The Boyer Sisters: Part 4

[catlady]

Thanks @Palimpsest! I had a brainfart and completely forgot about it.  Getting old sucks........

[Jeronimo]

Oh I forgot about that post too! Silly me.

[jozina]

What's Bridget's new career?

[nastyhobbitses]

9 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

In fairness to Brigie, I thought it did.  Here you go : http://boyersisters.com/2016/12/brigid-gabriels-wedding-apparel/

I don't know what will happen for Jessica and Charlotte.  I truly hope they can break out of their current unhealthy ruts and do something different.

What strikes me about how unhealthy their lifestyle is, is how things that would ordinarily be a bit of an adjustment but not so bad are massive, seismic things that turn their lives upside down. My parents raised me and my sister to value independence and doing our own thing; when I moved overseas right after college, my sister's reaction was to hug me and say "I'm taking all your stuff". If one of us got married, it would be a happy occasion, not a moment of loss. If one of us had an engagement break up, I'm sure we'd be upset, angry, and disappointed, but we'd move on with our lives. Having only each other as company and knowing no other life but sitting around at home together means that the Boyer girl-women have no sense of independence or resilience. How is this childrearing method -- homeschooling with very little outside socialization, teaching children to regard family as their best/only friends, and building up marriage to be the ultimate life goal -- healthier than teaching children to forge their own paths in life?

[Jencendiary]

Health doesn't have anything to do with it. Neither does happiness. Only 'righteousness.'

[catlady]

4 hours ago, jozina said:

What's Bridget's new career?

i think that was intended to indicate being a new wife, and hopefully she has enough going on to keep her happy.  even if motherhood isn't on her immediate horizon, perhaps she's socializing with some of Gabe's party guests, hand-sewing costumes, and learning some new things.  since she's stepping away from blogging, i hope that means she's busy and not holed up at home waiting for Gabe to return from work every day.

[HereticHick]

If fundies like the Boyers didn't carry on so much about how your siblings are your best and only friends, it wouldn't be so traumatic when one leaves the nest.

[EowynW]

46 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

If fundies like the Boyers didn't carry on so much about how your siblings are your best and only friends, it wouldn't be so traumatic when one leaves the nest.

Yep. Survived that too. Very damaging. 

[usedbicycle]

10 hours ago, jozina said:

What's Bridget's new career?

I also recall her mentioning her new career [which I interpreted as "wife"], but can't find it in the post anymore! Has it been scrapped?

As a side note, nothing irks me more than people saying that being a wife is a career. Marriage isn't a career, it's a family bond, a pact of mutual support to help build your life and face its trials. Men don't say their career is "husband". 

What can a wife possibly do (without kids) that she doesn't even have time to run a tiny online shop?

 

 

[ladyamylynn]

@usedbicycle I was reminded of the classic feminist essay I Want a Wife. Of course I doubt @Gabeis doing anything that would require that level of support, but it certainly could be a full time job depending on the circumstances. Which is of course 100% bullshit and exploitative of the unpaid labor women are expected to perform. This is rambling, and I'm definitely not arguing your point,  which I totally agree is how things should be. http://www.columbia.edu/~sss31/rainbow/wife.html

[charmedforsure]

15 minutes ago, usedbicycle said:

What can a wife possibly do (without kids) that she doesn't even have time to run a tiny online shop?

 

4 minutes ago, ladyamylynn said:

@usedbicycle I was reminded of the classic feminist essay I Want a Wife.  (snip)

Perhaps, in the vein of that amazing essay, Brigid had to give up her identity (her own pattern shop/business) in order to support her husband (and his Etsy shop) fully? 

Or, because the sisters probably shared one PayPal account, divvying up the funds from all their different ventures made things a bit hairy... Especially with Brigid roughly a 3 hour drive in traffic on the other side of the world. It is a hard push in trainings from those up the pyramid that you separate your "profits" from your other money to reinvest in your business when you're in a pyramid scheme direct sales. Can't have that essential oil money get mixed in with CD and pattern money...

[EowynW]

1 hour ago, usedbicycle said:

I also recall her mentioning her new career [which I interpreted as "wife"], but can't find it in the post anymore! Has it been scrapped?

