Michael Bates Brandon Keilen wedding

[CaptainFunderpants]

I grew up in Oklahoma and all of my Protestant sorority sisters--no matter how much or how little money the parents had-- had church weddings with the reception in the church hall. Receptions typically included punch, (non-alcoholic) brides cake, grooms cake (chocolate) nuts, mints and maybe finger sandwiches or veggie tray. No dancing, no full meal and over in an hour or two. This was not considered at all tacky, cheap or "gift grab". Just what people expected and did. A full dinner dance would have been seen as ostentatious and unnecessary.

When I moved away, I was exposed to the all night dinner dance reception.

RE: Brandon. He made some very romantic gifts for Michael during courtship and engagement. I think he loves her, just not into the limelight.

I think what most people find offensive in regard to what the Duggars and Bates do, is that they spend so much money on the dress and their wedding registries are so extravagant and then their wedding itself is really cheap. It just seems in really poor taste to have a wedding registry be worth more than your entire wedding.

I'm totally fine with "come see us say 'I do' have cake and punch and then go. For large, busy families it's pretty ideal. I also hate standing around with people, so... Much easier. But if that's the style you're going to do, then it seems like your wedding registry should also show a fair bit of simplicity. Like, nothing over $100 and have the average price be about $25.

If I have such a huge wedding that I won't even get to shake hands with everyone, you bet I'm gonna feel guilty asking them to buy me much of anything. It just seems impolite. They're attending to celebrate with me and yet I invited so many people that I can't even celebrate with them? Ick.

The other side is the incredibly intimate ceremony of 40 or 50 people and a full dinner. To me that makes much more sense for a bit of extravagance because the bride and groom will actually get a chance to speak with every single guest -the wedding dress cost can be a bit more, the registry can be a bit nicer, because you're getting that one-on-one interaction with the couple on their special day.

I get that it would be almost impossible for a fundie to have a 40 to 50 person wedding, then... scale down your registry. Considering if you can't get it below 200 people, think of how many weddings they're gonna have to attend in any given year.

IDK, just my two cents.

Phoebe -I think your wedding sounds fine. As Monica pointed out -you'll be able to speak with all of your guests; that's huge. As long as you're not super gift grabby, especially considering you're already living together and opted to have a child (a whimsical, huge, and very extravagant cost) it's fine.

[nelliebelle1197]

If you are having 500 guests, then yeah, kinda tacky! But a small wedding, of course not. Apparently no one noticed my point that it is tacky and an obvious gift grab when you spend $2 per guest so you can invite an entire concert hall full of people, many of whom like the Duggars are driving 10 hours or more to attend.

Pheobe, I think your wedding will be lovely and not chintzy. There are more ways of showing hospitality than feeding people.

Will you be able to speak to your guests? With 50-75 guests, I imagine you'll not only be able to say hello to everyone, but most likely have conversations with nearly all your guests. Spending time with your guests is a fantastic form of hospitality.

Are you inviting people you don't know or putting your registry out on the internet for people who don't know you (but are your "fans") to buy you gifts? Or passing a collection plate to pay for your honeymoon? My guess is no. The people you're inviting are ones you love and care for, and know and support your little family. Including those community members is a form of hospitality.

I wish you a very happy wedding!

[anjulibai]

I'm not a fan of her dress and I think she could have done more with her hair. But it's her wedding, so she I am sure she picked what she was happy with.

[Tiny Bubbles]

I had a small, unfashionable (for my circle at the time) wedding. Pretty much just immediate family, buffet (cooked by my mom!) and champagne back at my parents' house after the personalized ceremony (one of us was related to the officiant).

We went this route because we were extremely poor and my parents said they would give us a choice: they would throw a wedding spending what they had spent on my sister's elegant wedding, or we could take the same in cash.

We went for the cash. We bought basic furniture to get started with (we weren't living together) and between that and some wedding gifts we were good to go.

Friends gifted us with a week at their nearby cottage for a honeymoon.

It was very modest but heartfelt wedding about which I've never had any regrets. It cost us nothing except the cost of our clothes and we were able to start our life together with no debt whatsoever. We love to entertain and have held about a million parties since, which more than makes up for the teeny wedding.

Ps, is it weird that Michelle, Joy and Jinger Duggar all attended the wedding in their travel clothes?

