Real Life Fundie Encountersâ„¢ Part 2

[thenewclassic]

The last name "Bernstein" sounds suspiciously Jewish to be discovering the true meaning of Easter. Plus I remember reading the Bernstein bears when I was little and I didn't notice anything Jesusy in them.

Yeah, it seemed like some sort of weird Catholic spin-off.

[nausicaa]

The last name "Bernstein" sounds suspiciously Jewish to be discovering the true meaning of Easter. Plus I remember reading the Bernstein bears when I was little and I didn't notice anything Jesusy in them.

Jan and Stan Berenstain's son is pretty religious and had a few later books added to the series focused on Christian themes, like "Berenstain Bears Say their Prayers." They weren't part of the canon we grew up with (And did "Berenstain Bears and the Messy Room" ever speak to my little OCD heart.)

I did think it was odd when I got older that the Berenstain Bears weren't Jewish.

ETA: Holy Crap, there is a BB Bible. Totally want this now.

http://www.christianbook.com/the-nirv-b ... Avtw8P8HAQ

Edited to also add: I totally know that book titles go in italics, not quotation marks, but my layout won't let me highlight anything for some reason.

[PennySycamore]

Stan Berenstain was Jewish and Jan was Episcopalian. Their kids are Mike and Leo. Mike is the one who writes the books and has turned them into Christian themed books.

Frankly, I could never stand to read even the early Berenstain Bears books to my kids -too preachy, saccharine and formulaic. The last two qualities I stole straight from wikipedia and the first is my contribution. The early books weren't religious preachy, but merely moralistic. I couldn't stand Amelia Bedelia either.

[FiddleDD]

Jan and Stan Berenstain's son is pretty religious and had a few later books added to the series focused on Christian themes, like "Berenstain Bears Say their Prayers." They weren't part of the canon we grew up with (And did "Berenstain Bears and the Messy Room" ever speak to my little OCD heart.)

I did think it was odd when I got older that the Berenstain Bears weren't Jewish.

ETA: Holy Crap, there is a BB Bible. Totally want this now.

http://www.christianbook.com/the-nirv-b ... Avtw8P8HAQ

I forgot about that book! I loved that one too, although my little OCD self never managed to get my room clean, I was too busy alphabetizing my books. :lol:

[HereticHick]

Arggh! I've got fundy cooties. The American Association of Christian Schools (according to their website, they are an Association of "Bible-Believing" Schools--there's a fundy buzzword for you) is having their Washington, DC conference today. I rode the metro with about 50 of them, with nametags, heading to Capitol Hill to lobby Congress, and I had to sit next to the President of Bob Jones University (www.bju.edu/about/president/).

Yes, I was wearing tight pants & showing skin below my collarbone. Suck it, Steve.

I've never seen so many 60ish white men in nice dark suits in one place in my life. All of them lily white, and I only saw one woman (professionally dressed with nice blazer & hair, and a loose calf length skirt) and I suspect she was someone's helpmeet.

It was like a Handmaid's Tale Board Meeting.

[PennySycamore]

HereticHick,

Your post reminded me of an incident several years ago. The Target store near my house is sometimes frequented by students from Bob Jones University. (I don't see BJU kids there as often as I used to.) Anyway, there was the one guy student at the checkout just gushing about how good-looking that he thought that Steven Jones was. I thought "You know, straight men just don't talk like that." It was so weird. I hope that student came to terms with his sexuality.

[HereticHick]

I did think to myself--the Duggar men would look and sound like hicks compared to this Christian College crowd. They were a well dressed, tailored suits, shined shoes, nice haircuts bunch.

[HereticHick]

Oh the irony. Its day two of the Christian Schools conference & this morning all the bible-thumping white men were heading into the Library of Congress for a tour. And the Library's big Civil Rights Anniversary Exhibit just opened.

I hope that the Bob Jones University* guys go through the exhibit.

*Bob Jones University didn't allow African American students until 1971, and prohibited all interracial dating (or courting :D ) until 2000. The University has since apologized for its racist past.

[It'sFunToRun]

Oh the irony. Its day two of the Christian Schools conference & this morning all the bible-thumping white men were heading into the Library of Congress for a tour. And the Library's big Civil Rights Anniversary Exhibit just opened.

I hope that the Bob Jones University* guys go through the exhibit.

*Bob Jones University didn't allow African American students until 1971, and prohibited all interracial dating (or courting :D ) until 2000. The University has since apologized for its racist past.

