'not just be a career woman'

[lavender]

Have you seen Ruth Dunley's youtube video entitled Growing Up Duggar?

It's a hangout with Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger to answer fan questions and promote their book.

Jill and Jessa dominate the conversation of course.

At the 14:54 mark, Jessa was supposed to be answering a question about going to college, but steers the conversation to boast about being a missionary and doing the work of Jesus. Then Jill interrupts with "yeahhh, not go out there and just be Career Women." (Followed by a sourpuss face.)

 

I really think they've been brainwashed into thinking that learning a profession or trade and becoming self sufficient precludes being able to "help" others, (although I think proselytizing is offensive and not helpful.) Like having a job is selfish because you are earning money for yourself and every moment should be about others or Jesus.

I mean do they really think that missionary work can support their family?

Delusional.

[lavender]

[artdecades]

"The Career Woman" is a Duggar boogeyman. Name a cause and the career woman is responsible. Shes promiscuous. She aborts babies. She is a lesbian. She is atheist. Whatever.

[SassyPants]

"The Career Woman" is a Duggar boogeyman. Name a cause and the career woman is responsible. Shes promiscuous. She aborts babies. She is a lesbian. She is atheist. Whatever.

She is a threat to Gothardism and the patriarchal BS of that cult.

[anjulibai]

I don't think they understand what a career is.

Because Jill and Jessa, and Michelle, have careers. They are not housewives in any sort of traditional sense.

I wonder if they read The Handmaid's Tale, would they be able to see themselves in Serena Joy?

[SassyPants]

I don't think they understand what a career is.

Because Jill and Jessa, and Michelle, have careers. They are not housewives in any sort of traditional sense.

I wonder if they read The Handmaid's Tale, would they be able to see themselves in Serena Joy?

LOL- you are absolutely correct. They get paid for living their lives on the screen, which is not at all traditional.

They do not cook, clean, garden, tend to animals, raise chickens for eggs. Michelle never cloth diapered her kids, despite the fact she had a person doing the family's laundry for a good long time.

If they were such traditional women, they would not be requesting restaurant gift cards on gift registries.

[nastyhobbitses]

How do they feel about the "career women" who produce their show, interview them on television, book and coordinate their exorbitant and wasteful trips around the world, renew their passports for said trips, save the life of their baby sister, clean their teeth, deliver their baby siblings, bag their groceries, plan their weddings, do their nails, program the apps they use on their phones, run some of the companies they buy stuff from (for example, the CEOs of Campbell's Soup, Xerox, Yahoo, Pepsi, and General Motors are all women), and interpret the laws of their country?

What goes through their heads when they see women who work outside the home and have happy, fulfilling marriages and lives either because of or in spite of their careers? What do they think about women like Sarah Palin and Phyllis Schlafly, who are "good Christian women" who work extensively outside the home? How do they function in a society that (for the most part) values and promotes working women?

I'm just so boggled by this because I was raised by two lawyers (well, one lawyer and one lawyer-turned-housewife-turned-politician-turned-activist) and was expected to have at MINIMUM a summer job every year starting when I was 15. I was taught to value and love work, and to wear the badge of "career woman" with pride. I just don't understand why they think they can turn up their noses at, well, most women.

[SassyPants]

How do they feel about the "career women" who produce their show, interview them on television, book and coordinate their exorbitant and wasteful trips around the world, renew their passports for said trips, save the life of their baby sister, clean their teeth, deliver their baby siblings, bag their groceries, plan their weddings, do their nails, program the apps they use on their phones, run some of the companies they buy stuff from (for example, the CEOs of Campbell's Soup, Xerox, Yahoo, Pepsi, and General Motors are all women), and interpret the laws of their country?

What goes through their heads when they see women who work outside the home and have happy, fulfilling marriages and lives either because of or in spite of their careers? What do they think about women like Sarah Palin and Phyllis Schlafly, who are "good Christian women" who work extensively outside the home? How do they function in a society that (for the most part) values and promotes working women?

I'm just so boggled by this because I was raised by two lawyers (well, one lawyer and one lawyer-turned-housewife-turned-politician-turned-activist) and was expected to have at MINIMUM a summer job every year starting when I was 15. I was taught to value and love work, and to wear the badge of "career woman" with pride. I just don't understand why they think they can turn up their noses at, well, most women.

I am on the backside of 50 and was raised in a fairly traditional home (Catholic school educated). It was instilled in me that I must be educated and must be able to care and provide for myself, period.

The Duggar's outlook and approach is just foreign to me. The thought of marrying my daughter off to a 19yo, uneducated, unemployed teenager just does not compute.

