The Bates on GMA....and a special tonight.

[lilwriter85]

I had to comment on their puff piece on ABC's website. Reading "what a great family" comments drives me crazy. As far as I'm concerned the Bates are just as whackadoodles as the Duggars. They are scary.

I hate seeing those types of comments. I figured comments like these were going to be up on ABC's website

Beautiful family. No welfare, or help from the government. They pay their own hospital bills, even if it takes them in installments. We could all learn from this family. Well behaved respectful loving children. God has indeed blessed them. I know I couldn't do it.

Sure the Bateses aren't on welfare or taking food stamps or WIC. But they do take the charity of others. I don't think Gil and Kelly are any better than people on government assistance. Some people on government assistance get off it and they provide for themselves and they sometimes never depend on anyone else for things. The Bateses are going to continue to depend on the charity of others for at least 18-20 years.

What a beautiful family! God has blessed them indeed. The Lord is providing for them because they are living by the word! Praise God

I loathe this type of comment a lot. I'm not trying to be hateful, but honestly it is really others who are helping to provide for the Bates kids. It was people who gave them vans, clothing and other things.

In the comments section on the ABC site, there is some debate between commenters about whether Gil and Kelly pay their medical bills and some woman is claiming that they are on payment plan. But one person did leave a good comment about how irresponsible it is to not have health insurance.

I don't care if they are able to pay every one of those doctor bills out of pocket, it is totally irresponsible to not have health insurance. No one can guarantee they will not have a catastrophic illness or injury that they WILL NOT have the money to pay for. Will they just let that particular family member go with no treatment? I highly doubt it. If they can't afford it, then I guess they can't afford to have so many kids. And while I don't think the gov't should dictate how many kids a family can have, I wish people would realize the problems overpopulation is and will continue to cause this earth.

[bananacat]

The scene where he asked her to court has to be one of the most awkward things I've ever seen....they couldn't leave him alone for that? What if she wanted to say no? I don't think she did, but I don't think it did any of them any favors to have all the gawkers there...

But this is exactly why the do it, so it's really hard for the girl to say no. She technically has veto power, but her dad already decided this was a good idea and discussed it with some other men, so how can she go against that? It's technically her choice, but a highly constrained choice. She's been groomed to obey her entire life and they won't expect her to start saying no now.

However, I do have a problem with big showy proposals in non-fundie life, for the reason you mentioned.

[3 is enough]

I used to think that Gil and Kelly were way better than Jim Bob and Michelle in the parenting department, but seeing that they are mooching off of Lawson changed my mind. How disgusting.

Yes, they appear to interact more with the kids, and Kelly appears to be more of an involved teacher than Michelle, but they are still taking money from a kid!!!

Seriously, Gil, ditch ATI, and the thousands of $$$ a year it costs you, and use the money to buy health insurance for your family. They must still be paying for Kelly's near-death episode after Callie was born.

And did I hear correctly that Kelly gets free care from her obstetrician? It may not be Medicaid, but she's still using resources paid for by someone else.

Zach is courting, and has to borrow money from his younger brother? How the hell is he going to support Sarah?

I always thought the oldest daughter's name was pronounced " Mi-KAY-lah", but it's "MICHAEL-a". How odd. And why did she have a bow in her hair like a 6-year-old?

[formergothardite]

I don't have time to watch right now, but what tough questions did they ask?

[JenniferJuniper]

Talk about an utter garbage fluff piece. I should think even someone who knows nothing about these QF nutters would have walked away scratching his head. Who wouldn't want to live like them? Try asking who WOULD want to live like them. Much easier to count the hands that way.

And them being like Ozze and Harriett in the 1950's? Ozzie and Harriett had two kids and one was a rock and roll star. Try the 1850's when free child farmhands were all the rage.

How about Gil seeming to be proud of having no health insurance whatsoever for a family of 20 and grinning like an idiot when he says emergency rooms have to treat you no matter what.

I truly despair over the state of journalism in this country.

Free Lawson. He needs to lose his moocher parents and siblings in a hurry.

[xReems]

"Hi, we're Gil and Kelly Bates. We don't believe in health insurance, debt, nor credit cards, but we do live off of one of son's income which is perfectly okay!"

Are fundies anti-government? Covenant weddings, no health insurance, no credit cards, etc that they preach sounds like they're completely against government support. Yet it's perfectly okay to mooch off of their son. Awesome. Great job, family! Way to teach your children how to survive in the world.

