to others."

Pence, of course, made no mention of all the insults his boss has hurled on Twitter. Or to his speech accepting the nomination at the Republican National Convention, when he boldly claimed that "nobody knows the system better than me." Or how Trump began his presidency by speaking in front of the CIA's Memorial Wall about what "looked like a million, million and a half people" at his inauguration and how "God looked down and he said we're not going to let it rain on your speech."

The list of Trump's boasts are endless. He bragged as his presidency's 100-day milestone neared, saying that "no administration has accomplished more in the first 90 days," later amending the claim to make an exception for FDR. He bragged that "a lot of people have said" his speech in front of a Joint Session of Congress "was the single best speech ever made in that chamber."

He recounted in interviews -- incorrectly, according to the Democratic lawmaker in question -- that Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-Md.) had said he would "go down as one of the great presidents in the history of our country." He's crowed about his ratings. About the size of his electoral college win. Even about polls that showed less than half the country approve of his performance.

Humility as a trait in leaders, of course, is much more than just a willingness to not gloat about your latest achievement or repeat others' accolades at every turn. It includes a capacity to admit your own shortcomings. It involves sharing mistakes publicly and vulnerably so you and your team can learn from them. It consists of the ability to apologize when errors are made, to forgive others rather than hold grudges and to deflect attention toward your team rather than yourself.

At least publicly, Trump rarely if ever does these things. In his first full Cabinet meeting in June, Trump listened as his team engaged in a round of on-camera fawning that drew comparisons to "King Lear." He has lashed out at people who criticize him. Even when members of his own party suggested he apologize for saying President Obama tapped his phones or that Britain's main surveillance agency had spied on him, he didn't.

After the initial healthcare bill he pushed failed, he was asked to reflect on lessons learned: "Just another day in paradise, okay?" he told The Post's Robert Costa. And when asked whether he regrets any of his tweets, he has said "I don’t regret anything, because there is nothing you can do about it."

Trump may indeed ask a lot of questions and listen closely in meetings -- particularly in those with CEOs, or even "every day," as Pence said in the speech. And as a candidate, Trump himself may have said that he has "much more humility than a lot of people would think" and doesn't show it because "I'd rather not play my cards. I want to be unpredictable."

But truly humble leaders do much more than listen in meetings. And they don't hide their humility from the world. They demonstrate it whenever possible, setting an example by not constantly touting their successes, by redirecting attention toward their team, and by admitting freely and publicly when they've made a mistake and what they've learned from it. That's the sort of humility that makes for good leadership.

 

[Howl]

Mike Pence is magnitudes scarier than Trump. Many magnitudes.  Exponentially more dangerous.  He's a true believer, and dominionist and protege of dark prince Erik Prince.  Were Pence to become president, we would be a de facto theocracy the moment he is sworn in. 

[fraurosena]

I must say that his continued nauseatingly and sychophantic praise of the presidunce is quite heartening to see.

It nullifies any attempts at distancing himself.

[GrumpyGran]

16 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

On today's episode of "Punked", guest star Mike "Constipated Grandpa" Pence: "Pence told high-school students good leaders are humble. Then he praised Trump."

  Reveal hidden contents

So much for that speculation about Vice President Mike Pence distancing himself from President Trump amid the uproar over Trump Jr.'s Russia emails.

On Wednesday at American University, Pence, who called those news reports "offensive," delivered a speech that was dripping with adulation for his boss. Speaking to the National Student Leadership Conference, Pence glorified Trump as someone "who literally embodies American leadership." He called "The Art of the Deal," Trump's book from 30 years ago, "actually an American classic" that "holds words of wisdom for all future leaders that are gathered here today." He told the gathered group of outstanding high school students that "you couldn't have picked a better time to study leadership" and "at this very moment, we're seeing the bold leadership of an American president on the world stage."

Yet the praise didn't end there. Pence went on to hold up Trump as an example when he talked about the importance of humility in leaders. "Our president, he leads by asking questions and he listens," Pence told the students, sharing the story of a meeting with tech executives during the transition, when he said Trump asked questions and listened to the executives for much of two hours. "And I believe that reflects the kind of humility that will enhance your ability to be a leader."

Trump may be many things, but humble is not one of them. Even for anyone who may hold up "The Art of the Deal" as a brilliant guide to business or who believes a man who says "I alone can fix it" embodies American democratic leadership, it defies reality to think of Trump as a leader who reflects humility. The president brags constantly, appears unwilling to admit his mistakes, and remains focused on outside measures of his popularity, whether they be ratings, polls or crowd size.

Yet there was his No. 2, holding up humility as one of the three key ingredients for good leadership and using Trump as an example. Those three essentials -- which he also laid out at his U.S. Naval Academy commencement speech in May -- include an orientation toward authority, an aptitude for self-control (notably, he did not reference his impulsively tweeting boss in this passage) and a capacity for humility. "It's often in too scarce a supply in our society today," Pence said, "The truth of the matter is that some of the most compelling leaders I've ever known in my life are people that are focused on others more than themselves, are considerate to others."

Pence, of course, made no mention of all the insults his boss has hurled on Twitter. Or to his speech accepting the nomination at the Republican National Convention, when he boldly claimed that "nobody knows the system better than me." Or how Trump began his presidency by speaking in front of the CIA's Memorial Wall about what "looked like a million, million and a half people" at his inauguration and how "God looked down and he said we're not going to let it rain on your speech."

The list of Trump's boasts are endless. He bragged as his presidency's 100-day milestone neared, saying that "no administration has accomplished more in the first 90 days," later amending the claim to make an exception for FDR. He bragged that "a lot of people have said" his speech in front of a Joint Session of Congress "was the single best speech ever made in that chamber."