As a side note, nothing irks me more than people saying that being a wife is a career. Marriage isn't a career, it's a family bond, a pact of mutual support to help build your life and face its trials. Men don't say their career is "husband". 

What can a wife possibly do (without kids) that she doesn't even have time to run a tiny online shop?

 

 

Wife and mother being called a career has always made me cringe. 

[usedbicycle]

38 minutes ago, ladyamylynn said:

@usedbicycle I was reminded of the classic feminist essay I Want a Wife. Of course I doubt @Gabeis doing anything that would require that level of support, but it certainly could be a full time job depending on the circumstances. Which is of course 100% bullshit and exploitative of the unpaid labor women are expected to perform. This is rambling, and I'm definitely not arguing your point,  which I totally agree is how things should be. http://www.columbia.edu/~sss31/rainbow/wife.html

Thanks that was a fantastic read! I want a wife too  

[hoipolloi]

23 minutes ago, usedbicycle said:

Thanks that was a fantastic read! I want a wife too  

If you liked that one (which is good), you'll appreciate this classic, "The Politics of Housework" by Pat Mainardi.

[Seahorse Wrangler]

On 5/7/2017 at 8:28 PM, Grimalkin said:

Yeah Brits are totally charmed by Americans that  'try and act British'. If I had a dollar every time someone tried to act British around my husband, make stupid British jokes, or fawn over his accent.....we could probably fly all six of us to theUK. It gets so old.

Between the late Mr Wrangler's Brummie accent and my not quite Geordie accent, we tended to down -play and try to blend in...

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

@ladyamylynn--I hadn't read I Want a Wife since years before I married. My (almost 18) years of marriage have given me a new perspective on it!

@hoipolloi--That essay is spot on. This line reminded me of LorKen Alexander and all the other fundies who insist that a marriage needs 1 dominating leader and 1 submissive follower:

Quote

“This problem of housework is not a man-woman problem. In any relationship between two people one is going to have a stronger personality and dominate.” MEANING: That stronger personality had better be me.

my bold

I'm glad I haven't found that to be true of all the relationships in my life. 

[MakeitSew]

Jessica now has up a post about her favorite past posts. Her opening sentences come across as quite defensive of their way of life and their religious beliefs concerning "boundaries". I am under the strong impression that she reads here as her statements seem almost a direct answer to observations made in this thread. In fact, I believe all three sisters read her, whether having stumbled upon this site by accident or introduced to it by Gabe. I wonder if Brigids departure from the WWW is because Gabe and/or the sisters are displeased with the criticism they have received? In that case, leaving the internet is probably for the best. I do wish all of them happiness, success and continued personal growth. 

 

[Mommit]

Per Jessica: "This will sound odd, but I am laughing right now because we used to get critiques from people who complained that we looked at life through rose-tinted glasses. They said we needed to break out of the safeguards our parents put in place for us and discover who we really were as young women. That was some of the worst advice I’ve ever heard! On the flip side, God knew that we needed to do a little growing up. However, we didn’t have to break rules and go outside of our God-given boundaries to find it. He brought it to us."

I'm assuming we here at Free Jinger are the people who complained. I mean, who else would tell them that? Anyway, that entire post is so very sad when you realize that it's May, 2017 and she's still depressed and getting over a breakup that occurred almost a year and a half ago. Does that sound healthy? How is God helping her? I had a few breakups when I was around her age and I was able to get over each one because I had other things going on in my life. Being laser-focused on getting married as your life goal is why the breakup absolutely devastated Jessica. The poor thing needs some real counseling before she becomes a bitter young woman. I know discussing it here is like beating a dead horse, but maybe if Jessica reads here she'll eventually get the message that she needs real help.

Oh also, she says, "A breakup will affect you and everyone around you, leaving a fair amount of destruction in its wake." Really? A fair amount of destruction? They were ENGAGED for a couple of months. Talk about being overly dramatic! They have zero coping skills, presumably because of the sheltered way they were raised.

Their blog is dying a slow, sad death. I used to enjoy reading their updates. They used to fascinate me. Now they just depress me. Oh well, as long as Jessica can laugh about her depression and thank God for bringing it to her...

