Dillards 27 - Allergies, Fever, and the Dangers of Being a White Baby

[nausicaa]

Just now, PennySycamore said:

What they used at Jonestown was Flav -R-Aid .  If it's the Aunt Wick's Flav-R-Aid I had when I was a kid, it's terrble.  Cheap and weak with undissolved bit of Fav-R-Aid powder in the cup.  It is truly vile even without cyanide.

Ah, Flav-R-Aid! I will make a mental note of that. Figures Jim Jones's cheap ass wouldn't even let them have the good stuff on their last day.

Also,  at the bolded.

[front hugs > duggs]

So I did not know about Jonestown at all because it happened before I was born and it didn't seem to make the history curriculum in 90's NJ. This right here is why I love FJ. You truly do learn something new everyday. I spent half my work day on Wikipedia looking up Jonestown, People's Temple, and Jones himself. Thanks y'all! 

[Chickenbutt]

11 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

So I did not know about Jonestown at all because it happened before I was born and it didn't seem to make the history curriculum in 90's NJ. This right here is why I love FJ. You truly do learn something new everyday. I spent half my work day on Wikipedia looking up Jonestown, People's Temple, and Jones himself. Thanks y'all! 

Gosh, you just made me feel really, really old.....lol.

[luxfilia]

I learned about Jonestown from my mom, and later in my current events ("recent" history) class in high school, which was in the early 2000s. That was a cool class. We talked about the Tylenol murders, baby Jessica in the well, Waco, etc.

[Gillyweed]

5 minutes ago, luxfilia said:

We talked about the Tylenol murders, baby Jessica in the well, Waco

Care to share on these subjects? They sound interesting. 

[Cleopatra7]

9 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

So I did not know about Jonestown at all because it happened before I was born and it didn't seem to make the history curriculum in 90's NJ. This right here is why I love FJ. You truly do learn something new everyday. I spent half my work day on Wikipedia looking up Jonestown, People's Temple, and Jones himself. Thanks y'all! 

If you really want to go down the Jonestown rabbit hole, go to the Alternative Considerations on Jonestown site, which contains tons of primary source documents gotten from FOIA requests, a full list with pictures of everyone who died, scholarly essays, survivor accounts, and much more:

http://jonestown.sdsu.edu

The woman who runs the site, Rebecca Moore, is a religious studies scholar who has devoted her entire adult life to studying Jonestown after her two sisters and nephew (who was father by Jim Jones himself) died in the tragedy. Some people claim Moore is a apologist for Jones, which I think is silly. As some in religious studies as well, I know that you can't use the word "cult" in an academic setting and expect to be taken seriously. Calling Jonestown a new religious movement is correct. Plus, she's had to come to terms with the fact that not only did her older sister directly or indirectly kill her own child (I.e., she gave him the poison herself or authorized another adult to do it), but that both sisters were involved in the planning and execution of the deaths of hundreds of people, including children and the elderly. 

In terms of books, your best bet to start with is Raven by Tim Reiterman and John Jacobs, which you should be able to get cheap from Amazon or your public library. Reiterman was one of the reporters present in Jonestown on the last day, and I think he was shot, but obviously survived.

[Chickenbutt]

@Gillyweed

Tylenol Tampering case

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1878063,00.html

Jessica McClure (Baby in the well)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_McClure

That should get you started.

[twinmama]

51 minutes ago, luxfilia said:

baby Jessica in the well

LOL I was obsessed with the baby Jessica in the well thing when it happened! I cut out articles from the newspaper about it and all (note: I was like 7 so it's not as crazy as it might sound). And they made a tv movie about it.

[onekidanddone]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/how-an-innocent-man-wound-up-dead-in-el-salvadors-justice-system/2017/03/16/7144e7fc-dd13-11e6-8902-610fe486791c_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_elsalvador-230pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.16813a1044be

Sure Dullards I'm sure your four months of sunning yourselves on the beach baptizing people in the ocean and handing out cheep lollipops is going to  make a huge difference.

[Cheetah]

4 minutes ago, twinmama said:

LOL I was obsessed with the baby Jessica in the well thing when it happened! I cut out articles from the newspaper about it and all (note: I was like 7 so it's not as crazy as it might sound). And they made a tv movie about it.

