HBO Documentary: Going Clear

[mirele]

Cruise claims that he didn't actually have dyslexia after all.

Cruise claims that Scientology's Study Tech (aka the Applied Scholastics program Co$ pushes into schools) fixed his problems. It's a false label because Scientology believes that it is part of psychiatrist's schemes to control humanity.

I went looking for Co$ documentation in handling dyslexia in Study Tech, and found this great article from a critical source: http://studytech.org/?page_id=19

I know the guy who owns and runs this website. His name is Dave Touretzky and he is a research professor at Carnegie Mellon. He has a Wikipedia entry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_S._Touretzky

If you should ever run across someone trying to get Study Tech into the schools (and trust me, Scientology is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS trying), he is the guy to contact.

[eri]

There aren't religious grounds. Scientology doesn't believe in differences between the sexes, as we're all souls with different bodies. They extend this to titles: everyone is Mr. and Sir regardless of gender. Sex isn't a big thing in Scientology except for reproduction. Church members can be separated from spouses and parents from children (including all at once) for years. They can be told who to marry and who to divorce, and believe strictly that marriage is n and one woman.

Not true. DGayle mentioned that women are treated differently (at least the sect(?) they were apart of). And it was either her or an ex-scientologist blogger I recently perused who said that the authority figures/incarnates are never women. I would believe that because I don't expect the old patterns of patriarchal society to die THAT easily.

[Howl]

I'm not too far into this book -- currently reading about L. Ron Hubbard's life -- and it is fascinating*. I never realized that he was in the same circle of sci fi writers as Isaac Asimov and Robert Heinlein. He was a hard core sci fi writer (in terms of output) and not a dabbler and was successful in supporting himself through his writing. Prior to that, he churned out copious amounts of pulp fiction.

Am just now getting into his crazy black magic/theosophy days in Hollywood.

*Fascinating reading, that is. L. Ron Hubbard is not a fascinating person or a particularly appealing one.

[kaschmit]

*Fascinating reading, that is. L. Ron Hubbard is not a fascinating person or a particularly appealing one.

I have to disagree with that one. Fascinating /= good or appealing. Hitler was fascinating. Hubbard is too. Kidnapping, freelove art houses, compulsive lying, visions of alien life during dental visits.... the list goes on. Hubbard was totally fascinating.

[Howl]

I have to disagree with that one. Fascinating /= good or appealing. Hitler was fascinating. Hubbard is too. Kidnapping, freelove art houses, compulsive lying, visions of alien life during dental visits.... the list goes on. Hubbard was totally fascinating.

OK, I could go for fascinating -- after all, I'm reading a book about him and the "religion" he founded. But NOT appealing, especially because of domestic violence against at least one of his wives (Sara). Reading about him being the commander of a sub chaser in the Navy during WWII and relentlessly dropping depth charges against a non-existent sub was a hoot, serial bigamy, Ordo Templi Orientis, Babylon Working, relentlessly pursuing women, a bazillion stories where he featured himself as a hero when in reality he was an inept blunderer. He was truly the ultimate psychological scammer.

I've got some dental work coming up over the next six months. In honor of Ron, Maybe I'll ask for hallucinogens or narcotics to make the process go smoother....what could possibly go wrong? :?

[Delilah]

We watched this documentary tonight as a family. I feel a little weirded out now. The music added to the creepiness. My teenager barely paid attention because she doesn't understand how anybody can join a cult. We told her that some pretty smart people got sucked into that cult, and then the cult sucked their money.

Did anybody else watch it tonight?

[CrazyCatLady]

I watched with my husband. He didn't know much sent Scientology and was totally horrified.

[Peas n carrots]

I won't see it until next weekend as I'm getting together with friends to watch and we couldn't make it work this weekend.

