HBO Documentary: Going Clear

[Jana814]

I've seen some of it. It's just plan nuts.

[PennySycamore]

If the CoS is indeed anti-gay, and I had thought that to be true, it is rather hypocritical of Alanna Masterson to play a gay character on The Walking Dead. Her character was shown to be gay an episode or so ago when she became involved with a woman in the same camp as her. Still, money talks with the CoS, so maybe it's OK to let your put your beliefs aside for some cold, hard cash to spend on more Scientology crap.

Sorta like John Travolta putting on a dress to play Edna Turnblad in the film musical of Hairspray? Edna was created by the fabulous, legendary Divine. John's Edna can't hold a candle to the original.

[Peas n carrots]

Well, Danny Masterson actually made himself sound nuttier than Tom Cruise in the infamous Matt Lauer interview.

Interesting that the church's current crop of celebs are second generation onwards. They aren't pulling in many new celeb converts.

I was in LA a month ago and as I was on my AM run up to Griffin Park I found the Celebrity Center! It was random I wasn't looking for it.

[Rachel333]

I'm about halfway through it. What is interesting is that LRH seems less of a fraud than I thought. Obviously it's all false, but it seems like LRH had some serious problems of his own and actually believed the stuff he came up with.

[Howl]

Sorta like John Travolta putting on a dress to play Edna Turnblad in the film musical of Hairspray? Edna was created by the fabulous, legendary Divine. John's Edna can't hold a candle to the original.

So true. But then, nobody can hold a candle to the original Divine.

[CallmeChaCha]

This!

I am a COS-watcher and regularly read several sources for COS info including Tony Ortega's site. The documentary scratched the surface of Scientology's craziness but my hope is that people watch it and are like "WHAT THE FUCK?" I think most of the public think of COS as a somewhat goofy, harmless "religion" which couldn't be farther from the truth.

That was me the whole time. I had heard of some of the crazy, like the squirrel people (I can't remember what they're called), the billion-year contracts, audits, but this delved more into the crazy and I just can't even believe some of it. The Xenu stuff, and the volcanoes, and thetans, and ... just what!? I definitely want to read more about it and look into it more. It's safe to say this documentary converted me (to CoS obsession) :lol:

[twin2]

I watched it and as a person who knew very little of Scientology before this, I basically watched it like :pink-shock:

Cruise came off in part like an arrogant ass and in part like a complete fool. To me, it seem his draw to it is the ego stroking and perks showered upon him.

Travolta came off a bit different, more sympathetic. It seem like he got recruited in when he was fairly young and naive, and at a very vulnerable point in in his career and life. It also seemed as if he was blackmailed, either literally or emotionally, to stay. However, the sympathy kind of wanes, as he is no longer a young kid, but a grown adult with enough money to do as he pleases.

Unlike what Masterson was ranting about, there was actually, very little, almost no mocking of belifs, just a few laughs from former members, while it was being explained, but that was maybe 5 min of the 2 hour film. Most was about how the church had defrauded and terrorized its members.

The way the CoS goes after those who criticize it reminds me very much of how Lance Armstrong went after those called him out. And we all know how that ended....

[gustava]

Not true. DGayle mentioned that women are treated differently (at least the sect(?) they were apart of). And it was either her or an ex-scientologist blogger I recently perused who said that the authority figures/incarnates are never women. I would believe that because I don't expect the old patterns of patriarchal society to die THAT easily.

Why is the male title used for everyone?

[gustava]

Burris, you should check out some critical discussions of L. Ron Hubbard. It's amazing that he formed an all-encompassing legalistic religion/business/cult around his own personal demons. Scientology was (maybe is) amazing at infiltrating different organizations and twisting them to their own purposes.

Culmination of the philosophy of other people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_ ... ntology%29

Psychiatry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_and_psychiatry

Operation Snow White: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

(Linking to wikipedia because I'm at work and too damn lazy to look up better sources)

And this is different from any other "religion" how?

[Burris]

And this is different from any other "religion" how?

1) Well, you can pick up a free Bible just about anywhere and read it from end to end for yourself without having to sign a billion-year indenture contract - so that's one point for Christianity, Islam, and Judaism.

