HBO Documentary: Going Clear

[Peas n carrots]

I know there are a few other LRH buffs on here. A documentary based on Lawrence Wright's Going Clear will premier on HBO March 29th.

http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/going-clear#/

*didn't break as I do not think HBO will care

A very interesting interview with the filmaker, Lawrence Wright, and former church members Mike Rinder and Paul Haggis (quick warning - it is a long discussion but if you have any interest in the COS it is a highly interesting watch)

http://timestalks.com/detail-event.php?event=alex_gibney,_paul_haggis,_lawrence_wright

*didn't break as I do not think the NYT will care

I'm planning on getting together with friends and doing an LRH double feature night...Battlefield Earth and Going Clear! :lol:

[16strong]

For anyone interested, Operation Clambake is a great place to read about Scientology. TONS of former members.

[keen23]

I'm not quite sure who's the bigger fraud- L Ron or Joseph Smith.

[calimojo]

The book was fascinating. Tons of detail and it just leaves you scratching your head as to why people bought into this mess

[Cleopatra7]

The book was fascinating. Tons of detail and it just leaves you scratching your head as to why people bought into this mess

Pre-Internet, I think that people were attracted to Scientology because it superficially resembled psychology and promised practical answers to everyday problems like communication and self-confidence. I saw an old episode of the Phil Donahue show about Scientology on YouTube and that's how it comes off. Now that the OTIIII levels have been leaked to the Internet and everyone knows about Xenu and clams, I don't see how anyone can take it seriously. I think that like many fundamentalist groups that scientologists are simply instructed to restrict what they see and read so they don't find out about the OTIIII levels.

[ViolaSebastian]

I'm not quite sure who's the bigger fraud- L Ron or Joseph Smith.

Hmm...I'm going to go with Joseph Smith, because he actively worked to obscure the truth from people and used it to manipulate people into doing his bidding. At least L. Ron admitted that the whole thing was a scam from the very beginning and he was out to make money.

[SoybeanQueen]

I just re-read the book to remind myself why I want to see the documentary. Even as a second read, I found myself feeling completely blown away by some of it.

My favorite LRH saying, that I had forgotten about, is "truth is what is true for you." I've seen it quoted in various ways, all with the same general meaning. Anyway, that should be the response to their anti-psychiatry rants. Sorry, that's not my truth!

[Peas n carrots]

The book was fascinating. Tons of detail and it just leaves you scratching your head as to why people bought into this mess

I'm reading it right now. It's interesting how the COS has embellished LRH's biography but yet, LRH was quite the interesting character without all the embellishment.

In the NYT discussion Lawrence Wright states he used Paul Haggis in particular to highlight how intelligent, thoughtful people get sucked into these types of groups. Paul was by far not the only one to have had doubts along the way but continued to chug along as he had invested so much on personal and financial levels into the COS.

In addition to Operation Clambake I'm a big fan of the Underground Bunker blog

http://tonyortega.org/

[DGayle]

When I was a Scientologist, a guy I had a thing for got engaged to another Scientologist, but them called off the wedding after he found out she had used Prozac for a short time before she became a Scientologist.

[VodouDoll]

That book was really something. John Travolta comes across as a kind, sort of dim man who had the bad luck to get sucked into a cult. Tom Cruise comes off as an egomaniacal monster, using Sea Org slave labor to maintain his houses and take care of his cars and all. I'll never see one of his movies again. David Miscavage is probably a psychopath.

[Peas n carrots]

Is Shelly Miscavige still missing? I'll have to google around...I remember Leah Remini filing a missing person report for her but I can't recall if it was resolved or not.

[FloraKitty35]

I plan on watching Going Clear. I read the book. Other excellent sources about Scientology are the The Underground Bunker. It's Tony Ortega's website: http://tonyortega.org. He has a book about Paulette Cooper coming out in May. It's called the "Unbreakable Miss Lovely". Also, Karen de la Carrier's "Surviving Scientology" channel on You Tube is worth a look (she is the former wife of Heber Jentzsch, the President of Scientology), and there are Mark (Marty) Rathbun, Mike Rinder, and Marc Headley's respective blogs.

[FloraKitty35]

Is Shelly Miscavige still missing? I'll have to google around...I remember Leah Remini filing a missing person report for her but I can't recall if it was resolved or not.

It has been technically resolved, although Shelly Miscaviage hasn't been seen in public. As to Leah Remini's missing person report, it is a closed case, because someone from the LAPD contacted Shelly Miscavige.

[FloraKitty35]

A couple more persons of interest to check out are the Scientology critics Jamie DeWolf (He is the great grandson of L. Ron Hubbard. His grandfather was L. Ron Hubbard, Jr.) and Angry Gay Pope (he has a You Tube channel).

[August]

Pre-Internet, I think that people were attracted to Scientology because it superficially resembled psychology and promised practical answers to everyday problems like communication and self-confidence. I saw an old episode of the Phil Donahue show about Scientology on YouTube and that's how it comes off. Now that the OTIIII levels have been leaked to the Internet and everyone knows about Xenu and clams, I don't see how anyone can take it seriously. I think that like many fundamentalist groups that scientologists are simply instructed to restrict what they see and read so they don't find out about the OTIIII levels.

