Mormons Now Support Gay Rights

[Idolatry]

The Mormon Church has announced it supports legislation protecting LGBT rights, but also wants religiously-based discrimination against those reprobates. Obviously.

(ABC) http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/morm ... ePage=true

(CNN) http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/27/us/mormon ... lgbt-laws/

(New York Times) http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/28/us/mo ... .html?_r=0

(Salt Lake Tribune) http://www.sltrib.com/home/2106982-155/ ... stles-call

"When religious people are publicly intimidated, retaliated against, forced from employment or made to suffer personal loss because they have raised their voice in the public square, donated to a cause or participated in an election, our democracy is the loser."

Nobody likes it when even the Southern Baptist Convention calls you "naive."

[Georgiana]

"Mormon leaders still want to hire and fire workers based on their religious beliefs as well as behavior standards known as honor codes, which require gays and lesbians to remain celibate or marry someone of the opposite sex. The church also wants legal protections for religious objectors who work in government and health care, such as a physician who refuses to perform an abortion, or provide artificial insemination for a lesbian couple."

I'm tolerant of most religions as I find them equally wonderful/silly, but I have a deep and abiding distaste for Mormonism. Maybe it's because they try to dictate the history of my race for me, maybe it's because they tell me my skin color is a curse from God, or maybe it's because their religion is up there with Scientology as "obviously pretty much made up".

Whatever the reason, sometimes I do feel bad for categorically disliking a religion. Then they do things like this, and I'm OK with it again.

THANKS, MORMON CHURCH!

[KittenMitten]

No, they don't. But it sounds pretty.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

Mr. Oaks was on NPR the other day whining about how the church is the "real victim" here, because after they fought to literally break up people's families they were criticized and it hurt their feelings. You can listen here if you would like to throw up in your mouth this morning: http://www.npr.org/2015/01/29/382463494 ... skepticism

He also refuses to answer questions about whether he would guide his followers to refuse to serve gay patrons in their businesses, and implies that Robert Siegel is being a bully for asking him about it. Support for gay rights, my ass.

[nomoxian]

or maybe it's because their religion is up there with Scientology as "obviously pretty much made up"

I was raised LDS / Mormon and when I first heard about Scientology and that "they don't believe in God" I was like COOL. Around 6th grade I saw the front lobby of one of their buildings and saw a big cross on the wall, and ever since then I thought Scientology was bullshit.

I wasn't aware of their beliefs at the time, but after hearing about [censored!!!] I honestly think it makes more sense than any other faith. I just don't agree with their anti-LGBT stance or how they make people pay a bunch of money to take part in their activities.

[DGayle]

"Mormon leaders still want to hire and fire workers based on their religious beliefs as well as behavior standards known as honor codes, which require gays and lesbians to remain celibate or marry someone of the opposite sex. The church also wants legal protections for religious objectors who work in government and health care, such as a physician who refuses to perform an abortion, or provide artificial insemination for a lesbian couple."

I'm tolerant of most religions as I find them equally wonderful/silly, but I have a deep and abiding distaste for Mormonism. Maybe it's because they try to dictate the history of my race for me, maybe it's because they tell me my skin color is a curse from God, or maybe it's because their religion is up there with Scientology as "obviously pretty much made up".

Whatever the reason, sometimes I do feel bad for categorically disliking a religion. Then they do things like this, and I'm OK with it again.

THANKS, MORMON CHURCH!

I don't think doctors should be required to provide ALL services on an elective basis, but if they do do X, then they should be allowed to pick and choose and deny protected classes. But if a doctor just plain doesn't do a service, they should be required to refer a patient to someone who does. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want a personal and delicate procedure of any sort done on me by a doctor who's only doing it because he has to do that procedure by law, even if it's one he doesn't want to do on anyone at all. There are so many areas of medicine that I'd rather go to someone who specializes in that area. Do you trust an OB/GYN to know more about birth control, or your podiatrist?

But if it's an emergency, then anything a doctor objects to should be set aside.

[DGayle]

Mormons are grasping at straws. They know gay marriage is going to happen, so they'll stop actively objecting to it overall (fuck them for what the church collectively did in California!) if they can hold on to a part of discrimination.

If I had a business and wouldn't hire Mormons, they'd scream discrimination.

[16strong]

I'm sorry. I just can't forget what they did with Prop 8. You can't treat people like that and then turn around and say nvm like it never happened. Sorry.

[ADoyle90815]

I'm sorry. I just can't forget what they did with Prop 8. You can't treat people like that and then turn around and say nvm like it never happened. Sorry.

I agree, as I was in California when that went through, and what they did was disgusting. Still, if a Mormon wasn't hired and they figured it was because of their religion, they would be the first to cry about discrimination. Even if it was for a job that required them to work on weekends, including Sundays they would cry about being persecuted. :crying-blue: I mention that because they believe it's a sin to work on Sunday or to "make others work" by shopping or even buying gas on the way to or from church.

[Mama Mia]

I was raised LDS / Mormon and when I first heard about Scientology and that "they don't believe in God" I was like COOL. Around 6th grade I saw the front lobby of one of their buildings and saw a big cross on the wall, and ever since then I thought Scientology was bullshit.

