Duggars on Megyn Kelly, Friday Night Edition

[violynn]

I just woke up on the other side of the pond and started reading about the interview, recaps etc. I try to display good manners on the internet but...

*takes deep breath*

F**k you, Jessa and Jill. F**k your husbands and their false chivalry. F**k Josh, who hides behind his mother's skirts. What real men you have in your family. F**k you, Jim Bob and Michelle. I am so over these dangerous, moronic cultists. F**k all of the other Duggarlings with the same mentality. That's it, they succeeded in breeding robot soldiers that will probably use any kind of media outlet to poison more brains. They are no more people you can get your message across to, they are close minded, closehearted androids. I do not have any affectionate feelings for people who had WAY more chance of being exposed to the world and still chose to be hateful bigots. And f**k you too, leghumpers, this is why 'haters' (puke at the word) cannot just 'turn the TV off, if they don't like this family'. Because the poison they spread will come back to you in real life through people who choose to leave their TV on and drool over their mentality. From now on, the focus should be on writing to sponsors and advertisers. If you want to get rid of mosquitoes, you drain the swamp.

Back to lurking on Quiver Full of Duggars forum until one of the kids break free (F**k Duggars).

Sorry, but I think I love you a little bit right now. :lol:

Honestly, I love you ALL just a little bit. Call me :cray-cray: but it is what it is

[Imrlgoddess]

Finally watching, haven't read the recap (thanks again Buzzard!).

All I see is the way they were raised. All the things they were ever told about how the world works. All the lines they were fed as children. I wish I could say that I've never seen this before but I have.

Boys "feeling on" girls was a part of growing up where I'm from. No one ever counseled anyone.... The girls told, the boys got fussed at & the girls ultimately learned to slap the shit out of a boy the next time.

These young women truly believe this is no big deal... to let sleeping dogs lie. In their eyes this was an isolated incident (granted it was comprised of several), leave it be & get over it.

Jill's statement that the reveal was 1000 times worse... how would you feel if something happened to you, you were convinced by parents & other adults that it's normal behavior. You are lucky! It could have been worse! Forgive & move on. Atonement has been reached. Then have people from all over the world tell you that your parents basically lied to you.

There was a lot of double talk, a lot of scripted speech, & a lot of confusion. I can almost guarantee that they never considered themselves victims until it all hit the fan.

*sigh* I feel for them. But I feel the most for a pair of young women who were sheltered & trained so well their idea of reality is forever skewed.

[fraurosena]

THIS... so much this! :clap:

[HereticHick]

Lol, Christian Cranberry, Modest Melon... thanks for the laugh during this horror show

Purposing Peach. Ministry Mauve.

[violynn]

THIS... so much this! :clap:

YES! Exactly! :worship:

[eh02]

The more I think about this whole mess, the less I am convinced they WEREN'T prepared for this. There is NO WAY the Duggars were not aware of the "rumors." Maybe they felt safe that the report wouldn't leak, but it doesn't always take a legal document for the truth to come out.

Most of us make our way through life slowly moving up a career ladder through a lifetime of hard work and education. When you have EARNED your lifestyle, you can use your skills and experience to rebuild when you hit a major setback. But everything Josh has is by a freak stroke of luck. He has no education, no skills...he was hired solely, 100% because there are people who are happy to pay him just to borrow his name. Now, his name is a liability.

I just get more and more convinced that he'll do a Jon Gosselin. I bet he will be totally unrecognizable (and divorced) before long.

If there's anything Josh has learned from his dad, it's to always find a way to squeeze a dollar out of any situation life throws at you. I would not be surprised if he was the one to write a tell-all book. His family probably already hates his guts and will resent him forever for putting an end to their "comfortable lifestyle."

[SassyPants]

The more I think about this whole mess, the less I am convinced they WEREN'T prepared for this. There is NO WAY the Duggars were not aware of the "rumors." Maybe they felt safe that the report wouldn't leak, but it doesn't always take a legal document for the truth to come out.

Most of us make our way through life slowly moving up a career ladder through a lifetime of hard work and education. When you have EARNED your lifestyle, you can use your skills and experience to rebuild when you hit a major setback. But everything Josh has is by a freak stroke of luck. He has no education, no skills...he was hired solely, 100% because there are people who are happy to pay him just to borrow his name. Now, his name is a liability.

