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Joy-Anna turns 18th on Oct 28th


countressrascal

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Statistically, the chances of there being at least one gay or bisexual Duggar kid are about 87%, assuming 10% of the population is, which may be a conservative estimate. .9^19 = .135 or so, equaling 13.5%. Subtract that from 100% (the LGBTQ and not, total), and get 86.5 something something percent. Plus, that figure may be higher for males due to the "older brother" correlation- that is, the more older brothers a boy has, the more likely he is to be gay. Not a certainty, but it has been studied and shown to up the odds.

this! And on top of that it is genetic to some extend. And with Michelle's sister being openly gay, chances may be even close to 100% that one of the 19 js is.

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Joy (and any of the kids) could reach out to Michelle's siblings (I think she has a few, but I'm sure she has at least the one sister we've discussed here a while back). I don't think the kids are especially close with them, but the Duggars have visited now and then over the years so there must be a phone number for them in the house that could be found by any of the kids wanting to call them. They aren't fundie and are family, so would be a good option for the kids thinking about making a break for it. 

But I doubt that's going to happen. Joy doesn't give me the impression that she's dissatisfied with her life enough to push her towards leaving. She strikes me as smothered and held back from doing as she pleases (all her spunk trying to stay contained under the facade of expected behaviour), but not worn down and drawn like Jana, nor as melancholy as Jinger. Joy is unhappy because she misses Jill, and maybe a bit frustrated, but not depressed. 

I think turning 18 will just mean a bit more liberty to travel to visit Jill to help out, like how Jana often visited Anna and Josh. 

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For a while I felt like Joy could be the one to break free, but she's been so JTTH'd and trained by this point that I don't think she will. And that's by design. You can see that JB and Michelle are already doing it to Hannie (who, like Joy, seems to have a lot of personality and doesn't seem to fit well into the fundie lifestyle or mindset). JB and Michelle have probably seen Joy's 18th birthday from a mile away and have likely done everything they can to make sure she won't even consider bolting. They did it to Jinger, they did it to Joy, and they'll definitely do it to Hannie and Jenni.

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Some will break away, get real jobs and live more mainstream. Finances will dictate such.

Unless JB manages to stumble upon easy money and is able to keep adults cloistered away. It's easier when they're only a handful of adults, but when the over 18 crowd grows to 15, AND money is an issue, AND he and Michelle are geriatric, there is no way this BS will continue.

 

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Some will break away, get real jobs and live more mainstream. Finances will dictate such.

Unless JB manages to stumble upon easy money and is able to keep adults cloistered away. It's easier when they're only a handful of adults, but when the over 18 crowd grows to 15, AND money is an issue, AND he and Michelle are geriatric, there is no way this BS will continue.

 

He'll just try pimp out more kids to TLC once Jill and Jessa grow stale. But I agree that it's not sustainable. I have a feeling that Josie might be the one to break free, and do so very dramatically. By the time she's old enough to do it, JB and Michelle will be too old and worn out to care what she does, Jana will likely be married off because at some point before that they needed another wedding special, and Josie will likely have been raised way more leniently than her sisters, simply due to neglect/being spoiled. And unlike Jana/Joy/Jinger, she doesn't have any obligations like buddies to make her stay.

And if we don't have that scenario, I could see some kids going the Alyssa Bates route: still fundie, but more OK with secular things like pants and tank tops. And social boundaries.

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Joy will leave.  But not now.   The Duggars are still bathing in the afterglow of their reality show fame.   Once the "girls'" specials are over and the vast majority of the world has forgotten they ever knew these freaks, JB and Michelle will give up and the second half of the family will be left to their own devices.  They'll be too old to care, and my guess is that Josh's recent behavior has badly rattled them.  As with any large family, some will fare well despite their insane upbringing and some will struggle.

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Some will break away, get real jobs and live more mainstream. Finances will dictate such.