[nokidsmom]

I'm in NJ too but grew up in metro NY. Weddings in my area are typically very expensive affairs (some church some not) and in some cultures, the guests are supposed to pay for it (the wedding gift is supposed to be a cash gift of at least the cost of your plate. Some invitations even go as far as stating how much per plate this wedding will cost. Not growing up this way, I find this to be insane.)

With what some weddings cost in the area, you could buy a brand new Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc. Personally I find that insane, but that's just me. There's a huge keeping up with the Joneses mentality here.

I have a (former) friend who is moving Duggar speed on her new relationship. She's already talking marriage after 6 weeks together. Her bridal party (if she has any friends left and if he does not dump her) will be footing bills of at least $5000 for the honor of standing next to her on her big day. This will include an ugly dress (she can't be upstaged), shoes, hair/nails/makeup, multiple showers, an elaborate bachelorette party including limo ride (or a destination one), and a cash gift to cover the plate.

To be honest, I'd rather see the church wedding with the cake in the church reception hall than something elaborate that the couple is cashing out a 401K to pay for.

Back when Mr. No and I got married, weddings ranged from the big expensive affairs that stretched into the night to small simple afternoon weddings, but at all times was there a meal following the wedding. Ours was considered a medium sized affair with about 120 guests. I think my folks spent around $4K, we had the reception at a small but classy venue and did a lot of money saving stuff. By the time my sisters got married, it was the thing to have what I called "the Broadway extravangza" and both sisters blew major bucks on their weddings figuring on the cash gifts to offset wedding costs. When I heard what my youngest sister spent on her wedding, I thought it was insane too.

I told Mr. No that if we were getting married today we would probably do it at the courthouse and throw a nice small party for immediate family afterward.

[Phoebe]

If you are having 500 guests, then yeah, kinda tacky! But a small wedding, of course not. Apparently no one noticed my point that it is tacky and an obvious gift grab when you spend $2 per guest so you can invite an entire concert hall full of people, many of whom like the Duggars are driving 10 hours or more to attend.

Shoot, we don't even plan on having a wedding registry -- we both owned houses before moving in together and we have more than enough stuff. We're not planning a honeymoon either, just a week off work to laze around the house and love on our kiddo. In a year or so, we might do a honeymoon at Colonial Williamsburg or Niagara Falls, but neither of us are extravagant people. And the 50-75 people will be family and friends. :-)

[Rajah061014]

Per Miss Manners, one of the foremost experts on wedding etiquette, the only requirement is that a reception feature food appropriate for the time of day. So a wedding taking place at lunch time or dinner time would require a full meal. With anyother time, like their mid-afternoon wedding yesterday, a cake and punch reception is perfectly acceptable. Said style of reception is fairly common in many parts of the South and Midwest, albeit not all. Generally, the number of people you invite does not dictate the formality of the wedding, so there's nothing wrong etiquette wise with having a cake and punch reception with 1000 guests.

[sockinshoe]

In my family, it is typical to have a small civil ceremony with just immediate family not too long after getting engaged and then throwing a big fun party for extended family and friends during the following summer (when almost everyone can make it). Often these parties are coupled with a religious ceremony or a vow renewal. It's great because it allows the couple time to plan and save money, and often family members chip in (baking cakes, paying vendors, providing the music) to make it easier. The official wedding is often about the couple, and the party gives an opportunity to share that love and happiness with everyone.

The party is always terrific and usually quite homemade in my family. We just found out that one of my cousins engaged a wedding planner and my grandmother/aunties are scratching there heads. I also hear some cousins are feeling left out because providing the food/cake/entertainment/decorations was always their way to chip in and show their love of the couple. Also, this move raises the overall cost of the wedding and, as a result, puts pressure on people to buy more expensive gifts. Registries are an absolute faux-pas in my family. You can drop hints or reply honestly if asked what you want, but to ask for things is seen as terribly gauche.

[Growelly]

I keep hearing that this type of wedding is common in the Midwest... I'm from the Midwest and no. I've never even heard of a wedding like this until FJ and the Duggar specials (yup, I'm sheltered).

Rather than it being a regional thing, it seems to be more of a type of religion thing. My area is heavily Catholic, so afternoon wedding, sit down or buffet dinner, dancing and lots of alcohol... Usually a keg or two plus soda and a cash bar.

