Anna and the M-kids, Part 8

[Dandruff]

6 minutes ago, JesusCampSongs said:

I suspect that Anna is probably pregnant, but they're not announcing publicly because it would cause an uproar. We haven't seen pictures of her in a while (since Jinger's wedding?), and Counting On has a significant lag time. I think they'll quietly say something when M5 is born. 

I sincerely hope she isn't pregnant.  Josh didn't seem at all thrilled about M4, it's unclear how the family is and will continue to be supported, and there's no telling whether Satan will return to visit Josh again.  If Josh doesn't really want more children then I can't see how another pregnancy would make anything better.

[Mela99]

48 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I sincerely hope she isn't pregnant.  Josh didn't seem at all thrilled about M4, it's unclear how the family is and will continue to be supported, and there's no telling whether Satan will return to visit Josh again.  If Josh doesn't really want more children then I can't see how another pregnancy would make anything better.

Because it'll be a story they can sell - Jesus and fundie beliefs can resurrect marriages and Anna has learned her place as a sexually obedient wife.

[Inky]

I don't see any chance of them divorcing. Anna described Josh as the love of her life when she was talking after the scandal had broken. 

One thing I could see her changing her view on is the number of children. Someone upthread commented how Josh didn't seem too thrilled with #4 at the time. I agree with this - it must be a HUGE worry and burden on a man in this culture because the man is expected to work and support however many children God sends. 4 kids is a lot in today's world. People have nicer homes, nicer clothes, better vehicles etc, and that all takes money. It's not like our grandparents day, when you could feed & clothe 14 or more kids on a shoestring budget. I just wonder if she has compromised with Josh to put more years in between their children, so they won't have as many. 

It's nothing I've heard them say about it - just a feeling I had. 

OR she's already pregnant LOL

[JermajestyDuggar]

36 minutes ago, Inky said:

I don't see any chance of them divorcing. Anna described Josh as the love of her life when she was talking after the scandal had broken. 

One thing I could see her changing her view on is the number of children. Someone upthread commented how Josh didn't seem too thrilled with #4 at the time. I agree with this - it must be a HUGE worry and burden on a man in this culture because the man is expected to work and support however many children God sends. 4 kids is a lot in today's world. People have nicer homes, nicer clothes, better vehicles etc, and that all takes money. It's not like our grandparents day, when you could feed & clothe 14 or more kids on a shoestring budget. I just wonder if she has compromised with Josh to put more years in between their children, so they won't have as many. 

It's nothing I've heard them say about it - just a feeling I had. 

OR she's already pregnant LOL

I've thought this for awhile now. Josh has already cheated and has a porn habit. I wouldn't be surprised if fudging that rule was not a huge deal in his mind. I'm actually pleased with the spacing of their children so far and I wouldn't be surprised if that was because of Josh. I agree that he wasn't thrilled about number four and I really doubt he will be much more thrilled about number five. I'm sure anna wants a fifth more than Josh. The man initiates sex in this cult so it's up to him. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she currently isn't pregrant. Even if she isn't pregnant now, she probably will be soon.  

[PumaLover]

My dream is that Anna leaves the Duggar Compound and the whole quiverfull movement and writes a big tell all book.

If she ever did I would be first in line to buy it and hopefully meet her at the signing. One can dream.

[nokidsmom]

11 hours ago, JesusCampSongs said:

At the time, I chalked it up to the blatant and obvious favoritism that Michelle and JB heaped upon him, but now it appears that there was a lot more to it than that. Even in a cult of keeping sweet, it sucks to see your assholey, molestey older brother get special treatment. 

12 hours ago, sndral said:

John David spoke of having to step up and take on the big brother role after Joshgate2. My guess is that while Josh and Anna are not ostracized in Duggardom or fundydom they are nevertheless marginalized, tolerated but not sought out. Anna may in time become a resource for other fundy wives w/ cheating husbands, but I doubt that Josh will ever regain his fundy status, unless he's financially successful like JB, in which case, beaucoup bucks will whitewash all his sins.