Unless JB manages to stumble upon easy money and is able to keep adults cloistered away. It's easier when they're only a handful of adults, but when the over 18 crowd grows to 15, AND money is an issue, AND he and Michelle are geriatric, there is no way this BS will continue.

 

He'll just try pimp out more kids to TLC once Jill and Jessa grow stale. But I agree that it's not sustainable. I have a feeling that Josie might be the one to break free, and do so very dramatically. By the time she's old enough to do it, JB and Michelle will be too old and worn out to care what she does, Jana will likely be married off because at some point before that they needed another wedding special, and Josie will likely have been raised way more leniently than her sisters, simply due to neglect/being spoiled. And unlike Jana/Joy/Jinger, she doesn't have any obligations like buddies to make her stay.

And if we don't have that scenario, I could see some kids going the Alyssa Bates route: still fundie, but more OK with secular things like pants and tank tops. And social boundaries.

can you imagine Josie in 10 years - now that would be a site to see - what wilth JB 70 by then 

she will have boys in her room :D 

plus because she is the favorite - I don't think she will have to look after 

Iddy, Seewald kids or the M's 

Go Josie Go :D 

 

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Joy will leave.  But not now.   The Duggars are still bathing in the afterglow of their reality show fame.   Once the "girls'" specials are over and the vast majority of the world has forgotten they ever knew these freaks, JB and Michelle will give up and the second half of the family will be left to their own devices.  They'll be too old to care, and my guess is that Josh's recent behavior has badly rattled them.  As with any large family, some will fare well despite their insane upbringing and some will struggle.

Yeah, I really think we're just too impatient. They need some time to let these new realities stew. I think even some of the girls, Jessa and Jinger. maybe, might still leave. They've only been exposed to the negative feelings about their family for a short time (since they've gotten their own social media). It took me about a year and a half to break away from fundamentalism, and I had unfettered access to the internet. 

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The only thing we'll hear from Joy on her birthday is an instagram or FB post saying how grateful she is to grow to an adult with the help of her incredible, godly parents, who she aspires to emulate forever. 

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The only thing we'll hear from Joy on her birthday is an instagram or FB post saying how grateful she is to grow to an adult with the help of her incredible, godly parents, who she aspires to emulate forever. 

:my_sick: Gross! 

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Honestly, I know a lot of people JD's age who rarely or never date. It's not everyone's cup of tea, or some people are prone to rejection, or what have you. He strikes me as a quiet, reserved kind of guy, maybe not the sort of go on a lot of dates under any circumstances. Plus, I really can't see John-David in a coffee shop. And I think if he were going to date, he'd want to be pretty discrete about it.

I think JD might be a Zach Bates type, where he exerts a little independence and rebels in a few small ways, but ultimately stays more or less in line with his family values.

Yeah that's pretty much the way that I think of JD too. He won't ever come out against his family but he'll fight a few small battles and he'll win them. Plus Daddy owns his plane. It wouldn't be in his best interest to tell them to shove it. 

Agree, I don't see lack of dating/courtship or continuing singleness as a sign that JD isn't making honest inroads (or should it be "outroads"?) toward some independence from his family.   He's pretty quiet and I am pretty sure that he were dating, he would keep that under wraps anyway.

I think he's the type that fights the battles he can win and in that vein will not try to push the boundaries too far each time but over time it may add up.  In short, little steps and done quietly is the the best way to go versus some big, obvious escape attempt.

Sure the idea of some dramatic escape is appealing especially to us here at FJ but seriously, the smart way to go is to do it quietly and without pushing things too much.  We are talking about uber controlling parents here so anything overt is going to make them clamp down and go the tomato stake route.   Better to play along, earn trust and acquire little bits of freedom that way.  In short, make it work for you.   Take it from someone who went that route with her own controlling parents.

And in JD's case, he does have that plane.   I can't see him ruining that deal.