And it can totally be done on the cheap here. When I got married 10+ years ago we had a reception at a supper club for about 200 people for under $5000. Of course, I realize that's harder today and for 1000 people.

[NeverQuivered]

Okay, now I'm worried. Fiance of Awesome and I are planning a wedding for next September after we have our baby. Because of the pregnancy, our already-small budget became even tighter. We have an informal hors d'oeuvres and dessert reception planned with no alcohol served as I'll still be breastfeeding and it saves a ton of money on booze, bartender, and security. With all this talk of cake-and-punch receptions being poor hospitality, am I being a cheapskate by going this route? Will there be complaints at the lack of sit down dinner or buffet as being too chintzy for words?

I mean, we're spending less than $5,000 for a wedding with 50-75 guests (Wal-Mart makes very pretty wedding cakes!) but now I'm worried that we'll be seen as poor/rude/cheap hosts. I'm in the North Central Midwest and this is a secular wedding, FWIW.

My hubs and I did the fancy wedding and it was stressful. One year later, we renewed our vows on the beach in maui and it was amazingly wonderful. My fave weddings to go to now are the simple ones. My bro and his wife married in Vegas last year then did a backyard reception with fried chicken and potato salad. There was a dj, a keg of beer and some boxed wine and we had a blast. I think the criticism comes from these fundie families inviting 1000 of their closest friends and making it a gift grab and not even feeding them.

[Palimpsest]

Phoebe, I think your wedding plans sounds lovely. Congratulations on the new babe and for your upcoming marriage.

I think it is far ruder for wedding guests to complain about the hospitality offered than to have the wedding you can afford. The people you are inviting are presumably close enough to you to understand your limited budget, and at least love you enough to attend!

I hate to think what FJ would have thought about my wedding. I got married in a church, and had the afternoon reception for 60 in the back garden of the house I was living in at the time. It was a budget wedding, with a friend of mine doing the catering - finger food and yummy little sandwiches. We covered the costs, but the hard work was her gift to us. The "cake" was a croquembouche (pile of profiteroles/mini eclairs) and made by another friend as her gift. My parents paid for white wine, but most people drank tea or lemonade because there was a lot of wine left over.

We heard no complaints, although my housemates apparently got plastered on the left-over wine after all the guests left at about 5:30 p.m. The afternoon reception was the norm for that place and time. The garden party reception was a bit unusual -- but everyone knew Mr. P. and I were broke and my parents were not swimming in money (retired missionaries). I'm profoundly glad it didn't rain!

BTW, the "best" wedding I ever went to (other than my own) was held here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lullington_Church

Only 12 people were invited (the church only holds 20) and we had fish and chips and beer at a pub afterwards. The George in Alfriston? I forget.

Back to Fundies: The Bateses usually and the Kellers (Pris and Anna) serve real food at their weddings, IIRC. I justify snark on the Duggar weddings because of the incredibly extravagant wedding registries - not just the meager food for thousands of guests. YMMV.

And for people who have cake, nuts and punch receptions only, they are perfectly acceptable and I've been to a couple. Just don't forget the mints! Mints are required, although I don't know why. :lol:

[19 cats and counting]

I don't think this wedding was very gift grabby. I saw their Target registry and found it to be very reasonable for a couple just starting out. It's nothing compared to other famous fundie registries I've seen (unless there's another that I was unaware of). No iPads, no 50 towels, no Kate Spade, etc.

I wasn't following the Bates when Erin, Zach, and Alyssa got married so I have no idea what their registries were like.

I've been to weddings that the couple lived together before marriage and used their registry to upgrade all their household goods to high-end ones when there's nothing wrong with the old ones. If I can't afford a Kitchen Aid for myself, there's no way I'm going to gift one to someone else (I might go in on it with someone). Keep in mind these expensive registries were just for the shower and a cash gift was also expected at the wedding.

[danvillebelle]

Not a fan of Michaela's dress, to me it definitely looks like a strapless dress with something or other sewn to the top. Messy.

I grew up in Nashville, TN, lived in IN for 10 years and now TX for 10 years. With *one* exception, I have never been to any other kind of wedding other than the afternoon reception on the church grounds/cake/punch/finger foods. Sometimes it was done far more elegantly than others, and a couple of times there was wine (Orthodox), but still basically the same thing. The exception was when my best friend from high school got married; her parents' home sits on a hill and their yard ends on a cliff edge with a spectacular view. She had her reception in their yard, with a tent that had a dance floor, and tables/chairs all over the yard. There was an open bar and dinner was served.