2) There are thousands of flavours of churches, temples, and mosques and most of them welcome visitors without asking for a detailed history they can blackmail the new people with if they ever decide to leave.

3) No Tom Cruise, which is good for everyone because while he can be great with a script in front of him, he rambles like a junkie high on bullshit when he writes his own material.

[Hane]

Things that stood out as I read Wright's book "Going Clear" and the documentary:

• Scienos use jargon that's almost incomprehensible to outsiders, and seem to have the attitude that this makes CO$ members inherently superior.
  
  
  
• Scienos admit flat out that it's OK to lie in defense of the "church." This scares the willies out of me. Untruth, particularly institutionalized untruth, destroys the fabric of a culture. It's a toxic practice.
  
  
  
• Hubbard reminds me of so many smug "great man" figures who, through a brand of charisma I personally find repellent, are able to amass hordes of adoring and unquestioning followers. Think Gothard, Stevehovah, even John Rowland (a former governor of Connecticut who left his office in disgrace and now is facing his second prison term for corruption--but is still aligned with New Life Church, a Falwell offshoot). All of these men are astoundingly creepy-looking, but have people swooning over them.
  
  
  
• Scienos have an astounding lack of self-awareness. Their concept of "Always attack, never defend" makes them look like cranky toddlers or the dumbest high school bullies. Did anyone else notice the guy, near the end of the special, who was being harassed by Scienos wearing silly "Anti-Squirrel" tee shirts? Right around the time the HBO special was being released, the CO$ bought a domain name and rigged things so that their own "Freedom Magazine" website would come up first when someone did a web search. And, of course, "Freedom" led with an incredibly dopey ad hominem attack on the ex-Scienos in the special: "Well, so-and-so is a LIAR!" and "These people have been away from the church so long they have no idea what's going on now!" (while giving no clue about any past things that may have gone wrong and what the "church" has been doing to remedy them.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Do Scientologists ever verbally concede that they believe the alien stuff? I haven't seen the movie yet. I'm sure the celebrities haven't said it. So much is reported about their way of life but I'm curious about how they are taught about the aliens!

[GotCaughtDancing]

Do Scientologists ever verbally concede that they believe the alien stuff? I haven't seen the movie yet. I'm sure the celebrities haven't said it. So much is reported about their way of life but I'm curious about how they are taught about the aliens!

Aliens are not brought into play until you go clear and start with the OT. It is in the higher OT Levels that you get this info.

I was a member for 7 years and while I have nothing bad to say about my experience they are insanely good at keeping track of you and find you years later to send you stuff. :lol:

[shedemei]

And this is different from any other "religion" how?

I am discussing Scientology, not Scientology as compared to anything else.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Aliens are not brought into play until you go clear and start with the OT. It is in the higher OT Levels that you get this info.

I was a member for 7 years and while I have nothing bad to say about my experience they are insanely good at keeping track of you and find you years later to send you stuff. :lol:

Ha, interesting, thanks. I have two friends into it and they never talk about it. One was raised in it, doesn't even have her GED because she only went to training schools. She doesn't even take aspirin, but she will drink. If she drinks on a Sunday, she can't go to "church" on Monday. She has been unhappy in her life so her solution was quitting her job and she basically goes to the church center every single day. No idea what they do there.

[GotCaughtDancing]

Ha, interesting, thanks. I have two friends into it and they never talk about it. One was raised in it, doesn't even have her GED because she only went to training schools. She doesn't even take aspirin, but she will drink. If she drinks on a Sunday, she can't go to "church" on Monday. She has been unhappy in her life so her solution was quitting her job and she basically goes to the church center every single day. No idea what they do there.

Also different people in the org are treated very differently. They don't all attend the same events etc. Sorry your friend is going through that. She is probably convinced she feels unhappy or is actually depressed and this is what they want at a certain level. This gives them the in to keep you buying courses and auditing (being emetered). That is a simple technique of all cults and churches...whether they call it confession, auditing, etc., your unhappiness and guilt make the wheels of their bus go round.