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It's something of a Catch-22. Joy (or any Duggarling) isn't likely to question her upbringing without outside, unchaperoned influences, by which, of course, I mean the internet !  But, until she is at least in a courting relationship, the internet will remain    inaccessible.  And, Jessa leaving?  Um. Having read her posts I'm going to go with no.  

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It's something of a Catch-22. Joy (or any Duggarling) isn't likely to question her upbringing without outside, unchaperoned influences, by which, of course, I mean the internet !  But, until she is at least in a courting relationship, the internet will remain    inaccessible.  And, Jessa leaving?  Um. Having read her posts I'm going to go with no.  

Jessa is pretty pickled in the koolaid at this point. Maybe it will change but it will take a lot I think for any of them to see that things outside of their parents' world aren't that bad. 

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I was just trolling IG and there is a photo of Joy with some random girl at I think a camp, Lake Swan, in Florida.  It doesn't look like fundy camp as the girls are wearing SHORTS, but it is a Christian camp. 

Yes I feel kind of dirty, I wasn't even looking for this and not sure how I got there.  

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@nst Jim Bob only just turned 50! :pb_lol:

True dat, but he'll be 60 by the time Precious Blessing turns sweet sixteen (and probably been kissed).

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Some will break away, get real jobs and live more mainstream. Finances will dictate such.

Unless JB manages to stumble upon easy money and is able to keep adults cloistered away. It's easier when they're only a handful of adults, but when the over 18 crowd grows to 15, AND money is an issue, AND he and Michelle are geriatric, there is no way this BS will continue.

 

He'll just try pimp out more kids to TLC once Jill and Jessa grow stale. But I agree that it's not sustainable. I have a feeling that Josie might be the one to break free, and do so very dramatically. By the time she's old enough to do it, JB and Michelle will be too old and worn out to care what she does, Jana will likely be married off because at some point before that they needed another wedding special, and Josie will likely have been raised way more leniently than her sisters, simply due to neglect/being spoiled. And unlike Jana/Joy/Jinger, she doesn't have any obligations like buddies to make her stay.

And if we don't have that scenario, I could see some kids going the Alyssa Bates route: still fundie, but more OK with secular things like pants and tank tops. And social boundaries.

can you imagine Josie in 10 years - now that would be a site to see - what wilth JB 70 by then 

she will have boys in her room :D 

plus because she is the favorite - I don't think she will have to look after 

Iddy, Seewald kids or the M's 

Go Josie Go :D 

 

I'm so curious to see what Precious Miracle Blessing Golden Child will be like at 16. I'm hoping that once she hits 18, she either has slowly manipulated her parents into letting her do pretty much whatever the hell she wants (because the Precious Miracle Blessing Child should get extra special privileges), or gets JD to fly her to New York one-way. I can imagine Josie being smart/cunning enough to go for the former. It's a long con, but with a lot of persistence and careful planning, she could probably slowly manipulate JB and Michelle into essentially setting her free.

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I was just trolling IG and there is a photo of Joy with some random girl at I think a camp, Lake Swan, in Florida.  It doesn't look like fundy camp as the girls are wearing SHORTS, but it is a Christian camp. 

Yes I feel kind of dirty, I wasn't even looking for this and not sure how I got there.  

She went to a prom. As in very nice normal dress (her and her friends) and it appears she goes to a Baptist church. It appears to be a regular southern Baptist church (but all you that are fluent in fundie will need to look for yourselves)..and why do people have their f/b pages open?! My point to this f/b stalk is to say- I hope Joy listened to this girl and her normal Christian life and that she could still be godly and go to prom and go to school and have a job...

I wonder how long Joy was there. Joy has always been my favorite. She has had a spark in her from the first day I saw her on TV. I really hope she subtly pushes the boundaries like what we suspect JD is doing.

 

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@nst Jim Bob only just turned 50! :pb_lol:

True dat, but he'll be 60 by the time Precious Blessing turns sweet sixteen (and probably been kissed).

so i added wrong 

big deal - it was in my head correctly :D 

 

I was just trolling IG and there is a photo of Joy with some random girl at I think a camp, Lake Swan, in Florida.  It doesn't look like fundy camp as the girls are wearing SHORTS, but it is a Christian camp. 

