Real Life Fundie Encountersâ„¢ Part 2

[louisa05]

We went to the imaging center at a Catholic hospital on Friday morning for my dad's CT scan.

In admissions offices, there is a pamphlet rack with some fliers about things like chaplaincy services for patients and families, donating to the hospital, etc...I didn't notice it but there was one that didn't belong. The admissions person stepped out to go get my dad's printed materials and when she did, dad said to me "what is that pamphlet there that says 'is everything you know wrong?'?"

I grabbed it and it was not a pamphlet. It was a laminated single page tract the size of a regular pamphlet flier. The contents were all about how Catholicism is a cult that will send you directly to hell. My parents wanted me to put it back and ignore it. Absolutely not. I handed it to the admissions person when she came back and said "someone put this in your pamphlet rack and I assume it doesn't belong there?". She looked at it and said, very frustrated, "again...". Apparently, it happens to them two or three times a year. Patients come in with them and slip them in when the worker goes to get stuff in the print room. Usually, there is more than one, though. And sometimes, they remove the pamphlets on the hospital's spiritual services, too.

[RachelB]

We went to the imaging center at a Catholic hospital on Friday morning for my dad's CT scan.

In admissions offices, there is a pamphlet rack with some fliers about things like chaplaincy services for patients and families, donating to the hospital, etc...I didn't notice it but there was one that didn't belong. The admissions person stepped out to go get my dad's printed materials and when she did, dad said to me "what is that pamphlet there that says 'is everything you know wrong?'?"

I grabbed it and it was not a pamphlet. It was a laminated single page tract the size of a regular pamphlet flier. The contents were all about how Catholicism is a cult that will send you directly to hell. My parents wanted me to put it back and ignore it. Absolutely not. I handed it to the admissions person when she came back and said "someone put this in your pamphlet rack and I assume it doesn't belong there?". She looked at it and said, very frustrated, "again...". Apparently, it happens to them two or three times a year. Patients come in with them and slip them in when the worker goes to get stuff in the print room. Usually, there is more than one, though. And sometimes, they remove the pamphlets on the hospital's spiritual services, too.

Argh. Thanks for doing what you did.

I have some problems with religiously affiliated hospitals, especially in communities where they are the only available care providers. (When doctrine and science are in disagreement about best medical practices, as they are in treating things like ectopic pregnancies, I would prefer to base my decision on science, thank you.)

But making off with pamphlets about services the hospital offers-- that's just obnoxious. Because clearly the truly important thing, when people are scared or grieving or in shock, is to make sure that they don't know that the chaplaincy program exists, or that there's a quiet room to pray in. Heaven forbid they accidentally fall into the evil clutches of Rome. *ptui*

[GeoBQn]

My family and I went to a small-town agricultural fair here in Connecticut yesterday. There was a tent for the Fellowship of Christian Farmers. My very Catholic BIL turned to my other very Catholic BIL and said, "Why don't you go in and take one for the team?" I got the impression that the men in the tent, and their visitors, were going on about religious matters far more than farming.

Around Earth Day, my town had a craft fair where all of the crafts were made from upcycled materials. I came to business that was a couple in their early-30's, who were selling bookshelves and other things made out of old barn doors and fences. I was looking at a bookshelf thinking how cute it was--until I saw the books they chose to display. Left Behind, Joel Salatin, an Ezzo book. Not that I was in the market for a bookshelf that day, but any desire I had to do business with these people immediately died.

[church_of_dog]

Around Earth Day, my town had a craft fair where all of the crafts were made from upcycled materials. I came to business that was a couple in their early-30's, who were selling bookshelves and other things made out of old barn doors and fences. I was looking at a bookshelf thinking how cute it was--until I saw the books they chose to display. Left Behind, Joel Salatin, an Ezzo book. Not that I was in the market for a bookshelf that day, but any desire I had to do business with these people immediately died.

Is Joel Salatin a fundie? He's one of the eco-gurus of his own style of permaculture. I bought all his books for my local library and have been looking forward to reading them. Please tell me he's not fundie! :crying-yellow:

[GeoBQn]

He went to Bob Jones University and was a speaker at Vision Forum's food conference.

