Lorken don't sin like all you sinning sinners

[jerkit]

Not trying to aggravate anyone, I'm sure this information is in a thread somewhere, but what brand of Christian are Lori and Ken? They fascinate me in a bug - in - a- jar way and I am trying to understand the way they think and why they think they are bible based in their thinking. Is it their church or their own interpretations?

I was raised LCMS and bonus AOG in my teen years (at the same time-kind of mind boggling). I thought I had a pretty good handle on conservative Christianity, but Lori and Ken leave me confused and wondering if they have ever truly studied the bible.

IMO, these are the kind of people who turn people away from Christianity. The hypocrisy literally smells to high heaven.

Their church is a non-denominational evangelical church with Calvary history.

[brillig]

I replied, but I guess I didn't do something right. Thank you for your replies.

It is easy to take a verse or two or three from the bible and subvert the meaning into something malleable to your own beliefs.

I have not read all through the threads, but I can't help feeling sorry for Lori on some level. She is not allowed an opinion, only subservience, not allowed to refuse sex despite major health issues ( brain tumors), and submits even on her own "woman mentoring" blog to her nonsensical, controlling husband.

Firiel says Ken's attitude is "I can do whatever I want and it's not sin. Cuz sanctification. " That and penis. Because I guarantee that he'd have an entirely different view if women gave the same view and arguments he does.

Ken, we all know you have a penis. Congratulations (? ). Let your woman minister to women without your oversight or interference. Maybe she would be healthier in mimd, spirit and body if she was allowed the freedom to think and feel as a woman.

[DGayle]

It is in the super secret comment section that we are not supposed to quote. :lol:

Saint(not sinner) Ken's whole quote is this:

I would categorize all sins that are unfaithful to a spouses as “unfaithful.†It is the breaking of a covenant to be faithful, but let’s call it what it is, not assign something worse to it.

I actually had a friend call me one day at tell me that his wife had been unfaithful. She had gone to the gym, taken on personal trainer and was caught actually going to the trainers home and she confessed to kissing and some petting, but did not have sex. The husband was totally distraught, as you can imagine, and what do you think I said to him?

Betrayal! It is the same as adultery! Now you have every right to divorce her!

No I did not say those things because they would be untrue, and worse yet would throw gasoline on an already open fire and wound. She kissed another man, she let another man feel her. Got it, but she still is your wife, so what are you going to do to win your disobedient wife back to you? Sure, hold her accountable, but just recognize that the foul mood you stay in, the negativity you throw at her, the moping and carrying on that you are now doing is just as destructive to the marriage now, as the acts of unfaithfulness were before. You are punishing your wife with your behavior.

The results took a few phone calls and months, now a couple years to see, but they are stronger than ever. Her sin was not a sin leading to divorce, but it could have been only if the husband had not reesponded with charity and grace, much like Christ does with us each and every time we "betray†him at in the workplace, or in our homes.

So call it what it is, be real about it, but let’s stop throwing gas on the fire and instead teach believers everywhere to respond to their spouses sin like He does when He tells each one of us, “Go and sin no more.†How many times has he told you that lately? Is he running out of 70 x 7, or is His grace a bottomless reserve of love and forgiveness, no matter what His child might do?

If your right arm started to really hurt badly would you want it to whack your left arm and make it hurt too? If we are in one flesh marriages, our spouses into porn are hurting, and that hurt goes to us, but we don’t go around hurting our one flesh any more than is necessary to procure a cure.

I think that friend exists only in Ken's head but he makes it clear that if Lori caught him with kissing a naked woman she would have no right to accuse him of having an affair and if she dared to act upset for any amount of time she would be sinning just as much as he did. Seriously, no one tries to downplay having affairs this much if they aren't trying to justify behaving like this. No wonder Lori didn't want to say that she loved him.

There's a super-secret comment section somewhere? :oops:

I don't think for one second Ken would accept Lori cheating, but I really do think it's a real possibility that Ken's cheated on Lori. He's trying too hard to defend a cheating spouse and how the cuckholded one is supposed to not "punish" the cheater by being mad.

[formergothardite]

Don't you know?! All the comments are super secret according to Saint Ken and should never be quoted. EVER! Especially not if it makes them look bad. :lol:

With all of Ken's traveling and then writing stuff like this, I do suspect he has had an affair(minus actual penis in vagina sex) and this is how he justifies it. These two should have never gotten married and they sure as hell should not be giving out marriage advice.

[brillig]

Is Calvary the same as Calvinist? I definitely need to read up on less main stream Christian religions.

Ken reminds me so much of my abusive mail order (pre internet) ordained minister father that loved to quote scripture as he beat my mother. I really, really hate (not a word I use lightly) scriptural abuse.

