Sale of a Church

[MamaJunebug]

If it just is too off-topic, I leave it to another mod to move it to Chatter or to tell me to do so. (and if you do tell me to do so, I will. :| I guess I just want the word to get out about this abuse of power by TPTB in southern Minnesota.

The braintrust that is the board of directors of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod's Southern Minnesota District has put up for sale a church building that welcomes a vibrant congregation of -- wait for it -- young, university-aged individuals as well as families and geezers!!!!!!!!!!

http://kstp.com/news/stories/S2294889.shtml?cat=1

In the interview, it's said (by the pastor or the reporter, CRS this morning) that TPTB acknowledge that the church is not a financial drain, but that TPTB say they will take the money from the sale (asking price, $8M) and start ministries elsewhere.

:shock:

I'm steaming. Again, I'm not sure how it fits into our work against ...

... patriarchialism (except that nominally the LCMS is a no-women-pastors church, although they do have women on boards at most levels) or ...

... fundamentalism (since LCMS is not fundamentalist in that they fully expect their congregants to ask questions and to understand their faith) or ...

... dominionism (all LCMS churches and individuals I've ever heard speak about the subject, hold fast to Luther's (if not Jesus's) doctrine of the two kingdoms.

The two kingdoms doctrine probably is anathema to Scott and Doug and the wheelchair dude and Capn Bret and Rousas J (RIP): In it, we acknowledge that God is sovereign over heaven and earth, and that civil governments exist on earth that are not necessarily in line with Christian doctrine, but that God permits them to be there for some reason and that we must "render to Caesar those things that are Caesar and to God those things that are God's" (--J. of Nazareth, called the Messiah).

So again, thanks for permitting me this bit of publicity and ventage. And feel free to move it if need be. I just want to get the word out about the stupidity of the proposed sale.

[GenerationCedarchip]

Well, it sounds like a church behaving badly and we certainly talk about that here, so I guess that would make it relevant. Hopefully my mental gymnastics weren't quite on the level of fundie interpretation of Scritpure when I came up with that. :P

[MamaJunebug]

Thanks, GC! :) Except in this case its church bureaucrats, not a congregation, behaving badly. And I think your mental acuity gymnastics, if you insist, is as unfundie as it gets!

[Bella99]

Lovely chapel. The people that want to sell it so that it can be torn down are swine.

[MamaJunebug]

Lovely chapel. The people that want to sell it so that it can be torn down are swine.

Bless you, Bella! That's it! Profits before people. Ignore the ones you "already have" in quest of moar missions moar missions!!!

The attraction of college-age kids - the demographic most likely to wander away from church - to this doomed church is as nothing to the Movers And Shakers in MN. At least, in theory, Scott Brown does not sell one place of worship to commercial/multi-residential developers when he "plants" a new father idolizing family integrated church. Scott Brown, Liberace of the VF group, is smarter - possbily even bigger-hearted - than some seminary-trained Lutherans.

And in Minnesota, yet.

I grieve.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Missouri Synod has always been very evangelical.....and we know they only like Maxwell-ish kids so that rules out students. And, only Godly married couples etc, etc.....

[MamaJunebug]

Missouri Synod has always been very evangelical.....and we know they only like Maxwell-ish kids so that rules out students. And, only Godly married couples etc, etc.....

:lol: Naaaaahhhh ..... untrue. That's the thing, if they see Maxwellian kids (robotic, right?), they get very concerned. Down-to-earth people. They have an annual youth event that's all strobe lights and bands of whatever-oeuvre-is-in-at-the-moment as well as higherthings.org, a more cerebral version for youth who actually want to think about their faith.

When i was in college in the ... nevermind, they were very laissez-faire about student ministry. Well, it was the early '70s, before anybody realized just how massive the exodus of young people from organized religion was going to be.

But they've really improved since then. have given a lot of thought, mostly improving from kitschy, "we're trying so hard to be hip" books like "Wait a minute Moses" and "Are you joking, Jeremiah?" and going instead to orgs like Higher Things and to college ministry that gives kids credit for being Young Adults With Adult Minds.

My experience - all 60-plus years of it - has been that yes, as the Greatest Generation [hate that term, but it's handy] attritions on up to Heaven, we baby boomers have been bringing more expressiveness and joy into things. Including the acknowledgment that youth is not a bad thing and that ... well, that the world's changing, so we need to be on alert to keep youth or offer youth something good.

That's why this whole sordid "sell a church that attracts and serves young adults to a Starbucks [sic] and we can play with cash, cash, cash!!!!" riles me!!!! :cry:

[MrsYoungie]

I'm not a church person so excuse me for being a bit confuddled. Why isn't a church on a campus already considered a campus ministry?

[Maggie Mae]

I'm a little confused. The group that owns the building wants to sell it, right? Why are the allowed to own a building on a college campus? Why is the college allowing a church to be on their campus? Isn't a church a group of people? Couldn't they continue to meet on campus somewhere else? What am I missing?

[hoipolloi]

They want to raze & sell an established -- and working -- university chapel in order to fund campus ministries elsewhere in the state?

Is it only money that prevents the board from doing this outreach anyway? If so, it doesn't speak well for the board's depth of religious faith or confidence in its ministry & purpose.