All Things Dillard - Part 6

[abbylabby1]

At the time Jill was studying midwifery, she seemed excited about learning and focused on what she was doing. I think now she just seems stuck at one level so when we see her talking or read what she writes, she seems to be just going through the motions. She hasn't grown intellectually--something most of us expect from our kids. Of course, she has fulfilled the role expected by her family--wife and mother--not there's anything wrong with being a wife and mother. You can still grow as a person and be a wife and mother. It just seems like she is following Derick around now.

[physicalscience]

(I grew up Catholic. This constant "let me tell you about Jesus and why you are a bad person and need him" while people are in vulnerable situations (or not) is so different for me...anyway)

Hoooold the phone here. Let's not pretend the Catholic church is free from this type of behavior. Many nurses trained in India are Catholic, which seemed extremely odd to me. Until I realized, it's because Catholic churches opened the training centers. Investing resources into training nurses is important and I'm happy the church is there to do so, however, I don't think it's coincidence that religious conversion happens.

As far as Jill's smarts, she just seems immature to me. I'm fairly sure I acted JUST like her circa 13 years old. Giggly, talkative when I was nervous, when given something new (minute rice) I'd act silly and overplay the difficulty to come off as "cute" etc. This could be something we saw played up on TV, because all the girls were hyper aware that they were being filmed. Remember not opening the door for little Jackson collecting laundry because they weren't finished with their make up? I acted ESPECIALLY flighty, goofy and smiley when I had attention on me back then. Hopefully, this is something she will eventually grow out of.

[KYangel]

I don't think Jill is "slow". I think she is extremely undereducated, with little knowledge of the outside world. Most eight year-olds have received a better education than Jill. The fact she could not do the minute rice math is not surprising. She received a substandard education from parents who look down on education. I don't think James is slow, if anything he seems to be bright and curious, yet he was learning his multiplication tables at 13.

After years of watching the show, I never saw any of the kids say anything particularly intelligent or show that they had developed critical thinking skills. Jill may very well be capable of passing the midwives exam with proper education and training. I just do not believe she has been given that opportunity.

Sadly in some cases I observe the Duggar children's education does appear to be lacking, as compared to even to most general public education in many areas. I don't perceive it to be a "home-school" issue, personally I know several individuals who've been homeschooled by their parent (who has no secondary education) that have received excellent and quite possibly stronger than "public school" standards in education learning opportunities. But it takes a combination of a committed parent willing to invest time to learn the material the self and then teach the material to their children. It also takes a reasonable amount of aptitude for learning (ability) on the parent's and child part as well.

Michelle has often seemed a bit dingy, and sometimes even not too bright. I've tried to reason that it was a result of her own upbringing/past education, but she may lack the ability to learn the subject, teach the subject, or teach well in general, many people are not natural-born teachers. But then again, doesn't she often utilize her elder children as teachers for the younger? They are possibly not equipped to handle this challenge educationally or in maturity. Not to mention they simply may just resent the fact that they are forced to do her work.

[Becket70]

I'm typing this from memory, because I can't stand Jill's OR Derick's writing, so I really don't want to go through their blog now, but here goes:

When they left Arkansas two months ago, they went to El Salvador for about a month, maybe a little less. This seems to have been with a larger group from SOS ministries. They took a couple of pictures with brown children, left the compound only with armed guards and preached at said armed guards (who had no way to escape) in English. Presumably, they realized that no one understands them and they need to learn Spanish before they can convert the Catholics heathens. At this point, they moved to Guatemala and started attending a legitimate language school (and pestering their teachers about finding Jesus). Of course, they went home to film their wonderful appearance on TLC's child sexual abuse special, and also to attend Michael Bates' wedding. They also subsequently brought Joy Anna and Carlin Bates with them for some sight-seeing/child-caring services. Then, less than three weeks later, they came back for cousin Amy's wedding and are apparently planning on staying here for an entire month. Allegedly, they are planning on going back to South America after a month (back to language school, that is, not to their so-called ministry). We'll see if that ever happens. Does that sound about right?

So they are back for a month? Soon after that it will be Thanksgiving. Will they come back for that? Then Christmas. Do they come back for that? What was with all the tears when they said their farewells to the family before embarking on their journey? From all the drama in the video, I would have assumed they would not see each other for at least a year.

[artdecades]

Sadly in some cases I observe the Duggar children's education does appear to be lacking, as compared to even to most general public education in many areas. I don't perceive it to be a "home-school" issue, personally I know several individuals who've been homeschooled by their parent (who has no secondary education) that have received excellent and quite possibly stronger than "public school" standards in education learning opportunities. But it takes a combination of a committed parent willing to invest time to learn the material the self and then teach the material to their children. It also takes a reasonable amount of aptitude for learning (ability) on the parent's and child part as well.

Michelle has often seemed a bit dingy, and sometimes even not too bright. I've tried to reason that it was a result of her own upbringing/past education, but she may lack the ability to learn the subject, teach the subject, or teach well in general, many people are not natural-born teachers. But then again, doesn't she often utilize her elder children as teachers for the younger? They are possibly not equipped to handle this challenge educationally or in maturity. Not to mention they simply may just resent the fact that they are forced to do her work.