[DGayle]

How do they feel about the "career women" who produce their show, interview them on television, book and coordinate their exorbitant and wasteful trips around the world, renew their passports for said trips, save the life of their baby sister, clean their teeth, deliver their baby siblings, bag their groceries, plan their weddings, do their nails, program the apps they use on their phones, run some of the companies they buy stuff from (for example, the CEOs of Campbell's Soup, Xerox, Yahoo, Pepsi, and General Motors are all women), and interpret the laws of their country?

What goes through their heads when they see women who work outside the home and have happy, fulfilling marriages and lives either because of or in spite of their careers? What do they think about women like Sarah Palin and Phyllis Schlafly, who are "good Christian women" who work extensively outside the home? How do they function in a society that (for the most part) values and promotes working women?

I'm just so boggled by this because I was raised by two lawyers (well, one lawyer and one lawyer-turned-housewife-turned-politician-turned-activist) and was expected to have at MINIMUM a summer job every year starting when I was 15. I was taught to value and love work, and to wear the badge of "career woman" with pride. I just don't understand why they think they can turn up their noses at, well, most women.

I don't think they work with women on the show. I'm certain I read that the crew is all men because that's what the Duggars wanted.

The rest? Hypocrisy. Like Zsu calling men in the women's health and birthing industry perverts, but then calling her own neonatal surgeon, who is a part of that very industry, a good guy.

[Letgo]

How do they feel about the "career women" who produce their show, interview them on television, book and coordinate their exorbitant and wasteful trips around the world, renew their passports for said trips, save the life of their baby sister, clean their teeth, deliver their baby siblings, bag their groceries, plan their weddings, do their nails, program the apps they use on their phones, run some of the companies they buy stuff from (for example, the CEOs of Campbell's Soup, Xerox, Yahoo, Pepsi, and General Motors are all women), and interpret the laws of their country?

What goes through their heads when they see women who work outside the home and have happy, fulfilling marriages and lives either because of or in spite of their careers? What do they think about women like Sarah Palin and Phyllis Schlafly, who are "good Christian women" who work extensively outside the home? How do they function in a society that (for the most part) values and promotes working women?

I'm just so boggled by this because I was raised by two lawyers (well, one lawyer and one lawyer-turned-housewife-turned-politician-turned-activist) and was expected to have at MINIMUM a summer job every year starting when I was 15. I was taught to value and love work, and to wear the badge of "career woman" with pride. I just don't understand why they think they can turn up their noses at, well, most women.

I have always wondered about this, too. Some of the people who tended Miracle Baby Josie in the NICU were women. Josie might not have made it without the expert care of the nurses there. Women should not have careers and yet career women save lives, including Josie's and Michelle's. How do they reconcile that fact?

The bolding above is mine. I bet they don't think those women are truly happy. Or else that their families aren't. A woman's place is at home, having as many babies as possible, period. They really believe that is what the Lord intended for ALL women, so how can women have careers and be happy and fulfilled NOT doing what they were meant to do?

[Maggie Mae]

I don't think they think these things through. They probably don't think about women other than themselves very often.

I know I don't think about the CEO of any company, unless I'm specifically reading an article about that person. So that doesn't surprise me. They were told their entire life not to think about things too much.

[lascuba]

They're also confused about missionary "work"--they seem to think they are at all useful when they go to on their poverty porn trips.

Those girl aren't brainwashed at this point, people. They are nasty pieces of shit who know exactly what to say to sell their brand.

[calimojo]

Oh my that was painful to watch. In fact, Jana and Jinger's smiles actually looked painful for them, especially Jana's. Jinger looked zoned out most of the time and Chatty Jill was a mess and poor Jessa trying to sound intelligent.

And Did anyone catch the Jessa said she did a semester (or was it a year) of college? Really?

And Jill claimed she was in college, but I don't think doing the lay midwife training is not the same thing as being in college. It is more of a trade training, not college. I mean did she actually have classes, with objectives and syllabus? Did she take an ACT test?

[Letgo]

They're also confused about missionary "work"--they seem to think they are at all useful when they go to on their poverty porn trips.

Those girl aren't brainwashed at this point, people. They are nasty pieces of shit who know exactly what to say to sell their brand.

How do you think they are not brainwashed? They are the products of their environment. Their upbringing was highly controlled and they were isolated. It may be less so today because of the TV show, but for the older children it was very rigid. They believe their "brand" is the right one. I doubt they even think of it in that way; it is not as if they have attended a college business course to learn about branding. Or any other college class. College Minus does not count. Everything they do is because they truly believe it is the Lord's will, in their minds.