He recounted in interviews -- incorrectly, according to the Democratic lawmaker in question -- that Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-Md.) had said he would "go down as one of the great presidents in the history of our country." He's crowed about his ratings. About the size of his electoral college win. Even about polls that showed less than half the country approve of his performance.

Humility as a trait in leaders, of course, is much more than just a willingness to not gloat about your latest achievement or repeat others' accolades at every turn. It includes a capacity to admit your own shortcomings. It involves sharing mistakes publicly and vulnerably so you and your team can learn from them. It consists of the ability to apologize when errors are made, to forgive others rather than hold grudges and to deflect attention toward your team rather than yourself.

At least publicly, Trump rarely if ever does these things. In his first full Cabinet meeting in June, Trump listened as his team engaged in a round of on-camera fawning that drew comparisons to "King Lear." He has lashed out at people who criticize him. Even when members of his own party suggested he apologize for saying President Obama tapped his phones or that Britain's main surveillance agency had spied on him, he didn't.

After the initial healthcare bill he pushed failed, he was asked to reflect on lessons learned: "Just another day in paradise, okay?" he told The Post's Robert Costa. And when asked whether he regrets any of his tweets, he has said "I don’t regret anything, because there is nothing you can do about it."

Trump may indeed ask a lot of questions and listen closely in meetings -- particularly in those with CEOs, or even "every day," as Pence said in the speech. And as a candidate, Trump himself may have said that he has "much more humility than a lot of people would think" and doesn't show it because "I'd rather not play my cards. I want to be unpredictable."

But truly humble leaders do much more than listen in meetings. And they don't hide their humility from the world. They demonstrate it whenever possible, setting an example by not constantly touting their successes, by redirecting attention toward their team, and by admitting freely and publicly when they've made a mistake and what they've learned from it. That's the sort of humility that makes for good leadership.

 

Wow, that was weird. As you all know, my tin-foil hat is shiny and very pointy.

I think this was for Trump. This is clearly the type of praise he loves and as we know, those who praise him are viewed as his friends, special people, tremendous people, and are praised in return. I wonder if Trump hasn't expressed some reservations regarding Pence in light of his establishment of his own committee, or whatever he called it.

Pence may figure that it it is in his best interest to stay close to Trump, at least in Trump's eyes. It's a win-win for him. He doesn't piss off the Trumpanzees and it allows him continuous access to Trump, where he might pick up incriminating evidence for a future impeachment. And who wins there? Pence! He'll maintain plausible deniability when Trump goes down and this very thing helps him avoid any appearance of back-stabbing. Trump is easy to fool and Pence knows how to do it.

[fraurosena]

1 hour ago, GrumpyGran said:

He'll maintain plausible deniability when Trump goes down

Nah, I don't think so... not with what we know about his lying and obfuscating about Mike Flynn. Not only was he head of the transition team (and as such he was responsible and accountable for security clearances) and he didn't do his job as diligently as he should have, there is also the fact that a letter was sent to the transisiton team telling them all about Flynn in December. 

So Pence may deny knowing all about it, but it isn't plausible AT ALL. Not even in the legal sense.

When the presidunce goes down, the whole damn stack of dominoes is going down, and that includes Pence.

 

[GrumpyGran]

16 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

Nah, I don't think so... not with what we know about his lying and obfuscating about Mike Flynn. Not only was he head of the transition team (and as such he was responsible and accountable for security clearances) and he didn't do his job as diligently as he should have, there is also the fact that a letter was sent to the transisiton team telling them all about Flynn in December. 

So Pence may deny knowing all about it, but it isn't plausible AT ALL. Not even in the legal sense.

When the presidunce goes down, the whole damn stack of dominoes is going down, and that includes Pence.

 

No, I mean he is going to try to protect his deniability with regard to Trump being removed, if that happens. He'll pretend he had nothing to do with it because he will need Trump supporters to get re-elected in 2020. This latest mess is a problem because I believe those who want to move Trump aside want it to be based on Trump being unsuitable for the job, or on emoluments. Not the election itself. Pence could well end up in hot water there.

But for the whole thing to come down, some Republicans are going to have to turn on their party. Not sure that will ever happen. In reality we need to take the House in 2018 at the least.

[fraurosena]

27 minutes ago, GrumpyGran said:

No, I mean he is going to try to protect his deniability with regard to Trump being removed, if that happens. He'll pretend he had nothing to do with it because he will need Trump supporters to get re-elected in 2020. This latest mess is a problem because I believe those who want to move Trump aside want it to be based on Trump being unsuitable for the job, or on emoluments. Not the election itself. Pence could well end up in hot water there.

But for the whole thing to come down, some Republicans are going to have to turn on their party. Not sure that will ever happen. In reality we need to take the House in 2018 at the least.

I agree that he's going to attempt to deny at the very least! But I think that once procedures start against the tangerine toddler, no matter what basis is used to remove him, Pence will go down too. Because the presidunce will do his utmost to blame others for everything, Pence among them.

You're right about the Repubs. If irrefutable evidence of collusion / attempted collusion like Junior's emails doesn't get them all up in arms, then nothing will. The Democrats NEED to get their shit together, gather under an inspiring leader, and win in 2018. 

[GrumpyGran]

19 hours ago, fraurosena said:

You're right about the Repubs. If irrefutable evidence of collusion / attempted collusion like Junior's emails doesn't get them all up in arms, then nothing will. The Democrats NEED to get their shit together, gather under an inspiring leader, and win in 2018. 

From your mouth to Rufus' ear. And Pence, I'm going to start having nightmares about him, I swear. It's like in the horror movie when everyone realizes that the killer is in the house so they run out, jump in the car to escape, and then realize that there are two killers and the other one is in the back seat. Except we have a long succession line of killers.