HBO Documentary: Going Clear

[Howl]

Also different people in the org are treated very differently. They don't all attend the same events etc.

Yes, when you have one church location called The Celebrity Center, you can guess there is an institutionalized caste system involved.

Reflecting back on the book (have not yet seen the documentary), the scariest part besides The Hole was the unfortunately successful strategy of hate bombing and paralyzing the IRS with relentless law suits until IRS capitulated and classified CoS as a church, which has allowed them to amass staggering wealth. If I could wish anything about this group, the first wish is that they lose their tax exempt status ASAP.

Also, the epilogue to the book was so interesting. Wright points out that Scientology's origin myths and idea of thetans are obviously inventions from L Ron's fertile sci fi imagination, but in truth, most (all?) religions have origin stories and other aspects that actively feature supernatural elements that are ardently believed as literally true by its adherents.

[Peas n carrots]

I finally got with my friends and watched Going Clear last night. I think seeing the visuals - the Scientology events, the expressions on the faces of former Scientologists describing their embarrassment for getting caught up in the org, the scary stalking of detractors really hit home.

My jaw dropped when Tony Ortega said the CO$ showed up at his mothers front door. He isn't even former CO$ but a journalist.

Speaking of Tom...notice he has been pretty quiet about $cientology since his divorce from Katie. I wonder how involved he is these days?

[happy atheist]

LRH is just about the creepiest looking person I've ever seen. Ugh.

Scientology has no weekly service, right? They don't all gather to worship or anything, do they? It's all just wacky e-meters and shit like that. Seeing that footage of the big room full of people all being audited was so strange. You don't even get privacy?

[GeoBQn]

According to this article, the author's mother had to attend some kind of weekly meeting. One week, she had to leave early to take the kids to a doctor's appointment. She then discovered that the doors were locked during meetings, preventing people inside from getting out.

http://www.cracked.com/article_20869_5- ... tmare.html

[shedemei]

Using lack of free access to texts as a sign that Scientology is a cult is a dangerous one, because there are minority religions that are similar. The Druze religion, for example, is split into two castes: the initiated are a small minority who are full participants in the religion, and everyone else, who do not have access to the holy books or ceremonies. Are the Druze also part of a cult?

Focusing on abuse, brainwashing, and financial exploitation is a more productive ways of criticizing it than making fun of Xenu. I mean, I think Xenu is bullshit, but Co$ can legitimately claim religious discrimination when criticized based on the creation myth.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I'm going to finally see it today when I go to my dads. Happy Easter to me!

This is fascinating

tinyurl.com/cbzhrl

A Scientology spokesman has confirmed that Scientologists believe that mankind's problems stem from brainwashed alien soul remnants created millions of years ago by genocidal alien overlord Xenu. The admission follows years of attempts to dismiss the story, first leaked by defectors, as anti-church propaganda.

cientologist doctrine suggests that exposure to the fantastical Xenu story before the completion of numerous preparatory stages might result in pneumonia or even death. Scientologists pay an estimated $350,000 to reach OT III.

A core doctrine of Scientology belief is that freeing the human body of attachment to alien soul remnants, or Thetans, created by Xenu when he kidnapped millions and brought them to earth for a fiery execution, is key to achieving spiritual progress and relief from worries.

[August]

LRH is just about the creepiest looking person I've ever seen. Ugh.

Scientology has no weekly service, right? They don't all gather to worship or anything, do they? It's all just wacky e-meters and shit like that. Seeing that footage of the big room full of people all being audited was so strange. You don't even get privacy?

That's only for one stage, can't remember which one.

Notaloser, I was reading a survivor atory and they really truly were worried they'd die when they googled Xenu.

[Idolatry]

I bet L. Ron Hubbard was fascinating to meet in person.

[happy atheist]

I bet L. Ron Hubbard was fascinating to meet in person.

That was the whole problem.

[Peas n carrots]

I bet L. Ron Hubbard was fascinating to meet in person.

