Lena Dunham vs Josh Duggar

[PegBundyOfFundies]

I dont believe for a second that Lena "found" the pebbles in her sisters vagina at age 7. I wholeheartedly believe she did it herself and then told her mom because she was proud of work, but knew it was wrong. What one year old has good enough manual dexterity and fine motor skills to shove not one, but several rocks into herself after taking her diaper off? Then the whole bribing kisses with candy thing, and the masturbating in bed beside her preteen sister when she was a teen. Lena Dunham is as much as a sexual predator IMO as Josh, but like one poster said, shes on HBO and not a channel that depends on advertising. And the folks that subscribe to HBO to watch Girls probably really didnt care. Im also disgusted with her parents, how did they not see any of the weirdness between Lena and Grace and immediately do something. After the rock thing happened the mother shouldve thought hard about what just happened and sought mental health assistance for Lena.

[jerichojones]

I was thinking of this myself the other day. I was really pissed off last year when people were apologising for Lena's behaviour. The incident from when she was 7 was inappropriate but she's done so much shitty stuff to her sister outside of that. The masturbating in bed, bribing her sister with money to give her kisses (which iirc continued until Lena was like 16-17), outting her sister to their parents and various other things. Then when this broke about Josh, I came down, but also found myself thinking about how his strange upbringing came into it and how we don't know what impact that had... I wasn't excusing his behaviour because you simply cannot, but I was trying to find justifications for it, and that's something I didn't do last year with Lena, when there are things in her own childhood that could explain her fixation on sexual behaviour (have you seen her father's art?). It made me question myself a little as well.

Fact is, both did shitty things. Like has been said, Josh was older and ought to have known better. With what happened with the Duggar's, I put a massive percentage of the blame on JB & M because they did the wrong thing by all their children. They did the wrong thing by the girls by letting Josh stay in the home and not getting them counselling (because who actually believes they did), and they did the wrong thing by Josh because he should have been given real help.

And the fact is, Josh's upbringing probably was a major factor in why josh did what he did. Lena's upbringing probably is a big part of why she did what she did. Those backgrounds, of course, don't excuse the behaviour, but maybe help to explain it.

[shedemei]

In the book Lena explains that her sister Grace was scared to sleep alone and so ended up sleeping in Lena's bed every night and so if Lena wanted to masturbate she had to do so with Grace in the bed. If I remember correctly, she always waited until Grace was asleep to masturbate. Should Lena have masturbated with Grace in the bed with her? Probably not, but it sounds like she didn't have a choice and was doing so DESPITE the fact that Grace was there, not because she was there.

She didn't have a choice about masturbating in bed while her sister was there? Of course she did, she always had the choice to not masturbate. It's not likes it's involuntary.

Get up and go to the bathroom. Or tell your sister she can't sleep in your bed, tough shit. FFS.

[VapingindaCity]

I thought the one year old has her diaper off? I dunno I haven't read her book only a few excerpts from it some time ago. So I'm not going to remember. . I dont care for her.. i dont think she is a good writer ...

I dont think that bribe with candy to get a kiss alone is so bad, I knew lots of kids like that, but when u couple with all the shit she used to do yeah kinda nuts... but again the way she wrote it was trying too hard to be weird, quirky and misunderstood, especially that passage ...

Honestly I think we need to hear more from Lena cuz that is truly kinda disturbing behavior, and she never explained why she did it, especially once she got older.. I think the fact she sees her lil sister as an extension of herself is very telling . She should see her as her sister, not see her as lena... when she greets her is he greeting lena or her sister? When she did those things was that done to her sister or lena? Also not sure if she outgrew the behavior or if she got any therapy. Or if she did those things only to her sister. .. I defy see her as unhinged.

I would love to hear how her sister feels about it, and I mean longer than tweets she sent out addresing it...

Wow I never bother to check her parent arts but yeah wow ... I defy agree that the environmental Josh grew up in made the problem worse, way worse

But comparing Josh to lena is just silly, honestly is just Fundie Propaganda. They both have problems. ..

Like Comparing MJ to R.Kelly, we have proof that R.Kelly is a Pedo , but He's still making music, people barely remember the trial. MJ will always be Wacko Jacko a pedo, who ended his career as a pubchline and barely made new music.