[Cleopatra7]

I watched it with my mom. She doesn't know much about Scientology and was horrified that all the abuses could occur without the government doing anything about it. I told her that anything is permitted in the US if you have a "sincerely held belief." :roll:

[Burris]

I haven't paid all that much attention to Scientology. I know the basics, sure, such as that the CoS recruits celebrities, misuses lower-level employees, and engages in pseudos-scientific nonsense disguised as "counselling."

Fuck, though - that Xenu thing isn't even unsettling when compared to what I found on ScientologyHandbook dot org/suppression/sh11_1.htm concerning alleged "suppressive persons."

Before getting into the meat of this thing, here are the most frightening parts of the message:

First of all, there are only two kinds of people: Social people, and their anti-social enemies.

Secondly, anti-social persons are responsible for nearly all the conflict and havoc experienced by the human race.

Alas, the document laments...

A characteristic, and one of the sad things about an antisocial personality, is that it does not respond to treatment or reform.

...therefore...

Similarly, if society were to recognize this personality type as a sick being as they now isolate people with smallpox, both social and economic recoveries could occur.

This document alleges that "anti-social personalities" account for about 20% of the population. The author(s) offer nothing in the way of proof to back this claim or this number, which makes it as ironic as it is frightening when this line of thought continues with the following:

[The anti-social person] speaks only in very broad generalities. “They say...†“Everybody thinks...†“Everyone knows...†and such expressions are in continual use, particularly when imparting rumor. When asked, “Who is everybody...†it normally turns out to be one source and from this source the antisocial person has manufactured what he or she pretends is the whole opinion of the whole society.

This is natural to them since to them all society is a large hostile generality, against the antisocial in particular.

I added the bolding to illuminate the stunning lack of self-examination that would have to occur for someone to write this without stopping for a second and asking, "Wait a minute; what the fuck did I just write?"

Another problem with this item, which appears first on the list of anti-social personality traits, is that "speaking in generalities" is also - and I don't mean this as an insult - common to people with limited educations.

They may hear a fact and spread it without knowing its source, therefore "they say..."

The cure, for want of a better term, is simply more education and a greater emphasis on attention to detail.

Another alleged characteristic of the anti-social person is that others around them may be ill:

Surrounding such a personality we find cowed or ill associates or friends who, when not driven actually insane, are yet behaving in a crippled manner in life, failing, not succeeding.

This fits in well with a Scientology video I watched a few minutes before finding the page from which I cite, wherein the creators claim conflicts between and among people do not originate with the persons themselves but rather with a covert antagonist who plays one person off against another for insidious reasons that are never really explained.

The idea that people are responsible for their own actions only seems to apply to that "sick" 20%, whereas everyone else, from individuals to nations, are victimized; they are not responsible for their own actions: The so-called suppressive persons are responsible and must be isolated for the betterment of humanity.

(Apparently the Scientologists who wrote this are either (a) completely ignorant of both history and the modern politics of what I choose to call "enemizing," or (b) they understand these concepts perfectly and are using them as weapons against those who oppose the Cos.)

The antisocial cannot finish a cycle of action. Any action goes through a sequence wherein the action is begun, is continued for as long as is required and is completed as planned.

The first thing I noticed about the above sentence is the omission of the word "person." Whether overt or accidental, this is a subtle piece of dehumanization - and if you really want to avoid dangerous people, those most willing to categorize and dehumanize are the ones from whom you should run.

(I'm not exaggerating: RUN!)

The second thing I notice about this sentence is that it could apply to anyone at some point in his or her life. Depending on what is going on around them, people can find themselves overworked, overwhelmed, and thus sitting in a pile of half-finished tasks.

The cure - again, for want of a better term - is a lesson on prioritizing.

And here's one that caught my special attention:

Many antisocial persons will freely confess to the most alarming crimes when forced to do so, but will have no faintest sense of responsibility for them.

Their actions have little or nothing to do with their own volition. Things “just happened.â€

They have no sense of correct causation and particularly cannot feel any sense of remorse or shame therefore.