If you notice in the early Sea Org days when they were sailing the world almost his entire crew was very young kids. I think that says a lot right there...he targeted impressionable young people because he was such a fascinating character. Apparently the bullshit meter develops as one ages (or at least in most people it does).

In general, you don't hear many stories of "I was middle aged workaday person when I got into $cientology."

[GotCaughtDancing]

Okay so I finally watched (actually watching it now) this documentary. I wish this Doc maker would have left of Jason Beghe. This guy has been spouting the same crap for years after he was booted out of the church. So it bothers me that everyone on earth includes him in their tell alls. Believe me there are 1000+ other people they could go to for disillusionment and shaming of the church if they just looked around. I know they want a celebrity, but this guy is not who they have for many reasons. He didn't buy his way to clear from 0-60 the way he says. Any way that is my .02 cents about it so far.

[Idolatry]

I don't know a lot about Scientology, and I'm not sure this was helpful. You could make a documentary about how stupid most religious practices are -- like the Southpark on Mormonism. I mean angels are cool, but aliens are stupid?

Then it spends like 15 minutes on weird vague abuse claims, wut? I feel like this is like a soundclip halfway through half the story. I'm so confused now, and I really don't know if I want to read more about Scientology.

[Cleopatra7]

If you notice in the early Sea Org days when they were sailing the world almost his entire crew was very young kids. I think that says a lot right there...he targeted impressionable young people because he was such a fascinating character. Apparently the bullshit meter develops as one ages (or at least in most people it does).

In general, you don't hear many stories of "I was middle aged workaday person when I got into $cientology."

Most of LRH's "Messangers" were pre-teen and teenage girls, which reminds me of Gothard and his misbehavior towards his female interns. Granted, it does not appear that LRH behaved untoward his female Messangers, but the fact that they engaged in very intimate acts like dressing and bathing him does seem inappropriate. Then again, the very fact that these girls were effectively abandoned by their parents to become middle school drop-outs and serve LRH (presumably for a billion years) is also inappropriate:

http://www.vanityfair.com/style/2014/03 ... de-throned

Sea Org also included a group called the Commodore’s Messengers Organization. Most of the Messengers happened to be comely teenage girls dressed in hot pants and halter tops. They were at the Commodore’s beck and call, fetching him drinks, recording his utterances, relaying his commands to others, drawing his bath, and lighting his Kools.

Among Hubbard’s most devoted Messengers was the youngest one on board: Michelle “Shelly†Barnett. In photographs from that era, she is revealed to be a willowy beauty with strawberry-blond hair. She became a Messenger in the early 1970s when she was around 12.

Shelly’s father, Barney, was a handyman who struggled to find work, according to the Headleys; her mother, Flo Barnett, had emotional issues. Such was the couple’s faith in Scientology that they left Shelly and her older sister, Clarisse, in Hubbard’s care. From then on the kids’ early education consisted of little beyond the gospel of L.R.H., which held that people are immortal beings, or “thetans,†trapped in human bodies. Thetans are encumbered by traumas, or “engrams,†accumulated during past lives. Only through a proprietary therapeutic process known as “auditing†could thetans be cleared of engrams.

The Messengers were devoted to Hubbard. He was, after all, their de facto parent. But Shelly, according to several sources, worshipped the man, hanging on his every word and following his orders with a precision that belied her young years and girlish appearance. “You’d see this pretty young girl with blond hair and sneakers,†recalls former Sea Org executive Mike Rinder. “But suddenly she’d be interrogating people with ‘What are you doing and why are you doing it?’ â€

"Shelly" Barnett would eventually become Shelly Miscavige, the MIA wife of David Miscavige.

[happy atheist]

I don't know a lot about Scientology, and I'm not sure this was helpful. You could make a documentary about how stupid most religious practices are -- like the Southpark on Mormonism. I mean angels are cool, but aliens are stupid?

