Jill Duggar Dillard Part 8: They Call Him Choo Choo?

[EmCatlyn]

39 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

 

Well IMO they do idol worship, praying to Statues of Mary, praying to saints.  As for the disregard of the bible, the church I attended bibles were NOT used, they had "the gospels" but that is it, an actually physical bible was never necessary.  We were given booklets that had the 4 gospels.  I'm am NOT kidding when I say we were not allowed to question why things where they way they were, so I'm very uninformed in much of the details of the catholic church.  When I was kicked out of CCD class in 2nd grade for asking to many questions, so I pretty much stopped paying attention when I was 8. 

I don't know enough outside of the ONE church we attended until I was 17, to argue with others.  These were my opinions gained from my personal experiences growing up. 

Yes, Catholics pray in front of statues.  But that doesn't mean that Catolics worship statues.  Americans pledge allegiance to the flag and stand up in respect when the flag passes, but that doesn't mean Americans don't know the difference between a piece of cloth and our country.  Similarly Catholics see the statue as symbolic.  It stands for Jesus or Mary or St . Whomever.  And when Catholics pray to figures other than the One in Three, they are just asking the Saint or Virgin to intercede (to put in a good word) with God.

I was brought up loosely Catholic by parents who were not regular churchgoers, but when I made my first communion we were living in a deeply Catholic country and my religious teaching during that period was very traditional.  We were taught that the statue was there to help us focus our attention, not that the statue was something to worship.  Therefore, I think that people who say that Catholics worship idols either don't know what worshipping idols means or don't know what the Catholic Church really teaches.

Regarding the Bible, I was give a children's bible when I made my first communion along with a book of prayers and a rosary.   I believe that if I had continued in religious instruction, I would eventually have been taught more bible as I got older.  But like you I can only go from what I experienced.

The bible is read through the Catholic religious service.  It may not be read the way it is read in the Baptist but it is read.

[Grimalkin]

1 hour ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Well IMO they do idol worship, praying to Statues of Mary, praying to saints.  As for the disregard of the bible, the church I attended bibles were NOT used, they had "the gospels" but that is it, an actually physical bible was never necessary.  We were given booklets that had the 4 gospels.  I'm am NOT kidding when I say we were not allowed to question why things where they way they were, so I'm very uninformed in much of the details of the catholic church.  When I was kicked out of CCD class in 2nd grade for asking to many questions, so I pretty much stopped paying attention when I was 8. 

 

I don't know enough outside of the ONE church we attended until I was 17, to argue with others.  These were my opinions gained from my personal experiences growing up. 

Opinions are not facts. you say you went to CCD without question or complaint, then got kicked out as a second grader (preparing for first communion) for asking too many questions? Maybe you should of asked your parents the questions, or maybe you were disruptive because the teacher could not finish her lessons. But I cant recall ever having a second grader asking so many provocative challenging questions that I was flustered. Honestly ant teacher having a kid like that should have them ask their parents and ask for more parent involvement. Religious education hopefully involves the whole family. If it really did happen as you remember it then you had a bad teacher. I am sure there are badSunday School teachers in every denomination. Lastly, just because I don't remember a lot about the bible from childhood does not mean it wasn't taught to me. I barely recall any of my Social Studies lessons too.

[PennySycamore]

You are probably more exposed to scripture during a typical Catholic Mass that you are in many non-liturgical churches.  There is a reading from the Old Testament, the Epistles, a Psalm and a reading from the Gospel.  The same is true for most liturgical churches.  Catholics may not take their Bibles to church with them, but they are certainly exposed to scripture there.

[SilverBeach]

On 12/1/2015 at 2:44 PM, Rachel333 said:

I do notice that a lot of Christians seem awfully comfortable with the idea that their god is going to torture people for eternity just for not believing in him the right way.

I am a Christ follower and I believe no such thing.

[kjmackin]

Missouri also does not  allow you to take communion even if you are member of another Lutheran Synod. 

[EmCatlyn]

11 minutes ago, kjmackin said:

Missouri also does not  allow you to take communion even if you are member of another Lutheran Synod. 