Sadly some people are just too talented or charismatic that people will overlook most criminal offences. . Hell u dont even have to be Famous for people to deminish sexual abuse..

The only difference btw josh & lena is that she didnt get on a high horse and judge non Jewish people.

Josh is very visible in the Fundie world and he used that working for the RFC, where he labeled entire community pedophiles and etc ..

Lest we Josh was a Christian when he did those things, this honestly might make Josh even a Bigger Celebrity. He will be remembered as a martyr, they lost their TV show but he has Jesus and he'd rather have Jesus any day!!! Like those baseball playing brothers who lost their TV show cuz things they had said against gays and gay Marriage

HUCKABEE is backing Josh cuz he is a Christian, but you should Google what he had to say about Roman Polanski.

FUNDIES r bringing up Lena cuz shes a Liberal, Democrat, Jewish? They are trying to change the Conversation .

[VapingindaCity]

Im pretty sure if lena said no u cant sleep in my Bed her mom would had made her anyways. If she went to the bathroom she proly would had woken up everyone ...

Especially since Lots of parents stay on patrol after kids go to bed.

I dunno its her bed, I don't understand how she masturbating in the same bed is abuse. I thought losts of people did that. Especially people that got sent to camp, hell even some adults. Might show u have no boundaries, or inappropriate, but its not like she was touching her sister while she did it...

Either way I still think that Comparing them both is silly ... Fundies want to make it an us Vs. Them Issue , cuz lena is a so called Liberal or maybe cuz she's Jewish I dunno... either way it's Changing the Convo.

[JChelle's Perm]

Up until recently, I thought Lena's actions ended with the stuff she did at 7 (in which case, I'd say that it's just little kids being curious and clueless) and had no idea about the other stuff she did as a teenager. Yeah, that stuff was way wrong too.

The reason Josh supporters keep bringing her up is to make it look like the people calling him out are just doing it because he's a Christian and Christians are supposed to be so prosecuted in the US. Help, help, the religious majority is being oppressed, and if this wasn't the case Lena would have had just as much backlash!

Here's the thing, at least how I view it. Much of the backlash has to do with his beliefs, and I don't think that's a bad thing. The Duggars were put on a pedestal as a wholesome, kind Christian family who could be a bastion of traditional morality, and yet they hid Josh's actions for years. Josh himself worked against LGBT folks saying that gays will all hurt our kids and cause the downfall of society, and the while hiding the fact that he had hurt a number of kids. It's not just what he did that was downright vile, it was the context that made it that much worse.

[lilah]

I'm not a fan of Lena. I especially think it's gross how she is still exploiting her sister by sharing these stories to get atention. She's a hypocrite for joking about being a sexual predator and then getting offended that people agreeing with her.

But I think there is more outrage against the Duggars than dunham because of the schadenfruede angle. There is a certain satisfaction in revealing thst the Duggars really are shitty parents and total hypocrites. Josh has made it his life's work to advocate for "family values" (provided that they are married heterosexual single income christian families) and to systematically destroy the rights of lgbt familes. Michelle accused Transgened people of being child molesters.

[MPC]

I dunno its her bed, I don't understand how she masturbating in the same bed is abuse. I thought losts of people did that. Especially people that got sent to camp, hell even some adults. Might show u have no boundaries, or inappropriate, but its not like she was touching her sister while she did it...

Either way I still think that Comparing them both is silly ... Fundies want to make it an us Vs. Them Issue , cuz lena is a so called Liberal or maybe cuz she's Jewish I dunno... either way it's Changing the Convo.

What Lena did is disgusting, but her age when she did that seems normal for a 7 year old, whereas Josh was 14 and should've known better. And masturbating with her sister in the same room... that thing happens more often than you think, especially with male siblings sharing a bedroom and/or a bed. (Not every kid can sneak off and get off in the privacy of a bathroom.) I do think Lena crossed the line and continually humiliated and embarrass her sister with those childhood recollections. But never did she do anything like Josh Duggar did, where she waited for her sister to fall asleep and take advantage of her.

She does need therapy. Yes, she has a memoir out but you don't need to recount every single thing you did growing up. Her popularity and fame bewilders me... she was well-connected, churned out a self-indulgent indie film, and then got a series on HBO because she's buddies with Judd Apatow.

