(Possible Fundie?) Family Murders in Tulsa

[HerNameIsBuffy]

I've found Tamela Bever Massey's Facebook page very strange. There are posts about the murders which seem just devastated, but then there are Minion memes and complaints about the weather. She posted something about the not guilty pleas, saying she couldn't believe the "SOB"'s didn't "have the balls" to plead guilty. I've been suspending my judgment because everybody grieves differently, but I just realized that part of what is so weird is that she is so distant from the family. It's like she doesn't know them. I would be destroyed if my nephews did something like this, but as I said, maybe she grieves differently - but there's not a word of "those boys have always been trouble" or "I never saw it coming." Somebody asked if she knew why, and she seemed pissed and said that's what everybody wants to know. But her posts read like she never met the kids, like she is upset about her brother but not so upset that she can't talk about dinner plans. I've taken all the "they were isolated" talk with a grain of salt, because who knows, but I just now realized I don't think the dad's sister even knew the family.

When this first broke I was struck by her wording that this was her brother his wife and 3 kids. Then I read somewhere else where she referenced her brother and his family. Could mean nothing but I'm weird about language usage and find it fascinating so I tend to focus on what sounds weird to my ear. The wording felt more distant, like he was her family and they were his...but totally could be just how she talks without being indicative of anything.

And while on the subject of things that strike me odd, the pics of the kids pre-tragedy...they seem so somber for kids. it's strange to see several kids posed for pics and no one is grinning. Yes, everything is analyzed to death when something like this happens but i even without the tragedy some of those pics look like photographs from the 1800's where people had to stay still and not smile.

Hearing tomorrow on whether evidence will be released to the public, which is why it wasn't released today as planned. Hope the judge makes the right call on this.

Also Robert's atty had also represented Timothy McVeigh.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

It means their lawyers are doing their jobs, pure legal maneuvers. Everyone pleads not guilty at this stage of the process. The lawyers will try to reduce their sentences and depending on how that goes they will have trials...or not.

Well, not everyone. The 15 year old accused of kidnapping, raping, and killing Madyson Middleton entered no plea (and declined his right to a speedy trial) when he was charged last week. In those cases, the judge enters a plea for you (usually not guilty).

Not guilty means that you're going to trial. Guilty/no contest means that you admit to the crimes and you move on to sentencing without a trial.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/b409a031 ... ly-killing

Judge heard the motions today regarding the release of documents, thus far. Quotes from the article:

A judge ruled Wednesday that a 911 call made from a Tulsa-area home where five people were stabbed to death last month is subject to Oklahoma's Open Records Act, but he said he still may keep it from the public.

District Judge William Musseman was listening to the tape Wednesday afternoon to consider whether it could jeopardize whether two brothers accused of killing their parents and three of their siblings could receive a fair trial. Prosecutors say Robert Bever, 18, and Michael Bever, 16, also attacked their 13-year-old sister, who survived.

The brothers' attorneys oppose the release of the 911 recording, saying it could taint the potential jury pool or jeopardize the investigation. However, they seemed to agree that the other records in the case should be made public.

Chad McLain, an attorney appointed by the court to represent the 13-year-old sister, told the judge he could provide medical evidence that would show that releasing the audio could psychologically damage his client. McLain declined comment outside of court.

Well...I'm glad the 13 year old has an attorney representing her best interests. I am curious as to what is in the other records that the defense is okay with being made public, possibly something sympathetic to their cases?

And as far as I'm concerned the victim doesn't want the tape released and I can imagine one reason outside of prurient interest that anyone outside of the legal system needs to hear that. Hell yes it will traumatize her and you know that shit gets played on every channel in a freaking loop during it's news cycle. This is such a no brainer to me that it shouldn't be released, but I'm assuming that since the judge is weighing it he's trying to reconcile it falling under the open records act without allowing access to the record.

not breaking links because news.

[mebeforee]

I agree that the tape should not be released... I feel like hearing a young child in his last moments would be horrifying to so many people, but hearing your own brother dying in that way (like you said, it'll be on every channel) would be extremely traumatic. But I'm really concerned from the phrasing of the defense attorneys that the call may be released anyway, because although they want there to be a 'fair trial', the brothers are already described as having admitted the crimes and claimed to want to kill many more people. People may take the 'fair trial' thing with a grain of salt as a result of that, and the attorneys may not care so much whether the boys are painted in a dark light with the gravity of their crimes becoming evident.