Setting aside the idiocy of claiming someone will "freely" confess to a crime "when forced," I'm genuinely at a loss as to how they expect someone should act when admitting specifically to terrible crimes. The lack of affect could be due to a lack of remorse, but it could also be a result of the opposite: There's a feeling among certain criminals that overly emotional confessions are so cloying and dramatic as to merely insult survivors or the families of victims.

...and as for things 'just happening' - well, damn, why doesn't the criminal just blame exposure to a destructive and manipulative anti-social personality? Scientologists accept that as a reason for interpersonal conflict, so why not accept it as a reason for criminal activity?

Xenu, Thetans - people are entitled to their eccentricities in religious belief.

The document from which I have quoted (legally, through Fair Use copyright law in the US and Fair Dealing copyright law in Canada) is not merely some eccentric set of beliefs; it's a blueprint for the destruction of human beings.

ETA: "Lawrence Wright talks about Going Clear"

[August]

Burris, the whole thing is ridiculous, from beginning to end. I wouldn't even make it past the second session.

http://tonyortega.org/up-the-bridge-our ... l-freedom/

[Burris]

Burris, the whole thing is ridiculous, from beginning to end. I wouldn't even make it past the second session.

http://tonyortega.org/up-the-bridge-our ... l-freedom/

I've done stupid shit. I've believed stupid shit. I've read about people doing stupid shit. I've read about people believing stupid shit.

But by Xenu, that page I quoted was stuuuuupid shit! It wouldn't have been worth the bandwidth if the message weren't so dangerous.

That gave me a headache and I still have it. One of these days, I'm going to open one of those documents and die of a fucking aneurysm - and if the coroner is honest, he or she will list my cause of death as, "stupid shit!"

[shedemei]

Burris, you should check out some critical discussions of L. Ron Hubbard. It's amazing that he formed an all-encompassing legalistic religion/business/cult around his own personal demons. Scientology was (maybe is) amazing at infiltrating different organizations and twisting them to their own purposes.

Culmination of the philosophy of other people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_ ... ntology%29

Psychiatry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_and_psychiatry

Operation Snow White: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

(Linking to wikipedia because I'm at work and too damn lazy to look up better sources)

[FearLyss]

I watched it. I have a slight obsession with Scientology (and cults in general) and have been eagerly waiting for this documentary. Last night was way too exciting for me.

I was expecting to see a response from them today, and they did not disappoint. On their website, they have videos about the former members that appeared in Going Clear, attempting to debunk their stories and tell "secrets" about their personal lives. This is just one of the many things these fucktards are accused of and that people take issue with, so they really are just digging their own grave, and I am enjoying the show. :twisted:

[Peas n carrots]

I have read reviews that John Travolta and especially Tom Cruise came off really bad in the doc (the book was damning as well - though more in Tom's case).

Leah Remini issued a tweet in support of the film. It seems like even the celeb ranks have thinned these days! Not many left I can think of:

Kirsty Alley

Juliette Lewis

Beck

Giovanni Ribisi

Anne Archer

Kelly Preston

[Burris]

Burris, you should check out some critical discussions of L. Ron Hubbard. It's amazing that he formed an all-encompassing legalistic religion/business/cult around his own personal demons. Scientology was (maybe is) amazing at infiltrating different organizations and twisting them to their own purposes.

Culmination of the philosophy of other people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_ ... ntology%29

Psychiatry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_and_psychiatry

Operation Snow White: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

(Linking to wikipedia because I'm at work and too damn lazy to look up better sources)

Yes - that's...

I'm not actually making fun of Scientology: I understand them, in some ways; how they could be lured by the light. Consider what Scientology promises: Hope of eternal life, a career one will enjoy, a love that will not fail (because one has been trained to spot and avoid "suppresive persons").

Their visual media is quite advanced.

And then one finds him or herself signing away their souls in these billion-year contracts - which, if one thinks about it, isn't all that much different from passing through the initiation to join a criminal organization. Selling your soul for one ideology isn't all that much different from selling for another.

