Jill & Jessa Counting On, Regular Season 1

[Georgiana]

6 minutes ago, Eatingintheprayercloset said:

Did anyone find it disturbing when Jana was saying how Anna is a strong person for sticking by Josh and deciding to face her fears AKA stay with Josh? To the Duggars, if Anna took the M'kids and left she would be less of a wife/woman. Being a single mother is tough as hell and you need to be a strong person to do it alone. We all knew that the Duggars would have shamed Anna if she chose that path, but Jana's comment confirmed their potential shaming. Even if Anna wants to leave Pillsbury Doughboy, the fear of failing her wife duties in the eyes of God/ her in-laws prevents that. 

 

It made me mad when she first said it, but with every day that goes by, Anna's comment from way back about how even having an imperfect husband like Josh is better than being a working woman gets sadder and sadder.

She truly has been brainwashed to believe that there is no happiness outside of her marriage, and that no matter how bad it gets, it will ALWAYS be better than being on her own.  

Anna dear, you have the rights to a fairly substantial nest egg, and if the Duggars fight you on it, they lose whatever moral appeal they have left.  Get yours, get out, go to school, and realize there is a WHOLE WORLD of happiness outside of that sentient blob of chickenetti that calls himself your husband.  

[SweetFellowshipper]

In another world/setting, I would find a spouse forgiving their spouse for cheating to be a positive thing. My husband's told me that if I ever cheated, he'd be angry and mistrusting for a long, long time, but he'd forgive me and stay with me. I do think people can forgive and move past even the worst of betrayals, and it can even bring people closer together.

However, this doesn't apply here because 1) Anna might be a strong person, but she's not a hero for forgiving Josh; it just means she's brainwashed, beaten down, and obedient. and 2) I don't believe for a second that Josh truly loves Anna or ever intended on being faithful, or is truly remorseful beyond extreme humiliation. 

I don't find anything the Duggars say disturbing anymore. I've never heard a single one of them express anything truly outside the box (goes for the Bateses too). If anyone ever does or displays any sort of critical thinking skills or spark (beyond wearing pants/having a slightly different wedding/whatever), I'll be the first one to throw them a parade, but...

[Georgiana]

3 minutes ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

In another world/setting, I would find a spouse forgiving their spouse for cheating to be a positive thing. My husband's told me that if I ever cheated, he'd be angry and mistrusting for a long, long time, but he'd forgive me and stay with me. I do think people can forgive and move past even the worst of betrayals, and it can even bring people closer together.

However, this doesn't apply here because 1) Anna might be a strong person, but she's not a hero for forgiving Josh; it just means she's brainwashed, beaten down, and obedient. and 2) I don't believe for a second that Josh truly loves Anna or ever intended on being faithful, or is truly remorseful beyond extreme humiliation. 

It's the choice.

In another setting, one spouse CHOOSES to forgive the other and attempt to rebuild the relationship.

Anna had no real choice to speak of.  She was immediately shipped into the compound in an attempt to isolate her from alternate influences that might give her an alternative position.  She was effectively forced, or at the very least coerced, to stay with Josh.  

The Duggars never, ever intended to let Anna choose to stay with Josh.  They never wanted her to have that freedom because she might choose against their wishes.  They did all they could to get her to stay.  And they did quite a lot.

[DuggarWatch]

8 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

Anna had no real choice to speak of.  She was immediately shipped into the compound in an attempt to isolate her from alternate influences that might give her an alternative position.  She was effectively forced, or at the very least coerced, to stay with Josh.  

The Duggars never, ever intended to let Anna choose to stay with Josh.  They never wanted her to have that freedom because she might choose against their wishes.  They did all they could to get her to stay.  And they did quite a lot.

Or, she had a real breakdown and had to be looked after. 

[SweetFellowshipper]

1 minute ago, Georgiana said:

It's the choice.

In another setting, one spouse CHOOSES to forgive the other and attempt to rebuild the relationship.

Anna had no real choice to speak of.  She was immediately shipped into the compound in an attempt to isolate her from alternate influences that might give her an alternative position.  She was effectively forced, or at the very least coerced, to stay with Josh.  

The Duggars never, ever intended to let Anna choose to stay with Josh.  They never wanted her to have that freedom because she might choose against their wishes.  They did all they could to get her to stay.  And they did quite a lot.

Yeah--that's what I was trying to get across (not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing, but, yes, I agree).

And beyond just the Duggars' behavior after the actual incident, there's the little matter of 'lifelong brainwashing' she'd have to get over.

[QuiverDance]

Josh is going to cheat again.  That's all there is to it.  It won't be tomorrow.  But it will happen.  He is restless and unhappy, and she is going to be unhappy in response to his restlessness.  I've seen this play out in my life, in the lives of my friends, etc.  Maybe it's anecdotal, but I've never seen a marriage fully recover from an affair.  