.

Are you sure the cross was in a Scientology lobby? Was it maybe Christian Scientist? I've known a lot of people to confuse the two.

[Hane]

Are you sure the cross was in a Scientology lobby? Was it maybe Christian Scientist? I've known a lot of people to confuse the two.

The Scientology symbol is an embellished cross. My daughter's Scientologist friend wears one. I find their appropriation of the cross as a symbol to be egregiously disingenuous, as if they're trying to weasel themselves into the mainstream.

True anecdote: One day in New Haven, I saw a couple of young women pass by the Christian Science Reading Room. From their conversation, I heard that they were mistaking Christian Science for Scientology. I politely told them that the two groups were entirely different--that Christian Science is basically mainstream Christianity, but with faith-healing. (I learned later that there's a Scientology center a block or so away.)

[Mama Mia]

Thanks for the information Hane. Wow, that surprises me about the Scientology and the cross....definitely shady

[Hane]

Thanks for the information Hane. Wow, that surprises me about the Scientology and the cross....definitely shady

Click here for a Wikipedia article showing a pic of the cross.

[nomoxian]

Are you sure the cross was in a Scientology lobby? Was it maybe Christian Scientist? I've known a lot of people to confuse the two.

This was a huge Scientology building. There was a little restaurant not owned by them in one part of the building, and when it closed down they took over the rest of the place.

I do know about Christian Science as well, since my Grandfather was into that. When I was a kid I thought "Cool; science!" but thankfully even my Christian parents (who let me watch shows like The Simpsons and play violent video games) wouldn't let me go in their bookstore!

[Hane]

I still can't figure out how acceptance of openly gay people is going to square with core Mormon theology, which is clear in teaching that one can only reach the highest status in the Celestial Kingdom through heterosexual marriage. In fact, most Mormon women aren't dedicated in the temple until they're about to get married. (From what I've read, prospective Mormon missionaries of both sexes are dedicated in the temple, but male missionaries far outnumber female missionaries.)

[Mama Mia]

I still can't figure out how acceptance of openly gay people is going to square with core Mormon theology, which is clear in teaching that one can only reach the highest status in the Celestial Kingdom through heterosexual marriage. In fact, most Mormon women aren't dedicated in the temple until they're about to get married. (From what I've read, prospective Mormon missionaries of both sexes are dedicated in the temple, but male missionaries far outnumber female missionaries.)

Oh, they still aren't ok with openly gay Mormons. Unless they are celibate. They were very clear that they still believe sex outside of marriage is wrong, and marriage is between a man and a woman. They just aren't, apparently, still intent on making sure the rest of the world follows their rules. Unless the rest of the world tries to be employed by them, or maybe buy a cake.

[ExMW]

The Scientology symbol is an embellished cross. My daughter's Scientologist friend wears one. I find their appropriation of the cross as a symbol to be egregiously disingenuous, as if they're trying to weasel themselves into the mainstream. )

That's exactly what they're doing. Down in Clearwater more people get lulled into their center by the cross at the top - they think it's some sort of church, they go in to see as a tourist and then the Scientologists won't let them leave until they listen to their spiel. They make people think that they ARE part of the religious mainstream so people will leave them alone.

Honestly, I don't understand how people can be part of a cult where the founder so blatantly stated that the best way to make money was to start your own religion...but then, Mormons believe their founder got the Book of Mormon out of a hat....so I guess if one wants to believe in something they're going to believe in it.

[Georgiana]

I don't think doctors should be required to provide ALL services on an elective basis, but if they do do X, then they should be allowed to pick and choose and deny protected classes. But if a doctor just plain doesn't do a service, they should be required to refer a patient to someone who does. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want a personal and delicate procedure of any sort done on me by a doctor who's only doing it because he has to do that procedure by law, even if it's one he doesn't want to do on anyone at all. There are so many areas of medicine that I'd rather go to someone who specializes in that area. Do you trust an OB/GYN to know more about birth control, or your podiatrist?

But if it's an emergency, then anything a doctor objects to should be set aside.

Right. Private practice is private practice. Do what you want, whatever. However, if you work for a hospital or another organization, they should be able to dictate to you what services you will offer. Sorry, Charlie, but them's the breaks.

This is especially true of pharmacists. If a pharmacist has a religious objection to my antidepressants, he/she can refuse to fill it under the Mormon proposition. Maybe someone else fills it and it is fine. But maybe they too have an objection. Maybe there is no one else there. Why should I be at risk for not being able to obtain my legitimately prescribed medication because YOU don't like it? It's not MY religion. Don't make ME follow YOUR beliefs.

People have jobs, and they need to do them. If your religion gives you serious qualms where you feel uncomfortable doing an aspect of your JOB and you cannot fulfill it, THEN YOU NEED TO FIND A DIFFERENT JOB. Period. End of story. And your employer should be able to FIRE you for it if you aren't wise enough to figure that out on your own.

[Letgo]

I'm sorry. I just can't forget what they did with Prop 8. You can't treat people like that and then turn around and say nvm like it never happened. Sorry.