I am curious, as someone who has no experience with being in court or on a jury - would the call be played for the jury IN the courtroom? Supposedly one of the accused answered the phone, which, if it's clear that it's one of the two defendants, could place them in the home at the time of the attack. It seems like evidence that the prosecutors would likely use in their case against the attackers. Is there some law that prevents those calls from being released in court?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

I agree that the tape should not be released... I feel like hearing a young child in his last moments would be horrifying to so many people, but hearing your own brother dying in that way (like you said, it'll be on every channel) would be extremely traumatic. But I'm really concerned from the phrasing of the defense attorneys that the call may be released anyway, because although they want there to be a 'fair trial', the brothers are already described as having admitted the crimes and claimed to want to kill many more people. People may take the 'fair trial' thing with a grain of salt as a result of that, and the attorneys may not care so much whether the boys are painted in a dark light with the gravity of their crimes becoming evident.

I am curious, as someone who has no experience with being in court or on a jury - would the call be played for the jury IN the courtroom? Supposedly one of the accused answered the phone, which, if it's clear that it's one of the two defendants, could place them in the home at the time of the attack. It seems like evidence that the prosecutors would likely use in their case against the attackers. Is there some law that prevents those calls from being released in court?

I am definitely not a lawyer, either but I can't imagine they'd wouldn't be able to play it in court as its evidence. I think you can only exclude evidence if it's not legally admissible but I can't see any ambiguity there with a 911 call.

It serves a function in court and it serves none for the oublic. I really wish the press would think about what they are asking and weigh it against the well being of a young girl who is way past capacity for what anyone should have to endure.

Edited because words

[mebeforee]

See, that was my thought too. I can't imagine why it wouldn't be played in court. So how would it prevent a fair trial if it were released? (Again, I DON'T think it should be released, I'm just trying to understand the legal precedent that would suggest the call could create unfair bias when it seems like something that would be used in court)

[HerNameIsBuffy]

See, that was my thought too. I can't imagine why it wouldn't be played in court. So how would it prevent a fair trial if it were released? (Again, I DON'T think it should be released, I'm just trying to understand the legal precedent that would suggest the call could create unfair bias when it seems like something that would be used in court)

I think that's about tainting the jury pool. What is played in court is controlled and the defense gets to respond where if it's just out there in the public it's harder to find potential jurors who can be unbiased. Or as unbiased as possible.

The jury will have to be exposed to the horrific facts, they just don't want exposure to be uncontrolled.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Oh it will 100% be admitted into evidence and it will be played in court. That is standard practice.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Judge ruled that they will not be releasing audio of the call, but will release a transcript:

Musseman denied their request to seal all other documents related to the case, saying they are subject to release under the Oklahoma Open Records Act. However, he said he believes releasing the computer-aided dispatch transcript of the 911 call — rather than the tape — will be sufficiently responsive to comply with media outlets’ Open Records Act requests.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/courts/j ... 598e4.html

[plantmum6]

Hello. I'm new to this board. These posts kept popping up as I was searching for information about this horrific situation, and I realized you folks on here were are on the same track as I. I have found soon much in searching, clues...but no answer.

Doesn't anyone think it's odd that David was 24 and April was 15 when they were married?

They, or one of them, was born in Grayson County, Texas...as well as married for the FIRST time there. They were married again about 6-7 years later in Florida.

If you search the places they lived...it does appear that Church of God, and other Pentecostal holy rolling churches, had major churches, headquarters etc. In Sherman, Texas (Grayson County), Cleveland, Tennessee, St. Petersburg, Florida and now Broken Arrow.

I wonder if they were really well to do, or is this one of those families that believes in "the fake it till you make it" abundance theory? Did he work for a church too?

I've honestly spent too many hours at this...found so many various web pages, emails, social profiles etc. One of the most upsetting is a picture of Michael on April's Etsy store, he was 11, sweetest looking kid posing with a hand stitched card.

Crystal, seems so grown up. She has a linked in with a resume of sorts, looking for work as a writer etc. It is connected to April's...the "resume" seems pretty pumped up, to me. It looks like Robert tried a couple of biz from home (audioheadone was one I believe, I've got it written down). Michael seems more mellow, aokiegolfer is one of his emails....

Why did they do this?????

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Hello. I'm new to this board. These posts kept popping up as I was searching for information about this horrific situation, and I realized you folks on here were are on the same track as I. I have found soon much in searching, clues...but no answer.

Doesn't anyone think it's odd that David was 24 and April was 15 when they were married?

They, or one of them, was born in Grayson County, Texas...as well as married for the FIRST time there. They were married again about 6-7 years later in Florida.