I just get more and more convinced that he'll do a Jon Gosselin. I bet he will be totally unrecognizable (and divorced) before long.

If there's anything Josh has learned from his dad, it's to always find a way to squeeze a dollar out of any situation life throws at you. I would not be surprised if he was the one to write a tell-all book. His family probably already hates his guts and will resent him forever for putting an end to their "comfortable lifestyle."

I agree that this is going to fracture the family and I also think that Josh will write the first tell all. He does have the most to tell.

When people work through a process from birth, to schooling, to maturation and jobs, they are building a base. These kids were only given the responsibilities within the compound but none of the freedoms that ITRW accompany growth and responsibilities. They could not build bases because it seems all they were doing was menial tasks to lighten the parents' loads-

The Duggar parents failed at so many things, but mostly because they never parented or saw the kids as 19 individuals. When one cried out for help, he was ignored for a year...but be damned sure another brother was added during that time frame.

It is developmentally inappropriate and damaging to treat and parent a 14yo the same as you would a 1 yo.

JB and M did almost everything wrong, but the fact that they kept adding more kids when they could not adequately care for the ones they already had, is unconscionable.

I also think the audience forgets. Right now, the Duggars present as worldly and up-to-date. They live in a nice place, have all the trappings, are attractive and use current lingo, but think back 10 years. Things were very different pre -TLC and TTH. Unfortunately, all that old pathology still lurks under the current, fake facade.

[violynn]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion of JB & M, also Jill/Jessa working to protect Josh. Now, I could see this when the story first broke two weeks ago, but by the time they scheduled to interviews with Megyn Kelly, the writing was already on the wall for Josh. He's done for. There is nothing anyone could have said to redeem him enough to get his political 'career', his high profile job, standing as Fundie Prince or reputation back. So what really was the interview supposed to accomplish?

Saving the $how. If not 19Kids&C then the 2Brides show. Gotta redeem JB and Mchelle at all costs. Those speaking engagements, book deals have got to be worth some decent money even when the $how$ fall through. I don't think they'll be able to pull it off. Maybe some of the fundies will still invite them, IF JB turns this into the "liberal media/illegal records/turning to Gawwwd saved us" platform they'll probably have jobs for years still.

I'm more concerned what happens when the cameras are gone for good. There are two very pissed off, stressed out parents, Mchelle still on edge because she doesn't have an infant to hold, and a lot of bewildered little kids not understanding wtf has happened to turn their world upside down. I am willing to bet the howlers, lost girls and littles didn't even know about the Josh debacle. The rod will come back out, and things will just get worse.

This is just so enfuriatingly sad for those children, and all the other children who are suffering the same life, and worse.

[Jdawg]

I remember the Amish story and the community forgiveness aspect was remarkable. Thanks for sharing your perspective on this Violynn, and I am so sorry for what you went through. I imagine there is no rush to forgive something like that. In your own time. There's no "should" involved.

I'm sorry, but you can't honestly think the Amish are any better than the Duggars in possibly forcing forgiveness/ group think. I grew up in Amish country and don't feel it's fair that they get a pass just because they're so "quaint" and industrious. I've thought about the similarities between the Duggars and Amish for a long time.

This all hit me one snowy day when I drove past the conservative Mennonite (I know, not Amish) school and saw the kids frolicking and sledding in the snow. Then I noticed the girls were all wearing skirts, OVER THEIR HEAVY SNOWSUITS! WTF...I began to realize that despite how much my town respected our conservative Mennonite and Amish neighbors, things were not quite so innocuous and how differently the girls were treated from a young age, made to be ashamed of their bodies.

Amish women are repressed with absolutely no choice but to be baby machines and their schools are hardly better than SOTDRT. They differ in the Duggars in that they do get a rumspringa and can choose to leave, but as I saw happen with a young man in my community who left, he was shunned by his entire family and former Amish friends and suffered with his choice for many years.

Granted, the Amish are not politically active, nor are they trying to convert everyone to their way of life, but they are a patriarchal Christian cult just like the Duggar family. Sure, it's wonderful that they collectively forgave the shooter, but just how much "free will" really exists in that community? Especially for the girls. You cannot say that what they did was true forgiveness and contrast that by saying the Duggar girls are brainwashed to say they forgave Josh, when both sets of people are controlled and indoctrinated by the male headships in their family/community.

