Joy-Anna turns 18th on Oct 28th

[sj3339sta]

I do see potential for Joy and several others to get out of gothardland.  I think the vehicle for this though is going to be scandal or legal issues for dear sweet daddy.  You can't tell me JB does not have some skeletons in the closet.  More things that happened under his roof besides joshgate 1.  If daddy falls, so will the rest of the family.  Let's hope that those skeletons show themselves sooner than later.

That said, there are some benefits to their lifestyle.  Living a debt free life is good.  Close ties to family are good.  It's the control, manipulation, isolation and such that make this lifestyle so damaging.  And the misrepresentation of scripture is damaging to the Christian faith since they are so public. 

[Bad Wolf]

JTTH and ALERT are expensive. Can't see JB forking out money for the younger Duggarlings. His chances of getting a free ride have been lessened by Joshgate. Who needs a tainted brand as an advertisement?

[RosyDaisy]

Regarding Jana, there was a commenter on the recent Recovering Grace article that suggested something about her. That's all I'm going to say. For details go read it for yourself. Just take the info with a giant rock of salt.

[socalrules]

Since JoyAnna is almost 18, have there been any posts about her graduating from high school or getting her GED? I figure not since I haven't seen anything about it on FJ but thought I would ask anyway.

[twinmama]

Honestly, I know a lot of people JD's age who rarely or never date. It's not everyone's cup of tea, or some people are prone to rejection, or what have you. He strikes me as a quiet, reserved kind of guy, maybe not the sort of go on a lot of dates under any circumstances. Plus, I really can't see John-David in a coffee shop. And I think if he were going to date, he'd want to be pretty discrete about it.

I think JD might be a Zach Bates type, where he exerts a little independence and rebels in a few small ways, but ultimately stays more or less in line with his family values.

I'll say I am also super quiet and shy and awkward around people (new people, or acquaintances, my awkwardness doesn't discriminate!). I wasn't even religious nevermind fundie and I had my first real boyfriend when I was 25. Met my husband the next year at 26.  So even if JD had left the Duggar fold, if he's super shy or awkward, or even just not into relationships, it's totally normal to not have had a relationship at that point. 

[singsingsing]

Regarding Jana, there was a commenter on the recent Recovering Grace article that suggested something about her. That's all I'm going to say. For details go read it for yourself. Just take the info with a giant rock of salt.

In the 'Negligence Lawsuit Filed' article? I can't see anything about Jana in any of the comments. Maybe it was deleted.

[imokit]

Regarding Jana, there was a commenter on the recent Recovering Grace article that suggested something about her. That's all I'm going to say. For details go read it for yourself. Just take the info with a giant rock of salt.

Link please 

[twinmama]

I disagree with speculation about gender identity of any of the Duggars....except the Boob and DQ.  Even the kidults still at home are most likely under very close scrutiny and speculation from us might make their home lives more difficult.....and get sent to Alert forever.

Now The Pecan Thief, on the other hand, is fair game!  Loved his apron!!

So when is it okay? When they're married and have already drug another innocent person into this mess? How does that help anybody?  I respect the rules but I disagree with them in regards to the kidults. It feels way too much like condoning their fear of homosexuality. 

IMO, we shouldn't really speculate on who is or isn't gay. It's a touchy subject for people in their position (fundie) and it's none of our business. Even David Waller. And by insisting that he is gay, which he may totally be or may not be, it's just reinforcing stereotypes that effeminate men must be gay. There is plenty of stuff to discuss about David Waller, whether or not he's gay doesn't even hit my list.

[pumpkie0]

Regarding Jana, there was a commenter on the recent Recovering Grace article that suggested something about her. That's all I'm going to say. For details go read it for yourself. Just take the info with a giant rock of salt.

Link please 

yep need some more direction which article

[Ellimenopy]

Regarding Jana, there was a commenter on the recent Recovering Grace article that suggested something about her. That's all I'm going to say. For details go read it for yourself. Just take the info with a giant rock of salt.

Link please 

yep need some more direction which article

I read all the comments from the most recent article and none mentioned Jana, although a few noted what a perverted turd Josh is.