[The Duggar's Mohel]

I will say, Lena Dunham creeped me out just as much as the Duggars did well before she said she fooled around with her sister, I'd like to never see her on TV again just as much as the Duggars.

[Ella]

Asking seriously, what's up with religious Christians and Mormons sharing beds with siblings? Is that a thing, and why? I keep reading about it being done.

[lascuba]

Asking seriously, what's up with religious Christians and Mormons sharing beds with siblings? Is that a thing, and why? I keep reading about it being done.

Not just a religious thing. Multiple kids + limited money/space = shared beds. The Duggars don't have the money excuse--they're just creepy control freaks--but siblings sharing beds isn't generally a weird thing.

[Ella]

Where I live, religious Jews tend to have a lot of kids, and each sleeps separately in a single (not a double) bed. Some of the child beds are especially narrow, and/or they use bunk beds with or without a trundle that they put back in the morning (three beds in one space).

Even married couples have two beds, one for each of them, that they push together or separate depending on the time of month.

So sibling bed sharing does seem different to me. (Not talking about cosleeping with a baby; I have no problem with that.)

[moriah]

I saw the comparisons between Josh and Lena as well, and it was the first time I'd actually ever heard of her.

1) 1 year old vs 7 year old -- I think that's definitely a "teachable moment", if it happened as said and the mother was aware. I do wonder how a child under 2 could put foreign objects in the vaginal vault, though in reading medical literature apparently it does happen. An appropriate response would have been, "Now, your vagina is private, just like your sisters is private. The only time we should be looking or touching her private parts is when we're changing her diaper, and that's because it helps keep her clean and healthy. The only time anyone else other than you should be touching your private place is to keep you clean or healthy, too." Establishing those boundaries might have stopped the later boundary pushing.

2) 14-year-old vs five-year-old -- The kid needs help. Get your kid help. NOW.

[SnazzyNazzy]

They do have one thing in common. They are both attention-whoring asshats.

[deaja]

I think Lena abused her sister and I find her to be disgusting. But the difference between a fiction writer for a show that pushes the envelope (from what I've heard, I haven't seen it) and a reality tv star representing wholesome family values is huge.

[lostfemme]

Sorry fundies, you cannot prosecute a 7-year-old for the same crimes as a 14-year-old.

That said, I find parallels between Josh/Jim Bob and Lena, in that they are both gaping wells of empty narcissism.

Lena is so afraid of being irrelevant that she will say anything, wear anything, do anything to stay newsworthy, damn anyone around her who might be affected by it. She's a toad and a tool who writes like a 12 year old shocking her 8th grade class. Her show is fundamentally boring.

Josh/Jim Bob operate by the same standard. They are essentially boring people who never developed any skills or character, so they pimp out their cult and it's "standards" as something of interest. They will allow anything to be filmed to stay in the media's eye - Anna giving birth on the toilet, the RV suffering a sewage build up, every little detail of Michelle's gynecological situation, unsanitary food practices and all the nauseating processed food they eat. They, like Lena, are devoid of any true content except as a freak show.

I tend to feel more disgust for the Duggars since their devotion to their product has resulted in 19 children without skills beyond household chores (and not even the simplest things like balancing a family budget for their girl children.) They insist on complete ignorance of basic information for their children as any piece of outside knowledge could lead them away from the true cause - making the Duggars a multi-generational brand of perfect Christian living (with Pa Duggar Jim Bob always making the largest cut.)

Lena is an irritating distraction. The Duggars are keeping Quiverfull families poor and ignorant, living in trailers with dozens of kids, in the name of their brand of Christianity where if god blesses them, TLC will build them a house, too! And naturally, all men's sins are forgiven while women bear all the causes of sin.

[Seven]

I hate how defenders always try to compare something that has no relation in order to deflect. HBO is not TLC. Josh is not redeemed because of Lena. They are both disgusting, and neither should be in the public eye.

[mpheels]

Not just a religious thing. Multiple kids + limited money/space = shared beds. The Duggars don't have the money excuse--they're just creepy control freaks--but siblings sharing beds isn't generally a weird thing.

My mom and her sister shared a bed growing up (1950's and 60's). They're 7 years apart in age, and don't have other siblings. The shared a room because their house only had two bedrooms, and they shared a double bed because it was the bed my grandparents could afford. They were run of the mill (non-fundie) Baptists, but that didn't have any bearing on their sleeping arrangements.