[Swamptribe]

And of course that is something Jessa would know off of the top of her head. I mean, EVERYONE knows that In Touch is involved in porn, the same way EVERYONE knows that it's illegal to make a FOIA request when it involves minors. Jessa became smart all of a sudden. Jill was her usual not so bright self.

I swear, back in April, Jessa did an interview with In Touch. We had a copy of it at work, she was going on about how she wasn't pregnant yet and they were going to look into fertility treatments, which their religious beliefs were against. Have to see if I can find the copy and confirm which magazine it was. May still be in the break-room.

I swear, back in April, Jessa did a

[violynn]

I agree that this is going to fracture the family and I also think that Josh will write the first tell all. He does have the most to tell.

When people work through a process from birth, to schooling, to maturation and jobs, they are building a base. These kids were only given the responsibilities within the compound but none of the freedoms that ITRW accompany growth and responsibilities. They could not build bases because it seems all they were doing was menial tasks to lighten the parents' loads-

The Duggar parents failed at so many things, but mostly because they never parented or saw the kids as 19 individuals. When one cried out for help, he was ignored for a year...but be damned sure another brother was added during that time frame.

It is developmentally inappropriate and damaging to treat and parent a 14yo the same as you would a 1 yo.

JB and M did almost everything wrong, but the fact that they kept adding more kids when they could not adequately care for the ones they already had, is unconscionable.

I also think the audience forgets. Right now, the Duggars present as worldly and up-to-date. They live in a nice place, have all the trappings, are attractive and use current lingo, but think back 10 years. Things were very different pre -TLC and TTH. Unfortunately, all that old pathology still lurks under the current, fake facade.

This, absolutely. :worship:

[nokidsmom]

The more I think about this whole mess, the less I am convinced they WEREN'T prepared for this. There is NO WAY the Duggars were not aware of the "rumors." Maybe they felt safe that the report wouldn't leak, but it doesn't always take a legal document for the truth to come out.

I have been wondering about this as well. At first, I thought they were completely taken by surprise, that they were not prepared for any discovery. But now, after hearing that rumors have been swirling around for some time, they had to have known, somehow, at the back of their heads, that there was a chance it could happen. Reports were out there. They had to have known that they had pissed people off and that maybe someday someone might go after them. Because I am thinking that somewhere JB or J'chelle or maybe even Josh made someone very angry. But JB is arrogant. I am guessing that arrogance blinded him to the possibility or if it happened, that he could deal with it (take care of it in Duggar-speak) cry "persecution!" or sue or bribe or something.

At this point, as more comes out, I am scratching my head that they thought they could play the "wholesome Christian family", rail against LBGT legislation with these huge skeletons in their closet and not have them discovered for all the world to see.

[lizbeth]

Man, can you imagine growing up with your parents telling you to lock your bedroom door at night to keep out the molesters????

I grew up being told to get dressed in my closet because my dad "might" put cameras in my bedroom and that I had to lock my bedroom door at all times to keep a sociopathic sister from doing all kinds of screwed up things to me and my belongings...and if I forgot to lock the door, it was *my* fault if anything happened. Now, my dad never did anything of -that- nature to me to I'm aware of, but it's definitely a really terrible way to not only grow up but just live in general. Constantly paranoid, never able to let down your guard because you can't trust half of your family members to not do something terrible to you for the mere reason that you exist, being told no one values you enough to stick up for you because it's easier just to appease the monsters in your family.

I hate some of the memories this situation brings up.

[lizbeth]

Now that someone mentioned it, I would be willing to bet money that the Duggars do wind up successfully suing *somebody*, not because it was illegal to release the report, but because the minors' identities were not adequately concealed.

[eh02]

When people work through a process from birth, to schooling, to maturation and jobs, they are building a base. These kids were only given the responsibilities within the compound but none of the freedoms that ITRW accompany growth and responsibilities. They could not build bases because it seems all they were doing was menial tasks to lighten the parents' loads-

The Duggar parents failed at so many things, but mostly because they never parented or saw the kids as 19 individuals. When one cried out for help, he was ignored for a year...but be damned sure another brother was added during that time frame.

They didn't fail - they did exactly what they intended. They set the kids up so the only way they could succeed is if they remained within the community. It's no accident.