If you search the places they lived...it does appear that Church of God, and other Pentecostal holy rolling churches, had major churches, headquarters etc. In Sherman, Texas (Grayson County), Cleveland, Tennessee, St. Petersburg, Florida and now Broken Arrow.

I wonder if they were really well to do, or is this one of those families that believes in "the fake it till you make it" abundance theory? Did he work for a church too?

I've honestly spent too many hours at this...found so many various web pages, emails, social profiles etc. One of the most upsetting is a picture of Michael on April's Etsy store, he was 11, sweetest looking kid posing with a hand stitched card.

Crystal, seems so grown up. She has a linked in with a resume of sorts, looking for work as a writer etc. It is connected to April's...the "resume" seems pretty pumped up, to me. It looks like Robert tried a couple of biz from home (audioheadone was one I believe, I've got it written down). Michael seems more mellow, aokiegolfer is one of his emails....

Why did they do this?????

From David's linkedin he worked at HP - I posted some of the specifics up thread but base salary for his position is in the low 6 figure ballpark. With one income and all those kids isn't not affluent. The idea that they have money is more from the way the home was described as being one of the largest and most expensive on their block. It's fine, and it's certainly far bigger than you can get for $245k in my neck of the woods, but it's not a mcmansion or anything. That's not an unreasonable amount of money to spend on a house if his income is within the parameters listed for HP employees in the same position.

What do you mean they were married again 7 years later. Do you mean in a religious sense or another legal marriage?

[plantmum6]

There is a marriage recorded in Florida in 1993, same names, birthdates...but wait I just realized it said "bride was 15"...I need to go look at that again, she wouldn't still be 15? If you look back on this thread always another person talks about this too....

Moneywise: I kinda wondered if they were well off why they are trying to sell all over the internet....

[Eighth-of-eleven]

When I worked in a maximum security forensic psychiatric institution I worked with a few parricides over the years. Those who had a committed parricide as young men, teenagers, or even just barely teens, were generally pretty sick. schizoaffective, bipolar, or truly psychopathic: antisocial personality disorder with narcissistic features or borderline features (with of course a hx of oppositional defiance pd) and usually a history of neglect or abuse. So who knows. No one really but those who were there for now, with two offenders it could be a folie a deux.

[Eighth-of-eleven]

If schizophrenic or schizoaffective the ages for first psychotic break are about right at 18, though a bit on the youngish side of usual.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

When I worked in a maximum security forensic psychiatric institution I worked with a few parricides over the years. Those who had a committed parricide as young men, teenagers, or even just barely teens, were generally pretty sick. schizoaffective, bipolar, or truly psychopathic: antisocial personality disorder with narcissistic features or borderline features (with of course a hx of oppositional defiance pd) and usually a history of neglect or abuse. So who knows. No one really but those who were there for now, with two offenders it could be a folie a deux.

Wow. That had to be a tough job to shake at the end of the day. In your experience is it common for siblings to be similarly affected (inherently) even if non-violent?

Just googled follie a duex - talk about the complexities of the human mind.

[Eighth-of-eleven]

Not any of the ones I have worked with, I have never directly worked with any person who committed parricide who killed family members or a parent with the cooperation of a sibling.

[Eighth-of-eleven]

Wow. That had to be a tough job to shake at the end of the day. In your experience is it common for siblings to be similarly affected (inherently) even if non-violent?

Just googled follie a duex - talk about the complexities of the human mind.[/quote

It was a tough job to shake at the end of the day. It got tougher as the years passed. I retired after I was assaulted by a very violent, very mentally ill patient two years ago. But ten years of working "behind security" definitely changed me. Not for the better.

[bubblekitty]

Moneywise: I kinda wondered if they were well off why they are trying to sell all over the internet....

People enjoy selling stuff on the internet, it is often more about the hobby than the money. Same with all the giveaways and win stuff sites she participated in. There are whole communities with forums etc.. dedicated to that stuff. Probably have more fun with it when you don't actually need the (usually small) profits.

[Mama Mia]

People enjoy selling stuff on the internet, it is often more about the hobby than the money. Same with all the giveaways and win stuff sites she participated in. There are whole communities with forums etc.. dedicated to that stuff. Probably have more fun with it when you don't actually need the (usually small) profits.

Yea, and with a large family I'm sure any extra money was helpful, even if he made a decent income and the house was fairly inexpensive. You still have a large chunk going out to taxes, food, utilities, mortgage payments, health insurance, more food, clothing.....it adds up fast.