I married in 1992. We did what we could afford and was also our style. We had about 75-80 guests; the only ones who traveled were my in-laws, a couple of my family members and 2 members of the wedding party. We had wedding cake, groom's cake, punch, a huge fresh fruit and cheese platter and strawberries with melted chocolate in the church fellowship hall. The only flowers were one huge, beautiful all white arrangement on the altar table up front (Presbyterian church). I come from a musical family and the music was the most important part to us, so the lion's share of the budget went there. There was 30 minutes of classical music before the ceremony, all carefully chosen by me. We hired the best organist and trumpet player in town (both friends of my mom's) and a personal friend from church with an amazing voice sang two solos, and that was his gift to us (priceless). Basically all mine and my parents' friends are musicians or involved in music in some way or another so we WERE catering to our guests in a way, KWIM? Our 23rd anniversary was last week and old friends still come up to my mom every August and tell my mom they remember our wedding and that it was one of the most memorable they ever attended. I think the grand total spent was about 3K.

These all-day-long-into-the-night affairs....honestly, don't invite me because you'd be wasting your money. I couldn't last that long. I don't even hang out with my own family members for that many hours at once. :lol:

[MalteseBaby]

So you are telling me that the cake and punch receptions were the norm for a wedding with 500-1000 plus guests? I said these types of receptions have been common for SMALL weddings. And it looked to me like the common was saying don't judge culture- which was weird in itself because that is all we do here :lol:

It really bothered me during the planning episode when Michael said she wanted a small wedding with 500 guests. Something ain't right there kids.

And you cannot blame it on the south.

Traditions for receptions definitely ARE different from place to place. Maybe you have friends and family who want to go the country club reception route. Maybe your set is Episcopal or Catholic and therefore, alcohol is more likely to be served.

But, as much as I like you, it is NOT true that it's a " gift grab" to have a very large wedding ( over 500 people attending) and only serve light refreshments that are professionally catered.

Again, I'll say it: IF the tradition at the particular church is for cake, punch, light finger foods, etc, then that's what the brides are going to have.

IF the tradition at the bride's church is for a 5 hour marathon of dancing followed by a 6 course gourmet meal, then that's what the brides are going to have.

You are failing to look at the norm for the particular place. By place, I mean the particular church or the offsite location of the reception. I definitely think that most Southern Baptists keep all receptions, no matter how lavish and large the wedding, low key. You can call it cheap, but I don't see it that way. A 5 hour wedding reception with a huge bunch of people drinking and toasting and then having a formal dinner is entirely out of my experience, and to be honest, I'm SO glad I don't have to put up with it.

When I want a formal dinner, we go to the restaurant we choose and order the courses we want to eat and pay for it ourselves.And leave when we want to leave. In this day and age, life is stressful enough without having to hang out at some girl's wedding for 5 hours or so. No food or friendship is that important to me, personally. Maybe the alcohol makes the difference. I don't like to drink, so again, it would be a drudge for me, personally, even if it was my own wedding reception.

I love a short wedding, a little cake, a little punch, and home to live MY life, not the bride's and groom's.

[ADoyle90815]

There could have been many reasons for the dress. For one they had a short engagement and the #1 choice might not have been ready for her wedding date. It also could have been over budget. Another reasons is that it might not have met her (higher than most of her sisters) modesty standards.

I won't speculate more on the dress until I see more pics of it. However, I don't find it to be the trainwreck that Anna's dress was (could have been lovely, but it did not fit her right and looked about 2 sizes too big).

One thing about Anna's dress is that it reminds me of what Mormon brides have worn for their receptions since they're also big on modesty.

As for this dress, I thought it looked like they just added stuff to a strapless dress, and for a short engagement, they just got a quick fix to make that dress more modest. If they had more in their budget and more time, I'm sure her dress would have looked like it wasn't a modified strapless dress without looking like Anna Ofduggar's dress.

[doubleT]

I have been to all kinds of weddings ... from high mass at a church/sit down dinner receptions to a ceremony in the middle of a cow pasture with cake and punch following. To me, all the weddings I have been to have been lovely.