[Alicja]

I think that Lena and Josh are similar in the fact that they're obvious narcissists. Maybe not clinical narcissists, but they definitely have traits.

In my opinion, a lot of Lena's other behaviors that were described in those passages were waaaaaay more problematic than the rocks incident, i.e bribing her sister for kisses and viewing her as property. Lena Dunham in general is an awful person, and I have no idea why so many feminists put her whitewashed version of feminism on a pedestal. :roll:

[Boogalou]

Someone someone fix the topic of this thread? It's driving me insane. It's Dunham, not Durham.

!	{TEXT1}:
	If you would like something changed please report it so the mods see it. We cannot read every post in every thread and it is easy for us to miss stuff. Thank you!

[shedemei]

Now it's "Dumham," which I keep misreading as dumb ham. :) Nonsensical but funny, not going to report it. ;)

[alba]

The thing that bothers me about Josh's supporters pulling out this comparison is the straw-man nature of it. I'm a feminist, a liberal, and an atheist, and I barely even know who Lena Dunham is. She's just not on my radar. I certainly didn't know any of the stories about her and her sister in her memoir till evangelical Christians started calling out the so-called hypocrisy of liberals and feminists, as though we're some kind of hive vagina (Oh. Wait ... :lol:). I'm not condemning Josh's actions because he's a Christian, but because HE MOLESTED CHILDREN. His beliefs are relevant, but it's not the Christian nature of them; I don't care that he prays to Jesus, I care that he's a hate-mongering misogynistic homophobe and transphone who actively campaigns to take away people's rights by claiming that all LGBT people commit the very crimes HE committed. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't pay him the attention that I do, and not only would his behaviour be getting less coverage, but I wouldn't even know about it.

[HarleyQuinn]

Boogalou"]If you would like something changed please report it so the mods see it. We cannot read every post in every thread and it is easy for us to miss stuff.

Thank you!

To be fair, I figured if I would've PM'd a mod right in the middle of this molesting madness for a title correction, I would've been sent to the prayer closet. So I decided to share my convictions in the thread instead. :lol:

[LadyBlue]

Not just a religious thing. Multiple kids + limited money/space = shared beds. The Duggars don't have the money excuse--they're just creepy control freaks--but siblings sharing beds isn't generally a weird thing.

Not religious (well, we went to church on Sundays and my mother hates when I "take the Lord's name in vain", but that's about it) and my parents made my younger sister and I share a bed. I have NO clue why. We had a perfectly nice set of bunk beds in our shared room, then my parents bought a king size bed, moved their queen into the spare bedroom, moved the double into our room and got rid of our beds. I hated it and moved myself into the spare room except when we had company. When we moved towns, our new house had 4 bedrooms and we each got separate rooms and brand new single beds.

My eldest boys shared a bed for a few years. At first we didn't have enough space and when we did, they had bunk beds, but they'd both sleep on the bottom bunk.

[moriah]

Not religious (well, we went to church on Sundays and my mother hates when I "take the Lord's name in vain", but that's about it) and my parents made my younger sister and I share a bed. I have NO clue why. We had a perfectly nice set of bunk beds in our shared room, then my parents bought a king size bed, moved their queen into the spare bedroom, moved the double into our room and got rid of our beds. I hated it and moved myself into the spare room except when we had company. When we moved towns, our new house had 4 bedrooms and we each got separate rooms and brand new single beds.

My eldest boys shared a bed for a few years. At first we didn't have enough space and when we did, they had bunk beds, but they'd both sleep on the bottom bunk.

I probably went to church less than you did, and my mother herself uses the Lord's name in vain, but I don't think that had a whole lot of impact on her decision about our sleeping arrangements.

When I was very small, they could only afford a two-bedroom, and I slept on the bottom of a bunk bed set, while my sister, 9 years older than me, slept on the top bunk.

When I was 3, we moved in with my grandparents, who only had a 3 bedroom house. As my sister was approaching adolescence, they felt she needed her own room. So I slept in the same bed as my mother, and my sis got her own room, until I was about 5. Then they bought a daybed that was in the living room, which is where I slept until my sister moved out of the house and got married. Given my grandfather liked to watch TV at all hours of the night, I really think the daybed thing gave me my current sleep disorder. But my sister really dd deserve her privacy.