Sisterwives Part 2 - Things Get Complicated

[ScreamingIzzy]

Well, there's a whole other thread talking about FLDS with mighty deep pockets, and Kody has wives with connections to those pockets.

And if this statement violates the rule against speculation: let me know.

[gustava]

9 hours ago, FundieFarmer said:

I want to see a website break down who's paying it. We all know there's someone out there dying to find out.

I would, too.  Jonathan Turley, the attorney, is expensive, and is probably not handling the appeal, as appellate work is a different area of legal practice.

[Eternalbluepearl]

Are the Browns still pedaling that awful My Sister-wife's Closet garbage?

[silverspoons]

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 8:52 AM, ScreamingIzzy said:

Well, there's a whole other thread talking about FLDS with mighty deep pockets, and Kody has wives with connections to those pockets.

And if this statement violates the rule against speculation: let me know.

I don't think any of Kody's wives have connections to FLDS money.  Janelle and Kody were raised LDS. Christine and Meri were raised AUB. Robyn might be the one with the closest FLDS link but certainly it  was before she was born that any of her family was active in the FLDS faith.  All of the sister wives have spoken out in southern Utah against the FLDS.

 

I would not be surprised if the attorney was taking the case for free. The state of Utah has had some big issues with dishonesty with several attorney generals recently. There are all sorts of charges and rumors about bribery and favoritism in high profile cases. I believe the attorney general that was in control during Kody's "flight from Utah" and during his first case was charged with a laundry list of dishonest dealings. There seems to be a bunch of lawyers trying to take down the former attorney generals and cases like Kody's and Jeremy Johnson's bring a lot of attention to the issues.

 

[silverspoons]

52 minutes ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

Are the Browns still pedaling that awful My Sister-wife's Closet garbage?

The Closet is MUCH worse. They dropped most of the overpriced custom jewelry. I think maybe they realized the price was way too high. They now are selling Chinese knock off junk and fashion accessories. They sell headbands for $13-20 that you can find at a local Vegas indoor flea market for $1.  It is such a crazy site now selling leg warmers, bedazzled hats, homemade soap and baby blankets, music, business card holders, and even a new clothing line.

I think now that the prices are cheaper and it is possible they are drop shipping, they are selling more. They have a lot of fans. Now that you can get an item for $15-20, I bet they get a lot of fan purchases. I remember a neighbor bought some dirt from Roloff farms. Matt sold dirt for $5 and my neighbor loved that show and was so excited to get her $5 dirt. I can see people somewhere wearing the cheesy legwarmers and scarves.  

[Eternalbluepearl]

 Dirt from Roloff Farms? How Odd. 

[silverspoons]

4 hours ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

 Dirt from Roloff Farms? How Odd. 

Matt knows how to sell, I'll give him that. I think the idea was if you can't come for pumpkin season, get your $5 jar of dirt online. He kept the price low enough that it was an easy sale for fans. Now the dirt is gone and he is pushing salsa.  He also has gone high end with pumpkin season. If you want to met the Roloffs during pumpkin season it is $300 for 1-3 people to spend 45 minutes with one of them (Matt or Amy or one of the kids) .

 I can't understand why people loved the Roloff's that much but as someone who still has her 1980's Days of our lives autograph book under my bed and my husband wears a suit that was worn on prison break to every funeral we go to, I can understand wanting a piece of a favorite show

[Shoobydoo]

I don't think polygamy should be illegal, but I sure as hell don't want to be the poor sap in charge of re-writing tax laws to account for it....

[SweetFellowshipper]

New trailer is up, guys!!

[Waterfall]

If polygamy was decriminalized but not legalized, would the non-legal wives still be considered as single moms from the government's point of view? Kody's crusade to decriminalize polygamy makes me wonder if this isn't a ploy to turn most people's attention away from the fact that his wife, Christine may have committed food stamp fraud.