And when they find their lives do not live up to the promise, they have already devoured hundreds of hours of media that teaches them to blame either themselves - they may be SPs, by Xenu! - or other people...

...or their entire family is in the CoS and that church practices shunning.

If most people react like I first did to the ridiculous machinations of L. Ron Hubbard, they could easily convince themselves they'd never fall for anything that stupid.

If these books and television documentaries convince such people otherwise, putting the fear into them that yes they could do something that stupid, or worse, then those who had the guts to leave have done a true public service.

The recognition of common human frailty is the only source of anything like inoculation to this kind of thing I have ever encountered - and God knows I have looked.

[August]

I've done stupid shit. I've believed stupid shit. I've read about people doing stupid shit. I've read about people believing stupid shit.

But by Xenu, that page I quoted was stuuuuupid shit! It wouldn't have been worth the bandwidth if the message weren't so dangerous.

That gave me a headache and I still have it. One of these days, I'm going to open one of those documents and die of a fucking aneurysm - and if the coroner is honest, he or she will list my cause of death as, "stupid shit!"

I couldn't get past telling the ashtray to sit down.

So I’ll tell you the steps of TR-8 and then exactly how I felt about doing those steps at age 12.

TR-8 has several steps, all of which involve giving commands to an ashtray. And yes, I can absolutely understand where someone on the outside would find this strange.

Frankly, I found it bizarre at age 12, and some of the steps I found to be utterly ridiculous. If there was a benefit, I’m not sure I could tell you what it was.

But perhaps that’s just me.

The steps of TR-8 are as follows:

First of all, the commands you give to the ashtray (and which you then make the ashtray execute) are:

Stand up.

Thank you.

Sit down on that chair.

Thank you.

You do these commands by yelling them at the ashtray as loud as you possibly can.

Next you do it non-verbally — thinking the commands at the ashtray and making the ashtray execute them.

Actually, I lie, I wouldn't get past this

CLAIRE: TR-3 goes like this…

Me: Do birds fly?

Coach: Yes

Me: Thank you. Do birds fly?

Coach: What time is it?

Me: I’ll repeat the auditing question, do birds fly?

And TR-4 is very similar…

Me: Do birds fly?

Coach: Yes

Me: Thank you. Do birds fly?

Coach: I have a headache.

Me: I understand. I’ll repeat the auditing question, do birds fly?

[calimojo]

I have read reviews that John Travolta and especially Tom Cruise came off really bad in the doc (the book was damning as well - though more in Tom's case).

Leah Remini issued a tweet in support of the film. It seems like even the celeb ranks have thinned these days! Not many left I can think of:

Kirsty Alley

Juliette Lewis

Beck

Giovanni Ribisi

Anne Archer

Kelly Preston

Cruise comes off as an ass in the book. But Travolta comes off as a sweet, but sad man. I feel like he was very sensitive and insecure and the cult took complete advantage of him. At one point, he does shun, for lack of a better word, a person who had been his mentor/sponsor for years because she was likely leaving the cult. But other than that I just pretty much felt sorry for him. My impression was he stayed in the cult because they had some sort of power over him. Yes, I know that is why most stay, but with Tom Cruise, it felt more like he stayed for symbiotic reasons between the cult and Cruise. Cruise has gotten immensely favored support from the cult. He is Miscavige's good friend, and he was given all kinds of special privileges, free domestic help, and tons of ego stroking along the way. You get the impression that the cult felt like it needed Tom as much as Tom felt he needed it.

With Poor John, I just get the feeling that cult leadership just wanted to get enough dirt on him to keep him there, but it doesn't seem like he was ever afforded the same privilege that Cruise had. It was as if they didn't respect him much, but his fame was what they were after.