Until 2000?!!!! I was alive then! Was that actually enforced? Would a half-Hispanic, half-white kid have to date another half-Hispanic, half-white kid, or could they pick either? Could a half-Hispanic, half-white kid date a half-Hispanic, half-black kid, or would that be forbidden because it would be introducing two new races? What if someone was adopted didn't know what their race was and could pass for a bunch of different things?

[keen23]

Until 2000?!!!! I was alive then! Was that actually enforced? Would a half-Hispanic, half-white kid have to date another half-Hispanic, half-white kid, or could they pick either? Could a half-Hispanic, half-white kid date a half-Hispanic, half-black kid, or would that be forbidden because it would be introducing two new races? What if someone was adopted didn't know what their race was and could pass for a bunch of different things?

Until 1978, LDS/Mormon black men were not allowed to be ordained to priesthood. All other ethnicities were allowed to hold a priesthood at age 18.

[nausicaa]

Until 2000?!!!! I was alive then! Was that actually enforced? Would a half-Hispanic, half-white kid have to date another half-Hispanic, half-white kid, or could they pick either? Could a half-Hispanic, half-white kid date a half-Hispanic, half-black kid, or would that be forbidden because it would be introducing two new races? What if someone was adopted didn't know what their race was and could pass for a bunch of different things?

Those are good questions about the interracial ban, and something that I always wonder about when things like this are put into place. Race is a fairly fluid concept, even more so in many parts of the world. I believe that the school covered its ass by saying that it couldn't condone interracial dating because the school wouldn't know what the parents' views on the subject were and it didn't want to usurp the parents' authority. And just my hunch, but I doubt there were many interracial students at the school to worry about. I believe the largest minority group there was/is East Asian, and it's likely fairly small.

In other wonderful BJU tidbits, when the Pope once visited the area, Bob Jones said that he would rather "meet with the devil himself." Great brand marketing there Jones.

Aside: Apparently the school defended its racial policy by pointing out that there were Jewish groups with the same interracial bans. Has anyone heard of a Jewish organization/sect that was against interracial dating on religious principle? Or was the school confusing interreligious with interracial?

[neuroticcat]

The last name "Bernstein" sounds suspiciously Jewish to be discovering the true meaning of Easter. Plus I remember reading the Bernstein bears when I was little and I didn't notice anything Jesusy in them.

Agree - it's the newer ones written by Jan and her son Mike - and now maybe just Mike? - that are preachy and Christianese. I always direct my kids attention away from those at the library, because it's not even Christianity they're preaching - it's like the worst of the Christian subculture cliches. They all are horrible but my least favorite might be when Mama Bear needs a day off. And the whole book is written like an Ode to Stay-at-home-moms and how much they do. And then Mama Bear micromanages what everyone eats at dinner out - very cringeworthy.

But as a whole, most of the BB books bother me with their stereotypes. Mama Bear is always lecturing the family and Papa Bear is bumbling about doing stupid things. The very early books are good but the rest - meh.

[It'sFunToRun]

Those are good questions about the interracial ban, and something that I always wonder about when things like this are put into place. Race is a fairly fluid concept, even more so in many parts of the world. I believe that the school covered its *** by saying that it couldn't condone interracial dating because the school wouldn't know what the parents' views on the subject were and it didn't want to usurp the parents' authority. And just my hunch, but I doubt there were many interracial students at the school to worry about. I believe the largest minority group there was/is East Asian, and it's likely fairly small.

In other wonderful BJU tidbits, when the Pope once visited the area, Bob Jones said that he would rather "meet with the devil himself." Great brand marketing there Jones.

Aside: Apparently the school defended its racial policy by pointing out that there were Jewish groups with the same interracial bans. Has anyone heard of a Jewish organization/sect that was against interracial dating on religious principle? Or was the school confusing interreligious with interracial?

There is not, and to the best of my knowledge there never has been, a Jewish prohibition against two Jews of different races marrying. It has always been forbidden in Orthodox Judaism for a Jew and a non-Jew to marry, and if it happens, it does not count as a "marriage".

Jews are commanded to "love the ger (convert)", and refusing to marry with them does not seem very loving. Only the Cohanim are not allowed to marry converts, but that is less than 2% of the Jewish population. There is a saying (don't remember the source, definitely not biblical) that when the Ashkenazis (Jews from most parts of Europe, "white" Jews) and the Sepharadis (Jews who descended from the Jews who were kicked out of Spain, "brown" Jews) start marrying one another, it's a sign that the Messiah is coming :D

In Israel it is not allowed for a Jew to marry a non-Jew, but of course it is legal for a "white" Ashkenazi Jew to marry an Ethiopian Jew, and that has happened quite a few times!