They KNOW that Catholics are not Christians and must be saved. Critical thinking is not their strength. Their mission trips ARE helpful because the heathens are being exposed to the correct message. Plus Jim Bob gets to practice-o his Spanish-o.

I still keep hoping that Derick will be able to begin easing Jill away from Gothardism, at the very least. I pray it does not end up the other way around. And I hope the prospect of endless children keeps Jessa from adhering to Gothardism and the quiverfull mindset.

[SassyPants]

How do you think they are not brainwashed? They are the products of their environment. Their upbringing was highly controlled and they were isolated. It may be less so today because of the TV show, but for the older children it was very rigid. They believe their "brand" is the right one. I doubt they even think of it in that way; it is not as if they have attended a college business course to learn about branding. Or any other college class. College Minus does not count. Everything they do is because they truly believe it is the Lord's will, in their minds.

They KNOW that Catholics are not Christians and must be saved. Critical thinking is not their strength. Their mission trips ARE helpful because the heathens are being exposed to the correct message. Plus Jim Bob gets to practice-o his Spanish-o.

I still keep hoping that Derick will be able to begin easing Jill away from Gothardism, at the very least. I pray it does not end up the other way around. And I hope the prospect of endless children keeps Jessa from adhering to Gothardism and the quiverfull mindset.

No, I just think that all the adult Duggars are very selective, which only makes them more reprehensible, IMO. If they REALLY believed all the crap that they spew, they'd stick to the original plan. NO TV, certainly not earning a living from selling the family to a TV network, living like sardines in the debt free home, wearing frumpers, crappy shoes, avoiding all technology, buying used and saving the difference. No, what the Duggars are= lazy, manipulative opportunists.

They make crap up and have convictions that blow with the breeze. The children speak of modesty and then make gift registries that include 10,000s of dollars worth of items. Each of the girls was gifted a car to drive, yet they are never allowed to go anywhere alone-

We could go on and on.

The man is the headship and must be financially secure, yet they allowed Jessa to marry an unemployed teenager.

Con-artists comes to mind.

[nastyhobbitses]

I have always wondered about this, too. Some of the people who tended Miracle Baby Josie in the NICU were women. Josie might not have made it without the expert care of the nurses there. Women should not have careers and yet career women save lives, including Josie's and Michelle's. How do they reconcile that fact?

The bolding above is mine. I bet they don't think those women are truly happy. Or else that their families aren't. A woman's place is at home, having as many babies as possible, period. They really believe that is what the Lord intended for ALL women, so how can women have careers and be happy and fulfilled NOT doing what they were meant to do?

It makes me so sad and angry that they probably gushed thank-yous and such to the female NICU nurses who tended to Josie and made sure that she survived each day, but in their hearts, they look down on those women as unhappy, cold, bad at motherhood/wifehood, or not truly godly women (even though the work they do is more exemplary of the mercy, charity, faith, and sacrifice that their faith promotes than anything the Duggar girls do).

[DefrauderDaughter]

As I've mentioned previously, my father is a preacher who likes to spew nonsense similar to what the Duggar's believe. In our denomination (shh, don't tell anyone I called it a denomination-I'll go to hell!) they teach that women should aspire to be "Proverbs 31 women". The woman in Proverbs 31, however, is made out to be a housewife, although it clearly says that she "maketh fine linens and selleth it". This was the Old Testament, women and men primarily worked in the fields and made and sold things-they didn't go to college and have careers!

I was raised by a working single parent but I never really desired to have a career. I'd like to be a SAHM, but I know that that might not be practical and I may have to work. The difference between myself and the Duggar girls is that being a career woman is an option for me, it's not for them.

[sorchah]

Ok, I know this is the Duggars, but what I got from what Jill says is "don't just focus on money and personal gains." They are talking about what to do with their lives, ministering and counseling and whatever bullshit to "help others." Think about it in context.

I say this not as a leghumper. I fully believe that their idea of ministry is mostly to massage their own inflated egos and that their actual goal in life is to make babies who fit their family brand.

[RosyDaisy]

At some point the brainwashing excuse isn't going to fly for the Duggars. They have traveled and been exposed to different things. Mama and Daddy may have told them about the big bad world. But, when they travel, they see things that aren't as bad as they were told.

[Rescinded and Mended]

Also, three of them are married now, which means they can decide for themselves what media they wish to be influenced by and what new experiences they wish to have. Parroting the party line at this late stage on television just means it will net them a hefty payday, even if they do still believe parts of it.

[morri]

It takes a long time of exposure to get id of the brainwash. If they lived in tibet for a year like that dillard i thgink they would budge but if they only go on "charity" tours to poor unassuming people in less prosperous countries they wont get better.

