Jingermy - We 'Knew' the Bride When She Used to Snarky Eyeroll

[actuallyjessica]

Hi.  I just stopped in to see the latest... and I had to double - check what thread I was in.... this is not Say Yes To The Dress, right?!
I would encourage the wedding-loving commenters to go back and re-read @formergothardite and @MargaretElliott's posts.
Regardless of how lovely a wedding is, these people are part of a cult.  Jinger has never been able to have free agency, speak or think for herself, and now she has been given away to someone who might as well be a casual acquaintance, as they have had zero alone time to get to know each other.  He is her headship and she must joyfully obey.
Think about that.
I apologize if I sound snippy - I just get a little frustrated over the shoes and dress comments when there is a much darker, more demoralizing situation going on.  Don't be distracted by the shiny objects.

We're multifaceted beings, and so are the fundies. They get married once in their lifetime, so if we can't discuss their wedding now, when can we discuss it? I don't believe oohing and aaahhing negates why we're all here on this site - because these fundies are weird and live restricted lives. We can be aware of this and still wonder what shoes she wears.

[eveandadam]

Jeremy is 29? Jinger 22? At that age the age gap sound a lot to me. Not so much in their 30's but in their 20's that's a lot.

The power dynamic between those two may be even worse than expected. A former professional athlete who is strong and tall and obviously loves to be in control in a relationship and has the most patriarcal believes that one can find within western believe systems, and who absolutely has no problem with publicly stating that he wants an extremely submissive and meek wife, not a good combination at all, if you ask me.

Plus: I hope that they will be on the show and that they have a public instagram because imagine if they go private completely. This could be even more dangerous for her, away from home, and not in the public eye. At least with the show we get a glimpse into how Jinger is doing (at least what they show us).

I know it sounds creepy, but here it comes:

I've been watching the show for over 6 years now and I it would literally break my heart if she is not doing well.

[elliha]

Why did Jeremy pick Jinger? It is certainly a possibility that he did just to be able to mold and control her but I think it is an even greater chance that he has been told that a woman like Jinger is the perfect woman for all men because that is what fundies believe. A meek woman with a servant's heart and a pretty face is what you are supposed to have if you are a lucky man. Is that what he wants? Maybe but it is not unlikely that he has just never challenged this idea. The good thing with the two of them is that they do seem to be attracted to each other and have chemistry, that will help them at least for the first years and hopefully they have also by then found a way of living that suits them.

Unlike many people Jeremy does not appear creepy to me. I do think he is vain and the type of man who wants to be liked and adored by his wife and Jinger will adore him. I think that is his main attraction to her. However, I do think that they will go through a period where he will realize that unless he wants a wife that is 100% focused on him he will have to steer Jinger towards doing something on her own. He might like that focus and I don't think Jinger knows of anything else but it might also be one of the things they will genuinely need to work on. Maybe she will just have babies and be occupied with that or she will help him but she might also do what many of us hope and do her own thing whether it is photography or something else. If we get a Michael Bates situation where the blessings seem to be taking some time I think it will be necessary for Jinger to find something to do to avoid depression or a broken marriage. I think she would be very sensitive to depression in a situation like this so I really hope that it does not arise.

I think that this idea of of men and woman wanting the same type of partner is a very harming belief and part of why Josh ended up doing all these things after his marriage. I think Josh is an excellent example of a man for whom a meek servant's heart woman is totally the wrong choice. I think Josh would have thrived with a strong woman with a backbone who he would be sufficiently afraid of to not want to screw up and who would encourage him to do things properly and not just try to coast through things which I think is a bit of a natural thing for him. With Anna I think he started to see just how much he could get away with and it turned out that she could tolerate quite a lot even if she was hurt. I mean, she is still with him... I think that Josh will keep from screwing up for a while now but I am afraid I am pretty sure he will end up cheating or something like that again. I hope for both sake this will lead to them divorcing but they will continue to waste each other's lives for a while longer.

[PartriarchydefyinValkarie]

Man I watched the Courting Jinger episode it really IS sad to see Jinger in the old episodes she had such a personality and I actually think she would love to be a barista at a Starbucks or something. I hope someone got her an esspresso machine as a wedding gift. 