I don't get the impression that either man is very smart (Cruise or Travolta), and they both probably have one or two very big secrets in their closet. In fact, some think that every time Travolta gets close to bolting, that the Cult will leak a story about him in a bath house or something just to remind him that they will hold true to their threats of outing him fully if he doesn't straighten up and fly right.

I also got the impression that Travolta's wife is more of an enforcer for John than a true love partner. I think she was matched with him to keep the gay rumors at bay, and I think she was given the task of keeping him in line.

[Cleopatra7]

[tm][/tm]

Cruise comes off as an ass in the book. But Travolta comes off as a sweet, but sad man. I feel like he was very sensitive and insecure and the cult took complete advantage of him. At one point, he does shun, for lack of a better word, a person who had been his mentor/sponsor for years because she was likely leaving the cult. But other than that I just pretty much felt sorry for him. My impression was he stayed in the cult because they had some sort of power over him. Yes, I know that is why most stay, but with Tom Cruise, it felt more like he stayed for symbiotic reasons between the cult and Cruise. Cruise has gotten immensely favored support from the cult. He is Miscavige's good friend, and he was given all kinds of special privileges, free domestic help, and tons of ego stroking along the way. You get the impression that the cult felt like it needed Tom as much as Tom felt he needed it.

With Poor John, I just get the feeling that cult leadership just wanted to get enough dirt on him to keep him there, but it doesn't seem like he was ever afforded the same privilege that Cruise had. It was as if they didn't respect him much, but his fame was what they were after.

I don't get the impression that either man is very smart (Cruise or Travolta), and they both probably have one or two very big secrets in their closet. In fact, some think that every time Travolta gets close to bolting, that the Cult will leak a story about him in a bath house or something just to remind him that they will hold true to their threats of outing him fully if he doesn't straighten up and fly right.

I also got the impression that Travolta's wife is more of an enforcer for John than a true love partner. I think she was matched with him to keep the gay rumors at bay, and I think she was given the task of keeping him in line.

I never thought of that but it makes sense. However, why can't Scientology find a similar enforcer for Tom Cruise? I get the impression that Travolta is a fairly simple man, at least compared to Cruise, and much less high maintenance. Nicole Kidman was an equal to Cruise and willing to stand up to him and Scientology and I get the impression that he won't tolerate that again, which would explain why the cult has tried to set him up with young, relatively powerless women.

[bionicmlle]

I watched with my husband. He didn't know much sent Scientology and was totally horrified.

This!

I am a COS-watcher and regularly read several sources for COS info including Tony Ortega's site. The documentary scratched the surface of Scientology's craziness but my hope is that people watch it and are like "WHAT THE FUCK?" I think most of the public think of COS as a somewhat goofy, harmless "religion" which couldn't be farther from the truth.

[PennySycamore]

Elizabeth Moss of Mad Men was apparently raised in the CoS. She's made some comments about her ex-husband Fred Armisen that make her sound like a total asshole.

Nancy Cartwright, the voice of Bart Simpson, has given at least $10 million to the CoS.

Catherine Bell is still in as are Jenna and Bodhi Elfman.

I do agree with John Travolta seeming a bit dim. I think, though, he might have come close to bolting from the CoS when his son died a few years ago.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Alanna Masterson aka Tara on The Walking Dead was raised in it and practices, as do her brothers, Danny and Christopher. Danny was on That 70's show and his wife, Bijou Phillips is one, tooHe recently made remarks:

huffpost.com/us/entry/6669692

The Church of Scientology is not pleased with the documentary, and neither is Masterson, a second generation Scientologist, who told the magazine, "I heard about that documentary; the documentary where they interviewed eight people who hate Scientology. Should be pretty interesting. I wonder if Sundance would allow a documentary of, like, eight people who hate Judaism. But you know, my religion's fair game, I guess, 'cause it's new."

