Jana's future

[nastyhobbitses]

9 minutes ago, actuallyjessica said:

I found the TH from Jana very honest and telling. She said she was looking at everyone she knew, and wondered if they were telling the truth about who they were or if they were just wearing a mask. There was obviously some deep questioning done by Jana. The other girls didn't give such a reaction that I noticed, but Jana's stuck out to me.

Out of all the older girls, she seems like the smartest/most introspective. I hope she continues to question and think and come up with her own point of view on things. Maybe she won't do the big dramatic escape, but if she has just a little bit of doubt and critical thinking skills left in her that JB and M didn't beat/JTTH out of her, maybe she can reevaluate her faith and find her own path.

[BackseatMom]

Kids can be very resilient. Given the chance, she (or any of the kids) could certainly gain some self esteem, start questioning, and ultimately make their own decisions.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

2 hours ago, BackseatMom said:

Kids can be very resilient. Given the chance, she (or any of the kids) could certainly gain some self esteem, start questioning, and ultimately make their own decisions.

Hopefully they're give the chance 

[PregnantPornStar]

Kids can be very resilient. Given the chance, she (or any of the kids) could certainly gain some self esteem, start questioning, and ultimately make their own decisions.

Maybe, but I also think it is possible that it will be noticed the rest of the world is nuts and going back to what is comfortable will seem "safer".

[InThePrayerCloset]

I had a conversation today with 3 women raised in different large catholic families.

Each woman is now in her early thirties, and was responsible for raising her 14, 16 or 12 siblings. Interestingly, each woman is happily unmarried with absolutely no desire to marry or have children - each independently and emphatically said "well i've already had 11, 13 or 15 kids, i don't need any more".

This 100% sounds to me like Jana... As well as there being, perhaps, an unsaid prohibition from JBM. 

 

[SassyPants]

Let's face it, at this point, would you rather have Jana's life or Jill/Jessa's life?

The best a Duggar girl's life gets is a wedding day [which is not that great] and the next 9-12 months. 

I think that within the confines and choices that Gothard and JB allow girls, Jana likes the life she has. 

Jill is in hiding with her stressed out husband.

Jessa is married to an unemployed boy still in adolescence. Day 40 has just passed. Can you imagine having HER life? Her son is named Spurgeon...bet next year when spawn 2 is on the way, she'll tell him that she's picking the name.

3 hours ago, InThePrayerCloset said:

I had a conversation today with 3 women raised in different large catholic families.

Each woman is now in her early thirties, and was responsible for raising her 14, 16 or 12 siblings. Interestingly, each woman is happily unmarried with absolutely no desire to marry or have children - each independently and emphatically said "well i've already had 11, 13 or 15 kids, i don't need any more".

This 100% sounds to me like Jana... As well as there being, perhaps, an unsaid prohibition from JBM. 

 

Add my SIL to the list. She married an older man who had already raised kids. So, no kids ever, but she's had a very lucrative career. And yep, she has said many times, "I already raised a family."

[InThePrayerCloset]

3 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Let's face it, at this point, would you rather have Jana's life or Jill/Jessa's life?

The best a Duggar girl's life gets is a wedding day [which is not that great] and the next 9-12 months. 

I think that within the confines and choices that Gothard and JB allow girls, Jana likes the life she has. 

Jill is in hiding with her stressed out husband.

Jessa is married to an unemployed boy still in adolescence. Day 40 has just passed. Can you imagine having HER life? Her son is named Spurgeon...bet next year when spawn 2 is on the way, she'll tell him that she's picking the name.

snip

I completely agree @SassyPants

At least all Jana's "babies" are out of diapers and she's not risking her own health.

While Jana has done accountabilibuddy doula training, i imagine that she must have pretty traumatic views of sex and childbirth. leaving aside potential molestation (i don't want to speculate etc), Jana has been exposed to a hell of a lot of birth-related trauma:

- Michelles births of Josie and Jubilee

- TLC Producer Courtney Enlow's premature baby during the trip to China

- Jill's alleged 70 hour labour and emergency c section; and most recently

- Jessa's post partum haemorrhage. 

This is leaving aside anything else she may have seen during her "training" and "work" as a doula.

Given her lack of proper medical/health/reproductive education, and no access to counselling or support (like that which medical professionals receive after traumatic incidents at work), i can imagine that she would be pretty terrified of sex and birth even when you leave out the fundie/gothard shame and burden of eve etc.

[BackseatMom]

I get it. I thought I wanted a few kids until I had one. Now I'm enjoying the heck out of this one, with zero plans to add to our little family. 

One reason some people have kids is so they will always have family around. Clearly, Jana is in no risk of ever, ever having any amount of time alone. 

[19 cats and counting]

Jana's 'babies' may all be out of diapers, but from a lot of pics I've seen, she's helping out a lot with Meredith as a sister aunt.