[Jeronimo]

1 hour ago, Mommit said:

I'm assuming we here at Free Jinger are the people who complained. I mean, who else would tell them that? Anyway, that entire post is so very sad when you realize that it's May, 2017 and she's still depressed and getting over a breakup that occurred almost a year and a half ago. Does that sound healthy? How is God helping her? I had a few breakups when I was around her age and I was able to get over each one because I had other things going on in my life. Being laser-focused on getting married as your life goal is why the breakup absolutely devastated Jessica. The poor thing needs some real counseling before she becomes a bitter young woman. I know discussing it here is like beating a dead horse, but maybe if Jessica reads here she'll eventually get the message that she needs real help.

Perhaps she is defensive in this post because deep down she knows her life wrapped up in a boring limiting cocoon. She seems to be trying so hard to suppress her emotions, and when someone asked her whether she was seeking help, she said something about God working through her parents. Why does she think it's bad advice when people suggest she venture beyond her boundaries? A new perspective might help her move on, rather than ruminating on the pain and destruction. 

Jessica, Charlotte, there is a whole big wide beautiful world out there. Don't you ever ache to see something beyond your boundaries? Why is it bad to experience new things? What are you denying yourself? 

God helps those who help themselves. 

 

[EowynW]

It's so hard to be trapped like that. I don't know what freedoms their parents give them. I know mine wouldn't even bother to let my sister & I develop credit, get good jobs, save and buy a car, etc. because it didn't matter because vagina. My brother was encouraged and pushed to do all of the above because hey, penis, protector and provider. 

[usedbicycle]

I agree with @MakeitSew that Jessica sounds incredibly defensive of her lifestyle here, and it just sounds silly.

She admits herself that despite all the safeguards her parents put in place, heartache and suffering still entered her life BIG TIME. But she justifies it by God allowing the situation for her to grow. 

It's circular reasoning at its best: "God created X law for our good, law X is good because God created it".

I heard lots of "circular arguments" growing up fundie-lite. One of the craziest I remember was at bible camp as a teen. A couple was presenting their testimony about the benefits of virginity before mariage. I was expecting to hear that their mariage was incredibly blessed etc. However, they did a long exposé about how difficult their sex life had been, that the bride cried all the way through her beach honeymoon because she realized she hated intimacy etc. 5 kids later it was still hard. Well the point of the testimony was that if they HAD slept together before mariage, they would have broken up, but it was God's plan for them to marry so it's a good thing they waited to have the (terrible) sex. 

The whole room was applauding and I was like "What"??? This makes no sense! I've since learned the expression "circular reasoning" and can apply it to so many of the crazy things I was taught. 

 

 

[hollyandivy]

7 hours ago, usedbicycle said:

I heard lots of "circular arguments" growing up fundie-lite. One of the craziest I remember was at bible camp as a teen. A couple was presenting their testimony about the benefits of virginity before mariage. I was expecting to hear that their mariage was incredibly blessed etc. However, they did a long exposé about how difficult their sex life had been, that the bride cried all the way through her beach honeymoon because she realized she hated intimacy etc. 5 kids later it was still hard. Well the point of the testimony was that if they HAD slept together before mariage, they would have broken up, but it was God's plan for them to marry so it's a good thing they waited to have the (terrible) sex. 

The whole room was applauding and I was like "What"??? This makes no sense! I've since learned the expression "circular reasoning" and can apply it to so many of the crazy things I was taught.

I can't "like" your post - that is just sooooooo horrible.... they should have broken up, maybe she would have gotten help or just found a guy that was more sensitive to her needs. If Sex is still horrible after 5 kids, then why don't you try to fix it????????

[apandaaries]

1 hour ago, usedbicycle said:

I heard lots of "circular arguments" growing up fundie-lite. One of the craziest I remember was at bible camp as a teen. A couple was presenting their testimony about the benefits of virginity before mariage. I was expecting to hear that their mariage was incredibly blessed etc. However, they did a long exposé about how difficult their sex life had been, that the bride cried all the way through her beach honeymoon because she realized she hated intimacy etc. 5 kids later it was still hard. Well the point of the testimony was that if they HAD slept together before mariage, they would have broken up, but it was God's plan for them to marry so it's a good thing they waited to have the (terrible) sex. 