My one complaint I have with the Duggar/Bates/Keller weddings is all the volunteers they need to pull off the event. Now I understand if a close friend of the family volunteers to make the cake or the reception food as a gift to the bride and groom, but with the 3 families mentioned above, it was clearly shown on their TV shows how many volunteers they used to decorate the church, reception area and how many volunteers they used to serve the guest. A lot of the volunteers traveled to be at the wedding and then are put to work. I recall at either Jill or Jessa's wedding, Sierra had a meeting with the volunteers to tell them everything that needed to be done and made a point to say, " Jill and Derick (or Jessa and Ben) know you are here helping and they are so grateful." But we never saw the bride and groom thanking these volunteers at any point.

This bugs me.

Perhaps I'm way off in my thinking regarding this. I just think this is where these families could spend a little more money and have this hired out so that guest or fans don't have to do this kind of work. (Or have some people picked by the bride and groom to do this kind of thing and recognize them as part of the wedding party.)

In the pics I have seen so far, Erin is the only one wearing the brown layers bridesmaid dress. Jana, Tori, and Alyssa all have on the lace pink one. Erin's dress is styled more like the flower girl dresses. From the couple of pictures I have seen of Michael's dress, the sleeves seem really off.

[lascuba]

Man, culture makes such a huge difference in perception. I'm not much of a partier, but coming from a culture where everything from baby showers to first birthday parties to Christmas is celebrated with drinking and dancing well into the night (and not spending a ton of money), my brain just cannot grasp the mind-numbing boredom of standing around eating snacks with not even some background music. And it's weird because I hate planning events for myself, so for me I kind of like the idea of just having a ceremony and then a quick snack before leaving for the honeymoon, but that would be out of sheer laziness on my part. :lol:

That said, people should do what they're comfortable with and to a certain extent what fits with their social norms. Even considering their relative wealth, it would have been tacky for the Duggars to have sit down dinners and such at their weddings when no one in their circle does that. I considered Jill's and Jessa's weddings tacky only because of the obscene gift grabs that were their registries. You don't request a Macbook or whatever and then feed your guests icecream in a parking lot in November.

[twinmama]

Good lord I can't imagine wearing a long sleeve frumpy dress like the bridesmaids one Alyssa is wearing, in the south, in August!!! UGH.

[twinmama]

I think Jinger's eye liner makes her look unwell.

Certainly makes her look absurd. But yeah, she looks like a huge head on a tiny body. Hope she's not ill.

[socalrules]

I feel like we are back to the wedding shaming that occurs every time there is a fundy wedding. Spend thousands on a huge wedding/reception and the marriage doesn’t last, its gaudy or a waste of money. Have a dollar dance and it’s tacky. The less you spent on your wedding, the more authentic it was or the greater chance of a long term happy wedding. It seems as though if someone did something different than you would do then there has to be something wrong with it. I even admit to being guilty of it in the past. At the end of the day, neither your wedding nor Michael’s is the right wedding for someone else. Everyone else likes different things and it doesn’t make it wrong. The type of wedding/reception is not a guarantee of long term marital bliss.

I will admit that, should I ever get married, I will proudly have the church wedding with the large sit down reception and the dollar dance because that’s how my family does it and we love it. If you want the small wedding with cake and punch that is what you should have because it’s your wedding. If you want over the top huge then go for it. I hope Michael had the wedding she wanted. I don’t like her dress but maybe it makes her feel like the most beautiful bride in the world and that’s all that matters. She wanted a brown accented wedding and it only has to be her cup of tea, not ours. She has nothing to be ashamed of. She knows what she likes, she knows what her peer group likes and I am sure she did her best accommodate everyone. If you expect a fancy wedding with all the bells and whistles, you don’t go to a fundy wedding where you know that is unlikely to occur.

[chris]

Even the small town weddings I've been to in the KC/Omaha area have a reception away from the church (if the wedding is in a church). So punch, ice cream and cake in a church basement for a wedding reception seems odd to me. Mainly since that's where everyone gathers after a funeral!

But the typical weddings I've been to start late afternoon/early evening on a Saturday at a hotel/vineyard/country club, followed by a meal (buffet-style), an open bar for soda, beer & wine, cash bar for anything else, homemade mints (using grandma's recipe and special mint molds), cake, and then dancing and partying until the place closes. Then in my family, the next morning we all meet at a restaurant for brunch.