All grown up Baby Jessica is in the People magazine a week or two ago.  Here's the link:

http://people.com/human-interest/baby-jessica-30-years-later-my-life-is-a-miracle/

1 hour ago, Chickenbutt said:

Gosh, you just made me feel really, really old.....lol.

Jonestown is one of the first big news stories I actually remember paying attention to at the time it happened.  It was super creepy.  When I moved to this area and realized that my current congressperson (Jackie Speier) had been there and gotten shot, and her boss at the time, Leo Ryan (who was the congressman then) was killed there (and there's a big park named for him in a nearby suburb) I had to read about it again.  Oh plus the cult that moved down there was also based in the Bay Area before they moved down.  I think a lot of them were from Oakland.

[Bad Wolf]

10 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/how-an-innocent-man-wound-up-dead-in-el-salvadors-justice-system/2017/03/16/7144e7fc-dd13-11e6-8902-610fe486791c_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_elsalvador-230pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.16813a1044be

Sure Dullards I'm sure your four months of sunning yourselves on the beach baptizing people in the ocean and handing out cheep lollipops is going to  make a huge difference.

I read that this morning and immediately thought of the Dillard's. Nothing they're doing will change life in El Salvador. Maybe there'll be a few people singing about the blood of Jesus, but that's about it. What a horrible, sad thing to happen to that man and his family.

Go home Dullards. You're not helping.

[twinmama]

28 minutes ago, Cheetah said:

All grown up Baby Jessica is in the People magazine a week or two ago.  Here's the link:

http://people.com/human-interest/baby-jessica-30-years-later-my-life-is-a-miracle/

LOL thanks!! That's awesome! hahaha

[SassyPants]

I remember I was on maternity leave with my first when Baby Jessica was in the well. I was watching while nursing.

[BabyBottlePop]

2 hours ago, twinmama said:

LOL I was obsessed with the baby Jessica in the well thing when it happened! I cut out articles from the newspaper about it and all (note: I was like 7 so it's not as crazy as it might sound). And they made a tv movie about it.

I remember watching the end of that Baby Jessica TV movie as a kid (a rerun, I was born after the actual event) with no context and being like "What the hell is going on?" 

[socalrules]

A Thousand Lives by Julia Scheeres is an excellent book on Jonestown. I have always been fascinated by Jonestown. I grew up hearing about a cousin that went missing and some thought he may have followed Jim Jones but no one had any evidence to back it up. Anyone remember the TV movie from maybe the early 80s about Jonestown? It used to repeat all the time when I was a kid. 

[PennySycamore]

3 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I remember I was on maternity leave with my first when Baby Jessica was in the well. I was watching while nursing.

I wasn't on maternity leave, but I'd had a baby, my 26-weeker, in early September of that year.  She was still in the NICU in October and would remain there until early January.  IIRC, I remember being a bit irritated at all the uproar over Baby Jessica.  Here were all these babies in the NICU fighting for their lives every day and here was this toddler who'd fallen down a well because she wasn't watched closely enough.  Or something.  Wikipedia doesn't have the circumstances of her falling in the well so I can't check the negligence thing out.

[grandmadugger]

Waco is the first big thing I really remember.  I remember going into the library and watching the raid.  I kind of remember baby Jessica but I wasn't really into it.

[livinginthelight]

Here is a very good - and haunting - documentary on Jonestown. It really shows how the cult started out looking attractive, with its emphasis on racial equality and love and care for the underprivileged. The documentary includes much original footage of Jones and his cult - both in the states and in Guyana, and follows the slide into darkness and death.

 

 

[ViolaSebastian]

7 hours ago, Chickenbutt said:

@Gillyweed

Tylenol Tampering case

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1878063,00.html

I was born in October of '82, right after the Tylenol murders occurred. The newspaper I have from my birth date (a family tradition) is basically a series of panicky articles about recalls and lawsuits. 

[Jug Band Baby]

7 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

I wasn't on maternity leave, but I'd had a baby, my 26-weeker, in early September of that year.  She was still in the NICU in October and would remain there until early January.  IIRC, I remember being a bit irritated at all the uproar over Baby Jessica.  Here were all these babies in the NICU fighting for their lives every day and here was this toddler who'd fallen down a well because she wasn't watched closely enough.  Or something.  Wikipedia doesn't have the circumstances of her falling in the well so I can't check the negligence thing out.

