The Boyer Sisters, Part 2

[Gabe]

3 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

I see we are already back to the good old "'cause bible says so".

Yes. I thought it would be obvious, I claimed it as my foundation from the start.

[Grimalkin]

@charmedforsure I did not read your first paragraph properly. Sorry

[catlady]

@Gabe, why is it "less than ideal" for the wife to work outside the home?  Please provide detail.  

[charmedforsure]

@Gabe, have you and Brigid watched The Crown on Netflix? Are you going to watch the first season of Victoria when it premieres on PBS in January? 

4 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

@charmedforsure I did not read your first paragraph properly. Sorry

No worries! I think it's quite scrappy and very resourceful that the parents in your school's community stepped up to help the students  when the board clearly failed them. I wish there was more parent/community involvement like that in the schools that so desperately need it!

[Gabe]

41 minutes ago, catlady said:

@Gabe, why is it "less than ideal" for the wife to work outside the home?  Please provide detail.  

Details of why will be forthcoming when or if I can get around to answering the questions about complementarianism.

37 minutes ago, charmedforsure said:

@Gabe, have you and Brigid watched The Crown on Netflix? Are you going to watch the first season of Victoria when it premieres on PBS in January?

We don't have Netflix so no. We also do not have TV so also no.

We do watch TV shows if they interest us, but rarely right when they come out. Both of the shows look interesting so it's likely we'll try them out eventually.

[Grimalkin]

    @Gabe thank you for answering our questions. 

    Do our thread drifts drive you nuts?

[formergothardite]

So are we ever, ever going to find out what was said when you discussed abuse in homeschool families? I"m really curious what your group thinks about people who use homeschooling to hide abuse and not teach children.

[catlady]

8 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

So are we ever, ever going to find out what was said when you discussed abuse in homeschool families? I"m really curious what your group thinks about people who use homeschooling to hide abuse and not teach children.

I don't know; I also got a Maxwellian answer to my question. 

[charmedforsure]

7 minutes ago, Gabe said:

Details of why will be forthcoming when or if I can get around to answering the questions about complementarianism.

We don't have Netflix so no. We also do not have TV so also no.

We do watch TV shows if they interest us, but rarely right when they come out. Both of the shows look interesting so it's likely we'll try them out eventually.

I figured both shows are in the period dramas/historical fiction wheelhouse you both seem to enjoy. The Crown is spectacular, so if you can ever borrow a Netflix password from someone you know or decide to do cash in on a free trial for a month so you can stream it, it's a good ten hours of entertainment. Oh, and PBS puts up the episodes of shows on their website a day after they air for about two weeks or so to stream for free if you were interested in keeping up with a current show.

[Gabe]

23 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

So are we ever, ever going to find out what was said when you discussed abuse in homeschool families? I"m really curious what your group thinks about people who use homeschooling to hide abuse and not teach children.

We think they are sick horrible people who should be punished appropriately. Most of the discussion in my family was practical steps to avoid being abused.

Honestly it would take significant amount of time to put forward a well thought out and researched response to your main question. I would rather not bandy half formed ideas with you on this subject. When and if I get around to making a full response to the question of how to limit child abuse you will hear it. When I get a chance to even research it, I would be happy to pass links on to you of plans put forward by much wiser persons than myself.

In the meantime, simply discounting any evidence of CPS abuse, disbelieving the word of a former CPS worker and generally dismissing  things that you don't agree with, is hardly a wise course of action, and disincentivises anybody from bothering to respond to you at all.

2 minutes ago, charmedforsure said:

I figured both shows are in the period dramas/historical fiction wheelhouse you both seem to enjoy. The Crown is spectacular, so if you can ever borrow a Netflix password from someone you know or decide to do cash in on a free trial for a month so you can stream it, it's a good ten hours of entertainment. Oh, and PBS puts up the episodes of shows on their website a day after they air for about two weeks or so to stream for free if you were interested in keeping up with a current show.

I watched Foyle's War episodes on the PBS website a year or two ago so I will have to look into that. Thanks for the heads up. 

35 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

    @Gabe thank you for answering our questions. 

    Do our thread drifts drive you nuts?

They did at first. I am more driven nuts by other things than the thread drifts. After all, I am basically just a massive thread drift myself.

[JillyO]

1 hour ago, Gabe said:

Yes. I thought it would be obvious, I claimed it as my foundation from the start.

And you, of course, are THE authority to tell us exactly what the bible means?! Last time I checked, there were as many interpretations of the bible as there were readers of the bible.

Very Shupe-esque, "If you disagree with me, you are disagreeing with GOD!"