[elliha]

3 hours ago, InThePrayerCloset said:

I had a conversation today with 3 women raised in different large catholic families.

Each woman is now in her early thirties, and was responsible for raising her 14, 16 or 12 siblings. Interestingly, each woman is happily unmarried with absolutely no desire to marry or have children - each independently and emphatically said "well i've already had 11, 13 or 15 kids, i don't need any more".

This 100% sounds to me like Jana... As well as there being, perhaps, an unsaid prohibition from JBM. 

 

My MIL said her sister didn't marry partly because she had so much responsibility for her siblings. They were "only" 6 siblings too. From that family I don't think the idea of children and family life came out very appealing, only two married and had 1 child each and another one married later in life. From that many children, only two grandchildren. I grew up in a family of 5 and there are 12 children from all of us so far, I am pregnant so it might end up being 13 or maybe 14. Both my parents were from big families, 5 and 7 kids and in both their family everyone had at least 1 child and many had 3 or more. In neither family people seem to have been scared out of family life completely but in neither my mom's or my dad's family the oldest daughter was raising the children. Sure, the older children did babysit but they didn't have a parental responsibility.

[Kira]

i don't know when or if Jana will get married or if she'll have children(or how many), but:

Many fundie girls/women who've raised their sibling can't wait to have their own quiver. Have you guys ever checked out "Free Jinger"?   Some of these women have gotten married in the mid-late 20s( and later) and try to have as many babies as possible.

 

What makes Jana different than all the other women that have raised siblings? You think she's the first fundie to see how difficult pregnancy and labor can be. Those things haven't stopped other women .

 

 

 

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

2 minutes ago, Kira said:

i don't know when or if Jana will get married or if she'll have children(or how many), but:

Many fundie girls/women who've raised their sibling can't wait to have their own quiver. have you guys ever checked out "Free Jinger"  Some of these women have gotten married in the mid-late 20s( and later) and they try to have as many babies as possible.

 

What makes Jana different than all the other women that have raised siblings? You think she's the first fundie to see how difficult pregnancy and labor can be. Those things haven't stopped other women .

 

 

 

People had the same view of Jill and Jessa before they got pregnant (look how many people were certain that Jessa would be "magically infertile" before Baby Seewald was announced). We WANT a better life for these "kids," and we also know how we wordly people would react in their situation; the assumed views and reasons are projections of either how people see these "kids" getting a better life, or how people would react in their situation. 

Personally, I am more along the lines of those other fundies. I'm almost 30, unmarried, and I've been a nanny for 11 years, during which time I've taken care of 26 children on a regular basis, including some families with 15-24 hour care, preemies fresh from the NICU (2 sets of twins and 1 singleton), after surgery care (one medical emergency (the stomach valve of one of the preemies closed and wouldn't reopen), the other just something necessary but not life threatening), 3 long term health conditions (including PKU and two counts of birth defects that require regular medical intervention), 2 autistic children (do not correct me and say children with autism, both of them prefer autistic rather than with autism), etc. However, there is nothing I want more than a large (4-6 children) family, and every time I finish a year without children, I die a little inside. 

[BullyJBG]

Jana may be feeling similar to feelings I had before my marriage, and then after hubby died. Now seeing what happened with Josh, and seeing what Anna's going through, the reality of "if it can happen to them it can happen to me". She may not have seen as many separated/divorced people before, or they all weren't Christians, or it happened in their "B.C." days. But her saying "who DO you trust" rings a bell. But, we'll see from here.

[August]

On 27 June 2015 at 6:01 PM, LilahBelle said:

I'd like to see Jana, Jinger and Joyanna break free once Joyanna turns 18. I'd like to think that this is what they are waiting for.

I would give that show ratings! Jana, Jinger and Joyanna sharing an apartment and all going to college or working. Except they'd never be allowed to refer to each other by name, unless they were willing to adopt the correct pronounciations of their names (Yar-na and Jing-er)

[Whoosh]

20 minutes ago, BullyJBG said:

Jana may be feeling similar to feelings I had before my marriage, and then after hubby died. Now seeing what happened with Josh, and seeing what Anna's going through, the reality of "if it can happen to them it can happen to me". She may not have seen as many separated/divorced people before, or they all weren't Christians, or it happened in their "B.C." days. But her saying "who DO you trust" rings a bell. But, we'll see from here.

I haven't watched the special and I have only quickly read the commentary.  That said, you just brought up the one thing that flew out at me and really made an impact.  Jana saying "who DO you trust" really hit me hard for two reasons.  First, and I may be wrong here, but as a young fundie woman from a large family shouldn't her list of who to trust be extremely long and start like this and then go on and on and on?