[Charliemae]

My closing thoughts on sexuality speculation.  We shouldn't speculate on the sexuality of minors because we shouldn't.  I don't think that's hard to argue, it's icky and weird.  Kidults are confusing,they may be legal adults, but when are they actually 
"adults"?  I'm a rule follower and I have no problem sticking to the rules laid out here (although I had noticed the fluid nature of the rule when applied to the Arnt boys as well..).  I find it strange that TPTB here choose the fundie cultural standard for adulthood, ie. married or moved out.  Sometime like 21+ would have made more sense to me.  HOWEVER I'm over it.

 

On topic.  Joy has always fascinated me.  I have had such a soft spot for her since the early days.  To me she seems to have a spark and could probably break free eventually.  I just don't see her doing it now because it would hurt Jill so much.  Joy seems to really have a connection with her buddy-mom.  If she wanted to make a clean break I think she has enough outs to do it, Amy at the least.

[halcionne]

I never noticed speculation about an Arndt (which doesn't mean it didn't happen, of course). If you see something like that, you should report it. The mods don't see every post in every thread.

[RosyDaisy]

A commenter posted that Jana was Gothard's favorite.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

A commenter posted that Jana was Gothard's favorite.

From what I've read about him, she's not really his type....

[JenniferJuniper]

I disagree with speculation about gender identity of any of the Duggars....except the Boob and DQ.  Even the kidults still at home are most likely under very close scrutiny and speculation from us might make their home lives more difficult.....and get sent to Alert forever.

Now The Pecan Thief, on the other hand, is fair game!  Loved his apron!!

So when is it okay? When they're married and have already drug another innocent person into this mess? How does that help anybody?  I respect the rules but I disagree with them in regards to the kidults. It feels way too much like condoning their fear of homosexuality. 

IMO, we shouldn't really speculate on who is or isn't gay. It's a touchy subject for people in their position (fundie) and it's none of our business. Even David Waller. And by insisting that he is gay, which he may totally be or may not be, it's just reinforcing stereotypes that effeminate men must be gay. There is plenty of stuff to discuss about David Waller, whether or not he's gay doesn't even hit my list.

It's all about the hypocrisy and the irony.

More than half of the fundie men we follow out here come across as slightly effeminate to full-on girly (Davy striking a pose in his fruity apron, for example).

Yet they all believe strongly that men are superior to women, that being male gives them the right to control every aspect of the lives of their wives and children, including grown daughters, and that it's not possible to be born gay, bi or trans.  And further, that people who don't act, believe or think like they do are somehow stripping THEM of their rights.

Well, fuck 'em all.  If they are going to condemn others for being who they are, then we're going to chat about the things that don't seem to add up about them.

 

[RosyDaisy]

Ok, I can't find the comment about Jana on Recovering Grace, but I did see it somewhere. Sorry.

[nomoxian]

For a while I felt like Joy could be the one to break free, but she's been so JTTH'd and trained by this point that I don't think she will. And that's by design. You can see that JB and Michelle are already doing it to Hannie (who, like Joy, seems to have a lot of personality and doesn't seem to fit well into the fundie lifestyle or mindset). JB and Michelle have probably seen Joy's 18th birthday from a mile away and have likely done everything they can to make sure she won't even consider bolting. They did it to Jinger, they did it to Joy, and they'll definitely do it to Hannie and Jenni.

I'm really surprised the camps and other forms of indoctrination haven't had the opposite effect. Even just being forced to go to church once a week was enough to make me hate religion. Having to go to some 24/7 religious camp would have made me hate it even more!

[FloraDoraDolly]

It will be interesting to see what happens with Joy over the next several months. No, I don't see her leaving the day she turns 18 like Nate Phelps did. But she has never been part of the "four older girls" clique. As the lone girl in her age cohort, Joy had a different kind of childhood compared to her female siblings.

Also, she's one of the oldest Duggar kids whose primary caregiver was her buddy, not her parents. Remember how Joy cried when Jill was preparing for her wedding? That was not the cry of a little sister already-missing her big sister, that was the cry of a child losing her mother. Between this loss, the Josh scandal, and the end of the family's TV show, Joy has experienced a lot of upheaval in her life this past year. We don't know how it has affected her.

Joy's close relationship with Amy is something else to consider. I'm not saying Joy will bolt and move in with Amy. But thanks to Amy, Joy had a window to the outside world.

If Joy wants to leave but doesn't want a big confrontation with her parents, I think Crown College provides the nearest exit. Since Joseph is there, Jim Bob and Michelle might be more willing to let Joy go. Several Bates kids are there, and Joy seems close to Carlin in particular. The way Jim Bob thinks, he might let Joy go with his blessing if it means one member of his family gets a chance to be on TV again. Yes, Crown College is fundie and won't be a big chance for Joy in that respect. But at least she'll have her own life and her own friends there.