Yes I feel kind of dirty, I wasn't even looking for this and not sure how I got there.  

She went to a prom. As in very nice normal dress (her and her friends) and it appears she goes to a Baptist church. It appears to be a regular southern Baptist church (but all you that are fluent in fundie will need to look for yourselves)..and why do people have their f/b pages open?! My point to this f/b stalk is to say- I hope Joy listened to this girl and her normal Christian life and that she could still be godly and go to prom and go to school and have a job...

I wonder how long Joy was there. Joy has always been my favorite. She has had a spark in her from the first day I saw her on TV. I really hope she subtly pushes the boundaries like what we suspect JD is doing.

 

her spark is a good thing ala martha stewart

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Joy might eventually leave, but I don't think it will happen immediately when she is 18. It will take time for the ones who leave to be exposed to different ways of thinking and overcome the brainwashing. I won't be at all surprised if some of the kids leave after being married a few years and realizing that a life of being married to a stranger and popping out kids all the time isn't as fulfilling as Michelle made it seem. IOW, I won't be at all surprised if Jill or Jessa ends up leaving still. 

We already have plenty of evidence that Josh doesn't ACTUALLY believe in a lot of the stuff he was raised in - though it still remains to be seen if he continues to try to maintain the charade he does or admits to his true feelings when he gets out of that "treatment" thing he is doing. 

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And it wouldn't have worked for the girls to have a room for the older ones, with the little girls in another room, since they were sister-mums and were the ones getting up in the night to them.  Plus, the older girls would probably have felt the little ones would be vulnerable in their own room.  Although, the bedroom doors were apparently locked, so theoretically they were safe.  

I just cannot get over locking bedroom doors.  What if there was a fire?

This is true and we know that it's true.  I've always wondered when boys are moved to the boys room?  Like if Josie had been born with a penis, when would Jana have sent him to spend the night with the "big boys"?

 

Statistically, the chances of there being at least one gay or bisexual Duggar kid are about 87%, assuming 10% of the population is, which may be a conservative estimate. .9^19 = .135 or so, equaling 13.5%. Subtract that from 100% (the LGBTQ and not, total), and get 86.5 something something percent. Plus, that figure may be higher for males due to the "older brother" correlation- that is, the more older brothers a boy has, the more likely he is to be gay. Not a certainty, but it has been studied and shown to up the odds.

this! And on top of that it is genetic to some extend. And with Michelle's sister being openly gay, chances may be even close to 100% that one of the 19 js is.

 

STATISTICS ARE MEANINGLESS IN CLOSED POPULATIONS.

 

 If I go into a gay bar there are going to be way more homosexuals than statistically average.  Whole extended families can be, and are, straight.  Human Sexuality is not a math problem.  There are some much more interesting case studies that apply more directly to the mega families that we talk about.  For example Men with Older Brothers are More Likely to be Gay.  However with this particular mega family that brings us too close to speculating about minors. So I'll leave it at this, my pet peeve is when statistics are applied to individuals, it don't work. 

 

P.s. While I agree with the spirit of the FJ ban on speculating about minors sexuality, in practice it feels a lot like condoning the idea that homosexuality is a bad thing.  I always feel a little conflicted with myself.  

ETA: to be a little more clear, I don't think anyone should be speculating about minors.  It's the Kidults where I get a little conflicted. 

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And it wouldn't have worked for the girls to have a room for the older ones, with the little girls in another room, since they were sister-mums and were the ones getting up in the night to them.  Plus, the older girls would probably have felt the little ones would be vulnerable in their own room.  Although, the bedroom doors were apparently locked, so theoretically they were safe.  

I just cannot get over locking bedroom doors.  What if there was a fire?