My father had affairs, quoted scripture and made it my mom's fault. (?) Minister (haha), two churches, but not enough to make him a decent human being.

Be a Christian, or don't. But don't use Christianity to shield your perversity and mental issues.

Your wife, while female, deserves respect and has an inherent right as God’s child to express herself. As herself. Without your influence.

[StellaMarie]

Do you think it's possible that Lori had the "non-affair"? And Ken doesn't want to be a cuckold, so he comes up with with some convoluted theory to explain away her cheating.

It just seems like, with these two wackadoos, anything is possible! But I do tend to agree with others that it's not unlikely that something happened with one or both of them that would lead him to come up with this new theory of infidelity.

[polecat]

Do you think it's possible that Lori had the "non-affair"? And Ken doesn't want to be a cuckold, so he comes up with with some convoluted theory to explain away her cheating.

It just seems like, with these two wackadoos, anything is possible! But I do tend to agree with others that it's not unlikely that something happened with one or both of them that would lead him to come up with this new theory of infidelity.

Not that that would make adultery ok or anything, but I could see how Lori or someone else who was stuck with an overbearing, domineering, know-it-all selfish ass of a lover might be tempted to cheat.

But I suspect that if anyone was getting some on the side, it was Ken. He is just so skeezy with women ...

[StellaMarie]

Ha ha, fair enough. I mean, I think she's an awful person, but it's probably not all that likely that she would want to be physically intimate (whatever that may mean) with someone else.

Now that I think about it, it's interesting that Ken reversed the gender roles in his made-up story. I mean, I thought men were the ones with needs? Women just need to lie there for 10 minutes or so, if I recall correctly.

[brillig]

I think anything is possible, but because Lori says so much about being a keeper of the home, you can't leave the home, etc. Scumbag Ken is the one with fidelity issues. Courtney. And a million subtle (or not) slights to his wife.

Ken *obviously* does not respect Lori as a human being. He thinks that he doesn't have to , because bible. I may be projecting, but I think Lori would be more fulfilled as a human being (slavery is over, no matter what a couple thousand year old book says, Lori) if she donated time through her church. Still Christian, but allowing her to "mix" with people not exactly like her. My 80+ yo in laws drive people to chemo and dialysis, and volunteer to teach English and care for immigrant kids. Both my in - laws (80 plus) are fighting cancer. They are Christian. They live it.

[brillig]

That said, someone completely controlled can't see beyond the front door. If Ken is only a psychological abuser, (which I doubt, based on his recommendation of physical restraint), an uneducated woman, knowing that at this time in her life everything that can go screwball health wise will, and whatever she trained for or was educated in 20 years is no longer relevant. Lori doesn't have a lot of options.

I can't speak for Lori, but I know plenty of women who feel like they have no other viable choice BUT abuse. A lot of them feel they deserve it. Or it isn't enough to make a "thing" over.

I really wish...argh...so much. That women got an education that would support them and any children they have, and that would be the standard of parents of girl children. I wish our older generation of women didn't denigrate themselves, and were free and able to discuss what it meant to be female when they were growing up and the changes for women they have seen through the decades. It (IMO) should never be supressed, and should be talked about as matter as fact as other things in history. My .02.

[2xx1xy1JD]

That said, someone completely controlled can't see beyond the front door. If Ken is only a psychological abuser, (which I doubt, based on his recommendation of physical restraint), an uneducated woman, knowing that at this time in her life everything that can go screwball health wise will, and whatever she trained for or was educated in 20 years is no longer relevant. Lori doesn't have a lot of options.

I can't speak for Lori, but I know plenty of women who feel like they have no other viable choice BUT abuse. A lot of them feel they deserve it. Or it isn't enough to make a "thing" over.

I really wish...argh...so much. That women got an education that would support them and any children they have, and that would be the standard of parents of girl children. I wish our older generation of women didn't denigrate themselves, and were free and able to discuss what it meant to be female when they were growing up and the changes for women they have seen through the decades. It (IMO) should never be supressed, and should be talked about as matter as fact as other things in history. My .02.

I think many of us agree that Lori doesn't see herself as having a lot of options.

Her health isn't good. She doesn't have a career. I have no idea what health insurance or practical support she'd have if she was suddenly on her own. Even if it were technically possible for her to leave, I'm not sure that she'd be emotionally or mentally capable of doing it. She'd lose face to her children and her church community. She is not someone who can deal with being wrong or humble (unless she's criticizing herself). According to Ken, she's always been a somewhat pampered doctor's daughter who makes expensive demands and doesn't really deal with financial realities. I can't see her being a barista in Starbucks, and I don't think SHE can see herself doing that. In my practice, I often saw that middle-aged, middle-class women who hadn't worked outside the home were the most trapped and the last to leave horrible relationships. In terms of pure dollars and cents, a teen mom might have less, but they didn't have the same expectations and hangups, and leaving generally didn't cost them very much.