My parents were very, very conservative and never did ANY of this shit to me. Even when I ended up disagreeing with them on basically everything they believed, when I didn't want to go to church anymore, when I had sex and got into trouble...they loved me FOR who I was, not in spite of it. And they never saw me as an extension of themselves, so they did not have a problem with me being "different." I can respect my parents' beliefs even when I disagree with them because they were not forced on me. They have supported me 100% in what *I* think is right for me, not what THEY think is right for me.

But the Jkids never had a choice, and they certainly don't have anyone telling them that they will support whatever choices they feel are best for them even if it's not what their parents want. Like you said, the Duggars NEVER have seen their children as individuals. Everything is experienced as one family unit, which is what sets kids in families like this up for abuse. They feel such a strong obligation to protect the family that they will ignore their own needs. JB+M should be publicly shamed. The things they have done to their children (and with a smile on their face) are HORRIBLE. I really hope all of the kids are in therapy, especially the ones who are having kids themselves now.

They don't shelter the kids to protect them. That's the biggest lie of them all. It's to cripple them, to make sure they stay afraid and powerless. "You can't go out into the world, because nobody else will protect you. People want to hurt you. But not us, we keep you safe!" Yep...that's a cult.

[nokidsmom]

Re: Josh, he is in for a tough haul. He has no education, no real life work experience, his political aspirations are done for. He's known as a child molester something that is considered amongst the lowest of the low in our society. It didn't have to be this way had his parents handled things appropriately. By keeping the situation in the family and away from the ebil civil authorities, they set him up for this discovery and for things to come crashing down.

He's going to have to lay very low for a long time. JB will have to help him out, maybe give him some job in one of his businesses or maybe he ends up doing work at Gothard HQ, those are the only two employers that I can see will accept him. Whatever he does, it will have to be behind the scenes in some office or something.

I can only imagine what Anna is going through now. I know she was sheltered and uneducated, being raised in an ATI family where she would have no idea of child molestation or that she was unwittingly marrying one. Because I am pretty certain that Josh's "sins" were not fully explained and couched heavily in Duggar-spin. I do feel sorry for her. She may not divorce him but things are never going to be the same for her.

[HereticHick]

Free Israel Dillard. He's less than 6 months old and his mom views him as a potential (or probable, if she believes the 2/3rd statistic she dreamed up) child molester.

Meanwhile, I'm going to hop on the DC metro now. If some guy sticks his hand up my dress for a few seconds, no big deal, right?? Especially if he's a Christian. :?

[violynn]

I'm sorry, but you can't honestly think the Amish are any better than the Duggars in possibly forcing forgiveness/ group think. I grew up in Amish country and don't feel it's fair that they get a pass just because they're so "quaint" and industrious. I've thought about the similarities between the Duggars and Amish for a long time.

This all hit me one snowy day when I drove past the conservative Mennonite (I know, not Amish) school and saw the kids frolicking and sledding in the snow. Then I noticed the girls were all wearing skirts, OVER THEIR HEAVY SNOWSUITS! WTF...I began to realize that despite how much my town respected our conservative Mennonite and Amish neighbors, things were not quite so innocuous and how differently the girls were treated from a young age, made to be ashamed of their bodies.

Amish women are repressed with absolutely no choice but to be baby machines and their schools are hardly better than SOTDRT. They differ in the Duggars in that they do get a rumspringa and can choose to leave, but as I saw happen with a young man in my community who left, he was shunned by his entire family and former Amish friends and suffered with his choice for many years.

Granted, the Amish are not politically active, nor are they trying to convert everyone to their way of life, but they are a patriarchal Christian cult just like the Duggar family. Sure, it's wonderful that they collectively forgave the shooter, but just how much "free will" really exists in that community? Especially for the girls. You cannot say that what they did was true forgiveness and contrast that by saying the Duggar girls are brainwashed to say they forgave Josh, when both sets of people are controlled and indoctrinated by the male headships in their family/community.

Oh, I wasn't praising the Amish or holding them up as some sort of paragon, and I definitely wasn't comparing them in any way to the Duggars.

What I said was that I understood forgiveness in a biblical sense after watching the newscasts of the Amish School Shooting and the Amish reaction. I for the first time saw what that line in the Lord's Prayer actually meant. I'd always recited it by rote as all good little Sunday School attendees must. Understanding that the line meant that I, praying that Prayer, was asking God to forgive me in the same way I have forgiven those who 'trespass' against me.

