'not just be a career woman'

[eri]

"The Career Woman" is a Duggar boogeyman. Name a cause and the career woman is responsible. Shes promiscuous. She aborts babies. She is a lesbian. She is atheist. Whatever.

Does the Bible even frown upon career women? I mean, I know women aren't to teach men or be promiscuous, but is there anything damning a woman who makes a living doing something other than collecting and weaving flax? I am bad at my Bible.

[grandmadugger]

Does the Bible even frown upon career women? I mean, I know women aren't to teach men or be promiscuous, but is there anything damning a woman who makes a living doing something other than collecting and weaving flax? I am bad at my Bible.

Nothing that I remember off the top of my head. The Proverbs Wife works and sells things to support her home and most say she's the woman all women should be like. Like you the only restrictions I remember is not teaching men in church and not to be promiscuous but even Jesus hung out with a prostitute.

[littlesunshine]

I think people are taking this too far. It's not that Jill is looking down on career women, but that she's saying a career should not be your goal in life whether you're a man or a woman. People are so easily ignoring that they also mentioned their brothers in the conversation about what they should do with their lives. It wasn't about hating work outside the home. She just said that they're trying to live their lives to bring God glory. For a lot of Christian women, that means using their unique skills in the home, but God calls everyone to different things. That's why they don't look down on NICU nurses. They believe that God is using them to save babies like Josie and bring more people to Jesus by showing what miracles God can work with willing stewards of his gifts.

So what Jill is saying here is not as offensive as some are trying to believe and certainly not cause for discrimination complaints. She doesn't want to encourage being a "career woman" because that implies a woman who puts her career before God. In this thread alone, I've seen people talking about their career goals and achievements with pride, as if it makes them betted than Jill because she doesn't have career goals or achievements. Jill would argue that you are putting your pride before God, feeding it with God's gifts (he gave you that job, he allowed you to rock that presentation, he supported you through that exam, etc) and not thanking him or giving him credit. In her statement, she's encorhaging people to put God before anything else in their lives. To her, I'm sure being a stay at home mom seems like the least prideful job ever, serving Jesus by making babies and raising them to be disciples.

I don't neccessarily agree with Jill, but I think people on here try to make her more malicious than she is. She's just living according to her code, not discriminating of dissing anyone else.

[SassyPants]

I think people are taking this too far. It's not that Jill is looking down on career women, but that she's saying a career should not be your goal in life whether you're a man or a woman. People are so easily ignoring that they also mentioned their brothers in the conversation about what they should do with their lives. It wasn't about hating work outside the home. She just said that they're trying to live their lives to bring God glory. For a lot of Christian women, that means using their unique skills in the home, but God calls everyone to different things. That's why they don't look down on NICU nurses. They believe that God is using them to save babies like Josie and bring more people to Jesus by showing what miracles God can work with willing stewards of his gifts.

So what Jill is saying here is not as offensive as some are trying to believe and certainly not cause for discrimination complaints. She doesn't want to encourage being a "career woman" because that implies a woman who puts her career before God. In this thread alone, I've seen people talking about their career goals and achievements with pride, as if it makes them betted than Jill because she doesn't have career goals or achievements. Jill would argue that you are putting your pride before God, feeding it with God's gifts (he gave you that job, he allowed you to rock that presentation, he supported you through that exam, etc) and not thanking him or giving him credit. In her statement, she's encorhaging people to put God before anything else in their lives. To her, I'm sure being a stay at home mom seems like the least prideful job ever, serving Jesus by making babies and raising them to be disciples.

I don't neccessarily agree with Jill, but I think people on here try to make her more malicious than she is. She's just living according to her code, not discriminating of dissing anyone else.

But then wouldn't each person be individually convicted in how they would best serve God? How could it it be that all the Duggars are convicted in the exact, same way?

IMO, this is more a justification of extreme laziness and inability or unwillingness to march to the beat of another's (employers drum).

I thought it was very telling when asked what a main difference between the Dillard lifestyle vs the Duggars...and Jill said, "the day starts and ends much earlier in the Dillard home." Yep, most people have to get up early when they work for someone else. If you have to get up early and bust hump all day, you're tired at night. Very telling, IMO.

Wonder how long before Derick is self employed?