[Captain Obvious]

3 minutes ago, elliha said:

Why did Jeremy pick Jinger? It is certainly a possibility that he did just to be able to mold and control her but I think it is an even greater chance that he has been told that a woman like Jinger is the perfect woman for all men because that is what fundies believe. A meek woman with a servant's heart and a pretty face is what you are supposed to have if you are a lucky man. Is that what he wants? Maybe but it is not unlikely that he has just never challenged this idea. The good thing with the two of them is that they do seem to be attracted to each other and have chemistry, that will help them at least for the first years and hopefully they have also by then found a way of living that suits them.

Even if he hadn't been told that, I think that a woman like Jinger is what most fundie girls ARE like. Even accounting for Jessa's more domineering personality and Jana's apparent calmness and maturity, there's not much difference between the Duggar girls or other girls he would consider as potential spouses.

They all have the emotional maturity of 14 year olds, and can't really hope to grow much "older". no matter how old they actually are or how many siblings they've raised as sister-moms. 

This isn't even a misogyny thing: their religion actively discourages emotional development for both genders. Self-actualisation, setting goals, expressing wants and needs, learning how to resolve conflicts, learning how to control anger or sadness: they're all stymied in favour of "putting God first", "keeping sweet" and "not rising to anger" aka passive aggressive BS. 

 

3 minutes ago, elliha said:

I think that this idea of of men and woman wanting the same type of partner is a very harming belief and part of why Josh ended up doing all these things after his marriage. I think Josh is an excellent example of a man for whom a meek servant's heart woman is totally the wrong choice. I think Josh would have thrived with a strong woman with a backbone who he would be sufficiently afraid of to not want to screw up and who would encourage him to do things properly and not just try to coast through things which I think is a bit of a natural thing for him. With Anna I think he started to see just how much he could get away with and it turned out that she could tolerate quite a lot even if she was hurt. I mean, she is still with him... I think that Josh will keep from screwing up for a while now but I am afraid I am pretty sure he will end up cheating or something like that again. I hope for both sake this will lead to them divorcing but they will continue to waste each other's lives for a while longer.

Excellent point. But as I said before - what chance is there of a strong woman emerging in fundie/Gothardite culture? Very low, I would think.

10 minutes ago, PartriarchydefyinValkarie said:

Man I watched the Courting Jinger episode it really IS sad to see Jinger in the old episodes she had such a personality and I actually think she would love to be a barista at a Starbucks or something. I hope someone got her an esspresso machine as a wedding gift. 

I also think it's entirely possible that she just wanted to get the hell out of NW Arkansas, thinks Jeremy is hot (which means she has to marry him, because now he has a piece of her heart) and genuinely thinks that the baby talk and fawning is what she's supposed to do to achieve those things. After all, that's how she's been raised.

[Melissa1977]

Are they going quiverful or are they quiet about the number of kids they're going to have?

I haven't a good vibe, not because Jeremy but because I feel that Jinger has given up her dreams. She tries to be content and probably she's in love, but I'm not sure if she will be happy as a fundie wife.

[elliha]

Finding a strong woman in fundie culture? Well, I have met plenty of "the man is the head but the woman is the neck" kind of women from patriarchal cultures. It is a niche to occupy for a stronger personality woman (because personality is at least partially genetic) and still stay within her own culture. To fit into the culture they would "talk the talk" and reassure everyone that they defer to their husband but in reality it would more likely be the other way around but she lets him take the credit officially. 

I think Jessa operates in the fringes of this but is not there all the way. Ben is so young he doesn't know who he is or what he wants but is not necessary a weak man as far as I can see. I think that their relationship will either grow as they grow older themselves or their marriage is going to go south in 10 years or so. My prediction is that if Josh and Anna divorces the likelyhood that Ben and Jessa will too will multiply because then they don't have to be the first. At the moment however I get the feeling they don't have too much in common other than the fact that they are married and happen to have a baby and one on the way. 

40 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

I also think it's entirely possible that she just wanted to get the hell out of NW Arkansas, thinks Jeremy is hot (which means she has to marry him, because now he has a piece of her heart) and genuinely thinks that the baby talk and fawning is what she's supposed to do to achieve those things. After all, that's how she's been raised.

Yes, absolutely a possible scenario and hopefully if so something that does lead to positive change in her life. 

[alba]

Are they going quiverful or are they quiet about the number of kids they're going to have?
I haven't a good vibe, not because Jeremy but because I feel that Jinger has given up her dreams. She tries to be content and probably she's in love, but I'm not sure if she will be happy as a fundie wife.

