The Boyer Sisters: Part 4

[SilverBeach]

10 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

    Plenty of people I know are part of MLMs. Most are nice people who just like the product and keep it low key. It's a minority who are obnoxious and aggressive. I just politely turn down invitations because I don't care for paying crazy prices for regular products. It's interesting to me that the most obnoxious person on my FB feed was a neighbor i grew up with. Her main income in her early twenties was filing lawsuits. 

     I don't think all sellers are scammers, I just stay away, and keep my opinions to myself, unless asked.

Not all the sellers are scammy, MLMs themselves are scammy and cause financial harm to most that sign up. They can cause psychological harm too because MLMs blame victims for their failure to make money in a scheme that sets them up to fail. I've seen it happen.

[SoybeanQueen]

17 hours ago, PreciousPantsofDoom said:

Is it a lack of knowledge on the part of the salespeople (either through poor training by the companies or through poor general knowledge  (I'm looking at you Jill "Plexus miracle cure" Rod)  or what?  I don't know, but people do keep putting out questionable claims to drive sales aND sign up followers.. Yes, the companies do make some (token) efforts to curtail the worst of it, but the problem persists. (snip)

  I don't know you, and didn't see your sales materials, so I'll just assume you were one of the good ones who didn't push, didn't try to recruit a downline and didn't make false claims.  Yay you!  Just realize that your experience may not be typical.

I agree on the first part, and I think it's both poor training and a desire to make things seem more amazing. In the case of Norwex, they do make it clear in the company's consultant materials what you are and are not supposed to say, but some people rely on others to train them and probably don't read the product information. As for the oils and "nutrition" companies, there's another problem as far as the people I've known personally who are selling those products. Many of them are not well-educated. I think lots of them honestly don't know how to look objectively at scientific information - see also, your J-Rod example.

I went to a Juice Plus meeting once to be kind to a friend, and I had to bite my tongue the whole time. People with just a high school diploma calling themselves nutritionists and nutrition consultants (in a way that was clearly meant to lead others to believe they had significant training in the subject). A woman gave a lecture about GMOs and how the Juice Plus company uses special dirt that preserves the nutrients in their fruits and vegetables. One of my undergrad degrees is in horticulture, and I've taken many a plant science and crops-related class. In the case of that company, I think the intent is absolutely to deceive, but the consultants I've encountered are not science-ey enough to realize it. I don't think they are individually setting out to deceive people. I am the type who looks up any referenced studies out of curiosity, so I dug into their list of prestigious institution studies when I got home. Some of those organizations did actually study the product, but, shockingly, they did not find miraculous health benefits.

As to the second part, I do recognize that my experience may not be typical, especially with other MLMs, but it also isn't a rare, unicorn-type experience. I likely wouldn't have said anything at all (because, as I mentioned, I don't even sell Norwex products anymore), except there's a whole lot of vitriol for not just the companies but the consultants, as well. Deluded, stupid, not possible to make money but too dumb to see it, can't do enough math to figure out that the high initial investment isn't recouped, etc. Hateful and/or incorrect comments were not just directed at certain groups but all consultants, which included me at one point.

Speaking up to correct something that is incorrect is generally acceptable here.

As for my sales pitch - it mostly involved not so much talking and just cleaning their house for them. Hard to make a false claim with "this will clean your oven quickly with very little heat and no chemical stench" followed by... cleaning the oven.

[SoybeanQueen]

11 hours ago, RoseWilder said:

 I once told this person, in confidence about how sick I have been in the past, and now she's trying to exploit my health problems to make money. It's disgusting. 

Preying on sick people makes me very angry, too. I can't recall now if it was a Juice Plus person or a Plexus person, but one of those was talking about how she planned to take her daughter off thyroid medications because the product would heal her. Ugggggh. Not as serious, and actually rather amusing, I saw someone claim that she didn't get bitten by any oak mites last summer when they were so bad locally because she takes Plexus. Orrrr, maybe you didn't stand under any oak trees, but whatevs.

I made a joking comment last week on FB about having accidentally purchased decaf coffee, and I expected some sort of Plexus or Xyngular response from someone. I'm glad they feel more energetic, truly. I just prefer my caffeine from a delicious latte.

[SilverBeach]

@SoybeanQueen,I have no vitriol for MLM consultants unless they operate like JRod. Quite the opposite, I feel they are victims of these companies. I don't think any of my comments have been hateful, not that you said they were.

I have done a lot of research on MLMs. Compensation plans are intentionally confusing to obfuscate the likelihood of making little to nothing. The upline does not make sure that the downline understands how the comp plan works. MLMs tend to be emotion-driven, and it is unsurprising that many victims to these schemes fail to do due diligence before signing up 

I think consumer protections against the exploitation done by MLMs is lacking. I do not blame the victim, although "true believers" can be annoying when in their fanatical phase. It's a long, hard fall for them, many times coupled with sizeable financial losses, when reality hits. 