[plantmum6]

I agree with those above that suggest a serious mental issues is involved here. I am thinking it was mostly Robert, but he and Michael were close, and isolated, and I suspect Michael followed his older brother.

In the picture in the documents Robert appears to have a huge Adams apple/goiter?

I'm wondering if April tried her best but as he got out of control, she had her hands full with all the others?

Perhaps she ignored it, prayed and hoped he would be okay while she went on with trying to raise the rest of the kids. Did Robert know that he was off? Did he convince his younger brother that somehow the family looked down upon he, and the younger one by close association? In his head did he secretly hate his younger siblings because (not having his

mental issues) for being "better" students, devotees of God, happy kids etc. I noticed the kids seemed very smart online, particularly the survivor. He was no longer in school, and it appears he was no longer employed. Maybe he hated his siblings or just feared that they would all have good lives, while he suffered at home with his parents.

Do you think maybe Robert, in a twisted, psychotic state blamed his parents for his outcome, believes their decision to homeschool ruined his life in a way that can never be fixed? ....no do overs....

The other thing is they kinda look like they are on something?

It will most likely come out soon, a discussion about past calls by the police to their residence, as outlined in the documents. One is drunk in public. Their are a few during the same time April posted on a website that her brother was living with them, it was hard, she said but he was her brother and felt she should help him.

Last comment: The boys signatures are barely legible, in a childish way. .like they don't even know how to make basic letters and connect them in cursive?

[Flossie]

Several times it was reported that the older boy was convinced that he was super smart, maybe even a genius. He's said to have told people that his parents prevented him from attending Harvard, where he seemed to believe he'd be the smartest one there.

I wouldn't be surprised if he had fantasies of showing up on campus and having people immediately sense he was much better than them. Maybe he dreamed of correcting embarrassed professors when they made a mistake, having the pretty girls all vie to be his girlfriend, and all the cool guys wanting to be his friend so they could bask in the reflected glory of his awesomeness.

Instead, he was stuck at home where no one appreciated his greatness and he wasn't out making friends and influencing people.

The younger brother was described as a follower. Maybe the mild type who has no real thoughts or convictions of thier own, just waits for someone else to tell them what to think, say, or do.

If the older brother got the younger one alone and spelled out how wrong things are, I guess the younger one would follow along, especially if the parents weren't paying much attention. "Don't you see, bro? I could have been at Harvard setting the world on fire, but I'm stuck here. When you were ready, I could have brought you with me, and together we could do great things! But we're stuck here. We have to change that. We have to let people know they can't keep us down. We're going to make sure they all learn their lesson, and then we're going go out into the world and OWN it! Get your knife and follow me."

As for killing the rest of the kids? If big brother tried to 'convert' some of the others and they ignored him or told on him, he could easily decide that all the other kids were just as much of an enemy as the parents were.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

This is very detailed speculation for a situation with very few facts presented to the public. I am also wondering why this happened but I can't personally have an opinion on fictional scenarios to fit the narative.

Inserting my comments below to make it easier to see to what I'm responding - mine are in pink.

I agree with those above that suggest a serious mental issues is involved here. I am thinking it was mostly Robert, but he and Michael were close, and isolated, and I suspect Michael followed his older brother.

In the picture in the documents Robert appears to have a huge Adams apple/goiter?

It isn't a goiter it's his adam's apple - a lot of skinny guys with thin necks have protruding adam's apples. I don't understand the relevance?

I'm wondering if April tried her best but as he got out of control, she had her hands full with all the others?

Perhaps she ignored it, prayed and hoped he would be okay while she went on with trying to raise the rest of the kids. Did Robert know that he was off? Did he convince his younger brother that somehow the family looked down upon he, and the younger one by close association? In his head did he secretly hate his younger siblings because (not having his

mental issues) for being "better" students, devotees of God, happy kids etc. I noticed the kids seemed very smart online, particularly the survivor. He was no longer in school, and it appears he was no longer employed. Maybe he hated his siblings or just feared that they would all have good lives, while he suffered at home with his parents.

Do you think maybe Robert, in a twisted, psychotic state blamed his parents for his outcome, believes their decision to homeschool ruined his life in a way that can never be fixed? ....no do overs....

The other thing is they kinda look like they are on something?

Whether drugs were involved or not those mug shots were taken after they had just murdered much of their family. The first set were taken on scene and the second within a short time as they arrived for booking. Even without drugs anyone would be in an altered state due to the circumstances which can cause someone to look out of it. There is no way to tell that from a picture.