I'm really hoping to see Jinger set up a fundie wedding photography business. I know it's a very, very slim hope, but it IS a Gothard-approved business for a wife, as it's largely done from home and doesn't require her to place herself under the authority of heathens. It could even be justified as a ministry if she's only photographing "godly" weddings. If she throws in maternity shoots/pregnancy announcements then with fundies' reproduction rates she could have a steady stream of repeat clients.

[nastyhobbitses]

The vibe I get from Jeremy is that he doesn't want a woman who will overshadow him. I know that it's bad to project pop culture and the like onto people, but here's how I realized this: I'm currently watching The Crown, which is about the life of Queen Elizabeth II. When she married Prince Philip and then became queen a few years later, he basically had to give up everything. Couldn't go back to his old job as a naval officer, couldn't live where he wanted to live, followed her around the world and stood there in the background while she worked the crowd, even gave up all of his titles and his name. And even though he's a modern sort of guy (except when it comes to race...) and loves his wife and is proud of her, even he bristles at being overshadowed.

Jeremy seems like he wants to avoid these sorts of eventualities -- obviously Jinger won't become a head of state or gain any real position of power, but I think that Jeremy wanted a wife who would be his consort: stand there, look pretty, adore me, raise my fine strapping boys, and be Mrs. Vuolo, not Jinger. I think he'd find a woman who'd be his equal (or worse, make more money than him and be more successful) threatening; that's why he picked a malleable girl raised from birth to only aspire to be a sex-and-vacuuming robot.

[PartriarchydefyinValkarie]

40 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

The vibe I get from Jeremy is that he doesn't want a woman who will overshadow him. I know that it's bad to project pop culture and the like onto people, but here's how I realized this: I'm currently watching The Crown, which is about the life of Queen Elizabeth II. When she married Prince Philip and then became queen a few years later, he basically had to give up everything. Couldn't go back to his old job as a naval officer, couldn't live where he wanted to live, followed her around the world and stood there in the background while she worked the crowd, even gave up all of his titles and his name. And even though he's a modern sort of guy (except when it comes to race...) and loves his wife and is proud of her, even he bristles at being overshadowed.

Jeremy seems like he wants to avoid these sorts of eventualities -- obviously Jinger won't become a head of state or gain any real position of power, but I think that Jeremy wanted a wife who would be his consort: stand there, look pretty, adore me, raise my fine strapping boys, and be Mrs. Vuolo, not Jinger. I think he'd find a woman who'd be his equal (or worse, make more money than him and be more successful) threatening; that's why he picked a malleable girl raised from birth to only aspire to be a sex-and-vacuuming robot.

The crown is a good show, don't ya love Netflix ? 

  I agree with the assessment. To me Jeremy doesn't seem to be wanting a headstrong woman, more a decorative ornament to compliment him. 

((Off topic here but what would a fundy couple do exactly if they COULDN'T ever have kids?)) 

[elliha]

12 minutes ago, PartriarchydefyinValkarie said:

The crown is a good show, don't ya love Netflix ? 

  I agree with the assessment. To me Jeremy doesn't seem to be wanting a headstrong woman, more a decorative ornament to compliment him. 

((Off topic here but what would a fundy couple do exactly if they COULDN'T ever have kids?)) 

I assume adopt or focus on mission work. I know parts of the fundie world are against adoption but not all of them so this would be the main track. If they cannot adopt or do mission work my guess would be to perhaps support a sibling's family by helping them out with babysitting and such. Some women might go for a fundie approved career while of course officially have their main focus at home. I would assume writing a book about this challenge and go around lecturing could be a possibility. 

[BemusedByFundamentalism]

I'm sorry if this was already discussed earlier. If so, just ignore me ;-)

In attached photo, it appears that a filming crew is taping (on the left), while Josh (behind the guy with the sunglasses) is standing with his back towards the camera. Could it be possible that this is on purpose? That TLC asked him to do so?

ps: I know this is Josh because of another pic I saw somewhere else where it is clear that it's Josh who's standing behind the guy with the sunglasses.

[nastyhobbitses]

58 minutes ago, PartriarchydefyinValkarie said:

The crown is a good show, don't ya love Netflix ? 

  I agree with the assessment. To me Jeremy doesn't seem to be wanting a headstrong woman, more a decorative ornament to compliment him. 

((Off topic here but what would a fundy couple do exactly if they COULDN'T ever have kids?)) 