I think after last night, I have lost tremendous respect for this family. I really thought they were a tad bit better than the Duggars but they're just as worst.

[freehannie]

I was really annoyed with Gil's discussion of families in the past that had 10 or 11 kids and managed to get by with a lot less. My grandparents were all children in these kinds of families. My grandfather dropped out of school in the 6th grade to start working in order to help financially (and sometimes stole food because he was so hungry). My grandmother made it to 8th grade before she had to drop out and give almost all her wages to her mother in order to help support her younger siblings. At least at the time as adults they were able to find a job without an education thanks to the automotive factories. My grandfather's sister was so exhausted raising her siblings that she never married or had kids of her own. To quote her, "I already raised a family."

While I am appalled to hear Lawson is loaning everyone money, at least it's providing a level of stability for the younger kids. He can help fill in the gaps when Gil doesn't have the money and they consistently have food, transportation, etc. If I were Lawson, I would rather loan them money than have a chaotic situation in the home. But I'd be annoyed to loan them money for groceries while they spend 400 dollars on gas to go to the ATI conference. If the lawn business is more lucrative than the tree business, maybe they should all switch to lawn care.

What I still don't get is why they don't grow their own food, hang their laundry on the line, and make food from scratch in order to save money. On 19 Kids and Counting, when they remodeled the house, the contractor built them a chicken coop. Did anyone see if they were using it? I also noted that the special didn't mention that the house had recently been remodeled through the charity of others and they could never have afforded it otherwise.

[Trynn]

I was really annoyed with Gil's discussion of families in the past that had 10 or 11 kids and managed to get by with a lot less. My grandparents were all children in these kinds of families. My grandfather dropped out of school in the 6th grade to start working in order to help financially (and sometimes stole food because he was so hungry). My grandmother made it to 8th grade before she had to drop out and give almost all her wages to her mother in order to help support her younger siblings. At least at the time as adults they were able to find a job without an education thanks to the automotive factories. My grandfather's sister was so exhausted raising her siblings that she never married or had kids of her own. To quote her, "I already raised a family."

Not to mention the fact that way back when, not every baby managed to actually survived to adulthood. Thus parents might've had more kids, but to gauge success you would also have to look at whether or not they survived beyond the age of 5.

What I still don't get is why they don't grow their own food, hang their laundry on the line, and make food from scratch in order to save money. On 19 Kids and Counting, when they remodeled the house, the contractor built them a chicken coop. Did anyone see if they were using it? I also noted that the special didn't mention that the house had recently been remodeled through the charity of others and they could never have afforded it otherwise.

I didn't understand that either. Most of the conservative people *I* know of are doing these things, and these families are supposed to be the ultimate conservative, which is why I didn't understand. The Duggars do have a garden, but it's a small one. Granted it would take money to get that sort of thing started, but in the long run it'd probably pay off.

[slickcat79]

Having Lawson "lend" money to the rest of the family sets a really bad precedent too. He's not even the oldest child, but he's the one everyone's coming to for money? It seems like lots of families have that one person who will "fix" everything, and all of the siblings/cousins/other relatives will come to them for everything they need if they get in a bind. If Lawson's handing out money to his older relatives as a teen, how will he ever get away from it? What if Zac does marry Sarah, they pop out a bunch of kids and hit a rough economic patch? Zac would probably think nothing of hitting up his brother for a loan, and if it means providing food for children who are related to him, would Lawson ever consider saying no? Taking loans from family members is not a sustainable system, and it can really lay the groundwork for anger and resentment later.

I also use the term "loan" in the broadest possible sense. I doubt that most (if any) of the money will ever be paid back. When will Erin ever be in a situation where she is earning enough money on her own to pay back the thousands Lawson ponied up for her college classes? Or take the $400 grocery bill as an example. Lawson bought food for the entire family, but he ate the food too, so would he even consider asking his parents to pay him back for that? Probably not. All of the Bates kids have been providing unpaid labor for the family since they were old enough to hold a broom, so I doubt Gil and Kelly would consider contributing their money to the family pot to be wrong. They probably wouldn't be so up front about it otherwise.

[notsocommon]

How about Gil seeming to be proud of having no health insurance whatsoever for a family of 20 and grinning like an idiot when he says emergency rooms have to treat you no matter what.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Betcha he votes for people who would gleefully put a stop to ERs treating people who can't afford to pay.