[Firiel]

That said, someone completely controlled can't see beyond the front door. If Ken is only a psychological abuser, (which I doubt, based on his recommendation of physical restraint), an uneducated woman, knowing that at this time in her life everything that can go screwball health wise will, and whatever she trained for or was educated in 20 years is no longer relevant. Lori doesn't have a lot of options.

I can't speak for Lori, but I know plenty of women who feel like they have no other viable choice BUT abuse. A lot of them feel they deserve it. Or it isn't enough to make a "thing" over.

I really wish...argh...so much. That women got an education that would support them and any children they have, and that would be the standard of parents of girl children. I wish our older generation of women didn't denigrate themselves, and were free and able to discuss what it meant to be female when they were growing up and the changes for women they have seen through the decades. It (IMO) should never be supressed, and should be talked about as matter as fact as other things in history. My .02.

Lori did get an education and was working. Then she sabotaged their birth control because she wanted to stay home and stop working.

I sometimes get tempted to feel sorry for Lori or Ken (usually depending on who has been posting more!), and then I remember they are both equally terrible. I'm just glad they have stayed married because they deserve each other, and as long as they stay together, no other significant others are dragged into their miserable worldview.

[formergothardite]

I don't see Lori as cheating. I think she knows that Ken would kick her out and make sure everyone in the world knows what she did. Her pride and love of not working would keep her from doing that. Ken, though, he knows that Lori will never leave him no matter what, and he clearly does not respect or love her, so there is no incentive to remain faithful. He openly flirted with Courtney on Lori's blog and he tried to get my address here so can you imagine what he is doing in private? I think he has convinced himself that as long as he doesn't have sex he won't have violated the Bible, so he doesn't have to feel guilty.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I don't see Lori as cheating. I think she knows that Ken would kick her out and make sure everyone in the world knows what she did. Her pride and love of not working would keep her from doing that. Ken, though, he knows that Lori will never leave him no matter what, and he clearly does not respect or love her, so there is no incentive to remain faithful. He openly flirted with Courtney on Lori's blog and he tried to get my address here so can you imagine what he is doing in private? I think he has convinced himself that as long as he doesn't have sex he won't have violated the Bible, so he doesn't have to feel guilty.

Lori's been pretty open about her lack of desire, and she and Ken constantly repeat that it's the man who has the testosterone and therefore the "sexual needs".

Are there so many orthodontists in Europe that it was really necessary to do tons of business trips there, and was it really impossible to build a practice just in the US?

[Firiel]

Imagine how MAD Ken is right now that we are speculating and some of us are saying we suspect he's cheated?

SLANDER LIBEL MISCHARACTERIZATION

Actually, it's probably closer to libel than many of the things that have gotten that label from Klorien. I mean, it's still not libel at all, but it's closer because it's not just a collection of his direct quotes.

[polecat]

Lori's been pretty open about her lack of desire, and she and Ken constantly repeat that it's the man who has the testosterone and therefore the "sexual needs".

Are there so many orthodontists in Europe that it was really necessary to do tons of business trips there, and was it really impossible to build a practice just in the US?

I suspect I wouldn't have any desire if I were married to Ken, either.

And I have a naturally high drive.

[Curious]

Imagine how MAD Ken is right now that we are speculating and some of us are saying we suspect he's cheated?

SLANDER LIBEL MISCHARACTERIZATION

Actually, it's probably closer to libel than many of the things that have gotten that label from Klorien. I mean, it's still not libel at all, but it's closer because it's not just a collection of his direct quotes.

Speaking of defamation, I found out something interesting recently, there are a few things that fall under the category of "libel per se" (or I suppose defamation per se really). The only one I can recall off the top of my head is claiming that someone is impotent.

[salex]

Lori's been pretty open about her lack of desire, and she and Ken constantly repeat that it's the man who has the testosterone and therefore the "sexual needs".

Are there so many orthodontists in Europe that it was really necessary to do tons of business trips there, and was it really impossible to build a practice just in the US?

Personally, I hope he's never had an affair because I hope his only outlet for sex has been his hand and his uncaring wife who is not attracted to him and says so, and who drags up shit form decades a go to bitch about online today. Their punishment for their hateful stance on things can be their own life, which, unlike normal people instead of spending whole weekends in bed screwing like bunnies in their youth, was spent with Ken off playing basketball with the guys and bitching about Lori while Lori stayed home stewing in her own juice about whatever thing she didn't like about Ken that day.

I hope that Ken has never had a lover who loved him more or better than Lori says she has-- which is to say, not much, not often and not because she found him attractive.

