The Boyer Sisters, Part 2

[JermajestyDuggar]

17 minutes ago, Gabe said:

They are disabled just as much as a person born without an appendage.

How are they disabled? What ability do they not have? An intersex person can be just as functional as you and me. Btw there are many different ways a person can be born intersex. Would you assign a gender to that person? Reassignment surgery when they are born? How do you pick which gender? Did god make a mistake in not providing a clear sex?

[Gabe]

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

How are they disabled? What ability do they not have? An intersex person can be just as functional as you and me. Btw there are many different ways a person can be born intersex. Would you assign a gender to that person? Reassignment surgery when they are born? How do you pick which gender? Did god make a mistake in not providing a clear sex?

I am not a doctor nor am I in a position to make these decisions. Why do you even care what I think?

It's a genetic aberration. Plenty of people have genetic conditions. I am not qualified to enumerate which options I think are best for people in those circumstances, nor do I wish to 

[Pianokeeper]

14 minutes ago, Gabe said:

 

Doesn't the inherent quality of "gay" orientation fly in the face of the presumed fluidity of actual physical gender (or orientation) in a worldview that accepts the LGBT?

No. 

Sexuality and gender are different concepts. I know a transwoman who is a lesbian -- clearly if she had remained in an apparently male body, her pursuit of a girlfriend would have been more socially acceptable and easier in, oh, every conceivable way -- physically, financially, you name it. But her feeling that she is female (and if you met her, you would never for a second think she's anything but female) doesn't mean she wants to be with men, now. 

But I think it's important to note that you can find many conflicting ideas and theories of sexuality, gender, gender expression, feminism... and sure, some of them conflict with each other, same as religious philosophies or any other discussion of who and what we are. Spiritual discussions included.

[SilverBeach]

13 hours ago, snarkysally said:

Yes, some did say that, which is the whole point. Because when I pointed out the absurdity of it, I was basically called an idiot for admitting that I don't know how to end all child abuse and neither does anyone else. That was exactly my point, it's an absurd idea, yet you people are still arguing that I and others should somehow be able to do this. 

I never said, "I have no idea how to go about putting steps I to place..." absolutely necessary never said that. I said I have no idea how to prevent any/all forms of child abuse and was lambasted for it even though none of you do either. 

The point is that it's ridiculous to expect a 20 year old newlywed to be able to do something that seasoned cps workers, psychologists, judges, politicians, etc cannot do.

I'm getting my nails done in sparkly red for Christmas.

[VooDooChild]

10 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

I'm getting my nails done in sparkly red for Christmas.

I'm doing a blue and silver theme.

[SilverBeach]

Just now, VooDooChild said:

I'm doing a blue and silver theme.

That should be so pretty!

[dramallama]

50 minutes ago, Gabe said:

The good thing about God is that he's real whether you believe in him or not... (I can play this game too)

And speaking of claims lacking evidence beyond a reasonable doubt...

[Four is Enough]

OK, then, if the Bible, the entire bible, is the foundation, one assumes you believe and practice all of it. And therein lies the rub. Of course, I'm bringing up the part about owning and using slaves, selling a daughter into concubinage, and so on. So many parts of the Old Testament seem to be so far removed from what is done today. I don't believe for a minute that I should own a slave or sell my daughter into concubinage, yet there it is.  

How do things mentioned in the bible, which are clearly not acceptable today, work in your foundation? Is part of the bible "wrong?" "misguided?" "Antiquated?" 

Is there a specific version of the bible that you prefer and use exclusively?

[VooDooChild]

Just now, SilverBeach said:

That should be so pretty!

Yup!  It's a glittery silver polish.  Very yummy.

[dramallama]

13 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

I'm getting my nails done in sparkly red for Christmas.

I'm also doing red.  Butter London in Ruby Murray.

[charmedforsure]

21 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

I'm getting my nails done in sparkly red for Christmas.

9 minutes ago, VooDooChild said:

I'm doing a blue and silver theme.

 

6 minutes ago, dramallama said:

I'm also doing red.  Butter London in Ruby Murray.

I'm thinking I might do my nails either in silver glitter or rose gold glitter for Christmas/New Year's. The nice part about glitter polish is it's so easy to touch up!