[Mela99]

1 hour ago, catlady said:

maybe Thanksgiving isn't Jesusy enough for them.

I don't think they acknowledge anything that is not directly related to Jesus. Unless maybe it's the 4th of July bc Jesus loves America.

[Jana814]

2 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

Josh is going to cheat again.  That's all there is to it.  It won't be tomorrow.  But it will happen.  He is restless and unhappy, and she is going to be unhappy in response to his restlessness.  I've seen this play out in my life, in the lives of my friends, etc.  Maybe it's anecdotal, but I've never seen a marriage fully recover from an affair.  

I think he is going to cheat again. Just this time he is going to be more careful about not getting caught. 

[Ungodly Grandma]

3 hours ago, Defrauding Feminist ESQ said:

Maybe Jinger didn't look as bronze because Anna stole it all? 

I wish someone would steal the eye liner!

[SweetFellowshipper]

I have seen marriages recover from affairs/cheating, but every situation is different, and I think this one is pretty clear-cut. There was zero foundation for their relationship to begin with, Josh is a narcissist with an eye for the ladies, and Anna is brainwashed to be a doormat.

He'll cheat again.

[Coconut Flan]

Josh and Anna will not get the help they need to heal what ails them and their marriage.  Without change and acknowledgement, the same problems will stay and the pattern will repeat endlessly.

[ksgranola1]

Hannie is getting her starter boobs. Guess that's why she's being moved up in the J'slaves order.

Someone mentioned that Ben seemed "off" in this new episode. I just realized that I recorded it so I'm re-watching.

Not only does he seem "off" but he actually seemed bored & disinterested. Strange reaction from someone

considering this is his only job. Is it too hard for you, Ben?

[Eatingintheprayercloset]

I think Josh WILL cheat again but I don't think Anna will ever leave him. They will just have a long, miserable marriage. They will pop out a few more blessings but it'll make Josh hate his life more. He was never cut out to be a family man. If he grew up secular, he would be a text book deadbeat dad. Hell, maybe if he still had a fundie upbringing minus the TLC spotlight, he would have left Anna two kids ago.  

 

It's one thing to change when you choose to change, but he only came clean when the AM leak happened. He would still be cheating on Anna today if he never got caught.

[DuggarWatch]

14 minutes ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

I have seen marriages recover from affairs/cheating, but every situation is different, and I think this one is pretty clear-cut. There was zero foundation for their relationship to begin with, Josh is a narcissist with an eye for the ladies, and Anna is brainwashed to be a doormat.

He'll cheat again.

The thing about Josh is that he didn't just decide one day to repent, confess and turn his life around.  He was caught and outed when the Ashley Madison website was hacked.  What he experienced was shame and being forced (at least temporarily) to give up his extra-marital activities.  Reminds me of when Jimmy Swaggart was caught soliciting prostitutes, was caught, smeared on the cover of Time magazine, publicly repented, and then turned around and did it again. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Swaggart#Prostitution_scandals

[Mela99]

43 minutes ago, Jana814 said:

I think he is going to cheat again. Just this time he is going to be more careful about not getting caught. 

Would it change anything for anyone if he did? Would Anna reconsider? Would JB and Mullet?

[Bushes of Love]

28 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

Hannie is getting her starter boobs.

Can I just say that 'starter boobs' may be the greatest phrase I've heard in a while.

[Carol]

I think the interesting thing about this is that if I didn't know this family was exceedingly fundamentalist I would have nothing to snark on for the first  3/4's of the show.  I grew up with 6 sisters and 2 brothers and their lives don't seem that different from ours growing up.  The last 1/4 was harder to take, all the talk about god, seasons of life, forgiveness and the appearance of Jim Bob and Michelle was off putting...why wreck what was going well by inserting their own brand of "ick", especially about Josh.  They used Anna for their own purposes, all sadness, drama and lots of tears but, in the end...forgiveness.  I'm sure there was a reason, they had to hook people, round 'em up and then slam the corral door shut hoping that all us would stay around for the upcoming shows.

A couple of other observations.  Their diction and eye contact is stronger, especially among the girls and they seem far more real than before.  And, again with the girls, there are more references to things they're not learning behind the closed doors of the TTH.  Probably another hook but at least it's nice to hear them sound more normal

[LucyManettesForehead]

50 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

It's the choice.

In another setting, one spouse CHOOSES to forgive the other and attempt to rebuild the relationship.

Anna had no real choice to speak of.  She was immediately shipped into the compound in an attempt to isolate her from alternate influences that might give her an alternative position.  She was effectively forced, or at the very least coerced, to stay with Josh.  