[BrownieMomma]

I didn't watch the vid but I've heard enough of similar talk from people IRL to know where they come from.

Duggar maturity level is that of a child. Children do not understand that they should be grateful to have the home, food, clothes, toys, etc that they have. It is just life as they understand it. Gratitude is learned and sometimes not until they have children themselves do they truly understand the sacrifices made on their behalf.

The Duggars just don't get it. This is why I have questioned, in the past, what do they expect to happen if the headship dies, becomes disabled, or lies in coma for a few years? Much less should headship decide to head for greener pastures.

They have no way of any true understanding of what it means to be a career woman. Or a woman who doesn't necessarily have a "career" but "just a job" - it's not always about material gain or personal gain that women, wives, and mothers work. Sometimes its just about the food on the table or clothes on the backs.

I wonder how Derick's female colleagues take it if they learn of Jill publicly making such statements against working women. I think I would start to harbor some negative feelings to Mr. Dillard for espousing that attitude.

I am almost positive that they will never lump Michelle's traveling or appearances or "bookwriting" as work because they almost always mean employment, much less their own. Gee, where would Jill have gotten her training as a fake midwife if Venessa (sp) did not "work?"

I know the answer to this already. God blessed them to be exceptional and it's okay from them to do their type of work whereas all the women who get up and go to a workplace are just clearly not real Christians.

[lascuba]

Bottom line: Once someone is actively pursuing making money out of their beliefs, the "brainwashed" excuse doesn't fly. Because you can't make money out of a belief system if you truly believe the shit your spewing. It's takes a certain savviness and ability to manipulate and narcissism to be successful in that field, and you can't possess those qualities and abilities while being a true believer.

[MatthewDuggar]

They have no way of any true understanding of what it means to be a career woman. Or a woman who doesn't necessarily have a "career" but "just a job" - it's not always about material gain or personal gain that women, wives, and mothers work. Sometimes its just about the food on the table or clothes on the backs.

I wonder how Derick's female colleagues take it if they learn of Jill publicly making such statements against working women. I think I would start to harbor some negative feelings to Mr. Dillard for espousing that attitude.

Not to be a Jill apologist, but I think we're getting a little carried away regarding a simple statement she made and we'll coming up with an entire mindset on how she thinks based on that one statement.

I am sure Jill would agree that there is no reason why a woman should not work if she has to, such as if her husband were not capable or if he were to pass away.

It would also take someone pretty intolerant in Derrick's workforce to be that heavily bothered by her opinion. I work with plenty of people who have viewpoints that I feel are awful, but that's life, we get along and don't have to see eye to eye on every little matter.

[BrownieMomma]

Not to be a Jill apologist, but I think we're getting a little carried away regarding a simple statement she made and we'll coming up with an entire mindset on how she thinks based on that one statement.

I am sure Jill would agree that there is no reason why a woman should not work if she has to, such as if her husband were not capable or if he were to pass away.

It would also take someone pretty intolerant in Derrick's workforce to be that heavily bothered by her opinion. I work with plenty of people who have viewpoints that I feel are awful, but that's life, we get along and don't have to see eye to eye on every little matter.

I have been aware of this mentality for something like 30 years now. I have heard that exact phrase for many years in certain Christian circles. Not SBC, but more conservative. It is indeed an "I am better than you" mentality and at some point Jill is going to need to become responsible for her own words. The "I grew up brainwashed and its all I've ever known" is not going to fly esp when she married someone who grew up differntly, and as an adult, made more conventional choices such as higher education at a state university.

Oh my, so now it makes me intolerant that I would not liking working with a man whose wife is PUBLICLY making statements that devalue me as an employed person. I have never attempted to ferret out my colleagues private thoughts on such matters as working mothers, but I have worked with a few men who were known churchgoers with SAHW&M. They were wise enough to keep their low opinion of me as a working woman to themselves and they sure as hell didn't broadcast it in a published video.

These people believe my only worth and value as a woman, as a "real" Christian, is in popping out babies and making TTC. For which you must be married. Or then I should get my oldest daughters to do it while ofc denying said daughters any kind of real education or in fact, any way to support themselves in the real world as adults. That's not a little matter.

I would howl in protest if someone like Derick Dillard was in charge of me, a woman, in decisions of employment. If he never publicly says anything, not much I can do about it, but since his wife went public, is he going to distance himself from her? I'd be dropping discrimination charges hard and fast because likely Mr. Dillard is going to view his female co-workers and/or subordinates in a much different light than the males.

Oh well. Undoubtedly Jill is going to get her way and get Derick out of conventional employment to working for himself.