The whole room was applauding and I was like "What"??? This makes no sense! I've since learned the expression "circular reasoning" and can apply it to so many of the crazy things I was taught. 

Every once in awhile there are people who argue that going from zero-to-sexty can be awesome.  I always wonder what on earth they could be thinking.  The story above is one of the saddest I've heard.  Imagine having 5 kids with someone you don't want to be intimate with.  Now, she could be asexual, but it could also be that she doesn't want to be sexual with him, or that he doesn't know how to please her whatsoever, or they or not compatible, or who knows.  That is horrible, and she'll probably never divorce him, since God just hates divorce. 

Since fundie comes in many flavors, and all fundies are concerned with controlling women's bodies, Unorthodox, by Deborah Feldman makes for an interesting read.  She was raised as a Hasidic Jew, where interactions between unmarried women and men are strictly scrutinized and rarely allowed.  Unrelated men and women barely talk. She met her husband a few times before they married, with family nearby and/or in public, so no one could say they'd done anything improper. Her wedding night didn't go so well due to vaginismus, which plagued her marriage for quite some time.  But that's sort of better than her friend, whose husband had been instructed by the rabbi to be sure to consummate the marriage by going as quickly as possible (fear of premature ejaculation or erectile dysfunction loom large, it seems).  The newlywed followed instructions, but consummated incorrectly, leading to a ruptured colon for the missus and a trip to the ER.  

My apologies for any nightmares. 

[EowynW]

The going from no touching to sex on a typical fundie wedding night just boggles my mind. Me. EW & I were virgins but we snuck around and hugged, kissed, made out and did some heavy petting before marriage. We don't regret it. We knew for sure standing on that altar that that was the person we wanted to marry. We couldn't imagine not being able to hug or kiss before marriage. We even snuck a beautiful swoopback kiss into our engagement pic session. I lied and told my mom he was just kissing the side of my mouth and not dead on 

 

Also, in my fundie circle it was a huge joke and pressure that you have sex ON your wedding night. Mostly because "the guy waited so long it'd be wrong to deny him sex now that he's married." We were too tired on our wedding night. We got naked and giggled about our bodies and examined every inch of each other and then fell asleep. I remember feeling guilty I didn't give Mr. Ew sex that night. But even didn't care. He was so amazed to be holding his best friend and falling asleep with her. 

[Kariina]

5 hours ago, Mommit said:

"This will sound odd, but I am laughing right now because we used to get critiques from people who complained that we looked at life through rose-tinted glasses. They said we needed to break out of the safeguards our parents put in place for us and discover who we really were as young women. That was some of the worst advice I’ve ever heard! On the flip side, God knew that we needed to do a little growing up. However, we didn’t have to break rules and go outside of our God-given boundaries to find it. He brought it to us."

Used to? Pffffffffff.

It seems to me as if fundies use this image of laughing at critics fairly often to reject and disprove criticism. Look at me, I sit back and heartily laugh at these silly heathens! I am so full of joy that I laugh from my computer desk, safe from any worldly experience!

It doesn't seem as if she's proving any particular point here to reject her critics' (our?) premises. "Hahahahaha, no!" isn't an argument.

Not that it's her job to rebut us on their blog. It just doesn't convey the confidence I think she hopes it does.

Another note...it's very easy for middle-class fundies to self-fulfill the prophecy of "God providing" under a restrictive lifestyle when they're not in a socioeconomic position to have ever suffered a particularly hard life in the first place. I don't know specifically about the Boyers; their dad seems to be a graphic designer which may or may not be a stable income, but at the end of the day, they're white Midwesterners who live a decent lifestyle and not much would likely change that no matter what fences Ma and Pa Boyer built around their darling girls. Like, honestly, would Jessica's life be that much shittier if she was allowed to go to college? No. The only thing is that she'd be judged as a free, corrupt woman by her inner circle. Her world wouldn't fall to pieces more than it probably already (disproportionately) has.