I came across http://starcasm.net/archives/308187

* Christine lists her previous years’ income that includes receiving $5,400 in food stamps between 2009 and 2010

I am not sure how real these documents are so  grain of salt statement applies here. If Christine was getting food stamps but living in the same polygamy house as her husband and her sister wives (meaning they could have been sharing income/food stamps with each), wouldn't that count as food stamp fraud? After all she was probably getting support from Kody and her sister wives, so if she was on food stamps, why Kody and wives weren't helping her financially?

In 2010, when their show started, Christine was clearly living with Kody (at least when they started filming). Some viewers mentioned seeing Christine holding what appeared to be a food stamp card in one episode (I never went back and re-watched the first or any season..so again grain of salt statement). Now  it could have been that Christine was living apart from Kody and his wives between 2009-2010 (still doesn't explain why she would be on food stamps. After all the AUB states they disapprove of their members using government assistance to take care of their polygamous families. And it isn't like she didn't know her babies' daddy) and only started living with them when they started filming but that was never mentioned.

I do believe their religious persecution story (when they ran from Utah to Las Vegas) tug at a lot of viewers' heart strings. Lots of people pitied them. So I think the little guy going after "the man" government (David vs Goliath) story line was simply to capitalize on their viewers who pitied them as well as  stop the naysayers and those who pointed out the food stamps fraud that may have been committed by the Brown family.

This is just my opinions and I admit I could be wrong or grasping at straws here.

[JMO]

I wouldn't be surprised if she used a government food assistance program.  Since she wasn't legally married to him she wouldn't have to declare his income and she was legally an unmarried SAHM.  I'm torn on this one.  On the one hand I'm sure they needed the food to help feed all their kids (I think she had 5 at that time).  She also talked in earlier seasons about her penchant for managing a large pantry and for being responsible for only the food for her kids. On the other hand, she wasn't actually a single mom without support.  She needed the government help since she was a 3rd wife and the other adults weren't making enough to support all the kids.  

[slp]

I am on food stamps.  In my state (and I know the rules are different in different states), I know that I have to declare every cent that comes into my house.  Including if my children earn money.  So if my two teenage daughters get jobs, I have to put that down as income, whether i use their money or not.  Unless I say that they purchase and prepare their own food.

My former sister in law is on food stamps, and she has to put down all the income in her household, even if those adults are not her husband, etc.  So she has to put down her parents' incomes on her form, b/c they live in the same house. 

So I'm not sure how Christine got away with this unless she lied.  I *guess* she could 'fudge' a little and say that she lived in a triplex and then not have to list Meri, Janelle, and Kody's incomes.  Or she could have probably said they purchased and prepared their own food, which was probably true for Meri and Janelle at least.

[mstee]

I'm bummed to hear how many of the college aged kids aren't in school anymore. I get that college isn't the path for everyone, but they all were in school and it seemed to be going well.

[AliceInFundyland]

My quick take on the kids and school-based on their personalities from the show... Maddie I could see returning at some point but has also expressed desires to get the fuck away from her family.  If Hunter's finishing...wasn't he in ROTC? Discipline and structure and so forth. Good for him. Mykelti was the rebellious one so perhaps it's not so odd that she isn't in school. I remain thrilled that Mariah is sensible as she always seemed and has become progressive and a Bernie supporter. She and Logan got furthest into school before the shit hit the fan (so to speak) and they both seem to have that oldest child syndrome thing happening. I bet they finish. And Aspyn always seemed like a hard worker whether she finishes or not. Eldest daughter of her group.

[Granwych]

On 4/4/2016 at 5:02 PM, silverspoons said:

I saw some articles saying the sister wives gang might be moving again. I was in doubt since the houses are not up for sale or in foreclosure (that I can find). I was searching and found sisterwives.us , a dating site for couples looking for sister wives. I'm not sure if this site has been discussed before but it is eye opening how people are all across the county and are so diverse in age and backgrounds (from young professionals to seniors).

I used to browse a site years ago called 3 coins, run by a man and his two wives.  They ran ads for couples looking for sisterwives, men looking for sisterwives(one bottom-feeder wanted a mother/daughter duo) and single women looking to join families.  Then one of the man's wives left him, and the remaining two couldn't afford to keep the site running.  It was hugely entertaining, though.