This is true and we know that it's true.  I've always wondered when boys are moved to the boys room?  Like if Josie had been born with a penis, when would Jana have sent him to spend the night with the "big boys"?

 

Statistically, the chances of there being at least one gay or bisexual Duggar kid are about 87%, assuming 10% of the population is, which may be a conservative estimate. .9^19 = .135 or so, equaling 13.5%. Subtract that from 100% (the LGBTQ and not, total), and get 86.5 something something percent. Plus, that figure may be higher for males due to the "older brother" correlation- that is, the more older brothers a boy has, the more likely he is to be gay. Not a certainty, but it has been studied and shown to up the odds.

this! And on top of that it is genetic to some extend. And with Michelle's sister being openly gay, chances may be even close to 100% that one of the 19 js is.

 

STATISTICS ARE MEANINGLESS IN CLOSED POPULATIONS.

 

 If I go into a gay bar there are going to be way more homosexuals than statistically average.  Whole extended families can be, and are, straight.  Human Sexuality is not a math problem.  There are some much more interesting case studies that apply more directly to the mega families that we talk about.  For example Men with Older Brothers are More Likely to be Gay.  However with this particular mega family that brings us too close to speculating about minors. So I'll leave it at this, my pet peeve is when statistics are applied to individuals, it don't work. 

 

P.s. While I agree with the spirit of the FJ ban on speculating about minors sexuality, in practice it feels a lot like condoning the idea that homosexuality is a bad thing.  I always feel a little conflicted with myself.  

ETA: to be a little more clear, I don't think anyone should be speculating about minors.  It's the Kidults where I get a little conflicted. 

I also agree on the minors' ban, but I think with kidults, it goes too far. And I actually think that if one of those kidults were, and we thought that they were, it could protect them- it would be harder to obviously mistreat them without causing a huge backlash and scandal because "you're hurting J'Kid because he or she is gay, right?" It would lead to more scrutiny, too, of any "counseling" received or anywhere a gay kid might be sent.

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I disagree with speculation about gender identity of any of the Duggars....except the Boob and DQ.  Even the kidults still at home are most likely under very close scrutiny and speculation from us might make their home lives more difficult.....and get sent to Alert forever.

Now The Pecan Thief, on the other hand, is fair game!  Loved his apron!!

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Joy might eventually leave, but I don't think it will happen immediately when she is 18. It will take time for the ones who leave to be exposed to different ways of thinking and overcome the brainwashing. I won't be at all surprised if some of the kids leave after being married a few years and realizing that a life of being married to a stranger and popping out kids all the time isn't as fulfilling as Michelle made it seem. IOW, I won't be at all surprised if Jill or Jessa ends up leaving still. 

We already have plenty of evidence that Josh doesn't ACTUALLY believe in a lot of the stuff he was raised in - though it still remains to be seen if he continues to try to maintain the charade he does or admits to his true feelings when he gets out of that "treatment" thing he is doing. 

I do wonder how many people who are raised by wacko parents, living in deep poverty, not allowed to think or or do what they want, have a moment of privacy, share beds, clothes, the occasional toy, being crowded into homes too small for a family of that size, or even 1/2 the size they are, keep that lifestyle? Or if leaving it is more the norm than the exception.   

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I agree with not speculating about the sexuality of anyone who is still living under the control of fundie parents. The parents MIGHT be reading what we say here and they may decide to punish or torment anyone who is perceived as being gay. I would not want one of these poor kids to end up committing suicide because they are being haunted by rumors of being gay.  

The other issue is that we truly can't tell just by looking at someone's mannerisms or behavior if they are in fact gay when they have been raised completely isolated from gay culture and are being pressured to act straight. For all we know, it may turn out in 10 years that one of the married adult kids is in fact gay/lesbian and there was never any outward sign of it. Personally, I DEFINITELY think there is at least one gay Duggar kid (and quite likely more than one), but I have no idea who it is. I hope that eventually the gay Duggar(s) have the courage to be honest about who they are. 

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