Steal a bunch of Ethiopian or Guatemalan kids and beat the shit out of them with plumbing line until they die or CPS takes them away.

[Fun Undies]

I hadn't really talked about Jeremy's motivation in picking Jinger, because really, who knows?

But I guess now's as good as time as any to add my two cents . . . maybe it's because I'm a romantic at heart, or maybe because I just hope for Jinger's sake here, but I really pray she'll be okay.  At least okay in her world, and bonus points if they're relationship is a partnership of equals (yeah right, I said I was hopeful, not dumb).

A lot of people have talked about Jeremy trying to save her, while others suggested no way in heck, and I kind of wonder if it's both?  Most fundies (Gothard-stock of not), are aware of the show.  I'm sure that once he started meeting the family, and Jinger, he had to watch at least one show or two (if he hadn't already been a fan before).  Maybe he saw the spunk, too (no matter how much she's trying to downplay that).  Maybe he thinks her expressions are cute, too; and feels bad for her for a lot of reasons.  He could feel bad that she's been obviously stifled by a big family.  That her talent of photography hasn't been allowed to branch off.  Etc.

He might genuinely believe he's saving her (not from Gothardism, much less fundieism), but from lack of "loving attention".  He's still a minister, who wants a minister's wife, and there's A LOT that goes into that.  He can't have a woman who's afraid to speak to a crowd, every now and then.  He could have a bit of a Savior complex himself, and genuinely believe he's saving her from being swallowed up by the continuous crowds at the TTH.  But he still needs a woman comfortable with (small) crowds every now and then.  So my prayers will be answered in a few months: if she's active in his church (i.e. without him hovering over her shoulder), is "working" on her photography, and they're not pregnant already,

^ hope that's all coherent, distracted by toddlers telling me to get off already

[JuicyDuggar]

17 minutes ago, BemusedByFundamentalism said:

I'm sorry if this was already discussed earlier. If so, just ignore me ;-)

In attached photo, it appears that a filming crew is taping (on the left), while Josh (behind the guy with the sunglasses) is standing with his back towards the camera. Could it be possible that this is on purpose? That TLC asked him to do so?

ps: I know this is Josh because of another pic I saw somewhere else where it is clear that it's Josh who's standing behind the guy with the sunglasses.

Possible, sure. But not likely. I'm sure he'll be integrated back into the reality TV fold like nothing happened.

[nastyhobbitses]

25 minutes ago, BemusedByFundamentalism said:

I'm sorry if this was already discussed earlier. If so, just ignore me ;-)

In attached photo, it appears that a filming crew is taping (on the left), while Josh (behind the guy with the sunglasses) is standing with his back towards the camera. Could it be possible that this is on purpose? That TLC asked him to do so?

ps: I know this is Josh because of another pic I saw somewhere else where it is clear that it's Josh who's standing behind the guy with the sunglasses.

Totally off-topic, but Joy is absolutely stunning in this photo. Even though I don't love her dress color, this whole look suits her beautifully. I also really hope she isn't courting now; she (like all her sisters) deserves a better, freer life than the one she was born into.

[seraaa]

9 hours ago, Meridae said:

It's about appropriate attire, not sexism. Michelle certainly has the resources to find dressier yet comfortable shoes, or even spruce up her current pair, yet she chose not to.

But maybe she doesn't care about having dressy and comfortable shoes. Maybe it's not that important in her life. Maybe she doesn't even think about it.  It's clear that nobody else around her minds, otherwise she'd have changed by now.

And if she doesn't care, and her family doesn't care, doesn't that make them "appropriate" by default?

[seraaa]

On 11/9/2016 at 3:23 AM, goldengrove said:

Hello all, another lurker here...y'all are my kind of folks

I am more than a little concerned about what Jinger will do with her time, after all the wedding excitement dies down.  Yes, there is Jeremy's little church,  her presence might bring in new people,  her photography, and probably all too soon, baby after baby... *sigh*

I'm very worried that the culture shock and isolation from her family will not be easy for Jinger.  Wiki says that Laredo is 95.6% Latino/Hispanic, which is not surprising right on the border.  I'm wondering what percentage of this population speaks English as well?  I'm guessing that Jinger doesn't speak much Spanish,  hopefully Jeremy does.

 

Laredo has a relatively high rate of bilingualism, if I recall correctly. It will certainly be a change.