[littlesunshine]

But then wouldn't each person be individually convicted in how they would best serve God? How could it it be that all the Duggars are convicted in the exact, same way?

IMO, this is more a justification of extreme laziness and inability or unwillingness to march to the beat of another's (employers drum).

Yes, absolutely.

Sometimes feeling convicted to do something can get distorted and, when you're looking at so many people, it's likely that at least half of them are not actually feeling convicted by God, but are doing whatever is least scary or easiest in their current position. It's a lot easier to say "wow I feel convicted to be an actress" if your parents are in show business. Likewise, it's a lot easier for the Duggars to feel convicted to be stay at home mothers and wives because their mother has done that. Same thing with Josh doing the whole used car lot thing - maybe he felt convicted to go into politics, but it was easier for him to do used car sales because he could rely on his dad's expertise. The Duggars would argue that God knew Josh would not listen to his original conviction because he is a sinful human and so he used the car lot to teach Josh valuable lessons before he was ready to muster up the courage to move away and start something new.

So yeah, they may all be saying that they feel convicted exactly the same way now, but it's likely that they'll grow and mature in their faith as they get older and will be more ready to listen to and follow all of the convictions they feel instead of just the easy ones.

But also they could grow and mature away from the true nature of God and toward legalism and be totally horrible.

[eri]

I think people are taking this too far. It's not that Jill is looking down on career women, but that she's saying a career should not be your goal in life whether you're a man or a woman. People are so easily ignoring that they also mentioned their brothers in the conversation about what they should do with their lives. It wasn't about hating work outside the home. She just said that they're trying to live their lives to bring God glory. For a lot of Christian women, that means using their unique skills in the home, but God calls everyone to different things. That's why they don't look down on NICU nurses. They believe that God is using them to save babies like Josie and bring more people to Jesus by showing what miracles God can work with willing stewards of his gifts.

So what Jill is saying here is not as offensive as some are trying to believe and certainly not cause for discrimination complaints. She doesn't want to encourage being a "career woman" because that implies a woman who puts her career before God. In this thread alone, I've seen people talking about their career goals and achievements with pride, as if it makes them betted than Jill because she doesn't have career goals or achievements. Jill would argue that you are putting your pride before God, feeding it with God's gifts (he gave you that job, he allowed you to rock that presentation, he supported you through that exam, etc) and not thanking him or giving him credit. In her statement, she's encorhaging people to put God before anything else in their lives. To her, I'm sure being a stay at home mom seems like the least prideful job ever, serving Jesus by making babies and raising them to be disciples.

I don't neccessarily agree with Jill, but I think people on here try to make her more malicious than she is. She's just living according to her code, not discriminating of dissing anyone else.

One of the things that is important in understanding why the Duggars do what they do is to look at what they feel they must believe in order to get to Heaven. Sadly these are god-fearing (not loving) people so that is their motivation.

If you are a Christian who truly believes in Biblical gender norms, then a career woman is the worst thing you can be. A career woman supports herself and that requires limiting her family (can't take care of infants while at work). At best a career woman is supporting her husband, but that just means an idle man (in their belief structure). The only family system they can believe in is one where the man IS career-oriented (look at Josh, JD, Derrick, and Ben). This naturally leaves women out from the role.

We know this is what they believe because their preaching hints at it and their practice totally gives it away.

[SassyPants]

One of the things that is important in understanding why the Duggars do what they do is to look at what they feel they must believe in order to get to Heaven. Sadly these are god-fearing (not loving) people so that is their motivation.

If you are a Christian who truly believes in Biblical gender norms, then a career woman is the worst thing you can be. A career woman supports herself and that requires limiting her family (can't take care of infants while at work). At best a career woman is supporting her husband, but that just means an idle man (in their belief structure). The only family system they can believe in is one where the man IS career-oriented (look at Josh, JD, Derrick, and Ben). This naturally leaves women out from the role.

We know this is what they believe because their preaching hints at it and their practice totally gives it away.

BUT JB made all his daughters, his wife and mother career women. Can the headship overrule God's plan? Are all the Duggar females now doomed because JB decided to make them career women?

[Letgo]

Don't they view the show as a type of mission? An outreach to the unsaved? The show is not a career for Michelle and the girls, but is a means to witness to others.

[sadiZ]

Don't they view the show as a type of mission? An outreach to the unsaved? The show is not a career for Michelle and the girls, but is a means to witness to others.