It was an 8" pipe.  Who on earth thinks a toddler who is a year and a half old can fall into a pipe that small?  It was also covered.  She was playing in her aunt's yard with four other tots, her aunt stepped away a moment (if we're all honest with ourselves, we have all, every single one of us, had moments where we didn't stare at a child in our care, and it's in those moments things can happen).  It's not like her aunt was inside watch soap operas while toddlers were playing unattended.  I'm new here, so you don't know anything about me yet, but I'm usually very hard on parents and other adults in charge of children, but on this, there was no negligence, just a freak accident with an 8"-pipe.

Even if it was a case of the aunt being negligent, that toddler was fighting for her life just as much as your daughter was, and there was another mother panicking about whether or not her child was going to die.  Unlike yours, hers was in imminent danger.  

Whenever you are irked by someone else getting a lot of attention, as yourself if you'd be willing to trade positions with them.  Then be glad you aren't the one in the spotlight.

[Fighter]

I was young when Jonestown happened. But I remember adults talking about it. I went to a private school and one time we got our religion teacher to tell us what happened. It was scary, I also remember watching movies and documentaries on  the subject! I know 20/20 did something on it but I can't remember who did the movie it was in late 80s- early 90s

[VelociRapture]

5 hours ago, Jug Band Baby said:

It was an 8" pipe.  Who on earth thinks a toddler who is a year and a half old can fall into a pipe that small?  It was also covered.  She was playing in her aunt's yard with four other tots, her aunt stepped away a moment (if we're all honest with ourselves, we have all, every single one of us, had moments where we didn't stare at a child in our care, and it's in those moments things can happen).  It's not like her aunt was inside watch soap operas while toddlers were playing unattended.  I'm new here, so you don't know anything about me yet, but I'm usually very hard on parents and other adults in charge of children, but on this, there was no negligence, just a freak accident with an 8"-pipe.

Even if it was a case of the aunt being negligent, that toddler was fighting for her life just as much as your daughter was, and there was another mother panicking about whether or not her child was going to die.  Unlike yours, hers was in imminent danger.  

Whenever you are irked by someone else getting a lot of attention, as yourself if you'd be willing to trade positions with them.  Then be glad you aren't the one in the spotlight.

I liked this and agree for the most part. However, I'm a recent NICU Mom myself - my daughter was (thankfully) born around 34 weeks into my pregnancy. I saw babies in NICU as young as Baby @PennySycamore was at the time. Yes, they aren't trapped in a pipe the way Jessica was - but children born that young can still end up fighting for their lives, even with all the advances in technology and knowledge there have been the past 30 years. I know you were really addressing the negligence aspect and I'm glad you helped clarify, but I don't think it's entirely fair to assume anything about the condition of Penny's child at that specific time.

ETA: Not sure when you joined up, but welcome!  

[nausicaa]

Jonestown happened before my time, but I remember seeing specials about the twentieth anniversary of its occurrence as a young teen and being fascinated. It was really my gateway drug into learning about different religious movements. 

Has anyone heard of a similar case to the Baby Jessica one in Italy? Sadly the little boy didn't live and reading reports of the rescue attempts is so frustrating because the rescue team refused to listen to any soil or spelunking experts and pretty much did everything the wrong way. There is also audio of him calling out for his mom from the pipe and it is very chilling. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

11 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I was born in October of '82, right after the Tylenol murders occurred. The newspaper I have from my birth date (a family tradition) is basically a series of panicky articles about recalls and lawsuits. 

The Tylenol murders completely ruined Halloween. The media went "OMG! Stuff can be tampered with! We never knew!" Lots of people who would normally have given out candy or taken their kids trick or treating didn't. My mom was so mad at the foolishness.

[Italiangirl]

24 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Has anyone heard of a similar case to the Baby Jessica one in Italy? Sadly the little boy didn't live and reading reports of the rescue attempts is so frustrating because the rescue team refused to listen to any soil or spelunking experts and pretty much did everything the wrong way. There is also audio of him calling out for his mom from the pipe and it is very chilling. 

yeah i know about and i refuse to listen to the record cause is so sad! i'm still mad with the rescue team they could save him if they just admitt that an advice could be usefull