[HarryPotterFan]

ItsFunToRun - So much for my mom's hope that my brother's fiance will convert. We're Cohanim. I'm keeping my mouth shit on that one. They plan on raising any children as Jewish, but technically it won't count. I guess they'll be reform since reform synagogues are more lax with the rules.

HereticHick - Please please direct them toward any of the Smithsonian museums. It would be endlessly amusing. I wonder if the Smuggars have ever been to any of them. The Museum of Natural History teaches ebil evolution, and any art museum would be too defrauding.

[RandomTrivia]

Stan Berenstain was Jewish and Jan was Episcopalian. Their kids are Mike and Leo. Mike is the one who writes the books and has turned them into Christian themed books.

Frankly, I could never stand to read even the early Berenstain Bears books to my kids -too preachy, saccharine and formulaic. The last two qualities I stole straight from wikipedia and the first is my contribution. The early books weren't religious preachy, but merely moralistic. I couldn't stand Amelia Bedelia either.

The BB books are common around here, mostly the square ones, although there are some chapter books for slightly older kids. They all have a moral of some kind - fitting in, bullying, whatever - and I'm pretty sure there's one where a bear-kid brings a gun to school. They did get more religious later on, and I have seen a couple that were Chik-fil-a freebies. I tried to avoid them at read-aloud time with my son just because they're so darned long. Or maybe they just feel that way. I never could figure out how Mama and Papa Bear knew to name Brother "Brother" if he was the oldest and wasn't an actual brother yet. Or why Mama and Papa didn't have "real" names like everyone else in the books. Yes, I may have been overthinking this a lot.

The kid liked Amelia Bedelia occasionally, after he was old enough to get the puns and wordplay. And I am personally a sucker for the Serendipity books (Stephen Cosgrove and Robin James), just because I like the illustrations.

[PennySycamore]

I know how BJU handled inter-racial romance because I knew a BJU graduate who married another grad who was half-Vietnamese and half-Caucasian. (His mom was a war bride.) Considering that there were few, if any, girls who were half-white and half-Vietnamese, he was able to choose whether to be white or East Asian for dating purposes. Since their were far fewer Asian women students to date, he chose to be white. Her parents, btw, were not at all happy that their daughter chose to date and then marry a guy who wasn't lily white. They would have nothing to do with the wedding and the two BJ grads ended up getting married at my husband's office. I think my husband may have given the bride away, but I'm not sure. Unfortunately, the marriage didn't last. The bride's parents' attitude couldn't have helped any.

To put it succinctly, inter-racial students had to choose what race they'd be.

[It'sFunToRun]

I know how BJU handled inter-racial romance because I knew a BJU graduate who married another grad who was half-Vietnamese and half-Caucasian. (His mom was a war bride.) Considering that there were few, if any, girls who were half-white and half-Vietnamese, he was able to choose whether to be white or East Asian for dating purposes. Since their were far fewer Asian women students to date, he chose to be white. Her parents, btw, were not at all happy that their daughter chose to date and then marry a guy who wasn't lily white. They would have nothing to do with the wedding and the two BJ grads ended up getting married at my husband's office. I think my husband may have given the bride away, but I'm not sure. Unfortunately, the marriage didn't last. The bride's parents' attitude couldn't have helped any.

To put it succinctly, inter-racial students had to choose what race they'd be.

That's interesting. I don't agree with inter racial bans, but if you have to have one, then I think they handled it in the most fair way possible. What I mean is that if they let biracial people date from both sides, that makes their dating pool unfairly large, whereas if they make biracial people date only people who are biracial in the same combination that they are, that makes their dating pool unfairly small. From that viewpoint BJU's policy is as fair as possible.

[church_of_dog]

That's interesting. I don't agree with inter racial bans, but if you have to have one, then I think they handled it in the most fair way possible. What I mean is that if they let biracial people date from both sides, that makes their dating pool unfairly large, whereas if they make biracial people date only people who are biracial in the same combination that they are, that makes their dating pool unfairly small. From that viewpoint BJU's policy is as fair as possible.

I understand how it might seem fair, but it doesn't actually make sense to me.