[Patsy]

I also noted that the special didn't mention that the house had recently been remodeled through the charity of others and they could never have afforded it otherwise.

Mm. Why not show the crowded, dark little house from before? Without huge amounts of charity, their lives are miserable, and even Michelle admits that for her family, they used to get bags of clothes left on the front door by anonymous charitable people. Show the audience that miserable little house from before and then ask who'd want to live like that.

[Lianachu]

I was just watching the episode of 18 Kids and Counting when the Duggars go and visit the Bates (and start the remodel) and found it ironic when Gil was joking with one of the little boys about using his bank account to buy the groceries.

[lizzy]

I missed it. Is it online?

http://www.hulu.com/primetime-nightline

Season 1 Episode 10

[lilwriter85]

I used to think that Gil and Kelly were way better than Jim Bob and Michelle in the parenting department, but seeing that they are mooching off of Lawson changed my mind. How disgusting.

Yes, they appear to interact more with the kids, and Kelly appears to be more of an involved teacher than Michelle, but they are still taking money from a kid!!!

Seriously, Gil, ditch ATI, and the thousands of $$$ a year it costs you, and use the money to buy health insurance for your family. They must still be paying for Kelly's near-death episode after Callie was born.

And did I hear correctly that Kelly gets free care from her obstetrician? It may not be Medicaid, but she's still using resources paid for by someone else.

Zach is courting, and has to borrow money from his younger brother? How the hell is he going to support Sarah?

I always thought the oldest daughter's name was pronounced " Mi-KAY-lah", but it's "MICHAEL-a". How odd. And why did she have a bow in her hair like a 6-year-old?

I used to find Gil and Kelly more likable than Boob and Mullet. Last night my opinion change. I agree Kelly seems more involved as a teacher than Michelle. It was said that Kelly get free ob/gyn care from a Christian clinic.

I also thought the oldest girl's name was pronounced Mi-KAY-lah.

[lilwriter85]

Not to mention the fact that way back when, not every baby managed to actually survived to adulthood. Thus parents might've had more kids, but to gauge success you would also have to look at whether or not they survived beyond the age of 5.

I was also annoyed when Gil made the comment about past larger families getting by with less. Things were different back then and in some families not every child reach adulthood. Also like freehannie mentioned, years ago some kids were dropping out school to either help care for younger siblings or help support their families. Also Gil said those past families turned out ok and I was annoyed when he said that too, because likely not everyone from a large family was completely with their lives and probably some people wanted to have better education or maybe they wanted to experience other things but couldn't because of caring for siblings or helping support their family. My maternal grandma only had an 8th grade education and she always told people she wished could have had at least a high school diploma.

The special hid a lot of things about the family and isn't surprising. Gil and Kelly probably know about the critics the Duggars have. I agree I also don't why don't at least garden. They should at least hang half of their laundry on the line.

[Jessica]

I was really annoyed with Gil's discussion of families in the past that had 10 or 11 kids and managed to get by with a lot less.

They also mostly lived on farms where they grew their own food and cooked from scratch so they weren't having to buy convenience foods (remember that clip of them going shopping buying mostly soda and chips?) and spend $1000+ on groceries. They used cloth diapers and hung their laundry to dry so they weren't spending $20+ a week (per child still in diapers) plus the electricity bill for the dryer. They didn't belong to expensive homeschool clubs. Live on less if you want to. Forego the internet and cable and cell phones, that's fine, but don't forego health insurance for your kids just to save a few bucks when you're wasting all that money on ATI and fake food.

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm not new here but I forgot my pass and user name so I signed up again. Its good to be back... When I have been stopping in I have been just reading.

I watched that Bates last evening and one thing I noticed is how subserviant Kelly is to Gil and how boastful Gil is. As for the son springing for groceries, Gil should be very ashamed. It showed his inadequacy as a husband to be a good provider for his family. He reminds me of a grifter. Whatever they get for free is ok with him all in the name of The Lord because "the Lord provides". Like someone else mentioned here I am also surprised that they don't hang clothes on on a clothes line, have a garden to provide some of their food and have chickens and smaller livestock to provide food for the family.

Gil should keep his pecker in his pants and get a second job to provide for his family instead of letting others take care of them. At least Jim Bob Duggar is able to live off his real estate investments and tlc salary for the show to provide for his family and I thought I heard Jim Bob say he had some medical and dental insurance on the family. Correct me if I am wrong. Gil Bates is a slacker living off his sons earnings.