My dislike of MLMs has to do with deceptive practices on the part of the companies. It is nothing personal against you or anyone else who may have participated in an MLM.

[Jasmar]

I've seen a chart showing the direct line of descent from Jesus organizing his church during his lifetime. The one at the link shows it, but I've seen a clearer one somewhere that I can't find. Still interesting though.

 

http://mbcmckinney.com/data/trail_of_blood_timeline.pdf

[laPapessaGiovanna]

2 hours ago, SoybeanQueen said:

I do recognize that my experience may not be typical, especially with other MLMs, but it also isn't a rare, unicorn-type experience. I likely wouldn't have said anything at all (because, as I mentioned, I don't even sell Norwex products anymore), except there's a whole lot of vitriol for not just the companies but the consultants, as well. Deluded, stupid, not possible to make money but too dumb to see it, can't do enough math to figure out that the high initial investment isn't recouped, etc. Hateful and/or incorrect comments were not just directed at certain groups but all consultants, which included me at one point.

Did you

On 25/4/2017 at 9:47 AM, laPapessaGiovanna said:

help a multinational corporation to scam your family and friends in the illusion of getting richer

? No? Then my harsh words weren't for you nor for anyone who does his/her direct selling business with honesty.

[Ali]

13 hours ago, RoseWilder said:

One of my co-workers just began selling Young Living Essential Oils and now I feel like I'm trapped in a damn infomercial every time I'm near her. It doesn't matter what the topic is, she finds a way to bring it back to essential oils.

And I'm really not sure why she thinks that having bought a starter kit qualifies her to give me medical advice. I have politely let her know that I'm not going to be treating my medical problems (in which my entire endocrine system keeps trying to shut down) with essential oils. I'm going to instead rely on the advice of my doctor (you know, the person who actually went to medical school) to prescribe the medicine that makes it possible for me to get out of bed in the morning and go to the very workplace where I'm being harassed about essential oils. 

I sympathize with your predicament. Over the past 11 years, I have felt like I can't get rid of essential oil MLM scammers. I have tried to politely tell them no. Recently, I have had to aggressively tell them to back off and I hate having to do that.

It's not too obnoxious for if someone offers them ONCE for a headache or relaxation. It is extremely obnoxious if someone is constantly bring them up or pushes them when a medical condition clearly needs the care of a doctor.

My most recent experience from the past week has been quite upsetting. I had someone I thought was once a genuine friend try to reconnect with me just to try to sell me oils. When I first saw the private message from her, I though she was using my son needing to stay overnight at a hospital for observation due to wheezy breathing as in in for selling me essential oils. The thought of someone doing this greatly upset me. I was able to confirm that she didn't do that by the time stamp. Then, at church of all places someone asked how my son was doing and used the conversation as an opportunity to try to push essential oils again. This angered me more than it probably should have. Perhaps it was because breathing difficulties could be life threatening, especially if a parent is foolish enough to try to treat it with essential oils only instead of consulting a doctor.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

So sorry @Ali! Overnight stays in hospital for a child so young, even if for observation only, must be very hard for you. I hope he'll be better soon! Those who try to profit from a scared and worried mom are heartless disgusting people.

[Ali]

5 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

So sorry @Ali! Overnight stays in hospital for a child so young, even if for observation only, must be very hard for you. I hope he'll be better soon! Those who try to profit from a scared and worried mom are heartless disgusting people.

Thanks! He is doing much better now. His doctor said that he is less likely to get colds now that it is warming up and that his lungs might be able to heal over the summer from having RSV early this year. We are hoping that will be the case instead of something long term like asthma.

[Lurky]

@Ali Good luck - here's hoping everything is fine from here on in

[Grimalkin]

@Ali awww sorry. It can be scary dealing with that. Two of my kids went through that and both healed completely and don't have asthma. Those breathing treatments can be tough to administer though.

     On the plus side, extra cuddling on the couch is a good remedy for both Mama and little one.

[catlady]

so, it's been a week and no new posts on the blog.  the Boyer sisters have gotten really boring.

ok, back to the drift, as it's far more interesting than the B's.

[PreciousPantsofDoom]

3 hours ago, SoybeanQueen said:

As to the second part, I do recognize that my experience may not be typical, especially with other MLMs, but it also isn't a rare, unicorn-type experience. I likely wouldn't have said anything at all (because, as I mentioned, I don't even sell Norwex products anymore), except there's a whole lot of vitriol for not just the companies but the consultants, as well. Deluded, stupid, not possible to make money but too dumb to see it, can't do enough math to figure out that the high initial investment isn't recouped, etc. Hateful and/or incorrect comments were not just directed at certain groups but all consultants, which included me at one point.