[Kak]

http://people.com/celebrity/jinger-duggar-jeremy-vuolo-wedding-day-details/

Michelle is quoted as saying that Jeremy is a great leader and Jinger is a great follower, and that makes them well balanced.

Disgusting, truly revolting. 

[alba]

http://people.com/celebrity/jinger-duggar-jeremy-vuolo-wedding-day-details/
Michelle is quoted as saying that Jeremy is a great leader and Jinger is a great follower, and that makes them well balanced.
Disgusting, truly revolting. 

What the fuck did I just read? Paragraphs and paragraphs of totally normal wedding stuff (pretty dress, yummy food, thematic decorations) and then BAM, Michelle bringing on the misogyny.

And THAT is what's so dangerous about this beautiful fairytale wedding, because it normalises this cult in a way the t-shirt dress weddings don't. Jinger looks beautiful and I hope she had a lovely day, but I hope even more that she married a man who respects her and encourages her to make her own choices.

(Sidenote: 13 foot train?! That sounds like it would be awful if she had to pee.)

[justmy2cents]

There were some more pictures on People.com live.  As we suspected Jinger wore shoes!  Heals no less and they were in a bold floral pattern.  There was a a bride with bridesmaid pictures.  Anna is one and there were a couple I didn't recognize.   The slide show went a little quick.  Glad she had a cake and not just cupcakes.  Very pinteresty the whole thing.

[nst]

45 minutes ago, Kak said:

http://people.com/celebrity/jinger-duggar-jeremy-vuolo-wedding-day-details/

Michelle is quoted as saying that Jeremy is a great leader and Jinger is a great follower, and that makes them well balanced.

Disgusting, truly revolting. 

Im sorry she is a great follower sounds like she is a sheep - I would hate being called that. 

and a hand beaded lace gown sounds with a 13 ft train sounds expensive 

isn't lace expensive? 

burnt orange, eggplant and olive hues were their colors - 

I like olives 

event planner Christina Moore.'s website is classy - Is Jinger classier than her sisters?   It looks like this woman can spend a lot of money 

So they had a cake - and cheese and crackers were served.....

sounds like a tea party not a wedding 

and I will be taking one for the team and buying the magazine

23 minutes ago, alba said:

 

What the fuck did I just read? Paragraphs and paragraphs of totally normal wedding stuff (pretty dress, yummy food, thematic decorations) and then BAM, Michelle bringing on the misogyny.

And THAT is what's so dangerous about this beautiful fairytale wedding, because it normalises this cult in a way the t-shirt dress weddings don't. Jinger looks beautiful and I hope she had a lovely day, but I hope even more that she married a man who respects her and encourages her to make her own choices.

(Sidenote: 13 foot train?! That sounds like it would be awful if she had to pee.)

 

why does Michelle have to bring the misogny at every opportunity ? 

why is this wedding all of a sudden classier ? why is this ok? 

why is the cult more exposed now yet somewhat classier to the humpers

between the wedding and trump - I am exhausted 

26 minutes ago, alba said:

 

What the fuck did I just read? Paragraphs and paragraphs of totally normal wedding stuff (pretty dress, yummy food, thematic decorations) and then BAM, Michelle bringing on the misogyny.

And THAT is what's so dangerous about this beautiful fairytale wedding, because it normalises this cult in a way the t-shirt dress weddings don't. Jinger looks beautiful and I hope she had a lovely day, but I hope even more that she married a man who respects her and encourages her to make her own choices.

(Sidenote: 13 foot train?! That sounds like it would be awful if she had to pee.)

 

who had a tshirt wedding dress? 

the only thing I really believed and i wonder if it is true is that her bridesmaids had to stand behind her because that is jinger 

to a tee - she needs all that support -instead of going BRING IT ON

 

[Captain Obvious]

13 minutes ago, nst said:

who had a tshirt wedding dress? 

Anna Duggar is the main one, but there have been others 

[nst]

Just now, Captain Obvious said:

Anna Duggar is the main one, but there have been others 

- see I could care less about Anna - I should have stated that 

[eveandadam]

17 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Anna Duggar is the main one, but there have been others 

I don't know why everyone seems to dislike her wedding dress. I think it it timeless, classy and it fitted her very well. Look at Jill's wedding dress e.g. it was not fitted right und Jessa's dress was too large for her, too and had a too low cut cleavage even for my taste. come on folks, Anna's should have worn a belt with it and the dress would be perfect.