The Duggars never, ever intended to let Anna choose to stay with Josh.  They never wanted her to have that freedom because she might choose against their wishes.  They did all they could to get her to stay.  And they did quite a lot.

^this. This is why (combined with the lifetime of brainwashing that lots of people seem to think is something that the girls can just shake off) I will always have sympathy for Anna, even though I find her personal beliefs to be pretty despicable. She doesn't have the agency to say "I don't want to be in this marriage anymore" and even if she did, the fact that she has four young children and no skills would be enough to keep her staying put in a terrible marriage. 

And what's she supposed to do when she's stuck in a terrible marriage (on TV no less)? Of course she's "supporting" Joshley - it's not like she can throw a huge tantrum while on TLC's payroll.

56 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

Josh is going to cheat again.  That's all there is to it.  It won't be tomorrow.  But it will happen.  He is restless and unhappy, and she is going to be unhappy in response to his restlessness.    

Oh absolutely. And I actually believe that some relationships can recover from cheating (to an extent), but it takes real honesty and a good look at the root of the problem, which Jesus camp most definitely did not address. 

[Georgiana]

8 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

Would it change anything for anyone if he did? Would Anna reconsider? Would JB and Mullet?

Probably not.  But Josh might.  

He might get tired of being stuck in an unhappy marriage, he might find someone he really wants to be with, he might get tired of the cost and stress of sneaking around.  He might actually really dislike Anna, both as a person and as a wife.  

Once the gravy train dries up, Josh might see filing for divorce as a real option. Anna, JB, and M can disagree all they want. It wont stop a divorce if Josh files.   

[nst]

42 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

Hannie is getting her starter boobs. Guess that's why she's being moved up in the J'slaves order.

Someone mentioned that Ben seemed "off" in this new episode. I just realized that I recorded it so I'm re-watching.

Not only does he seem "off" but he actually seemed bored & disinterested. Strange reaction from someone

considering this is his only job. Is it too hard for you, Ben?

that was me - who said he seemed off - maybe he is just shocked that Jessa has changed so much 

I mean who would have thought that? I certainly didn't

maybe he didn't want the show  - who am I kidding

 

[O Latin]

I can somewhat believe that Johannah really "wants" to help the older girls more. She's at the age where, if she were a normal kid in public school, she and her peers would be starting to talk about boys, begging their parents to be allowed to wear makeup and see PG-13 movies, paying attention to which clothes are "in", and just generally trying to be more like teenagers than little kids (at least, that's what my friends and I were doing when we were that age). In Duggar world, teenage girls become "ladylike" and help in the kitchen, so that's what Johannah sees and wants to do.

[RoseWilder]

44 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

Josh and Anna will not get the help they need to heal what ails them and their marriage.  Without change and acknowledgement, the same problems will stay and the pattern will repeat endlessly.

Exactly. I just can't see them ever really getting to the root of their problems, especially since religious counseling from people within their cult will never involve actually addressing how the cult has played a role in this mess. 

I actually think this might be one of those situations where the two people in the couple are fundamentally incompatible. Anna clearly wants to stay hardcore Fundie and Josh so obviously does not. They might have been able to stay together if they went Fundie Lite or just became conservative Christians (I know that's still a big maybe) - but I don't see Anna ever agreeing to that and I don't think Josh is cut out to be a hardcore Fundie. I think they would have had trouble achieving long term happiness even if he hadn't cheated because Anna has always seemed better suited and happier with the Fundie lifestyle than Josh. 

[Casserole]

I'm sad. We lost Joy, but #SaveHannie (this picture is 2 years old, but I'd say it's about time for a new baby carrier.)

 

 

[anotherone]

2 hours ago, RoseWilder said:

 

As for why Jessa doesn't learn how to cook now. I don't know, it could be a lack of interest, or it could be she learned from the masters of laziness (her parents) on shirking the responsibilities of being an adult.

Let's see how well that will go over when she adopts some kids and the social worker sees them doing all the housework at age 8.

[DuggarWatch]

17 minutes ago, O Latin said:

I can somewhat believe that Johannah really "wants" to help the older girls more. She's at the age where, if she were a normal kid in public school, she and her peers would be starting to talk about boys, begging their parents to be allowed to wear makeup and see PG-13 movies, paying attention to which clothes are "in", and just generally trying to be more like teenagers than little kids (at least, that's what my friends and I were doing when we were that age). In Duggar world, teenage girls become "ladylike" and help in the kitchen, so that's what Johannah sees and wants to do.

I don't think so!  She's only ten years old.  If she were a normal kid, she's be playing with Barbie dolls and reading Harry Potter books.