Then it spends like 15 minutes on weird vague abuse claims, wut? I feel like this is like a soundclip halfway through half the story. I'm so confused now, and I really don't know if I want to read more about Scientology.

Here's what you need to know about scientology: It was invented in the 1950s by a science fiction writer who wanted a tax shelter.

[Hane]

I'm appalled to see that the Co$ has appropriated the cross as a religious symbol, and that its "clergy" has taken to wearing Roman collars.

My daughter has a friend who's a Scieno. (Fortunately, she's a Tier 2 friend, rather than an intimate bestie.)

This may be a TL;DR, so sit tight or take off for the next thread:

This young woman (I'll call her Darcy) was raised in a decent, working class, mainstream Catholic family. She was one of the "good kids": responsible and an excellent student. She dated a boy I'll call Tom, who was similarly a good kid, but who had a mother who turned out to be a whack job. (At present, Tom's mother has a serious gambling addiction, is broke, and is constantly going after her daughter [a hardworking solid citizen] for money.) Tom's mother developed an inexplicable hatred of Darcy, and did everything in her power to break them up--so, being high school kids and essentially powerless, they separated.

Tom married, became a father, joined the Marines, and was sent to Iraq--where he made international headlines and was court-martialed over an attack on insurgents. (In a plea deal, he was busted down from staff sergeant to private, but eventually was honorably discharged.) He's divorced now.

Meanwhile, Darcy developed her career. While she was still in her mid-20s, she bought a house on her own (seriously perfect and absolutely adorable). Then she became a Scientologist. She tried to get my daughter interested (my daughter went to an initial auditing session and BSed her way through it) but my daughter told her she was "too cheap and New Agey" to find it a fit.

Darcy's neighbors are members of my UU church. The UU has a tradition of the "open pulpit," in which non-members of our church, clergy and lay, are often invited to lead services. Darcy decided that she'd like to do this, so I told her to contact the liturgy committee (of which I was a member). On receiving her email, the committee met and we decided NO WAY IN (non-existent Universalist) HELL, and sent her a polite rejection.

One Sunday, though (thank God I wasn't there, but I listened to a recording of the service later--we record services so that people who can't attend can borrow the CDs and listen to them), she showed up with a few fellow Scienos and tried to hijack part of the service. In every service at our church, we have a "sharing of joys and concerns," in which people get up and share happy news (new jobs, new babies, graduations, etc.) and concerns (friends/family in poor health, deaths, etc.). Darcy got up and gave a long anecdote about how her organization, called "The Way to Happiness" (a front group used to interest people in the Co$ without actually ADMITTING to being part of the Co$), had dropped their leaflets into a Colombian jungle, causing the violent drug lords there to throw down their weapons and walk out of the jungle, renouncing their drug addiction and violence. (Some of the poor, naive congregants actually applauded--I heard the minister loudly clearing his throat to get the service back on track.) At the end of the service, she got up and announced that she and her colleagues had literature to share in the lobby.

The minister and a couple of the committee chairs cornered her in the lobby to inform her that showing up to evangelize that way, after her request had been officially rejected, was NOT OK. She just stood there staring at them with a big smile on her face. They said it was creepy.

Darcy got married to a fellow Scieno in Clearwater, Florida, and I think she settled down there.

I often wonder how Darcy and Tom's lives would have played out if his mother hadn't been such a nut job. Would they have married and settled down here in Bluecollarville and remained nominal/lapsed Catholics? Who knows?

[homeschoolmomma1]

Does anyone know if there is a way I can watch this online? I know it is probably hard to find since it is HBO. Perhaps it will be able to be bought sometime, but is it worth buying?

[CallmeChaCha]

You can get HBO Now. It's a new service and you don't need cable, just an internet connection. I think they might be offering a free trial. I think. I may be confusing it with other new online services.