 

[DaisyD]

It's also entirely possible that during the economic downturn 3 adults did not earn enough money to support 21 people (that's 7 mouths to feed for each income). With so many babies it makes sense for someone to stay home rather than pay for all of that childcare. Isn't Kody in some type of sales? Christine may not have had to lie to get food stamps (other than about her religious beliefs). 

[silverspoons]

11 hours ago, slp said:

I am on food stamps.  In my state (and I know the rules are different in different states), I know that I have to declare every cent that comes into my house.  Including if my children earn money.  So if my two teenage daughters get jobs, I have to put that down as income, whether i use their money or not.  Unless I say that they purchase and prepare their own food.

My former sister in law is on food stamps, and she has to put down all the income in her household, even if those adults are not her husband, etc.  So she has to put down her parents' incomes on her form, b/c they live in the same house. 

So I'm not sure how Christine got away with this unless she lied.  I *guess* she could 'fudge' a little and say that she lived in a triplex and then not have to list Meri, Janelle, and Kody's incomes.  Or she could have probably said they purchased and prepared their own food, which was probably true for Meri and Janelle at least.

You are correct, the Lehi house was not a true triplex so they were suppose to list everyone in the house in Utah. I know that Utah included all incomes because I have worked trying to help disabled, seniors and veterans and benefits can be dropped if one extra person moves in even if it is it help with medical care.

When we first meet the Browns, Janelle made 54k with full benefits paid at 100% (this is public record), Meri worked for a WWASP program (I know many people who have worked for WWASP) so lets say she made $28k which is a low estimate, Kody worked in ad sales (using a comp from another employee) low estimate 38k and he had health benefits available for all kids. So they had a household income of $120k. Their house payment , taxes and all utilites would average $2200 a month. The house was not decorated fancy and they did not wear designer clothes. They could have easily paid for food.

 

37 minutes ago, daisyd681 said:

It's also entirely possible that during the economic downturn 3 adults did not earn enough money to support 21 people (that's 7 mouths to feed for each income). With so many babies it makes sense for someone to stay home rather than pay for all of that childcare. Isn't Kody in some type of sales? Christine may not have had to lie to get food stamps (other than about her religious beliefs). 

Christine never worked outside the home. When we first met the family, they were living in Lehi and on welfare. All the kids were school aged. Then Christine got pregnant with Truley. There were no babies to watch. Christine wanted to homeschool some of the kids and I don't think she ever wanted to work. She wanted to be the SAHM.

Besides Janelle; Robyn Meri and Christine grew up thinking welfare was a right. They didn't even think twice about applying. Also remember Janelle's job was a supervisor for the state of Utah in the welfare department. She knew the rules and she knows as do most people here that Utah turns a blind eye towards welfare fraud. I have watched so much open welfare fraud here in Utah with the middle-upper middle class  of all faiths and the state knows and just cant handle the case loads and the population knows how to work the system. Even when my son was 11 and started working in the lunch room as a clerk asked me how come students that live in million dollar gated homes get free lunch? The numbers(% of people on welfare vs home price vs home ownership vs babies born on welfare)  are obvious that it is rampant and it rarely gets even a slap on the hand. The community whether it LDS or FLDS or AUB stick up for each other and cover it up.

[DaisyD]

So, by your estimate they made $120 per year. According to the Utah government website a family of 10 qualifies for food stamps at $5,332 per month. As that's as high as the chart goes, I'll double it. That makes a qualifying income of $10,664 per month for a family of 20. They have 21, but I'm not positive how the income scales up and this isn't a court. 10,664 x 12 months is a qualifying annual income of $127,968. 

I'm not saying that they didn't fudge the details, all I'm saying is that it's completely possible that they didn't. 

[Bethella]

3 minutes ago, daisyd681 said:

I'm not saying that they didn't fudge the details, all I'm saying is that it's completely possible that they didn't. 

I think it's rather likely that they didn't do anything illegal because Utah investigated them after the show premiered. If there was evidence of welfare fraud they probably would have been arrested, I doubt the move to Vegas would have prevented that from happening.