[DaisyD]

8 minutes ago, Gabe said:

In the meantime, simply discounting any evidence of CPS abuse, disbelieving the word of a former CPS worker and generally dismissing  things that you don't agree with, is hardly a wise course of action, and disincentivises anybody from bothering to respond to you at all.

I will concede that in any system there is the potential for abuse. I also know that when CPS called me, they were just doing their jobs and thought it was just as ridiculous as I did that they were even checking up on us (a relative did some stupid and dangerous stuff while my daughter was there visiting). That didn't change the fear I felt about it. I definitely felt persecuted, even though I wasn't. Keep in mind that no one wants to be labeled a bad parent and many will go to any lengths to prove to others that they aren't. That includes accusing CPS of malfeasance when there is none. We are skeptical of accusations against CPS because we have seen time and time again parents scream about persecution while the children are starving, living in filth, and not being educated. 

None of that changes the fact that child abuse is a serious problem and better solutions are needed for those children who the system ignores. Homeschooled children make up a large percentage of that category. It would be great if we could just rely on people to report their neighbors. The problem is that step 1 in any abuser's play book is to isolate their victim so others won't see what's going on. How, without laws requiring it, can we ensure that those children have access to the help they need?

[kassie]

@Gabe I'm curious about more practical matters. While I wasn't raised "fundy" I do know a lot of them (I'm from the Bible Belt).

How are things handled with regards to money? Have you taken out life insurance so if on the horrible chance something happens to you your wife will be taken care of?
Are you in charge of all the money? Do you budget together? Are the bank accounts in your name only?
What about spending. You are the breadwinner. Do you have the final say?


Those are all really personal questions. Feel free to ignore.

[Four is Enough]

Well, @Gabe, this has been very interesting. I understand  about the use of only one car. (and since we have four, didn't factor that into the equation.) Basically, I just wanted to say that I think I read that you made your wedding outfit. From one who sews to another, GREAT job on matching that plaid! Not snarking at all, it's a wonderful job, and I'd love to talk sewing and construction with you and your wife sometime!

[refugee]

On 12/11/2016 at 9:58 AM, EmiGirl said:

THIS! I think that the fundies just cant grasp that a Christian could not adhere to the patriarchal lifestyle. Of course, let's remember that in their opinion I'm probably not a "real" christian because I believe in evolution and am in a more or less egalitarian marriage.

You've hit on something there. They do not consider others to be "Christians" unless they have pretty much the same checklist. The hyper-calvinists of my former acquaintance considered Catholics and charismatics to be unsaved (inferior doctrine, don't ya know), and barely tolerated "reformed" (hyper-calvinist, that is the reason for the scare quotes there) Baptists.

[ladyamylynn]

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I don't believe in sexual orientation.

 

[refugee]

Gabe, welcome back.

I look forward to the dialog, should you decide to engage in conversation. (I'm not saying that in a snarky way, either.)

I hope that you come with the capacity to mull over what others say in their responses, and not simply to declaim. I don't say this as an insult, but from the reality of having spent more than two decades in the same culture as the Boyer family.

[Flossie]

I admit I made sport of Gabe when it appeared he'd done a drive-by and then bailed.  But he's back and trying to answer questions.  He still displays some arrogance that is offputting, but at his age that's pretty much a given, especially with his upbringing.  While many of us can think of examples of males in their early 20's that are thoughtful, articulate, and wise beyond their years, most of the young men I've known at that age are arrogant know-it-alls that have only a few ways to answer when questioned about their beliefs.  They tend to either shrug it off with "We agree to disagree", argue their point without ever taking into consideration the other person's point of view, or go ballistic.

Gabe seems to be the type to argue his point.  While he probably has no expectation of changing anyone's mind to his point of view, and doesn't intend to change his own point of view, I like that he's talking.  I can admit that I wouldn't want to engage FJ en masse at any age, if my beliefs were so far from the norms here.

I also don't mind that he can't come up with exact answers to the multitude of questions being thrown at him.  It takes a lot of introspection and thought to do that.  Right now he's answering the questions he can easily answer, just like we were taught to do in school when taking an exam:  Answer the questions you know the answers to first, then go back and answer the hard questions.

It's just a suggestion, but if time passes and Gabe stops engaging, it might be because he's written us off as a lost cause.  Or it might mean that Gabe is doing some deep thinking about things.

[Gabe]

1 hour ago, kassie said:

@Gabe I'm curious about more practical matters. While I wasn't raised "fundy" I do know a lot of them (I'm from the Bible Belt).

How are things handled with regards to money? Have you taken out life insurance so if on the horrible chance something happens to you your wife will be taken care of?
Are you in charge of all the money? Do you budget together? Are the bank accounts in your name only?
What about spending. You are the breadwinner. Do you have the final say?