[dramallama]

5 minutes ago, charmedforsure said:

 

I'm thinking I might do my nails either in silver glitter or rose gold glitter for Christmas/New Year's. The nice part about glitter polish is it's so easy to touch up!

Ooh, rose gold, I hadn't thought about rose gold.  I might have to do that instead.  In fact, I recently picked up this polish:  

and haven't used it yet.  Perfect!

[FlamingFundie]

@Gabe I am very thankful that you're back and still willing to answer at least the 'softball' questions, though I eagerly await your responses to the bigger questions-- out of respect, of course, as I am always willing to learn others' insights and views.

If I may, I'd like to know how you might put into practice the "love the sinner, hate the sin" view of the world I assume you have. Perhaps you could roll that into the previous questions about what your actions might look like if your offspring came out as gay to you? I hear Christians saying that all.the.time but Im not even sure what that looks like.

[JermajestyDuggar]

34 minutes ago, Gabe said:

I am not a doctor nor am I in a position to make these decisions. Why do you even care what I think?

It's a genetic aberration. Plenty of people have genetic conditions. I am not qualified to enumerate which options I think are best for people in those circumstances, nor do I wish to 

I'm curious because you believe a person born with a vagina must only be attracted to a person with a penis otherwise it's a sin. So what if their sex is ambiguous? Is it a sin for them to marry anyone? 

You are the one with very black and white beliefs on the topic of sex, gender, and sexuality. So I'm curious if what you think when life isn't so black and white as you believe.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

5 hours ago, Gabe said:

Yes. I thought it would be obvious, I claimed it as my foundation from the start.

You are lucky then that we didn't accept your offer of a debate, the "'cause of god" card isn't accepted here.

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

You are lucky then that we didn't accept your offer of a debate, the "'cause of god" card isn't accepted here.

It saves you from having to actually debate.

[nausicaa]

20 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

OK, then, if the Bible, the entire bible, is the foundation, one assumes you believe and practice all of it. And therein lies the rub. Of course, I'm bringing up the part about owning and using slaves, selling a daughter into concubinage, and so on. So many parts of the Old Testament seem to be so far removed from what is done today. I don't believe for a minute that I should own a slave or sell my daughter into concubinage, yet there it is.  

How do things mentioned in the bible, which are clearly not acceptable today, work in your foundation? Is part of the bible "wrong?" "misguided?" "Antiquated?" 

Is there a specific version of the bible that you prefer and use exclusively?

I was wondering the same thing. Gabe, if the entire Bible is the foundation for your views, (and in the context of the discussion, I am assuming you are referring to the passage in Leviticus about homosexuality being an abomination and therefore implying that Old Testament prohibitions apply to Christians) does that mean you do not eat pork or shellfish? Strictly observe the Sabbath? Believe all men must be circumcised?

[JermajestyDuggar]

51 minutes ago, Gabe said:

I am not a doctor nor am I in a position to make these decisions. 

Based on this, I assume you are pro choice. So am I :-)

[apandaaries]

43 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

I was wondering the same thing. Gabe, if the entire Bible is the foundation for your views, (and in the context of the discussion, I am assuming you are referring to the passage in Leviticus about homosexuality being an abomination and therefore implying that Old Testament prohibitions apply to Christians) does that mean you do not eat pork or shellfish? Strictly observe the Sabbath? Believe all men must be circumcised?

Don't forget the mixing of fabrics! Leviticus certainly outlaws that.  Are the people in mixed fabric attire also great sinners?  Is it as sinful as being gay, or some kind of lesser sin?  Or are all sins created equal?

I'm also curious about your intersex stance.  The child involved in the case linked was assigned a female sex after birth.  The doctors performed the surgery, but the child in question identifies as male.  The vast majority of intersex adults now advocate a "hands off" policy for those in the medical field, since doctors cannot question infants about their gender identity.  You mentioned intersex people being disabled (your words, not mine).  Can you explain how this is so?  Is being born slightly different really disabling?  How does God decide who is born intersex?
Here's one link to the case mentioned above.  It's fascinating, and I'd highly recommend reading more on the topic: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lawsuit-gender-idUSBRE94D0ZQ20130514

[charmedforsure]

40 minutes ago, dramallama said:

Ooh, rose gold, I hadn't thought about rose gold.  I might have to do that instead.  In fact, I recently picked up this polish:  

and haven't used it yet.  Perfect!