Somehow these conversations here always turn into homeschool vs public school (as if those are even the only options). It distracts from the point. The Duggars don't homeschool, they fundie homeschool. It's and entirely different beast. At this point we have all seen the fundie textbooks that say slaves were happy because they found Jesus and that no one in Africa can read or write.

If MEchelle and Boob cared about academics, they wouldn't have chosen ATI. ATI is anti intellectual and anti learning. It focuses on demeanor and how you do your hair and shit like that.

[ClaraOswin]

In 19 kids...the odds are at least once or two could have some sort of learning disability or whatever. I mean...maybe none have. Who knows. The problem is...if any of them did/do...it's not like Michelle would do anything to help them. She would continue with her one style of 'teaching.' To me, that is messed up. One thing that's great about home schooling if done right is that it would be easier for a parent to tailor things to the child and how they need to learn. But we know Michelle could never be bothered to do that. It pisses me off.

If any of her kids would ever need extra help or speech therapy or something...they'd never do it. It's ridiculous and irresponsible, in my opinion.

Of course, it's not just a Michelle thing or a fundie thing. I've known "regular" people who ignore when their children need extra help. It pisses me off.

[2manyKidzzz]

And Jilly and Dilly will probably come back for JessanBin's baby when it is born.

I'm thinkin....

[gemma]

So they are back for a month? Soon after that it will be Thanksgiving. Will they come back for that? Then Christmas. Do they come back for that? What was with all the tears when they said their farewells to the family before embarking on their journey? From all the drama in the video, I would have assumed they would not see each other for at least a year.

I would bet this is exactly what they are going to end up doing. When they come back permanently they can claim huge success even if they save a single soul. But, who knows, by then they may have faded into into obscurity altogether.

[lascuba]

So they are back for a month? Soon after that it will be Thanksgiving. Will they come back for that? Then Christmas. Do they come back for that? What was with all the tears when they said their farewells to the family before embarking on their journey? From all the drama in the video, I would have assumed they would not see each other for at least a year.

That's the part that keeps blowing my mind. They were all emotional and crying when they knew she'd be back in a month? WTF is wrong with them?

[nastyhobbitses]

I just would like to clarify than when i earlier said that i think jill is slow, i wanted to say that i just think she is dumb as fuck, although not mentally challenged, and her enviroment just doesn't help. I was not trying to make a diagnosis as i am not medical professional with contact with her. Just a disclaimer before we start losing our shits again

Yeah, Jill has always struck me as not-terribly-bright, not mentally challenged. And if she has a learning disability, it's none of our damn business. She's a combination of uneducated/isolated from peers and just not being the quickest tractor on the farm. Nothing's wrong with not being the quickest tractor on the farm; not everyone can be Einstein, but maybe she'd be a quicker tractor if she'd gotten a proper education. Though then again, I went to a very well-ranked public high school with lots of kids who went on to Ivy League schools, and I had classmates who were dumb as posts. Nothing was clinically wrong with them, they were just dumb.

[Rescinded and Mended]

Was it truly a Minute Rice box she struggled with? If so, they do have chart that can be confusing if you're rushing only because most on-the-box instruction are less complicated. Yes, it i something a child would learn in early elementary school, but she probably only ever saw something like that one time considering the minimal education. Once I mixed up the amount measurements. What episode was this in? I'd like to see what she did. I've seen mastered degreed professionals not able to make Kraft mac & cheese.

I tend to buy and cook the Uncle Ben's rice packets on the stove because it's the only type of rice I can get to come out right. :embarrassed: I've used cookers and tried making the long grain, but it either comes out burned or not cooked enough. I don't know what my issue is.

However, I do love rice pudding, and my homemade recipe for that always comes out perfectly. When life hands me burned or undercooked rice, I make rice pudding. :mrgreen:

[lascuba]

The rice thing was even more stupid than it sounds, because Jill's issue wasn't that she couldn't figure out how to make it, but that she was trying to adjust the instruction to make enough for 3 people. The thought didn't even cross her little mind that she could just double the instructions for two and have some leftovers.

Yeah, I don't think she has any kind of learning disabilities, but she is stupid and very much not a thinker. And I don't think she'd be all that different with a real education under her belt. She's the type of person who can follow instructions if she has to and think what she's told to think, but if there's nothing in the instruction manual to address the particular issue she's confronted with, she'd have no idea what to do.

[EmCatlyn]

Jill likely has a poor vocabulary because she was never allowed to read anything but the bible, wisdom booklets, and before you meet prince charming.

.

I agree with most of your message, but I singled out this line to point out that reading the Bible can be great for developing reading and writing skills - IF the Bible is read thoughtfully and with attention to the language. Many of the great writers and thinkers of the 15th through 19th century came from households where there were few (or no) books except the Bible. A lot of children in past generations learned to read and write with the Bible as the main textbook. And writers as diverse as Ruskin (a Victorian art and culture critic) and Pearl Buck (20th century author, The Good Earth etc.) and Martin Luther King all show in their writing style the evidence of much Bible reading.