Exactly. They've even said that the show is a way to spread their message and their convictions to the world. None of them would ever call what they are doing with the show a career.

[SassyPants]

Don't they view the show as a type of mission? An outreach to the unsaved? The show is not a career for Michelle and the girls, but is a means to witness to others.

I think the paycheck negates the "mission" angle.

[sadiZ]

I think the paycheck negates the "mission" angle.

Well obviously they are big hypocrites. If it were truly just about their "mission" then they would do it for free. But they will never admit that is the case. Point being: we sane people realize this is a career, but the Duggars will always say it is about their "testimony", not the gravy train.

[formergothardite]

Yes, absolutely.

Sometimes feeling convicted to do something can get distorted and, when you're looking at so many people, it's likely that at least half of them are not actually feeling convicted by God, but are doing whatever is least scary or easiest in their current position. It's a lot easier to say "wow I feel convicted to be an actress" if your parents are in show business. Likewise, it's a lot easier for the Duggars to feel convicted to be stay at home mothers and wives because their mother has done that. Same thing with Josh doing the whole used car lot thing - maybe he felt convicted to go into politics, but it was easier for him to do used car sales because he could rely on his dad's expertise. The Duggars would argue that God knew Josh would not listen to his original conviction because he is a sinful human and so he used the car lot to teach Josh valuable lessons before he was ready to muster up the courage to move away and start something new.

So yeah, they may all be saying that they feel convicted exactly the same way now, but it's likely that they'll grow and mature in their faith as they get older and will be more ready to listen to and follow all of the convictions they feel instead of just the easy ones.

But also they could grow and mature away from the true nature of God and toward legalism and be totally horrible.

Well since ATI is against women working outside the home I'm going to guess that the Duggars actually would frown on any of their children becoming career women. I think that all the daughters "choosing" to not go to college and have a career is not only because working outside the home is scary for them but because they have been raised to see women having a career as a horrible sin.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

When I was at EXCEL(an ATI even for those who don't know) I was there with a woman who used to be an ICU nurse. Her family joined ATI and guilted her into quitting her job, moving home and trying to find an ATI approved job. They Duggars might not look down on a NICU nurse, but they would look down on any of THEIR daughters becoming one.

[SPHASH]

What do they think about women like Sarah Palin and Phyllis Schlafly, who are "good Christian women" who work extensively outside the home? How do they function in a society that (for the most part) values and promotes working women?

Sarah Palin has never worked a day in her life. While mayor of Wasilla she hired a city manager to do the job she was elected to do. As Gov she would arrive at the office late, then leave early. She was absent so much the legislators wore "Where's Sarah?" Buttons. Of course she ended up quitting that job. Now she spends all her time on reality shows, insulting people who actually have a job at the SNL 40th anniversary party, grifting through SarahPac, and spewing hatred at President Obama on FOX News and Facebook. And she certainly isn't a Christian.

[nastyhobbitses]

Sarah Palin has never worked a day in her life. While mayor of Wasilla she hired a city manager to do the job she was elected to do. As Gov she would arrive at the office late, then leave early. She was absent so much the legislators wore "Where's Sarah?" Buttons. Of course she ended up quitting that job. Now she spends all her time on reality shows, insulting people who actually have a job at the SNL 40th anniversary party, grifting through SarahPac, and spewing hatred at President Obama on FOX News and Facebook. And she certainly isn't a Christian.

Very true. Though still, she is downright non-traditional by their standards of what career choices a woman ought to have.

[HereticHick]

Being self employed is very hard. DO any of these clowns in this family get that?

It takes a LOT of hard work (something they are allergic to) and I'm pretty sure a good serving of luck is involved.

We can't all have TLC.

Damn straight. And most self employed people don't get to gallivant around the world all the time like Duggars (and, increasingly, Bates) do. Small business owners I know work LONG hours WITHOUT VACATIONS. Going on vacation=no income for those days. They don't get to, for example, stop towing cars or trimming trees or mowing lawns whenever they want to fly to visit the Bates or board the family bus for yet another field trip/rally/wedding.

Granted, Jim Bob has iincome streams (like cell phone towers) that bring in income even when he's travelling. But he can't set up every Duggarling (and whatever man-boys they might marry) with a similar set of investments.