Scientology is very new. It was created in 1954 by science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard and one of the church's core beliefs is that 75 million years ago, Xenu, dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy," sent billions of frozen souls on spaceships from his overpopulated planet to the bases of volcanoes on Earth. When the volcanoes erupted, the scattered souls -- or "thetans" -- found their way into human bodies, and their emotional issues haunt their human hosts.

The 38-year-old, who is married to Bijou Phillips, didn't hold back when he was asked about how the controversial religion is pitted against psychiatry.

"You will not find a Scientologist who does not fucking hate psychiatrists," he told the magazine. "Because their solution for mental and spiritual problems is drugs. So let's talk about putting a Band-Aid on something that's just going to get worse and worse and worse."

He continued:

And the thing is, I'm sure there are tons and tons of amazing human beings who are psychologists or psychiatrists. But it's like, if you study that man is an animal and nothing more than that, and you basically have this fuckin' manual that has, what, 5,000 disorders in it, that you just bill your insurance company -- "Oh, you have PMS disorder, you have caffeine-addict disorder, you have mathematics disorder; here, take Prozac" -- what the fuck is that? Scientology handles those things, those mental problems that people have. It gets rid of them. It gets rid of them by that person doing it for themselves. That's the solution to depression, not fuckin' Prozac and whatever other pill that makes the kid then walk into a goddamn school and kill other kids.

Masterson also took on the charge that the Church is anti-gay, which is one of the reasons director Paul Haggis famously renounced the religion.

"What Paul was angry at made perfect sense, but it had nothing to do with Scientology. There was some person who worked at some small church in San Diego who wrote his name and then wrote 'Church of Scientology' on Prop. 8, which is the most fucked up thing I've ever fucking heard," Masterson explained. "That guy got reamed, kicked out, I don't know what the fuck happened to him. But then Paul was just mad that, as a religion, we're not going to come out and say that we are for or against anything, which is a political matter."

Masterson told the magazine he's never openly discussed his beliefs before, but he's just a "spiritual being who likes to understand why things happen in the world and want to learn more so that [he] can have them not affect [him] adversely."

"So if that's weird, then, well, you can go fuck yourself," he said.

And there's Jenna Elfman and Greta Van Susteran.

[DaffyDill]

Alanna Masterson aka Tara on The Walking Dead was raised in it and practices, as do her brothers, Danny and Christopher. Danny was on That 70's show and his wife, Bijou Phillips is one, tooHe recently made remarks:

huffpost.com/us/entry/6669692

And there's Jenna Elfman and Greta Van Susteran.

If the CoS is indeed anti-gay, and I had thought that to be true, it is rather hypocritical of Alanna Masterson to play a gay character on The Walking Dead. Her character was shown to be gay an episode or so ago when she became involved with a woman in the same camp as her. Still, money talks with the CoS, so maybe it's OK to let your put your beliefs aside for some cold, hard cash to spend on more Scientology crap.

[Firiel]

"You will not find a Scientologist who does not fucking hate psychiatrists," he told the magazine. "Because their solution for mental and spiritual problems is drugs. So let's talk about putting a Band-Aid on something that's just going to get worse and worse and worse."

He continued:

And the thing is, I'm sure there are tons and tons of amazing human beings who are psychologists or psychiatrists. But it's like, if you study that man is an animal and nothing more than that, and you basically have this fuckin' manual that has, what, 5,000 disorders in it, that you just bill your insurance company -- "Oh, you have PMS disorder, you have caffeine-addict disorder, you have mathematics disorder; here, take Prozac" -- what the fuck is that? Scientology handles those things, those mental problems that people have. It gets rid of them. It gets rid of them by that person doing it for themselves. That's the solution to depression, not fuckin' Prozac and whatever other pill that makes the kid then walk into a goddamn school and kill other kids.

:wtf:

This is just as offensive as the crap Lori Alexander spouts.

There is no way to even dialogue with someone saying shit like this. :cray-cray:

[CrazyCatLady]

No joke about that being totally offensive and completely wrong but you're right- you can't talk sense into that kind of hatred.