The problem with the Duggars and people like that is that they don't really read the Bible. They read a set of words and, without analyzing, they apply interpretations that fit with their world view (in this case, as you point out, Gothard's interpretations).

The poetic richness of the KJV, the fascinating complexity of the history of the Jewish people told in the OT, the possibility of different interpretation of specific passages, the challenge of trying to understand apparent (or real) contradictions in the texts ... The Duggars could, but clearly don't, engage with any of that.

A person of average ability who wasn't discouraged and punished for learning "outside the [Gothard] box" could learn a lot from just the Bible.

But the Duggar world doesn't encourage real learning, and that, more than the limited texts, is the real problem

:(

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

Somehow these conversations here always turn into homeschool vs public school (as if those are even the only options). It distracts from the point. The Duggars don't homeschool, they fundie homeschool. It's and entirely different beast. At this point we have all seen the fundie textbooks that say slaves were happy because they found Jesus and that no one in Africa can read or write.

If MEchelle and Boob cared about academics, they wouldn't have chosen ATI. ATI is anti intellectual and anti learning. It focuses on demeanor and how you do your hair and shit like that.

I'm a (at least semi-) fundie homeschooler and I approve this message.

[JMO]

Did anyone else read that jill is finishing her certification to be a midwife? I'm seriously concerned. I'm afraid she's going to attempt to deliver babies in El Salvador

[missegeno]

Snip

The poetic richness of the KJV, the fascinating complexity of the history of the Jewish people told in the OT, the possibility of different interpretation of specific passages, the challenge of trying to understand apparent (or real) contradictions in the texts ... The Duggars could, but clearly don't, engage with any of that.

A person of average ability who wasn't discouraged and punished for learning "outside the [Gothard] box" could learn a lot from just the Bible.

But the Duggar world doesn't encourage real learning, and that, more than the limited texts, is the real problem

:(

Agreed! I read the bible for the first time as an adult in college and I was amazed by the richness and flexibility of it. Listening to bible thumping fundies can make it seem like a cut and dry set of rules, but that's not from the Bible itself. That's from power hungry people insisting their personal interpretation is the only valid option.

[missegeno]

Used differently, the bible offers a lot of opportunity for critical thought.

(Sorry for the two posts in a row. I tried to find the edit button in tapatalk, but I can't seem to find it anywhere)

[ClaraOswin]

People here always talk about the Jill with the rice thing so I decided to watch it since I couldn't remember it at all. The way people talked, I thought she was trying to make 3 cups but since the box didn't give instructions, she was confused. But that is NOT what I saw at all. She says that the recipe doesn't say how much it needs (for the dal bhat.) So she asks Jana how much she thinks they will eat. Both are unsure how much to make for just a couple people. But that was pretty much it. So I will give her a pass on this. I always make food for 2-3 people. So if I suddenly had to make food for 20, yeah...I'd be confused on how much to make too.

[HermioneSparrow]

I'm scared of everybody trying to diagnose Jill of a learning disability based on an incident who doesn't really show any signs of a disability, in fact, I'm a teacher and I see nothing wrong with Jill. She can't be diagnosed just watching a few minutes of her life... I actually think she's bright, just stunted. This is like everybody saying Josh is a pedophile... Let's not play experts on psychology please.

[Librul]

I have always regarded Jill as ignorant, uneducated, uninformed and ill-prepared, not learning disabled, but who knows? She is, IMO, completely ignorant, so whether that is from environment or genetics, doesn't matter to me.

The thought of her helping women deliver babies is shudder-making. I cannot imagine the risk factors present if she is the only "medical" person present to a laboring mother. She is ignorant, therefore she is dangerous.

[Alexa]

Did anyone else read that jill is finishing her certification to be a midwife? I'm seriously concerned. I'm afraid she's going to attempt to deliver babies in El Salvador

That's what really worries me too, especially after how irresponsible she was during her own birth.

[Srilaura]

In 14 kids pt 1 there are nine boys and five girls. Jill says she hopes next baby is a girl but ok if boy bc then would "be ten boys and five girls, so half and half". Attempts to correct herself but can't figure it out. She was 13.

[SassyPants]

In 14 kids pt 1 there are nine boys and five girls. Jill says she hopes next baby is a girl but ok if boy bc then would "be ten boys and five girls, so half and half". Attempts to correct herself but can't figure it out. She was 13.

There was also a photo of Jill from earlier this year before Izzy was born where Jill is pictured at a class- it turns out that Jill is quoted that she was attending her biannual Neonatal Resuscitation class- I was an Nicu nurse for 35 years, and these certifications are good for 2 years, so biennial classes are taken. No one attends classes twice a year for NRP certification.

[ljohnson2006]

Must be nice for Jill and Derrick to leave the "Mission" whenever they feel like it. I wonder what they're really doing there. Besides spending donation money on God knows what. Maybe Bin should go there too. His ministry is about as fake as theirs.

[ljohnson2006]

If Jill isn't a midwife now, she'll never be one. She's been training to do this, since Josie was a baby. How long does it take? That's a Duggar F-U to show that the girls can do more than pop out babies.