I hope neither of them ever enjoyed Sunday mornings in bed, reading the paper over muffins and coffee and avoiding the wet spot. I hope neither of them ever fed a lover sorbet while naked standing in front of the fridge freezer trying to cool off.

I hope Ken does not have a second family or lover in France. I hope he must practice what he preaches and has no refuge beyond the cold but resigned and "obedient" arms of his born again wife and her wily ways to avoid being on her own.

I have a friend who, when people pissed her off, used to say I hope they never have good sex again. I hope, for Lori and Ken, they are doomed to have the few minutes and lube sex until Lori deems them too old.... and that it is the best either of them have ever had.

[formergothardite]

Imagine how MAD Ken is right now that we are speculating and some of us are saying we suspect he's cheated?

SLANDER LIBEL MISCHARACTERIZATION

Actually, it's probably closer to libel than many of the things that have gotten that label from Klorien. I mean, it's still not libel at all, but it's closer because it's not just a collection of his direct quotes.

If he doesn't want people to speculate about if he has had an affair he really shouldn't write things that try to justify cheating on one's spouse as not really cheating.

[browncoatslytherin]

If he doesn't want people to speculate about if he has had an affair he really shouldn't write things that try to justify cheating on one's spouse as not really cheating.

precisely! it's not like we're totally pulling it out of left field, here. he's given us ample material himself.

[Firiel]

precisely! it's not like we're totally pulling it out of left field, here. he's given us ample material himself.

Oh, I agree. Actually, thinking about how mad Ken is might be making me a little :lol: :nenner:

And I only feel a little bit bad about that glee. ;)

[browncoatslytherin]

Oh, I agree. Actually, thinking about how mad Ken is might be making me a little :lol: :nenner:

And I only feel a little bit bad about that glee. ;)

i don't feel bad about it at all :P

[formergothardite]

I don't have even the tiniest sliver of guilt when I imagine Ken trying to furiously figure out how to get people to stop quoting his words. :lol:

Ken, since we all know you read here these are the reasons I suspect you might have had an affair(I would like to note that I am not saying you had an affair, just that these things are major red flags to me):

~You spent most of your married life traveling and when you were home you avoided being at home until the wife and kids were in bed. You chose basketball over time with your wife. That says a lot right there.

~You have demonstrated a total lack of respect and love for Lori. Actions speak louder than words and your actions towards your wife drown out all your claims that you are a loving wonderful husband.

~You have flirted with at least one woman on Lori's blog and asked me for my address. I would not be surprised to find out that you also email women who comment on Lori's blog(instead of Lori being the one who does that) initiating conversations under the guise of trying to answer a question.

~You claim that Jesus wasn't being serious when he said that any man who looks at a woman with lust in his heart is guilty of adultery so porn is maybe not okay, but certainly not as bad as a wife who wants her husband to stop watching porn and spend time with her. :roll:

~You claim that a person can get naked with someone who is not their spouse, feel them up, kiss them, and share a deep emotional attachment but none of that is adultery.

So, again, I'm not saying you had an affair, just that these things give the appearance of a man who is trying to justify cheating on his wife and watching lots of porn.

[polecat]

I don't have even the tiniest sliver of guilt when I imagine Ken trying to furiously figure out how to get people to stop quoting his words. :lol:

Ken, since we all know you read here these are the reasons I suspect you might have had an affair(I would like to note that I am not saying you had an affair, just that these things are major red flags to me):

~You spent most of your married life traveling and when you were home you avoided being at home until the wife and kids were in bed. You chose basketball over time with your wife. That says a lot right there.

~You have demonstrated a total lack of respect and love for Lori. Actions speak louder than words and your actions towards your wife drown out all your claims that you are a loving wonderful husband.

~You have flirted with at least one woman on Lori's blog and asked me for my address. I would not be surprised to find out that you also email women who comment on Lori's blog(instead of Lori being the one who does that) initiating conversations under the guise of trying to answer a question.

~You claim that Jesus wasn't being serious when he said that any man who looks at a woman with lust in his heart is guilty of adultery so porn is maybe not okay, but certainly not as bad as a wife who wants her husband to stop watching porn and spend time with her. :roll:

~You claim that a person can get naked with someone who is not their spouse, feel them up, kiss them, and share a deep emotional attachment but none of that is adultery.

So, again, I'm not saying you had an affair, just that these things give the appearance of a man who is trying to justify cheating on his wife and watching lots of porn.

And let's face it: Pretty sure that the Bible tells Christians to flee appearances of evil. Unless Ken's going to tell us that the Bible didn't really mean to use the word "flee" but should instead have said something like, "Dangle your feet in the evil pond" or "flirt with evil just don't put your penis in it."

[formergothardite]

1 Thessalonians 5:22 "abstain from all appearance of evil"

Ken skipped that verse because it wasn't bashing women.