[CallmeChaCha]

Is it bad that I'm watching this again? :? I feel like I didn't grasp all of the crazy the first time. :shock:

[Hane]

Is it bad that I'm watching this again? :? I feel like I didn't grasp all of the crazy the first time. :shock:

Not at all. It's like the first time I read "The Handmaid's Tale" and it was so scary it gave me nightmares, so I had to reread it right away in order to toughen myself up.

The actor interviewed for the documentary, at one point (may not have been in the actual documentary), said that Scientologists go after their critics with sledgehammers when precision instruments would be more effective. I had noticed this right away. The "church" would have a far better public image (not that necessarily would be a good thing) if they simply let disaffected members leave, instead of launching all-out "HE'S A LYING LIAR WHO LIES" attacks, replete with nuisance lawsuits.

[Howl]

This should be the CoS motto: Who are you going to trust -- me or your lying eyes?

Anyway, the Hole was the most horrifying aspect of the book and people going to these atonement/re-education camps for YEARS. Was this addressed in the documentary?

And the fact that few escape from them is even more horrifying.

Even David Miscavige's wife, who has not been seen in public for YEARS, is probably in one.

And the shunning (disconnection).

[CallmeChaCha]

This should be the CoS motto: Who are you going to trust -- me or your lying eyes?

Anyway, the Hole was the most horrifying aspect of the book and people going to these atonement/re-education camps for YEARS. Was this addressed in the documentary?

And the fact that few escape from them is even more horrifying.

Even David Miscavige's wife, who has not been seen in public for YEARS, is probably in one.

And the shunning (disconnection).

Yeah, they talked about The Hole and the Rehab Program RFP? RPF? I can't remember what it's called. I don't think they discussed anybody escaping from the hole but they did interview several people who had been there, and they also talked about some f-ed up musical chairs incident. I haven't read the book but I think most of the documentary is the same stuff as the book. They did NOT mention Shelly Miscavige, though, but I think there was an interview with Alex Gibney where he discusses why she wasn't mentioned at all. I can't remember where I saw that interview, sorry.

[16strong]

I imagine the stuff they didn't mention (Shelly, Tom Cruise's possible sexual relationship with David, etc.) was because they didn't have enough proof to say it and keep their hands clean legally. Remember that production hired *160* lawyers to review the documentary.

[StellaMarie]

Is it bad that I'm watching this again? :? I feel like I didn't grasp all of the crazy the first time. :shock:

It took me like 3 hours to get through it the first time -- I kept rewinding because some of the stuff is just so...fantastic.

[Idolatry]

I got through like 20 minutes, this is going to take another round or two.

[eri]

1) Well, you can pick up a free Bible just about anywhere and read it from end to end for yourself without having to sign a billion-year indenture contract - so that's one point for Christianity, Islam, and Judaism.

2) There are thousands of flavours of churches, temples, and mosques and most of them welcome visitors without asking for a detailed history they can blackmail the new people with if they ever decide to leave.

3) No Tom Cruise, which is good for everyone because while he can be great with a script in front of him, he rambles like a junkie high on bullshit when he writes his own material.

Add to that, there are easy-access resources for free texts from all major religions. Buddhism? You bet. Order online or visit a temple. Sikh? Yup. Hinduism? Sure.

Pretty much all religions besides Scientology have the same free resources. Although with one exception: Jehova's Witnesses, if let into your home and you have a good convo with them, will ask for donations. Guilt-tripping people into paying for materials you already offered: Awkward, greedy, rude, shitty.

[Cleopatra7]

This should be the CoS motto: Who are you going to trust -- me or your lying eyes?

Anyway, the Hole was the most horrifying aspect of the book and people going to these atonement/re-education camps for YEARS. Was this addressed in the documentary?

And the fact that few escape from them is even more horrifying.

Even David Miscavige's wife, who has not been seen in public for YEARS, is probably in one.

And the shunning (disconnection).

Shelly Miscavige was brought out of the Hole or wherever she's being held when Leah Remini initially left the cult and publicly announced that she was going to file a missing person report for her. Shelly was let out long enough to state that she wasn't missing and then went back into the Hole and hasn't been seen since then. The sad thing is that Shelly is probably so brainwashed that she has no desire to escape.