They are as bad as the RCatholics then.

[Rachel333]

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

I am a Christ follower and I believe no such thing.

There are definitely Christians who don't believe in Hell, which is why I'm always careful not to imply that every Christian believes or behaves a certain way.  I can guarantee that the Dillards and Duggars, like many other Christians, do believe that God sends people to Hell to be tortured eternally just because they had the wrong beliefs in their short, finite lives. That's certainly what I was taught and a lot of people I know would consider it a dangerously non-Christian idea to deny the existence of Hell. Most Americans do still believe in Hell so I think Christians who don't believe in Hell would be in the minority, at least in the US.

[HarryPotterFan]

30 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

There are definitely Christians who don't believe in Hell, which is why I'm always careful not to imply that every Christian believes or behaves a certain way.  I can guarantee that the Dillards and Duggars, like many other Christians, do believe that God sends people to Hell to be tortured eternally just because they had the wrong beliefs in their short, finite lives. That's certainly what I was taught and a lot of people I know would consider it a dangerously non-Christian idea to deny the existence of Hell. Most Americans do still believe in Hell so I think Christians who don't believe in Hell would be in the minority, at least in the US.

And then there are those assholes like that guy I went to high school with who accused me of killing Jesus and declared I was going to hell for it, whether I believed in it or not. 

This thread is very educational. I never heard of Synods until now.

[Mercer]

5 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

...who accused me of killing Jesus...

You must be very old, then!

[HarryPotterFan]

3 minutes ago, Mercer said:

You must be very old, then!

That would certainly explain my bad back! But yeah, if it wasn't for me apparently Jesus would be very old too!

[paganhomeschooler]

10 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Well IMO they do idol worship, praying to Statues of Mary, praying to saints.  As for the disregard of the bible, the church I attended bibles were NOT used, they had "the gospels" but that is it, an actually physical bible was never necessary.  We were given booklets that had the 4 gospels.  I'm am NOT kidding when I say we were not allowed to question why things where they way they were, so I'm very uninformed in much of the details of the catholic church.  When I was kicked out of CCD class in 2nd grade for asking to many questions, so I pretty much stopped paying attention when I was 8. 

 

I don't know enough outside of the ONE church we attended until I was 17, to argue with others.  These were my opinions gained from my personal experiences growing up. 

I went to Catholic School for 9 years.  We most certainly read the Bible.  Probably not in 2nd grade.  We read the whole thing, cover to cover, including all the begots in 6th grade, though.  We also read the old and new testaments separately.  

Not only did they read the gospel at every mass, they also did readings from other parts of the Bible.  2 of them, in fact.  I'm sorry you evidently had a shitty version of Catholic, but as an ex-Catholic, we did read the Bible.  We were allowed to question.  We had religion class every day.  We not only learned about our religion, but we learned about others.  In fact, it is the questioning and knowledge I received in my Catholic education that encouraged me to turn pagan!  lol  Our CCD teacher even told us for the love of all things holy, please use birth control!  

 

[sawasdee]

29 minutes ago, paganhomeschooler said:

I went to Catholic School for 9 years.  We most certainly read the Bible.  Probably not in 2nd grade.  We read the whole thing, cover to cover, including all the begots in 6th grade, though.  We also read the old and new testaments separately.  

Not only did they read the gospel at every mass, they also did readings from other parts of the Bible.  2 of them, in fact.  I'm sorry you evidently had a shitty version of Catholic, but as an ex-Catholic, we did read the Bible.  We were allowed to question.  We had religion class every day.  We not only learned about our religion, but we learned about others.  In fact, it is the questioning and knowledge I received in my Catholic education that encouraged me to turn pagan!  lol  Our CCD teacher even told us for the love of all things holy, please use birth control!  

 

Very similar experience for me! When I went to Grammar school at age 11, we were each given a Douai Bible which we studied for the rest of our time at the school, and took with us when we left.