Being a woman who by that time had led a pretty rebellious early 20's lifestyle, that floored me. And I've been much more thoughtful in the way I 'forgive' now. Also in the way I handle my children when one has done some 'injury' to one of her siblings. I was always told I had to 'forgive' my brothers if they apologized to me as a kid, and I always mumbled it out, sure, but mostly I just did that so I wasn't in trouble.

Sorry to make a short story long there...But yeah, No. Never said the Amish were real forgivers and the Duggars were brainwashed. Anyone, by definition who is raised hard-core in a religion as a child is going to be some form of brainwashed though. Childhood is where we learn a lot of our lifelong beliefs. What we're taught before puberty pretty much becomes TRUTH as far as we consider it and only learning to think critically and be willing to open to new ideas and concepts gives us the ability to turn from those embedded beliefs and search for new truths.

[nokidsmom]

I grew up being told to get dressed in my closet because my dad "might" put cameras in my bedroom and that I had to lock my bedroom door at all times to keep a sociopathic sister from doing all kinds of screwed up things to me and my belongings...and if I forgot to lock the door, it was *my* fault if anything happened. Now, my dad never did anything of -that- nature to me to I'm aware of, but it's definitely a really terrible way to not only grow up but just live in general. Constantly paranoid, never able to let down your guard because you can't trust half of your family members to not do something terrible to you for the mere reason that you exist, being told no one values you enough to stick up for you because it's easier just to appease the monsters in your family.

I hate some of the memories this situation brings up.

Sorry that you have to live with that worrying about what your own family will do. I hope you are out of that situation now, it sounds like you are.

[SassyPants]

I know a large, Italian, devout Catholic family. The parents were educated and the dad was a professional worker. They had a dozen kids. The last child was special needs...bingo no more children.

There's always a work around the rules.

The Duggars should have engaged a work-a-round decades ago.

I doubt God is more impressed with a family that had 19 children that they barely cared for vs a 2 child family in which the parents were loving and engaged in the child rearing process.

[violynn]

I grew up being told to get dressed in my closet because my dad "might" put cameras in my bedroom and that I had to lock my bedroom door at all times to keep a sociopathic sister from doing all kinds of screwed up things to me and my belongings...and if I forgot to lock the door, it was *my* fault if anything happened. Now, my dad never did anything of -that- nature to me to I'm aware of, but it's definitely a really terrible way to not only grow up but just live in general. Constantly paranoid, never able to let down your guard because you can't trust half of your family members to not do something terrible to you for the mere reason that you exist, being told no one values you enough to stick up for you because it's easier just to appease the monsters in your family.

I hate some of the memories this situation brings up.

I am so sorry you grew up like this. I hope you're well out of it all now and will find strength, comfort and peace.

[FJismyheadship]

Has this been brought up yet?

Is it possible that the hearing with DHS was because Josh was placed on the Child Abuse And Maltreatment Central Registry (which basically means DHS will keep an eye on him forever unless they close the case or Josh requests to be taken off of it after a year of everyone doing everything properly and no more allegations or reports. It also means he can't get a job working with children or volunteer in any capacity dealing with children) Is it possible that Josh was either fighting it, or he was requesting to be taken off of it?

Any insights?

[lizbeth]

I always screw up the multi-quotes, but thank you nokidsmom and violynnkelly. : )

[singsingsing]

Has this been brought up yet?

Is it possible that the hearing with DHS was because Josh was placed on the Child Abuse And Maltreatment Central Registry (which basically means DHS will keep an eye on him forever unless they close the case or Josh requests to be taken off of it after a year of everyone doing everything properly and no more allegations or reports. It also means he can't get a job working with children or volunteer in any capacity dealing with children) Is it possible that Josh was either fighting it, or he was requesting to be taken off of it?

Any insights?

It has been brought up, and I think the answer was basically, "Maybe, but nobody knows."

[Free Them All]

I laughed when Jill said "we love the production crew". Of course you love them.

Jim the sound man and all of the rest of them protected you in your little bubble of a world. Jim told us many times that the Duggars are the "real deal". They were not about to tell that you are a sect of the Gothard cult or that you practice the politics of hate toward all of those that are not like you.