Those are all really personal questions. Feel free to ignore.

We budget together. She is in charge of domestic spending (groceries consumables, clothing, furniture etc...) I am responsible for Utilities, rent, insurance and the like. She has a monthly budget to cover those things which is negotiable, 

For big purchases I have the final say. I would no more make a large purchase without discussing it with her than she would without talking to me.

1 hour ago, Four is Enough said:

Well, @Gabe, this has been very interesting. I understand  about the use of only one car. (and since we have four, didn't factor that into the equation.) Basically, I just wanted to say that I think I read that you made your wedding outfit. From one who sews to another, GREAT job on matching that plaid! Not snarking at all, it's a wonderful job, and I'd love to talk sewing and construction with you and your wife sometime!

Thanks! Feel free to PM me if you want to chat more about sewing. I am sure Brigid could spare some time if you had questions to ask her.

 

2 minutes ago, ladyamylynn said:

 

The good thing about God is that he's real whether you believe in him or not... (I can play this game too)

If by sexual orientation you mean feelings of affection or sexual desire for another person I do believe in it.

If you mean that people are born "gay" or that they are inherently "gay" I emphatically disagree. People aren't "gay" they have sexual attraction for a person of the same gender. The act of fulfilling that desire is plainly a sin according to scripture.

The same goes for "transgenderism" gender is a completely scientific fact and it's the "trans" people and their enablers who are trying to deny their own biological scientific reality.

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, refugee said:

You've hit on something there. They do not consider others to be "Christians" unless they have pretty much the same checklist. The hyper-calvinists of my former acquaintance considered Catholics and charismatics to be unsaved (inferior doctrine, don't ya know), and barely tolerated "reformed" (hyper-calvinist, that is the reason for the scare quotes there) Baptists.

Gabe, since you down voted this, I would like to know why you disagree.

3 minutes ago, Gabe said:

We budget together. She is in charge of domestic spending (groceries consumables, clothing, furniture etc...) I am responsible for Utilities, rent, insurance and the like. She has a monthly budget to cover those things which is negotiable, 

For big purchases I have the final say. I would no more make a large purchase without discussing it with her than she would without talking to me.

Thanks! Feel free to PM me if you want to chat more about sewing. I am sure Brigid could spare some time if you had questions to ask her.

 

The good thing about God is that he's real whether you believe in him or not... (I can play this game too)

If by sexual orientation you mean feelings of affection or sexual desire for another person I do believe in it.

If you mean that people are born "gay" or that they are inherently "gay" I emphatically disagree. People aren't "gay" they have sexual attraction for a person of the same gender. The act of fulfilling that desire is plainly a sin according to scripture.

The same goes for "transgenderism" gender is a completely scientific fact and it's the "trans" people and their enablers who are trying to deny their own biological scientific reality.

What about a person born intersex?

[Gabe]

8 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Gabe, since you down voted this, I would like to know why you disagree.

It's a load of hearsay and projection.

Quote

What about a person born intersex?

They are disabled just as much as a person born without an appendage.

[Coconut Flan]

This is just a reminder of the rules:

Quote

Downvotes

No one owes anyone an explanation for downvotes and they can be given for any reason, from serious disagreement to an avatar that doesn't amuse you.  Don't ask about down votes in the threads - that's not drift it's disruption.  Also remember that people accidentally downvote when on mobile so if it happens and there is no other reason to believe your post is objectionable do everyone a favor and let it go.

 

[ladyamylynn]

Psst, hey @Gabe, there are lots of gay Christians. And Jews. And Muslims. All of whom believe in the very same god you do!!

[hoipolloi]

9 minutes ago, Gabe said:

If you mean that people are born "gay" or that they are inherently "gay" I emphatically disagree.

Disagree all you want but the fact is that being gay IS inborn and therefore inherent.

Also, seeing as the Bible is your authority, please give me chapter & verse where Jesus Christ Himself comments on gays or condemns them in any way. No one else -- just Jesus' exact words on this subject. TIA.

[Gabe]

6 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Disagree all you want but the fact is that being gay IS inborn and therefore inherent.

Prove it beyond reasonable doubt.

Doesn't the inherent quality of "gay" orientation fly in the face of the presumed fluidity of actual physical gender (or orientation) in a worldview that accepts the LGBT?

Quote

Also, seeing as the Bible is your authority, please give me chapter & verse where Jesus Christ Himself comments on gays or condemns them in any way. No one else -- just Jesus' exact words on this subject. TIA.

The entire Bible is my foundation not just the recorded words of Christ.