[sockinshoe]

30 minutes ago, Rachel333 said: There are definitely Christians who don't believe in Hell, which is why I'm always careful not to imply that every Christian believes or behaves a certain way. [emoji4] I can guarantee that the Dillards and Duggars, like many other Christians, do believe that God sends people to Hell to be tortured eternally just because they had the wrong beliefs in their short, finite lives. That's certainly what I was taught and a lot of people I know would consider it a dangerously non-Christian idea to deny the existence of Hell. Most Americans do still believe in Hell so I think Christians who don't believe in Hell would be in the minority, at least in the US.

And then there are those assholes like that guy I went to high school with who accused me of killing Jesus and declared I was going to hell for it, whether I believed in it or not. 

This thread is very educational. I never heard of Synods until now.

That happened to me last year at university! It was Easter Sunday, to boot, and my boyfriend had to restrain me or I would have lunged straight for the guy's jugular.

[Drala]

RE: Catholics and the Bible.  I used to teach 9th/10th grade religion in a Catholic school.  The curriculum was....drumroll...Old and New Testament.  We studied the literary, historic and cultural contexts of the scriptures as well as key passages.  I'm no longer Catholic, but I can most definitely say Catholics read and study scripture.  They just don't get into bibliolatry like some of the solo scriptura folks are prone to do.

 

[Four is Enough]

Cradle Catholic here. Attended 12 years of Catholic schools. Married in Catholic ceremony. Four kids brought up as Catholic. Worked in a Catholic school.

I can assure you that the statues, windows, posters, etc. are ART, depicting the Blessed Mother, events of the life and ministry of Jesus, or saints whose special talents or ministries encourage us to use our talents to worship GOD. These are memory aids, nothing else, just as the beautifully illuminated Books of Hours of the Middle Ages, or the stained glass windows, helped the illiterate remember the Gospels they heard during Mass or other services.

Kids in school used Gospel stories to make their art pieces for  parent visitors, for instance. Prep for sacraments was chock full of Bible. We catholics may not carry our bibles around much, but neither do we bash people with them. We have our readings during the liturgical years which come straight from the Bible.

I do not understand why people think that Catholics don't use the Bible.

[SilverBeach]

10 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

There are definitely Christians who don't believe in Hell, which is why I'm always careful not to imply that every Christian believes or behaves a certain way.  I can guarantee that the Dillards and Duggars, like many other Christians, do believe that God sends people to Hell to be tortured eternally just because they had the wrong beliefs in their short, finite lives. That's certainly what I was taught and a lot of people I know would consider it a dangerously non-Christian idea to deny the existence of Hell. Most Americans do still believe in Hell so I think Christians who don't believe in Hell would be in the minority, at least in the US.

Fundy belief, thankful I am far, far from fundy.

[Grimalkin]

10 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

They are as bad as the RCatholics then.

I am a lapsed adult convert Catholic and do not receive communion because my marriage technically is not valid (and I don't care).Catholics do believe Christ is present in the Eucharist,(which I cannot get my head around, another reason I don't participate) I don't know what you believe but think about it from that perspective. Holy Communion is sacred. If you don't believe that or feel that way it is insulting to insist on participating. If I were at a religious service for another religion I would be very mindful to respect their beliefs even if I did not agree or understand. 

(I may of missed the context in your comment, not attacking you)

[lascuba]

5 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

Cradle Catholic here. Attended 12 years of Catholic schools. Married in Catholic ceremony. Four kids brought up as Catholic. Worked in a Catholic school.

I can assure you that the statues, windows, posters, etc. are ART, depicting the Blessed Mother, events of the life and ministry of Jesus, or saints whose special talents or ministries encourage us to use our talents to worship GOD. These are memory aids, nothing else, just as the beautifully illuminated Books of Hours of the Middle Ages, or the stained glass windows, helped the illiterate remember the Gospels they heard during Mass or other services.

Kids in school used Gospel stories to make their art pieces for  parent visitors, for instance. Prep for sacraments was chock full of Bible. We catholics may not carry our bibles around much, but neither do we bash people with them. We have our readings during the liturgical years which come straight from the Bible.

I do not understand why people think that Catholics don't use the Bible.