[quiversR4hunting]

It will be interesting to see what happens with Joy over the next several months. No, I don't see her leaving the day she turns 18 like Nate Phelps did. But she has never been part of the "four older girls" clique. As the lone girl in her age cohort, Joy had a different kind of childhood compared to her female siblings.

Also, she's one of the oldest Duggar kids whose primary caregiver was her buddy, not her parents. Remember how Joy cried when Jill was preparing for her wedding? That was not the cry of a little sister already-missing her big sister, that was the cry of a child losing her mother. Between this loss, the Josh scandal, and the end of the family's TV show, Joy has experienced a lot of upheaval in her life this past year. We don't know how it has affected her.

Joy's close relationship with Amy is something else to consider. I'm not saying Joy will bolt and move in with Amy. But thanks to Amy, Joy had a window to the outside world.

If Joy wants to leave but doesn't want a big confrontation with her parents, I think Crown College provides the nearest exit. Since Joseph is there, Jim Bob and Michelle might be more willing to let Joy go. Several Bates kids are there, and Joy seems close to Carlin in particular. The way Jim Bob thinks, he might let Joy go with his blessing if it means one member of his family gets a chance to be on TV again. Yes, Crown College is fundie and won't be a big chance for Joy in that respect. But at least she'll have her own life and her own friends there.

I am also curious on to what she will do (if anything) publicly. I think Crown would be good because it gets her out of the area and friends are there- as you said, it won't help her long term (as in getting a job like what people on FJ do when they go to college).

I wonder why the Duggars don't allow their kids to go to Ecclesia College. It is out their back door. (I get, but don't like, why they don't send their kids to NWACC- you know heathens, secular, etc). The degrees available at Ecclesia are almost the same as what is offered at Crown and it is accredited.

The majors: Biblical Studies; Business Administration (B.S.); Christian Counseling; Christian Leadership (Traditional and Online) Communication Ministries; Music Ministries; Sport Management (B.S.)

I am guessing comes down to "not the right kind of Christian." The founder of the college, Oren Paris, died in 2012 and the family had his memorial service at First Assembly of God Church in Springdale (per obit).

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

On the topic of church camp and whether or not it would indoctrinate people: I think it does work. I went to church camps when I was a teen and it was definitely different than having to sit through mass for 1-2 hours (depending on the week). Even when there was mass at the camps, it was different. I think, largely, it works because, as a teen, you're really looking to fit in. If all your friends/peers are doing something or behaving a certain way, you will too. So, if all your peers are at a camp and there are some people who are REALLY enthusiastic about it, you're going to be really enthusiastic about it. Conversely, very few people actually look forward to going to mass. So, you're not going to either.

Peer pressure is a huge influence on teens and can be used to manipulate them to do whatever it is you want them to.

 

As for how Joy will turn out, I really don't hold as much hope for her as I used to. When she was younger and allowed to be herself, I saw her as potentially breaking the mold. But, she's really working on fitting into that mold, and a lot earlier than I remember Jinger doing so. The only way I see her standing out from her sisters is in how stylish she isn't compared to them. But, I think that's largely because the 4 oldest girls have a drastically different body shape than she does. So, it may be hard for her to feel comfortable experimenting with fashion, and she probably can't borrow many of her sisters' clothes.

I, actually, fully expect that Joy is going to announce her courtship/engagement this year and will be married by the time she's 19, like Alyssa Bates. She may, like Alyssa, make small changes, like wearing jeans regularly. But, I wouldn't be surprised to find that she's 3 kids in 5-6 years from now.

[nastyhobbitses]

It will be interesting to see what happens with Joy over the next several months. No, I don't see her leaving the day she turns 18 like Nate Phelps did. But she has never been part of the "four older girls" clique. As the lone girl in her age cohort, Joy had a different kind of childhood compared to her female siblings.

Also, she's one of the oldest Duggar kids whose primary caregiver was her buddy, not her parents. Remember how Joy cried when Jill was preparing for her wedding? That was not the cry of a little sister already-missing her big sister, that was the cry of a child losing her mother. Between this loss, the Josh scandal, and the end of the family's TV show, Joy has experienced a lot of upheaval in her life this past year. We don't know how it has affected her.