 

Who I Trust

• God
• Jesus
• Holy Spirit
• My father
• My mother

The second reason that it really stood out for me is that I do know that feeling of having once been a person who fully trusted some people and then had that experience happen that caused me to wake up one day saying "who DO you trust".  Hearing that she said that does tear at my heartstrings a bit.

[JMO]

Did anyone see Jessa's picture of the Holy family  Jana drew? She's really talented. 

[mebeforee]

I saw the picture, though I thought it was a little odd that she'd pulled up on her phone a photo of a middle eastern man smiling as a reference (I'm guessing?). Her drawings were good but that seemed a little odd to me, and especially when Mary looked so fair haired. It's not weird to me that she would refer to a photo but it's weird to me that Jessa made sure to include that. Like 'yeah, we're not racist! This wise man is totally amazed at Mary's gilded locks!'

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

3 hours ago, mebeforee said:

I saw the picture, though I thought it was a little odd that she'd pulled up on her phone a photo of a middle eastern man smiling as a reference (I'm guessing?). Her drawings were good but that seemed a little odd to me, and especially when Mary looked so fair haired. It's not weird to me that she would refer to a photo but it's weird to me that Jessa made sure to include that. Like 'yeah, we're not racist! This wise man is totally amazed at Mary's gilded locks!'

I doubt it was a "we're not racist" thing so much as proving that she's not just copying from something that someone else did. 

[EmCatlyn]

4 hours ago, mebeforee said:

I saw the picture, though I thought it was a little odd that she'd pulled up on her phone a photo of a middle eastern man smiling as a reference (I'm guessing?). Her drawings were good but that seemed a little odd to me, and especially when Mary looked so fair haired. It's not weird to me that she would refer to a photo but it's weird to me that Jessa made sure to include that. Like 'yeah, we're not racist! This wise man is totally amazed at Mary's gilded locks!'

I thought the picture Jessa had on the phone might come from some movie or documentary about Jesus or the nativity alone.  It could be she was getting all the figures from films.

[lunaselene503]

On December 12, 2015 at 0:15 AM, Timetostoplurking said:

I come from a family of 4 girls, I'm the 3rd.  The older duggar girls remind me in, many ways, of my family....it's actually a little scary.  We all seem to match up pretty well with the Duggar girls.  I hate to admit it but I see a bit of my 20something self in Jessa. The 2nd oldest girl in my family really reminds me of Jill....a lot. My youngest sister is scary like Jinger.  So...Jana!   Yup....just like my oldest sister.  Let's call her sister "A".

Sister "A" married at 30.  (2nd sister (Jill) was first to get married at age 24 and I (Jessa) got married at 23.)   Sound familiar?  There are other similarities but not worth going into now. Lol   Sister "A" is the most like my parents.  She tends to parrot everything they stand for.  (They are wonderful people, but just more conservative than I am)  She very much "toes the family line".   I wouldn't be surprised if Jana is the same way.  All that responsibility for all those years and she in completely in line with her parents.  I don't see her breaking free.   Jana will eventually get married, to a daddy approved man.  Like sister "A", I think she is just picky, waiting for the guy who fits the ATI mold.    I really hope I'm wrong ,but I think Jana is not going to break away. 

 

 Thank you for sharing. If I may ask: Did your Jinger get married? And if yes, at what age? Maybe we can find out who will be the next to leave the main house.

[Timetostoplurking]

7 hours ago, lunaselene503 said:

 Thank you for sharing. If I may ask: Did your Jinger get married? And if yes, at what age? Maybe we can find out who will be the next to leave the main house.

Yes, our "jinger" got married.  She was round 30, has 2 kids and tends to do her own thing.   She is probably the most liberal of the 4 of us.  If anyone breaks free (at least from the 4 older girls) is going to be Jessa or Jinger.  Jessa will probably sneak away slowly over time. Gradually adding more "worldlyness" to her life.   (Which is what I have done).  Where as Jinger might just move out.  Especially if Jessa sort of "helps" her.  I don't know.....I'm just sort of speculating.   All I can say is that Jana isn't going anywhere!!  My oldest sister just freezes up when faced with a decision.  She tends to do what she thinks will others will approve of.  Jinger and Jessa seem more independent.  I guess time will tell.    Now, if TLC would just cancell that stupid show already, that might speed things up.

[MoonFace]

On 12/2/2015 at 10:05 AM, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

It has been stated many times that they couldn't go to Michelle. The event was supposed to be a surprise for their parents. I imagine that Jana, as the oldest, is the one who is the stand in disciplinarian when Michelle and JB can't be for whatever reason. But I never took that to mean she was the only one. 