[Hisey]

Gil just doesn't leach off of Lawson. Who do you think is paying for his kids medical care, during those trips to the ER?

A good friend of mine is an ER doc. He sees a lot of people taking advantage of the fact that ERs must serve everyone. It is other patients and the hospital who are paying for the Bates' medical care. The Bates just drive the cost up for everyone. My friend often tells such slackers that they should make an appt with the clinic doctor in the morning--he can't treat their kids red eye/chronic cough/virus in a place where people come with real emergencies.

Gil still has to pay for medications--I wonder how he does that? And dental visits--which dentist does he mooch off of?

[lilwriter85]

I'm not new here but I forgot my pass and user name so I signed up again. Its good to be back... When I have been stopping in I have been just reading.

I watched that Bates last evening and one thing I noticed is how subserviant Kelly is to Gil and how boastful Gil is. As for the son springing for groceries, Gil should be very ashamed. It showed his inadequacy as a husband to be a good provider for his family. He reminds me of a grifter. Whatever they get for free is ok with him all in the name of The Lord because "the Lord provides". Like someone else mentioned here I am also surprised that they don't hang clothes on on a clothes line, have a garden to provide some of their food and have chickens and smaller livestock to provide food for the family.

Gil should keep his pecker in his pants and get a second job to provide for his family instead of letting others take care of them. At least Jim Bob Duggar is able to live off his real estate investments and tlc salary for the show to provide for his family and I thought I heard Jim Bob say he had some medical and dental insurance on the family. Correct me if I am wrong. Gil Bates is a slacker living off his sons earnings.

It has been confirmed that Jim Bob does have insurance for his family. I agree Gil is worse and he is a slacker.

[Jessica]

Gil should keep his pecker in his pants and get a second job to provide for his family instead of letting others take care of them. At least Jim Bob Duggar is able to live off his real estate investments and tlc salary for the show to provide for his family and I thought I heard Jim Bob say he had some medical and dental insurance on the family. Correct me if I am wrong. Gil Bates is a slacker living off his sons earnings.

Gil has said, I think on an episode of 19 Kids & Counting, something like "We found out we could make the same amount of money working fewer hours by going into the tree business." Uh, then if that's the case, work a few overtime shifts here and there to provide for your family instead of depending on your teenage son! Ugh!

[Guest Anonymous]

I was just watching the episode of 18 Kids and Counting when the Duggars go and visit the Bates (and start the remodel) and found it ironic when Gil was joking with one of the little boys about using his bank account to buy the groceries.

Unfortunately for the kids, Gil was serious.

[Prek teach]

What annoys me is the whole "debt free" thing. I'd be debt free too if people donated goods and services to build me a house, gave my family a vehicle, and paid my medical costs. They're debt free because they receive charity, not because they've paid cash for everything they own. Now I have no problem with people accepting charity, just people who accept it then brag about how they have no debt.

[emesbe]

I would be interested to know if the Bates have any kind of retirement plan? Does Gil have a 401K?

Or are their kids going to be stuck with providing for them all their lives??

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I would be interested to know if the Bates have any kind of retirement plan? Does Gil have a 401K?

Or are their kids going to be stuck with providing for them all their lives??

I wonder this about most of the fundies. A self-employed person is not going to have a 401K, so I hope they are thinking about the future and have some savings of some sort. I'm betting someone who cannot even afford groceries does not have substantial savings or investments. This is one area where I'll give someone like Jim Bob the benefit of the doubt. For all of his faults, he does seem to be good with money, even before the TLC gravy train came to town. It may have taken them longer to get where they are, for sure, but I do think he would work 3 jobs to keep his family fed. And that is the closest thing to a compliment I will ever give Jim Bob.

[JenniferJuniper]

I'm sure JB has plenty of investments, mainly in commercial real estate, but the Bates appear to live hand to mouth, with most of what they have in their hand having been handed to them.

What I took away mostly from last night's puff piece was the strong sense that the Bates are absolutely desperate to surpass the Dugggars numbers, hence all of the kids praying for twin boys so they'll beat the Duggars by one and (I think) end up with 10 boys and 10 girls. You get the sense they think this will somehow catapult them into fame and fortune like the Duggars. It's all very pathetic, and the situation is made even more tragic by the fact that they appear not to be able to afford the kids they already have.

I think these people are as sick as they are ignorant.