Is it because they aren't literalists like fundies, do you think? When it comes to the Old Testament, Catholics seem to have a much better understanding of historical context than fundies, which is why the Vatican has espoused evolution, for example.

[2manyKidzzz]

Well, each religion thinks they are totally right and others are not. I was raised RC and I didn't know we were viewed with such suspicion for a long time. But, on the other hand, they told us we were "The One True Religion". I couldn't figure what was wrong with our lovely Lutheran neighbors. My first clue something was off. 

[HarryPotterFan]

4 hours ago, sockinshoe said:

That happened to me last year at university! It was Easter Sunday, to boot, and my boyfriend had to restrain me or I would have lunged straight for the guy's jugular.

I think I dealt with that guy well, but part of me regrets not reporting him to my teacher (he was saying this crap during class). He needed to be informed that saying anti-Semitic shit isn't okay. Plus that teacher loved me and she was Jewish too, so that really wouldn't have gone so well for him.

[nst]

1 hour ago, Grimalkin said:

I am a lapsed adult convert Catholic and do not receive communion because my marriage technically is not valid (and I don't care).Catholics do believe Christ is present in the Eucharist,(which I cannot get my head around, another reason I don't participate) I don't know what you believe but think about it from that perspective. Holy Communion is sacred. If you don't believe that or feel that way it is insulting to insist on participating. If I were at a religious service for another religion I would be very mindful to respect their beliefs even if I did not agree or understand. 

(I may of missed the context in your comment, not attacking you)

I once heard a sermon from when I was in school.  Some scientists took the communion wafer and analyzed it under a microscope and it had living beating things in it. Like it was a whole person or something.

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

Presbyterian here! Although, I could have been a Methodist, because when my parents were choosing denominations, they flipped a coin to see which one they would go with. Mom was Presbyterian, Dad was Methodist. Anyways, I have never been so grateful to have been raised in my openly-accepting, liberal-minded Presbyterian church. I was even a youth deacon growing up. Anyways, I have always been proud of the congregation in my church, especially when the governing Presbytery voted to officially accept gay marriage within the church. It was national news because I think it was one of the first, big mainstream denominations coming out with this stance. I also grew up knowing that Catholics were Christians, too. Which is why it was so weird to me to come here and find out all the ridiculous crap fundies spew. I'm not under the belief that preaching down to people and lecturing them is Godly. I believe God is Love, and SHOWING love to people by kindness and giving makes you closer to Jesus.

[Bad Wolf]

We went to the Presbyterian church for many years. Lovely people. Unfortunately the pastor decided to move to the more evangelical movement, which said gays were going to hell. We moved across the street (literally) to the Episcopal church. Easy transition for me because I used to be C of E.

[Mothership]

From GS Cookies to religion:  Once again FJ proves just how boring the Dullards are.   There is no way they can sustain a series.  They can't even sustain our interest on a website dedicated to snarking about THEM!  

I love you FJ!    

[Denim Jumper]

3 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

Cradle Catholic here. Attended 12 years of Catholic schools. Married in Catholic ceremony. Four kids brought up as Catholic. Worked in a Catholic school.

I can assure you that the statues, windows, posters, etc. are ART, depicting the Blessed Mother, events of the life and ministry of Jesus, or saints whose special talents or ministries encourage us to use our talents to worship GOD. These are memory aids, nothing else, just as the beautifully illuminated Books of Hours of the Middle Ages, or the stained glass windows, helped the illiterate remember the Gospels they heard during Mass or other services.

Kids in school used Gospel stories to make their art pieces for  parent visitors, for instance. Prep for sacraments was chock full of Bible. We catholics may not carry our bibles around much, but neither do we bash people with them. We have our readings during the liturgical years which come straight from the Bible.

I do not understand why people think that Catholics don't use the Bible.

The first "exposure" to Catholicism I experienced was through former Catholics turned Baptists, and they are instrumental in spreading misinformation about the Church . I of course didn't know any different, but later on I happened upon an apologetics book that is dedicated to dispelling those misconceptions (and outright lies), as well as how those misconceptions came to be.