Holy crap on a cracker. That's frickin' pretty polish. 

[Palimpsest]

6 hours ago, Gabe said:

These questions take time and writing to answer. I will have to file them away and see if I can address them when I have more time.

Answer my questions about complementarian marriage at your leisure.  If it is far too much bother or a challenge for you write it out, perhaps just point to an article that you believe expresses your point of view.

I think all the other questions I had may have already been asked, if not answered, so I won't repeat them.  Most of the answers we have had so far have been sadly predictable.  The chances are that we won't change Gabe's mind about anything, although I live in hope.  

No wait!  @Gabe you claimed experience in inner cities.  What were you doing there?  Was it a mission trip?  If so, what organization sponsored the mission?  With what population were you working?

Also, do you attend a church?  How would you describe your church?  Does your church have a Covenant?

 

[nausicaa]

6 minutes ago, charmedforsure said:

Holy crap on a cracker. That's frickin' pretty polish. 

It really is. I love rose gold. 

So I'm going to a James Bond themed gala for New Year's (so excited!). I think I'm going to wear a new slinky black dress with silver heels and a silver clutch I already own. Since it's NYE, and a little more bling is acceptable, could I do gold nails and a gold and silver headband? What is the official FJ stance on the mixing of metallics?

Here's the dress. Under a spoiler cause it's kinda Nike. 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[formergothardite]

4 hours ago, Gabe said:

We think they are sick horrible people who should be punished appropriately. Most of the discussion in my family was practical steps to avoid being abused.

But how would you even catch the people who aren't teaching their children? How would you catch the people who are chaining their kids to railroad rails(happened in NC, was only caught by a stroke of luck). There are no practical ways to teach a child who is being isolated how to avoid their parents starving them, torturing them or just not teaching them. Did no one in your circle even think about stuff like that? Because how abuse would be noticed seems to be a pretty massive loophole to have missed. 

 

4 hours ago, Gabe said:

Honestly it would take significant amount of time to put forward a well thought out and researched response to your main question

If you are willing to say that the government shouldn't have laws to protect homeschool children, shouldn't you be willing to put in the time to think this through? Are homeschool children just not that important? I know from speaking to abused and neglected homeschool children they often feel like the homeschool community just gives no shits about them because of reactions like yours to hearing their stories. 

 

4 hours ago, Gabe said:

I would rather not bandy half formed ideas with you on this subject.

So your idea that government intervention isn't necessary is half-formed? Perhaps you should not have bandied that about if you haven't fully researched the subject. 

4 hours ago, Gabe said:

In the meantime, simply discounting any evidence of CPS abuse, disbelieving the word of a former CPS worker and generally dismissing  things that you don't agree with, is hardly a wise course of action, and disincentivises anybody from bothering to respond to you at al

What are you even talking about? Have I denied problems with CPS? Nope, in fact I've said my local one needs lots of work. If you are speaking of your story that not even you could keep straight, well excuse me for not believing that the story is just as you say. I've spent time with lots of CPS workers in my life and I do take their word on what is wrong with the system. What about you? Are you willing to pay attention to all those voices of abused former homeschoolers and their thoughts on how they need to be protected? Or will you dimiss them outright because it doesn't fit your preconceived anti-government ideas? 

 

[charmedforsure]

11 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

It really is. I love rose gold. 

So I'm going to a James Bond themed gala for New Year's (so exicted!). I think I'm going to wear a slinky black dress with silver heels and a silver clutch I already own. Since it's NYE, and a little more bling is acceptable, could I do gold nails and a gold and silver headband? What is the official FJ stance on the mixing of metallics?

Here's the dress. Kinda Nike. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

That dress is insanely gorgeous. Metallics? Mix away! 

[anachronistic]

I'm just sitting here, in line, waiting for @Gabe to answer my questions about government.

although I do wonder how I'm even doing that, since apparently my lesbian self doesn't exist, does that mean I don't exist either? (Touches arm) hmmmm......I feel real.....and my desire to have relationships with other women and not men feels equally real......what is real anyway.......

anyway. If you're going to be saying my life is a sin you better be wearing 100% cotton or wool, is all.