It takes an entire day/evening, yes, but it's a great time to catch up with people and party! :dance:

[Georgiana]

No matter WHAT Miss Manners says, where I come from it is considered very rude to invite guests from out of town and not feed them at least one meal.

So if you have an afternoon wedding with a cake and punch reception, out of town guests and family would be invited to a post-reception meal usually at someone's house. Doesn't have to be fancy. Just food. It's often a BBQ where various family members bring dishes to serve to keep costs down.

Generally, 3 meals are served to out of town guests: dinner the night before, dinner after the wedding, and breakfast the next morning. But the meal after the ceremony is considered the bare minimum.

None of them have to be fancy. None of them have to be huge. It's really just the gesture of taking care of your guests that counts.

[Mama Mia]

Man, culture makes such a huge difference in perception. I'm not much of a partier, but coming from a culture where everything from baby showers to first birthday parties to Christmas is celebrated with drinking and dancing well into the night (and not spending a ton of money), my brain just cannot grasp the mind-numbing boredom of standing around eating snacks with not even some background music. And it's weird because I hate planning events for myself, so for me I kind of like the idea of just having a ceremony and then a quick snack before leaving for the honeymoon, but that would be out of sheer laziness on my part. :lol:

That said, people should do what they're comfortable with and to a certain extent what fits with their social norms. Even considering their relative wealth, it would have been tacky for the Duggars to have sit down dinners and such at their weddings when no one in their circle does that. I considered Jill's and Jessa's weddings tacky only because of the obscene gift grabs that were their registries. You don't request a Macbook or whatever and then feed your guests icecream in a parking lot in November.

I agree with almost all of this - especially about the Duggars putting on a super fancy sit down dinner if that's not the norm. How uncomfortable would that have made their friends ? Uggh.

I disagree with the part about the gift registery. IIRC they did have some pricey items, but they also had lots of really inexpensive things listed - like in the $5 range. And everything in-between. Since they seem to know people with a range of incomes, and people often pool for gifts - it seems to make sense to include a range.

Frankly, I don't even understand all the hoopla and math around the cost of the wedding somehow being connected to the price of the gift- in either direction. Whether the couple is somehow trying to recoup their costs in gifts, or the guests feel they should get their money;s worth in refreshments and entertainment. Weird, to me. I always thought you threw the wedding you liked and your guests, if they got you a gift, got you somethig they thought you would like, and fit their relationship with you and their budget. I didn't know there was supposed to be a connection between the two.

[Peas n carrots]

I keep hearing that this type of wedding is common in the Midwest... I'm from the Midwest and no. I've never even heard of a wedding like this until FJ and the Duggar specials (yup, I'm sheltered).

Rather than it being a regional thing, it seems to be more of a type of religion thing. My area is heavily Catholic, so afternoon wedding, sit down or buffet dinner, dancing and lots of alcohol... Usually a keg or two plus soda and a cash bar.

And it can totally be done on the cheap here. When I got married 10+ years ago we had a reception at a supper club for about 200 people for under $5000. Of course, I realize that's harder today and for 1000 people.

Same here. Nebraska (my home state) is mainly Catholic and mainstream Protestant and what you outlines is exactly the expectation where I am from. Alcohol is an absolute must - the bar is typically an open bar for a set amount of time and then later in the evening becomes a cash bar, or once the keg runs dry.

Receptions are typically at fraternal organization halls, most often in the country. The wedding is usually at a church.

Most folks from my area are descendants of Czech/German immigrants so receptions without booze were kind of side-eyed.

[Peas n carrots]

Even the small town weddings I've been to in the KC/Omaha area have a reception away from the church (if the wedding is in a church). So punch, ice cream and cake in a church basement for a wedding reception seems odd to me. Mainly since that's where everyone gathers after a funeral!

But the typical weddings I've been to start late afternoon/early evening on a Saturday at a hotel/vineyard/country club, followed by a meal (buffet-style), an open bar for soda, beer & wine, cash bar for anything else, homemade mints (using grandma's recipe and special mint molds), cake, and then dancing and partying until the place closes. Then in my family, the next morning we all meet at a restaurant for brunch.

It takes an entire day/evening, yes, but it's a great time to catch up with people and party! :dance:

*waves at Hiddenomaha* I love me nothing more than homemade mints! Did you do the Flying Dutchman and the Dollar Dance at your weddings?