Even though Josh still remained the heir apparent as the oldest son, and was treated as such by his parents until Joshgate, the effects of his horrible behavior and having to keep sweet in spite of it was reverberating in the family.   While JD spoke of taking the big brother role, I agree with others that he probably had that done already to some extent.   What gets me is how much damage was done in that family, not by just Josh's behavior but also JB and J'chelle's response to it.  The simmering resentment had to have bubbled up at times. I can see JD as being the calm, supportive brother that the other brothers turned to.

Josh may not be totally ostracized but he's tolerated because he's family and plus it's supporting Anna and the M kids.  Still having to have his face blocked by a fake glare and TLC edits so he is not seem is still a big fall for the former crown prince, who only two years ago was going to do great things.   I don't see him making big bucks like his dad, he's not that hardworking, he's got no education and his reputation is shot.  Cheating is one thing but molesting your sisters is considered worse.   JB didn't have those problems, he did complete high school, he worked hard and while many here find him creepy, he's not marked as a cheater and molester.  Plus to be successful as he's been, he couldn't just limit himself to the fundy world.  He had to do business with non fundies, and it's the non fundies who are more likely to be put off with Josh's past.   Josh is going to limp along, helped by his dad for a very long time, probably the rest of his life.

[front hugs > duggs]

It just grosses me out that in their world, the cheating thing is a bigger deal than the molesting thing. I just can't logically comprehend that.

[apiscue]

37 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

It just grosses me out that in their world, the cheating thing is a bigger deal than the molesting thing. I just can't logically comprehend that.

Because he had changed and was a model man for his world and he fucked everything and everyone, including his own redemption.
That's the reason. 

[nokidsmom]

2 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

It just grosses me out that in their world, the cheating thing is a bigger deal than the molesting thing. I just can't logically comprehend that.

ITA, it's completely messed up.  Both are bad, no doubt, but seeing cheating as the worse thing while molesting siblings gets swept under the rug and even rationalized as "it happens in other families" shows the massive dysfunction in these so called wholesome Christian families.     It's mind boggling.

 

[LittleSpouseOnThePrairie]

On February 27, 2017 at 7:58 AM, nokidsmom said:

ITA, it's completely messed up.  Both are bad, no doubt, but seeing cheating as the worse thing while molesting siblings gets swept under the rug and even rationalized as "it happens in other families" shows the massive dysfunction in these so called wholesome Christian families.     It's mind boggling.

 

I'm sickened that Anna and Pa Keller learned about his past and still continued the courtship. If I were Anna, every time I'd hang out with his sisters, it would be hard for me to not think about the fact that my husband has touched them sexually as well. So, so sad/messed up/disgusting.

[Bad Wolf]

It's hard to know how much Anna knew or understood. They probably played it down as kids playing doctor. Pa Keller, however, understood exactly what happened.

[OyToTheVey]

#5 is going to happen and soon and they'll go on tour giving speeches on how they survived the devils temptation. We have to remember that as much as we want to save Anna, she doesn't want out. Her non fundie brother offered to help her. He would have taken her in and helped with the kids and to get a GED but she didn't want it. She might think she had to stay but she didn't even want to hear of the other option. I don't blame her. I blame the circumstance she was raised in.

[nokidsmom]

52 minutes ago, LittleSpouseOnThePrairie said:

I'm sickened that Anna and Pa Keller learned about his past and still continued the courtship. If I were Anna, every time I'd hang out with his sisters, it would be hard for me to not think about the fact that my husband has touched them sexually as well. So, so sad/messed up/disgusting.

In addition to knowing that her husband cheated, Anna has the double whammy of know what happened to some of his sisters.   I can't imagine bearing the emotional weight of all it.

34 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

It's hard to know how much Anna knew or understood. They probably played it down as kids playing doctor. Pa Keller, however, understood exactly what happened.

I can see Pa Keller understanding what happened even if it all was explained in vague terms, he could probably read between the lines.  He might be fundie, but as someone who does prison ministry, he's not sheltered entirely from the "bad stuff" that happens in the world.   Anna may have been told enough so that Pa Keller was satisfied he had done full disclosure however, given how sheltered Anna was, I don't think she had any point of reference to figure out what it really meant.