As the oldest in my family, that's the role I took. My brother and sister did their best to handle situations when they fought and I was in charge because they knew I wouldn't necessarily handle it the way they wanted or I would involve my parents when they got back. I was hardly scary or abusive or whatever, neither were my parents, but they more or less feared getting others involved in their squabbles. One famous incident is when my sister took the last ice cream that was meant for my brother while my parents were at a concert. My brother and sister fought about it, I got involved, my sister got angry because she wasn't getting her way, she stormed off in an absolute fit of rage and somehow failed to turn at the end of the hall. She ended up putting her knee though the wall. I had to call my parents at the concert. I put her in time out in her room until my parents came home (they had to leave early), and she ended up getting grounded. 

On the bolded:   It could be that she does stand in because she is the eldest of the girls. 

I was the eldest child and I was held responsible for the youngest kids.    If they got into trouble it was my responsibility - either I should have prevented it or I should have taken care of it.   If not, I took the fall beating for it.   (semi fundie upbringing)   

We don't know if she is being held accountable to her parents for any problems that arise or what.   

[calimojo]

Jana and Jinger both make me sad.  They both seem to have some talents, Jana is musical and seems to have some artistic talent (BTW if JD did that drawing of the Treehouse that was shown, he has some too),  Jinger seems to have a fun and creative fashion sense, within the confines of the rules she has to follow.  She might have been drawn to fashion merchandising or perhaps even retail in a fun clothing store.  Jessa never had much spark to her imo, other than her prettiness and her occasional snarkiness which in the confines of their life is the closest they get to normal teenaged rebellion.  Joy might have been good in athletics.  She certainly seemed to enjoy physical activities when she was younger. 

 

But now these 3 older girls are left to pack for faux mission trips for the family, raise their siblings and nieces and nephews, and pretend to sell cars, or do home improvements just to try to make them seem more interesting. 

 

And, they are subjected to the indignity of being put on the auction block by their father and TLC in an effort to create a new courtship that might carry the show another season.  And, they are probably not even being paid directly for the work of filming and the invasion into their lives.  I suspect the money goes back to Duggar, Inc., and the kids get a small stipend for a clothing allowance and for their grooming products.    It is such a limited life.  I always thought that parents wanted more for their children than what they had.  I would think that JB and Michelle would at least have wanted to equip their children to live life as an adult, but they have failed.  Even the married kids are dependent in one way or another on JB.    Sad and Sick

 

 

[BeccaGrim]

What happens to Jana if she doesn't get married? I mean this seriously.  Let's say she never does (and this is not judgment from me btw, in the real world there is nothing to say a woman has to do this.) then what?  What happens when some day Jim Bob and Michelle are gone? Does she go live with John David and he supports her? What happens in this day and age to an unmarried, unemployed woman in the Fundie world who never gets married? 

[calimojo]

As long as they can financially maintain the TTH and the property, I think if Jana never marries, and never leaves home,  she will be at that home.  I think the house will go to which ever kid has the most kids, or  possible to JD as the oldest,  and not shamed son.  Jana will get to live there because she will be the live-in help.  That is currently her lot in life and unless she marries out of it, or decides to leave, which seems unlikely based on what we have observed with her so far,  this will always be her lot in life.  So this beautiful, artistic, musical, and apparently gentle and kind young woman is and will ever always be unpaid domestic help, who can be loaned out to any other sibling in need for babysitting, housework, cooking, etc, whenever her headship pleases. 

 

Way upstream, someone mentioned that she might come out of the fog on her own and that kids are resilient,  but I think we have to keep in mind that Jana is not a kid anymore.  Imprinting of her brain has been done and without a lot of support and therapy, she is unlikely to shake this off.  Not impossible, but unlikely. 

 

Part of what she needs is motivation, and perhaps if they were still living in that tiny ranch house like sardines, wearing prairie dresses, taking baths on a rotation schedule, shopping at Aldi or discount stores for outdated or used items,  she might have some more motivation to change.  But she lives in a comfortable home, has pretty much no immediate worries about being hungry, or not having shelter.  She has access to the material belongings that she wants, and she is starting to the end of the tunnel in terms of raising her mother's kids.  And, as far as we know, she is no longer being blanket trained or disciplined by her parents, and now that Josh's issues are out in the open, she probably feels safe from him.  I think she views her life as being as comfortable now as it is likely to ever be. 

We all want her to be free, but it doesn't look like that is happening soon.  It is too bad, though because if she could break free, many others would follow.  Jinger and Joy for sure, and Possibly JD, Joe and Josiah. 

 

Every once in awhile I see someone post here, or DWOP, or even Pickle's page, and they will comment that they live near the Duggars and run into them on occasion.  I just wish that one of these people would be able to get a few minutes alone with Jana and offer her to help her get away.  Even just  give her a phone number to call sometime  when she might be able to lock herself away in the bathroom faking an attack of diarrhea so she can be alone.  ( do you think JB and M require the kids leave their cellphones somewhere when they go to the bathroom?)