[Imagine20]

I'm over this now. You've got an unlikable family on TV who are obviously having difficulties, but they won't explore them on the TV show, and yet or for dancing routines and silly parties.

Meanwhile, there's the catfish fighting with characters he's created which use crude, disgusting language at times. And they totes have evidence of "he" and physically together, but won't show them. Nor will he show how whole face. It's freaking.   Not to mention the catfishers blog and new "book." I use quotation marks because books should have some literary values and not just a reason to scan on the few who might actually buy it. 

I'm don't with that hot mess.

[DaisyD]

It does appear that they will discuss the catfish further in the next season. We'll see I suppose. Did anyone else wish Meri had said what she wanted to say in that clip? She said "She messed with the wrong... person" but it looked like she wanted to say bitch.

[SweetFellowshipper]

It's also confusing because technically "sister wives" ARE kind of single moms, financially. You might be getting a lot more help than the average single mom, but still less than someone who has access to all of their spouse's income. This is especially complicated because in Kody's family, each spouse has their own budget, so it's not even like the money is fully pooled. Food stamps and welfare are for people who don't have enough money and need some help...most sister wives do. There is a great deal of welfare fraud in the polygamist community, and that makes it suspicious, but the fact is that if you're a married mother with one husband you generally have access to more funds.

[Georgiana]

22 hours ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

It's also confusing because technically "sister wives" ARE kind of single moms, financially. You might be getting a lot more help than the average single mom, but still less than someone who has access to all of their spouse's income. This is especially complicated because in Kody's family, each spouse has their own budget, so it's not even like the money is fully pooled. Food stamps and welfare are for people who don't have enough money and need some help...most sister wives do. There is a great deal of welfare fraud in the polygamist community, and that makes it suspicious, but the fact is that if you're a married mother with one husband you generally have access to more funds.

This is why, while I don't think polygamy should be criminalized, I also do not support extending marriage benefits to plural marriages.  

The marriage benefits granted by the State are not so much "rights" as they are incentives.  The state offers these incentives to couples because entering into a contractual marriage provides various forms of stability that are beneficial to society as a whole.  This encourages couples to marry as opposed to just live together with no formal arrangement (which can result in one member of the couple getting shafted if the couple dissolves after a long term relationship).  

But I don't think the plural family model does benefit society.  It is just not feasible to support such a large family on partial incomes.  The model almost REQUIRES the state to pick up the slack.  So while I am OK with people entering into plural marriages, I don't think it should be encouraged by the state.   .  

[FundieFarmer]

I see what you're saying and agree, @Georgiana. I guess I wonder where they're going to be able to draw the line with that. We also run into mega-families like the Duggars, who have an unusually large amount of children and usually can't support them all. I'd guess in most cases, the state has to pick up the slack there too. The Duggars actually have more kids- but less adults- than the Browns. I just wonder where they'll be able to draw the line on what is too many people vs. income, etc.

[Georgiana]

2 minutes ago, FundieFarmer said:

I see what you're saying and agree, @Georgiana. I guess I wonder where they're going to be able to draw the line with that. We also run into mega-families like the Duggars, who have an unusually large amount of children and usually can't support them all. I'd guess in most cases, the state has to pick up the slack there too. The Duggars actually have more kids- but less adults- than the Browns. I just wonder where they'll be able to draw the line on what is too many people vs. income, etc.

Oh sure.  And there are going to be two parent families with a "normal" amount of kids that need help too.  I'm not against that.  Yeah, sometimes it doesn't work as well as you hope thanks to life, but overall, the two parent model is a successful model.  More often than not, it works, and provides security and support to the entire (and often extended) family.  

It's like finances.  The two parent model is like living below your means, investing wisely, and putting money away into savings and retirement accounts every month.  Does it guarantee you wont go bankrupt?  No.  You could be one major accident/cancer battle away from losing it all.  But it is still a good model.  And for most people, it will give them financial security.

Polygamy is like overspending every month, using credit to make up the difference, putting nothing in savings, and only paying the minimum every month on your bills.  Sure, you COULD win the lottery, but eventually it will catch up to most people...because the model is a failing model.