It will most likely come out soon, a discussion about past calls by the police to their residence, as outlined in the documents. One is drunk in public. Their are a few during the same time April posted on a website that her brother was living with them, it was hard, she said but he was her brother and felt she should help him.

The only thing I saw in the news is below:

http://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/ ... -usb-drive

Where did you read that about her brother? Is it a public post? If it's public you can share the link if you break it, but not if it's a private page.

Last comment: The boys signatures are barely legible, in a childish way. .like they don't even know how to make basic letters and connect them in cursive?

So is mine and so are my kids. Cursive isn't even being taught in many schools today and my kids never had to use it outside of learning it initially. The only one in my family with a signature that looks like a grown-up wrote it is my husband and he says that's due to 12 years of Catholic school where apparently it was still very important. I understand many people are looking for clues to make sense of this tragedy, but trying to read tea leaves won't bring any answers.

Edited to add about the previous calls.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Several times it was reported that the older boy was convinced that he was super smart, maybe even a genius. He's said to have told people that his parents prevented him from attending Harvard, where he seemed to believe he'd be the smartest one there.

I wouldn't be surprised if he had fantasies of showing up on campus and having people immediately sense he was much better than them. Maybe he dreamed of correcting embarrassed professors when they made a mistake, having the pretty girls all vie to be his girlfriend, and all the cool guys wanting to be his friend so they could bask in the reflected glory of his awesomeness.

Instead, he was stuck at home where no one appreciated his greatness and he wasn't out making friends and influencing people.

The younger brother was described as a follower. Maybe the mild type who has no real thoughts or convictions of thier own, just waits for someone else to tell them what to think, say, or do.

If the older brother got the younger one alone and spelled out how wrong things are, I guess the younger one would follow along, especially if the parents weren't paying much attention. "Don't you see, bro? I could have been at Harvard setting the world on fire, but I'm stuck here. When you were ready, I could have brought you with me, and together we could do great things! But we're stuck here. We have to change that. We have to let people know they can't keep us down. We're going to make sure they all learn their lesson, and then we're going go out into the world and OWN it! Get your knife and follow me."

As for killing the rest of the kids? If big brother tried to 'convert' some of the others and they ignored him or told on him, he could easily decide that all the other kids were just as much of an enemy as the parents were.

This was stated by one person and it was reported in several news outlets all taken from the same interview. It may be pedantic but it's important to remember that reading something in various sources can give it more weight than it really deserves. If this was something he had said repeatedly to multiple people and that was corroborated that could speak to this being a deeply held source of resentment for him, but to one person? Maybe it was. Maybe it was just something he said to brag, to vent, whatever.

Also it was never stated that he thought he would be the smartest one there. What happened was horrific enough without embellishment.

I'm not an apologist for people who kill their families, but if we're going to look at what happened it's important that we don't over inflate some details and make them "facts" when without further evidence we have no idea if it was something significant or just an off-hand aside.

I say stuff (probably too often) which would make me sound like an arrogant jackass if taken out of context and assumed to be my overarching feelings rather than just a throwaway rant.

[plantmum6]

Hi, I'm on my way to work so can only answer quickly.

The Adams apple\goiter comment is because my thyroid went whack suddenly last year, really messed me up. I was wondering if he was hyper-thyroid.....that's all. If you read about it in young men it can cause a lot of crazy symptoms!

The post by April about her brother was on a site where a woman was selling or giving away something...April thanks her and then goes into her life a bit, mentions her brother.

I will try to find it again later. Also, the past calls are all outlined in the documents released yesterday, you have to download them.

[plantmum6]

Okay this is fascinating. You should pretty much be able to follow my searches and get to the same places I'm about to mention on internet.

OK, I started by typing in their address in quotes and Oklahoma.

Domain look up sites began coming up.

One of the 46 sites registered to April is called www.714.net

I did a number of searches on that domain, and discovered it had been registered to April since its Creation in 1996.

Shortly after a Google book search on the www.714.net brought up a Los Angeles magazine from 1998. The ad in the back of the magazine was highlighted by Google books : its a chat room personals ad! Advertising several sites...one is 714.net.

Okay...the ad says "Oasys Global Network" ...so I searched that...its owned by another company! But the person to contact is webmaster@gtekmedia,

So I searched THAT and found this weird video....that is a Christian hybrid biz...wait, that owns a company that hired 714.net back in the 80s for singles chat rooms.

Watch the video about them here Gtekmedia - YouTube

Does any of this mean anything? Probably means I'm obsessing over this and its time to let it go. ..