After all, the "purpose" (from their perspective) of banning interracial dating is what? I don't think the purpose is to set everyone up with an equal (or limited) pool of potential dates. I presume the purpose of their ban is to restrict what they see as unacceptable behavior, and apparently a person of one race/color dating a person of another race/color isn't ok to them.

But if a mixed-race person would be permitted to date someone of *either* of their races as long as they picked which one first, then they should be permitted to date from either of those groups combined. What's the purpose of making them choose? What part of their racial concern is reflected by "you have too many people to choose from"?

And what if a multi-racial person wanted to date another multi-racial person?

I know that any race-related control by the school would seem ridiculous to me, but this literally does not make sense, does not follow any consistent logic.

edited to add emphasis

[Swamptribe]

Just received a call from a local number. Didn't recognize it but picked up the phone anyway. Caller said hello, then silence. I asked who it was. They started into a spiel about how their name was Ben, and even though I didn't know him he just wanted to call and brighten up my day with an inspirational bible quote. Rolled my eyes and asked that he remove our number from his calling list, then hung up.

Really, I have to put up with robocalls, political calls, now random inspirational bible quotes? I'm sorry, but I have a life and no time for this stupid crap.

It's tempting to post his number somewhere so he starts getting annoying calls all day..(no, would not do that, it's just an evil thought)

[Geechee Girl]

Just received a call from a local number. Didn't recognize it but picked up the phone anyway. Caller said hello, then silence. I asked who it was. They started into a spiel about how their name was Ben, and even though I didn't know him he just wanted to call and brighten up my day with an inspirational bible quote. Rolled my eyes and asked that he remove our number from his calling list, then hung up.

Really, I have to put up with robocalls, political calls, now random inspirational bible quotes? I'm sorry, but I have a life and no time for this stupid crap.

It's tempting to post his number somewhere so he starts getting annoying calls all day..(no, would not do that, it's just an evil thought)

Are you sure it wasn't our Bin? :lol:

[HereticHick]

Bravo Geechee Girl. Ben is getting bored out in the storage shed

[SunnyAndrsn]

Just found out we have real live fundie neighbors. Skirt wearing, homeschooling, birth control is a sin fundies.

They are up to 6 children, the oldest is 11 and a girl. I'd noticed the skirts, but honestly didn't think anything of it. Another neighbor who we're friends with says the kids spend a lot of time with her kids, so at least they aren't isolating the children--yet. The neighbor who is a friend has her three kids in public school.

I was chatting with her in her yard today, and the dad started yelling at the 11 year old for not watching the rest of the kids. WTF? Dad's home yet it's the daughter's job to watch her 5 younger siblings. The baby is about 6 months old and the mom is already trying to get pregnant again.

[Ivycoveredtower]

Just found out we have real live fundie neighbors. Skirt wearing, homeschooling, birth control is a sin fundies.

They are up to 6 children, the oldest is 11 and a girl. I'd noticed the skirts, but honestly didn't think anything of it. Another neighbor who we're friends with says the kids spend a lot of time with her kids, so at least they aren't isolating the children--yet. The neighbor who is a friend has her three kids in public school.

I was chatting with her in her yard today, and the dad started yelling at the 11 year old for not watching the rest of the kids. WTF? Dad's home yet it's the daughter's job to watch her 5 younger siblings. The baby is about 6 months old and the mom is already trying to get pregnant again.

You know I always think about that What happens in Fundie homes that only have boys or all the girls are younger. who raises the younger ones then well the mom is trying to add more. I hate to think what would have happened to the Duggar kids if it had all been boys before Johannah was born.

[nelliebelle1197]

I saw a faux Jew Jesus lover and wife at a medical center the other day. I was actually surprised, though I shouldn't have been since Kristina is not far from me and the Mortons are only a couple hours away...

Anywho, dude had on a yarmulka and tzitzit peeking through his waistband and carried a Bible. Plain Torah Keeper wife was walking a few paces behind at all times in all her modest glory. No headcovering for her though, which is originally what keyed me to look at the book in the husband's hands. Dude was brandishing the Christian Bible like a challenge. There are lots of Reformed, Orthodox and Conservative Jewish communities in the area. In fact, a good friend of mine attends a Conservative (Masorti) synagogue just down the street. I would have loved to have seen an Orthodox/faux confrontation, but alas....

[becky4201]

I saw a pair of Mormon missionaries walking through the local Kroger parking lot. They wore the traditional uniform, black slacks, white dress shirt, black tie, and black watch. Yeah, it wasn't a very interesting encounter. I'll try to do better. ;)