I suspect there were fundie dads who wouldn't let Josh near their daughters once they had so much as a wiff of what happened.    There was the one girl when Josh was a teenager, I forget her name and family, but did the dad put the kibosh on their near courtship?   

Pa Keller has not had the greatest track record when it comes to picking husbands.  He OK'd John Schrader and Josh.  The only one who isn't a total mess is Pecan Thief and frankly that marriage seemed to be foisted on him and Pris.  PT clearly didn't want to get married for whatever reason and Pris was more or less pushed on him.

[Iamtheway]

I don't think you have to leave a spouse that has cheated on you. But staying should be a choice you make and I don't think Anna feels she has that choice. 

[Jana814]

I have said this before and I will say this again. I highly doubt that Anna and her father knew the whole story about Josh's past. Even if her father knew I think all he saw was Josh giving his daughter the kind of life he was unable to give her. 

[QuiverDance]

Pa Keller seems naive and unsophisticated and easy to forgive.  I think he was taken in by a nice story and didn't know the extent of what Josh had done.  

 

[prayawaythefundie]

On 27.2.2017 at 11:50 PM, nokidsmom said:

 Pa Keller has not had the greatest track record when it comes to picking husbands.  He OK'd John Schrader and Josh.  The only one who isn't a total mess is Pecan Thief and frankly that marriage seemed to be foisted on him and Pris.  PT clearly didn't want to get married for whatever reason and Pris was more or less pushed on him.

You know you picked bad husbands for your daughters when Pecan Thief turns out to be your best pick.

[nokidsmom]

2 hours ago, prayawaythefundie said:

You know you picked bad husbands for your daughters when Pecan Thief turns out to be your best pick.

PT only became the best pick after Joshgate.  Before then, IIRC Josh was the best pick because he could support his family (between the family dog and pony show and job at the FRC) but also because he and Anna were (seemingly) happily married.  While PT had a job, there had been questions of how happy and compatible he and Pris actually were.

With John Schrader, there's been no question.    

[imokit]

And when Josh could be argued as anything other then worst son in law. I'd take Anna's life and husband over Esther's.

[Carm_88]

10 minutes ago, imokit said:

And when Josh could be argued as anything other then worst son in law. I'd take Anna's life and husband over Esther's.

Oh hell yes. John just doesn't care about Esther and the kids at all. Josh, from what we have seen, did appear to care for the M Kids. 

[Jana814]

32 minutes ago, imokit said:

And when Josh could be argued as anything other then worst son in law. I'd take Anna's life and husband over Esther's.

So would I. At least Anna gets to live in the US while Esther is far away. 

[nokidsmom]

22 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Oh hell yes. John just doesn't care about Esther and the kids at all. Josh, from what we have seen, did appear to care for the M Kids. 

John Schrader is so unbelievably oblivious to his family's welfare not to mention completely inept at supporting them, that one was to wonder what Pa Keller was smoking when John showed up as a suitor. 

I have said it before and said it again. Pa Keller bears some responsibility for where Esther and his grandchildren are today.  If a father as a headship has the responsibility to vet and transfer authority to a husband, then he bears the responsibility when he allows his daughter to marry a loser who will fail her and their children.  That marriage would have never gone forward if he didn't give his OK, so choosing that epic fail of a son-in-law should weigh on him.

[colors_outside15]

6 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

Oh hell yes. John just doesn't care about Esther and the kids at all. Josh, from what we have seen, did appear to care for the M Kids. 

Pardon the short thread drift, but how many children do John and Esther have at this point?

[Carm_88]

7 hours ago, colors_outside15 said:

Pardon the short thread drift, but how many children do John and Esther have at this point?

10, I think. 

[karen77]

On 2/27/2017 at 6:36 AM, apiscue said:

Because he had changed and was a model man for his world and he fucked everything and everyone, including his own redemption.
That's the reason. 

Well, it's also worse for them in this case because of the timeline, the molestation did happen quite a while ago (almost 10 years?) and the AM stuff was very fresh and new, so of course they are going to react to that, the molestation stuff was old news and not new, they thought he'd changed, and found out he hadn't, so I can see why they made a bigger deal of it at the Joshgate time.