All the religions I can think of are based on equally ridiculous bullshit stories. It's just time which gives them a patina of less ridiculousness.

https://www.ted.com/talks/julia_sweeney ... anguage=en

[lilwriter85]

A couple more persons of interest to check out are the Scientology critics Jamie DeWolf (He is the great grandson of L. Ron Hubbard. His grandfather was L. Ron Hubbard, Jr.) and Angry Gay Pope (he has a You Tube channel).

I've read about Jamie DeWolf. There is also David Miscaviage's niece Jenna Miscaviage Hill, who runs a website for ex Scientology kids and another youtube channel to check out is Tory Christman's youtube channel under the name ToryMagoo44. Tory is an ex-Scientologist

[StellaMarie]

I am very excited about the documentary. I hope it helps me better understand the nonsense....

[August]

I've read about Jamie DeWolf. There is also David Miscaviage's niece Jenna Miscaviage Hill, who runs a website for ex Scientology kids and another youtube channel to check out is Tory Christman's youtube channel under the name ToryMagoo44. Tory is an ex-Scientologist

Did you see Tommy Davis left?

[DaffyDill]

There's another documentary coming to soon by Louis Theroux and the BBC. It's also based around "Going Clear" I think. Same ex-Scientologists assisting etc.

[Peas n carrots]

Did you see Tommy Davis left?

Tommy's situation is very hush hush. It appears he routed out so he's not being trailed like Marty Rathbun, but there are stories his wife was ill for a while and that is why they are out. Honestly, the more likely reason is David Miscavige was angry with him for any number of PR incidents.

If you need some lulz, enjoy this. (btw the Tommy Davis look-alike is Ramin Karimloo, who is playing Jean Valjean on Broadway right now). Wonder if he, Warwick Davis, Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant have been declared SP's?

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[FloraKitty35]

I've read about Jamie DeWolf. There is also David Miscaviage's niece Jenna Miscaviage Hill, who runs a website for ex Scientology kids and another youtube channel to check out is Tory Christman's youtube channel under the name ToryMagoo44. Tory is an ex-Scientologist[/quote

I've read Jenna Hill's book. I think Tory Christman posted a new video recently. I thought of couple of other sources: Jon Atack, he wrote a book called "A Piece of Blue Sky" and there's Russell Miller's biography of L. Ron Hubbard, "The Bare Faced Messiah". For a laugh (it's on Xenu.net) there is National Lampoon Magazine spoof of Scientology from 1989 "Diarrhetics".

[FloraKitty35]

Tommy's situation is very hush hush. It appears he routed out so he's not being trailed like Marty Rathbun, but there are stories his wife was ill for a while and that is why they are out. Honestly, the more likely reason is David Miscavige was angry with him for any number of PR incidents.

If you need some lulz, enjoy this. (btw the Tommy Davis look-alike is Ramin Karimloo, who is playing Jean Valjean on Broadway right now). Wonder if he, Warwick Davis, Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant have been declared SP's?

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I think Tommy Davis was treated differently than Rathbun or Rinder, because his mother and stepfather are devout, famous, and wealthy Scientologists (Anne Archer and Terry Jastrow) and he married into the Feshbach family (who are wealthy and influential Scientologists).

[FloraKitty35]

Another celebrity Scientologist who may have routed out is Lisa Marie Presley. She moved out of LA, where she has lived most of her life and the lyrics from her last album are critical of Scientology and interviews she is evasive about Scientology. However, she still has a link to CCHR (Citizens Commission on Human Rights) on her website. Priscilla Presley is still in and I don't know how in Danny, Riley and Benjamin Keough are.

[August]

One blog I was reading had a summary of Tommy. Maybe the guy who made going Clear? He has a whole series on the courses, done with Claire someone who was in the BBC Panorama special. Now I understand that vacant stare they have, and the shouting.

What kept me reading for hours last night was the 'ideal org' thing which seems like it's going to be the final nail in the coffin for the organisation. Apparently Miscavige had promised more levels of courses, but was having trouble delivering, so he said he'd deliver when every local group was as big as the flagship (St Hill?), but of course they couldn't do it because people know that it's not just a personality test, it's a cult, so he said the problem was that the buildings weren't big enough and once there were huge buildings then recruits would materialise to fill them. And so they're busily bankrupting the organisation to build 'ideal orgs'. It seems the way they do it is mve out of a big, well placed building they own to rented premises, then start fundrIsing to renovate the big building. Which doesn't go so well, as you can imagine.

[FaustianSlip]

Scientology has always reminded me of Mormonism with more aliens and less Jesus (well, and polygamy). Going Clear is a really excellent book, as is Jenna Miscavige Hill's book. Hers was particularly tragic, I thought, in that she was raised in this insanity and really had no other options- her family had been living a normal life in New Hampshire one day, and the next day her parents up and decided to join the Sea Org, dragging the kids down the rabbit hole with them. Scientology schools are basically a joke, so once a kid is really entrenched in that system, they have no real options besides joining the Sea Org themselves.

I completely agree that Going Clear paints a really damning picture of Tom Cruise. The way that Katie Holmes had to go about getting herself and their kid out of his clutches, coupled with the whole Nicole Kidman breakup, which sounds more and more as if it was at least partially engineered by Cruise's Scientology handlers when it became clear that Kidman was never going to go along with the Scientology stuff, goes a long way to corroborate a lot of what the book had to say about his personality and relationship with David Miscavige. The idea that the Church of Scientology was literally auditioning women to be his next girlfriend after he broke up with Kidman is just crazy, but the kind of crazy that I don't think is made up out of whole cloth.