[CallmeChaCha]

latimes.com/local/california/la-me-scientology-private-eyes-20150409-story.html#page=1

"Scientology head's father was spied on, police report says"

According to the article, David Miscavige hired a private investigator to follow his dad, Ron, and Ron's wife. Ron left the COS about two years ago, and David wanted to have him followed to make sure the elder Miscavige wouldn't divulge church secrets. The PI went through Ron's garbage, placed a GPS tracking device on his car ( :shock: ), listened to his conversations when Mr. Miscavige was out to dinner or talking on the cell phone.

:cray-cray:

[Howl]

I'm appalled to see that the Co$ has appropriated the cross as a religious symbol, and that its "clergy" has taken to wearing Roman collars.

My daughter has a friend who's a Scieno. (Fortunately, she's a Tier 2 friend, rather than an intimate bestie.)

This may be a TL;DR, so sit tight or take off for the next thread:

Hane, I sat tight! It made me wonder what the official Co$ policy is on evangelizing. Is everyone supposed to do it, similar to Christians who give testimony or go door to door?

The uninvited presentation at the church service is creepy, but based on what I've read and many of posts here, it sounds like, well, Scientology.

[PennySycamore]

You can get HBO Now. It's a new service and you don't need cable, just an internet connection. I think they might be offering a free trial. I think. I may be confusing it with other new online services.

I was just going to mention the HBO NOW app. You can try it free for a month. We already subscribe to the TV version so I wonder if I'd have to pay once my free trial is over.

[CallmeChaCha]

I was just going to mention the HBO NOW app. You can try it free for a month. We already subscribe to the TV version so I wonder if I'd have to pay once my free trial is over.

If you already have HBO, then you can use HBO Go. That's how I binge-watched Game of Thrones and almost went over my mobile data plan (because I was watching during my work breaks :D ).

[GeoBQn]

My cable on demand section has a free preview of HBO, so I watched the documentary. I am also reading the book, which I still recommend for depth of information. The early 90's "music video" was simultaneously the most snarkworthy thing I have ever seen and the creepiest. The use of the phrase "religious freedom" to avoid taxes and continue enslaving people made me think of how it is being used now to justify discriminating against the LGBT community.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

The part about Tom Cruise wanting to bug Nicole Kidman's phone made my hair stand on end. I've mentioned here before about my friend who is getting a divorce from her emotionally abusive husband. She is a SAHM and was originally planning on leaving once she got a full time job. I respected her decision until she told me that her husband had bugged the house. I told her, "Don't wait. GET OUT NOW" Luckily that was a wake up call for her. I haven't seen any Tom Cruise movies since he started to act weird 10 years ago, but if I had, hearing about him bugging Nicole would be enough to get me to boycott anything he does.

[treemom]

My cable on demand section has a free preview of HBO, so I watched the documentary. I am also reading the book, which I still recommend for depth of information. The early 90's "music video" was simultaneously the most snarkworthy thing I have ever seen and the creepiest. The use of the phrase "religious freedom" to avoid taxes and continue enslaving people made me think of how it is being used now to justify discriminating against the LGBT community.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

The part about Tom Cruise wanting to bug Nicole Kidman's phone made my hair stand on end. I've mentioned here before about my friend who is getting a divorce from her emotionally abusive husband. She is a SAHM and was originally planning on leaving once she got a full time job. I respected her decision until she told me that her husband had bugged the house. I told her, "Don't wait. GET OUT NOW" Luckily that was a wake up call for her. I haven't seen any Tom Cruise movies since he started to act weird 10 years ago, but if I had, hearing about him bugging Nicole would be enough to get me to boycott anything he does.

SNL did an elaborate and awesome parody of the "we stand tall" music video

[GeoBQn]

Ha!

[bBvideo 560,340:neej9ele]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8BuIHQclbM[/bBvideo]

[Just_Jane]

If you get xfinity/comcast cable with OnDemand service you can watch it for free without HBO subscription this weekend as part of the watchathon week. The offer ends on the 12th though. so you'll need to watch it this weekend.

I found it by going to the premium channels menu of Ondemand, then HBO then documentaries and then of course Going Clear.