I don't recall anyone blasting vitriol  at ALL consultants or comments calling ALL of them too stupid to recognize when they are being scammed. Yes, there is ire over salespeople who misrepresent their products, particularly the ones who make dangerous health claims and there is plenty of scorn for the whole scammy MLM business model, but that isn't the same thing as directing hateful and/or incorrect comments at all consultants.  

Look, people can do the MLM thing, not cross any ethical boundaries, make some cash and get out without losing their shirt. You are proof of that, and there are doubtless other non-unicorn others. What we are talking about here is the fact that MLMs in general are a business model that tends to be exploitive. If you are, say, a SOTDR educated fundie SAHM with very little cash to spare (but lots of kids to feed and clothe) the get rich quick promises  of MLMs must seem very attractive.  Work from home? Unlimited potential? Perfect!

You had the education (I assume) and the worldly sophistication etc. to get in and get out in good shape.  The fact that we are critical of the business practices of the industry as a whole does not mean we are criticizing you and your experience.

Tone is hard to get from things written on the Internet, but you come across as quite defensive. Why are you reacting as if we are criticising you instead of criticizing the industry? 

 

For the record, I agree that poor training of consultants and misunderstanding of materials etc. Is part of the problem.  I had the exact same experience of having to bite my tongue while the consultant spouted off various pseudo-scientific idiocy. She was very sincere, just no actual science background, so didn't realize how misleading she was being.  Oh, and that was Norwex.

[charmedforsure]

Charlotte is totally on the leaky gut train in her new instagram post. Does she not know how to mirror a selfie? 

Has anyone else on FJ read her blog? http://charlotteboyer.blogspot.com/

Her blog reads of a typical angsty teenager. Reminds me of the blog I kept when I was 14/15. I sincerely hope she gets out to socialize with age-appropriate peers more than her written life leads me to believe that she does... 

 

Looks like Jessica and Kathy have one of the Young Living premium starter kits as their Facebook header picture. Kathy also started up a twitter account as she's the actual "independent distributor" in the Boyer family (along with her twin sister in this pyramid scheme venture). I'm willing to bet that one of twin sisters will invest into a "Certified Aromatherapist" training course to attempt to legitimize their pseudoscience claims. 

[RoseWilder]

18 hours ago, Ali said:

I sympathize with your predicament. Over the past 11 years, I have felt like I can't get rid of essential oil MLM scammers. I have tried to politely tell them no. Recently, I have had to aggressively tell them to back off and I hate having to do that.

It's not too obnoxious for if someone offers them ONCE for a headache or relaxation. It is extremely obnoxious if someone is constantly bring them up or pushes them when a medical condition clearly needs the care of a doctor.

My most recent experience from the past week has been quite upsetting. I had someone I thought was once a genuine friend try to reconnect with me just to try to sell me oils. When I first saw the private message from her, I though she was using my son needing to stay overnight at a hospital for observation due to wheezy breathing as in in for selling me essential oils. The thought of someone doing this greatly upset me. I was able to confirm that she didn't do that by the time stamp. Then, at church of all places someone asked how my son was doing and used the conversation as an opportunity to try to push essential oils again. This angered me more than it probably should have. Perhaps it was because breathing difficulties could be life threatening, especially if a parent is foolish enough to try to treat it with essential oils only instead of consulting a doctor.

I'm so sorry your son was sick. I'm glad he's doing better. 

And I think you anger was justified. I'm pretty angry right now about my experience as well and hearing that it's happening to others is increasing my anger. The thing that really upsets me is that someone might prey on someone whose defenses are down enough that they will buy the oils and someone could end up getting really hurt. I know the oils are allegedly harmless, but you never know when something can cause a bad reaction. 

[Kariina]

9 hours ago, charmedforsure said:

Charlotte is totally on the leaky gut train in her new instagram post. Does she not know how to mirror a selfie? 

Has anyone else on FJ read her blog? http://charlotteboyer.blogspot.com/

Her blog reads of a typical angsty teenager. Reminds me of the blog I kept when I was 14/15. I sincerely hope she gets out to socialize with age-appropriate peers more than her written life leads me to believe that she does... 

I don't get her obsession with Soul Sister. That song is practically gibberish (in my opinion).

[nickelodeon]

Her photography is really adorable. I will forgive her for only hearing "Soul Sister" for the first time in the year of our lord 2017, because she was probably 10 years old when it came out. The poetic rhapsodizing of Olive Garden is ludicrous though:

Quote

Let me take you back to June, 2016, and the smell of decadent breadsticks, garlic, and roasted tomatoes filling the air. The location is Olive Garden

Ahhhh, the peak of luxury. The most indulgent dining experience. The rich and abundant spices of fairest Italy. OLIVE GARDEN!!