Why not? They did it with polygamy. Joseph Smith decided it was a great idea and meant for all time. Until it wasn't. And anyone deemed "black" or whatever word they used, was not eligible for the highest priesthood offices. Until they were. See, it totally works!

[Mama Mia]

Right. Private practice is private practice. Do what you want, whatever. However, if you work for a hospital or another organization, they should be able to dictate to you what services you will offer. Sorry, Charlie, but them's the breaks.

This is especially true of pharmacists. If a pharmacist has a religious objection to my antidepressants, he/she can refuse to fill it under the Mormon proposition. Maybe someone else fills it and it is fine. But maybe they too have an objection. Maybe there is no one else there. Why should I be at risk for not being able to obtain my legitimately prescribed medication because YOU don't like it? It's not MY religion. Don't make ME follow YOUR beliefs.

People have jobs, and they need to do them. If your religion gives you serious qualms where you feel uncomfortable doing an aspect of your JOB and you cannot fulfill it, THEN YOU NEED TO FIND A DIFFERENT JOB. Period. End of story. And your employer should be able to FIRE you for it if you aren't wise enough to figure that out on your own.

Seriously the main thing I've learned on FJ, is that access to different goods, services and beliefs - varies widely depending on where you live.

It's very easy for me to live in a medium sized town with a dozen+ pharmacies within a 15 minute drive , and being able to easily assume 99% of those pharmacists won't care what they are filling, to just go with " hey what's the big deal, go to another pharmacy if one won't fill your prescription" . Because from my perspective, it's not a big deal.

But I've realized from reading here, that there are tons of people who live in incredibly conservative, very rural areas, where there might be one pharmacy half an hour drive away. That pharmacy doesn't have anyone on staff who would fill a prescription - And the next town over, an hour away, -- most of the pharmacists there wouldn't fill it either.

[Georgiana]

Seriously the main thing I've learned on FJ, is that access to different goods, services and beliefs - varies widely depending on where you live.

It's very easy for me to live in a medium sized town with a dozen+ pharmacies within a 15 minute drive , and being able to easily assume 99% of those pharmacists won't care what they are filling, to just go with " hey what's the big deal, go to another pharmacy if one won't fill your prescription" . Because from my perspective, it's not a big deal.

But I've realized from reading here, that there are tons of people who live in incredibly conservative, very rural areas, where there might be one pharmacy half an hour drive away. That pharmacy doesn't have anyone on staff who would fill a prescription - And the next town over, an hour away, -- most of the pharmacists there wouldn't fill it either.

One of my medications is technically a controlled substance. Because of this, if my normal pharmacy refuses to fill my prescription, I have to contact my doctors office and have them contact the new pharmacy with the prescription. It cannot just be transferred between pharmacies by me. Only the doctor's office can submit the prescription.

So, if it is after 5:00 (or earlier, depending on my doctor's hours that day) or on a weekend, I might have to wait until the next business day to get my medication. Or go to an urgent care and wait eleventy million hours for someone there to RE WRITE my existing presciption (which is tough to get them to do because they don't like dual prescriptions of controlled substances). And seeing as I generally swing by the pharmacy on my way home from work, this is a very real scenario.

Basically, even in urban areas, denying someone's prescription may result in them being unable to obtain the medicine they need. Even if a pharmacy is physically close, you may not be able to get them to fill your prescription in time if it isn't something they have on hand. I live in a liberal area, but it could only take one or two people to stop me from getting my medication. It's just not something ANYONE should have to worry about.

[Mama Mia]

Oh, yeah, I'm on an on-going prescription that requires a physical, handwritten by the doctor form every 30 days. And I'm disabled and can't drive to pick it up. And the Doctor is a 30 minute drive in the opposite diection of almost all my families commute. And I need to ask for the prescription at exactly the right time for the Doctors office ( he's not part of a group, just one Dr. ) to get him the message to sign it. Get it signed. Arrange for pick up during office hours and get it to the pharmacy before I run out. But can't do it so early that it's dated too soon for refill. Getting that 30 day perscription is a HUGE pita. I could switch Doctors, but it took me forever to find a decent one.

But I think that kind of access issue is different than the one with providers and personal beliefs. Which is still complicated, really.

[Idolatry]

Seriously the main thing I've learned on FJ, is that access to different goods, services and beliefs - varies widely depending on where you live.

It's very easy for me to live in a medium sized town with a dozen+ pharmacies within a 15 minute drive , and being able to easily assume 99% of those pharmacists won't care what they are filling, to just go with " hey what's the big deal, go to another pharmacy if one won't fill your prescription" . Because from my perspective, it's not a big deal.

But I've realized from reading here, that there are tons of people who live in incredibly conservative, very rural areas, where there might be one pharmacy half an hour drive away. That pharmacy doesn't have anyone on staff who would fill a prescription - And the next town over, an hour away, -- most of the pharmacists there wouldn't fill it either.

Yea, I've lived in a major city so long that I kind of take this stuff for granted. But, yea, get your religion out of my pharmacy.

Where I grew up, the local, small town pharmacist refused to fill BIRTH CONTROL for baby jesus sake, so people had to mail it off.

I'd love to see this called what it is, discrimination.