Joy's close relationship with Amy is something else to consider. I'm not saying Joy will bolt and move in with Amy. But thanks to Amy, Joy had a window to the outside world.

If Joy wants to leave but doesn't want a big confrontation with her parents, I think Crown College provides the nearest exit. Since Joseph is there, Jim Bob and Michelle might be more willing to let Joy go. Several Bates kids are there, and Joy seems close to Carlin in particular. The way Jim Bob thinks, he might let Joy go with his blessing if it means one member of his family gets a chance to be on TV again. Yes, Crown College is fundie and won't be a big chance for Joy in that respect. But at least she'll have her own life and her own friends there.

I am also curious on to what she will do (if anything) publicly. I think Crown would be good because it gets her out of the area and friends are there- as you said, it won't help her long term (as in getting a job like what people on FJ do when they go to college).

I wonder why the Duggars don't allow their kids to go to Ecclesia College. It is out their back door. (I get, but don't like, why they don't send their kids to NWACC- you know heathens, secular, etc). The degrees available at Ecclesia are almost the same as what is offered at Crown and it is accredited.

The majors: Biblical Studies; Business Administration (B.S.); Christian Counseling; Christian Leadership (Traditional and Online) Communication Ministries; Music Ministries; Sport Management (B.S.)

I am guessing comes down to "not the right kind of Christian." The founder of the college, Oren Paris, died in 2012 and the family had his memorial service at First Assembly of God Church in Springdale (per obit).

Also, the campus culture at Ecclesia may not be to their liking. Some student life photos show girls wearing--contain yourselves--PANTS and SHORTS.

[sj3339sta]

For a while I felt like Joy could be the one to break free, but she's been so JTTH'd and trained by this point that I don't think she will. And that's by design. You can see that JB and Michelle are already doing it to Hannie (who, like Joy, seems to have a lot of personality and doesn't seem to fit well into the fundie lifestyle or mindset). JB and Michelle have probably seen Joy's 18th birthday from a mile away and have likely done everything they can to make sure she won't even consider bolting. They did it to Jinger, they did it to Joy, and they'll definitely do it to Hannie and Jenni.

I'm really surprised the camps and other forms of indoctrination haven't had the opposite effect. Even just being forced to go to church once a week was enough to make me hate religion. Having to go to some 24/7 religious camp would have made me hate it even more!

Their whole life though is like indoctrination camp.  They get it all day, every day.  And then they are isolated from and afraid of "the world."  That's unfortunate because Jesus teachings were very different from the life they seem to lead. 

[AngelGirl8811]

Joy from the earlier seasons of the show, when she was still allowed to be a tomboy and play with her brothers was spunky. The Joy who did talking heads with Josiah is different than the Joy who did them with Jana. Now that might be a part of growing up or being a Duggar it might be that her spirit is being crushed. She is kind of in an awkward place for the girls, she's not part of the lost girls, and she's not part of the older girls. She's very much in the middle, which is tough. I hope that whatever does happen for Joy is that she gets some peace, time away from the TTH and if it's a courtship that does that, then good for her. It's tough to say getting married is the best option but likely for her it is, as sad as that is. 

[sj3339sta]

Joy from the earlier seasons of the show, when she was still allowed to be a tomboy and play with her brothers was spunky. The Joy who did talking heads with Josiah is different than the Joy who did them with Jana. Now that might be a part of growing up or being a Duggar it might be that her spirit is being crushed. She is kind of in an awkward place for the girls, she's not part of the lost girls, and she's not part of the older girls. She's very much in the middle, which is tough. I hope that whatever does happen for Joy is that she gets some peace, time away from the TTH and if it's a courtship that does that, then good for her. It's tough to say getting married is the best option but likely for her it is, as sad as that is. 

Johanna is in the same position on the other end of all the boys.  My heart breaks for all these kids.  Getting your spirit beat out of you spiritually?  That is more damaging than physical beatings imo.  And I'm not convinced they were not/are not beaten physically too.  Not enough to leave marks, but enough and well beyond a simple spank.

[LovelyLuna]

Dear Joy,

Happy Birthday hon. You probably don’t know it, but your 18 and that means you can break free. The world has watched you grow from a spunky little spitfire to a beautiful young women. I hope that your future is long and bright and that you get to do whatever you heart desires. 

May the odds be ever in your favor

LL

 

Le sigh.... I had no idea how depressing it world be for my favorite Duggar to turn 18.