[catlady]

that's like comparing McDonalds to backyard grilling.  and since when are breadsticks decadent?  don't get me wrong, i like the occasional drive-thru cheeseburger, and OG is nice when i don't feel like cooking.  but if i want garlic and roasted tomatoes in the air, i'm making that shit myself.  but then, i have to remind myself that Charlotte and her sisters have minimal perspective due to the relative isolation imposed by their parents; so i suppose OG *can* be exotic for some people.  

[apandaaries]

32 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

 

Ahhhh, the peak of luxury. The most indulgent dining experience. The rich and abundant spices of fairest Italy. OLIVE GARDEN!!

The rhapsodizing of Olive Garden made me groan out loud.  In fact, my daughter inquired about what had made me respond in such a way. I started to tell her when she interrupted to say, "Oh yeah!  I remember those ones.  Aren't they the ones who get a haircut, then wait around for their hair to grow so they can cut it again?"    Aside from a bit of cooking, cleaning, and sewing (and a lot of prayer and anxiety), the kid described much of their lives. They are so isolated with so few options for godly entertainment.

ETA: Charlotte's blog made me rather sad.  Settling for a few quiet moments with close friends, and memories of those times, rather than realizing she's at the perfect age to explore the world and get an education.  It reads like she's trying to comfort herself about her extremely limited lifestyle, almost Stockholm syndromesque: "I like this small cage.  It's a really good small cage.  God likes my cage.  I should learn to love being in this small, confined space.  This cage is really the very best."

[ADoyle90815]

50 minutes ago, catlady said:

that's like comparing McDonalds to backyard grilling.  and since when are breadsticks decadent?  don't get me wrong, i like the occasional drive-thru cheeseburger, and OG is nice when i don't feel like cooking.  but if i want garlic and roasted tomatoes in the air, i'm making that shit myself.  but then, i have to remind myself that Charlotte and her sisters have minimal perspective due to the relative isolation imposed by their parents; so i suppose OG *can* be exotic for some people.  

Olive Garden can be considered exotic if you've never gone more than 50 miles from your hometown and have only eaten at chain restaurants. I will say that sometimes OG is nice on occasions, but there are other Italian restaurants out there that have really great food as they were originally founded by Italian immigrants.

[ladyamylynn]

I wonder if she knows Hey Soul Sister isn't about a chaste gentleman and a godly maiden, but actually is about a guy seeing a woman at a festival and wanting her to blow his...uh... mind?

[usedbicycle]

14 hours ago, charmedforsure said:

Charlotte is totally on the leaky gut train in her new instagram post. Does she not know how to mirror a selfie? 

"When you become health obsessed, you naturally become gut health obsessed. When you become gut health obsessed you also naturally buy books that are weirdly cute and amazingly informative. Can't wait to dive into baby this today  "

So she's basically advertising a book she didn't even read. I'm not saying the book it bad, just that she believes the premise before even reading it. She could be best friends with Jill Rod who believes our intestines are caked in 20 lbs of unnecessary poop.

 The lack of critical thinking in these people will never ceases to amaze me, but then again their entire life based on blind faith and rejection of basic science.

[Cartmann99]

2 hours ago, ADoyle90815 said:

Olive Garden can be considered exotic if you've never gone more than 50 miles from your hometown and have only eaten at chain restaurants. I will say that sometimes OG is nice on occasions, but there are other Italian restaurants out there that have really great food as they were originally founded by Italian immigrants.

I grew up very sheltered in terms of food because my parents weren't very adventurous in their food choices. When we went out to eat, it was Tex-Mex, steak, barbecue, hamburgers/hotdogs, or Red Lobster. We'd take a trip once a year or so and stop at a German restaurant that was on the way to our destination, but that was the most exotic food we ever ate. I mean, I didn't even know any other lettuce existed other than iceberg. 

I was in my early twenties when a roommate took me to an Italian restaurant and started introducing me to other foods I'd never eaten before, like bagels! Don't laugh, its true. I quickly fell in love with bagels, and even learned to make my own to fulfill my cravings when money was extremely tight.

I've made up for lost time since those days. It's a shame the Boyer sisters probably won't get to do the same. 

 

 

[dramallama]

On 4/27/2017 at 4:09 PM, catlady said:

so, it's been a week and no new posts on the blog.  the Boyer sisters have gotten really boring.

I submit that they've always been really boring, now they're just doing so silently. 

[Kariina]

Quote

"When you become health obsessed, you naturally become gut health obsessed. When you become gut health obsessed you also naturally buy books that are weirdly cute and amazingly informative. Can't wait to dive into baby this today  "

For some reason I really dislike this voice in writing. It's like a different facet of passive -- no, Charlotte, when I become health obsessed I do not necessarily become gut obsessed. I do not also "naturally buy books that are weirdly cute" etc. etc. These are things you are doing.

I know it's meant to be cutesy but it's so overly specific that the second person voice doesn't work.