[church_of_dog]

He went to Bob Jones University and was a speaker at Vision Forum's food conference.

Oh dear. :cry:

[utter solitude]

He went to Bob Jones University and was a speaker at Vision Forum's food conference.

whaaa? The hell do they talk about, new tater tot casseroles?

2:00 PM, Room A : Sam's Club vs Costco - Who has the better deals?

[RachelB]

Oh dear. :cry:

As much as it galls me that he's had anything to do with Vision Forum, I'm glad that he is working on sustainable agriculture. It seems like a much less potentially harmful way of living out fundamentalist beliefs than working in education policy, and it also seems like it might help improve the lives of some of the rank-and-file fundies who have way more kids than they can afford to feed. (I am not cool with kids suffering because of decisions their parents have made.)

[Sweetpea1]

whaaa? The hell do they talk about, new tater tot casseroles?

2:00 PM, Room A : Sam's Club vs Costco - Who has the better deals?

Organically grown tater tot hotdish

[Geechee Girl]

I saw a woman in niqab pushing a stroller following steps behind her headship in my local Costco yesterday afternoon. She must have been very uncomfortable in our high heat and humidity with a cloudless sky.

[GeoBQn]

Not exactly fundie, but there is a new evangelical ministry at the nearby university campus. This was the first week of class, and they had crowds of members literally swarming every stoplight and intersection downtown to try to rope college students into conversations.

I work for a Jewish campus organization, and our director is part of an organization of campus religious leaders. The leaders agree to the following rules:

1. No street proselytizing

2. No deceptive advertising

3. No interfering with a student's chosen religious path (ex: If the child of two Methodist ministers comes to campus and decides he wants to be a Buddhist, the Methodist organization can't try to talk him out of it.)

This new ministry would never join because of these rules. The other Christian leaders that are a part of this organization (Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, etc.) have expressed a lot of fear over what this new group and their tactics.

[Grimalkin]

I simply do not understand why that's such a no-no. I would like to bet that any one of those JW's could have had a transfusion at some point (likely pre-conversion but maybe not) and because of it, they are able to walk around and bug the rest of us.

On a lighter note, the JW's have started making the rounds in the neighborhood again. I have started to tell Mr. No that the next time he decides to answer the door (because he will and I won't) that I dare him to tell them that if they want to tell him about their faith, then they should be willing to hear about his, and hey, they are in luck, the coven meets this afternoon.

Better yet, if he answers the door, I can always yell it from downstairs. Maybe I should threaten that.

I have handed a pamphlet out called "How and Why to pray The Rosary", to JW's that came to my house. Why not?

[nobleandstrong]

So, I didn't think that I would be contributing to this column, and then I got a package in the mail from my parents, including the August 2014 issue of the "Prophetic Observer: Keeping Time on God's Prophetic Clock" by the Southwest Radio Church of the Air. The 2 articles included in the newsletter: "Organized Chaos: The Obama Model for Transforming America" by David Schnittger (apparently the one on staff with the Southwest Radio church and not the one on staff with the U.S. Congress) and "Organized Chaos on the Border: The Inhumanity of the Illegal Alien Invasion" by Carol Rushton. :pink-shock: My mother described this as "Enclosed are some interesting articles." Anyone ever heard of or read or received this publication?

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I saw a woman in a hijab (I googled) today at the drug store, she was pregnant with five kids and the girls also had their heads covered even though they weren't that old. But what was interesting was they were discussing how this was her last baby. She says no more after this one! So I guess they have no problem with birth control.

[canbritam]

I saw a woman in a hijab (I googled) today at the drug store, she was pregnant with five kids and the girls also had their heads covered even though they weren't that old. But what was interesting was they were discussing how this was her last baby. She says no more after this one! So I guess they have no problem with birth control.

Most of us that are mainstream have no issues with birth control. The only types of birth control we are told to avoid are those that are permanent, for either men or women (says this hijabi who had an IUD for quite a few years because I had two boys 12 months apart (2nd while on the Pill) and would otherwise have gone insane. :mrgreen: )

I keep waiting for the day that my friends and I are the fundies people see. We had a big barbeque at the beach park - me, my other white convert friend and a whole bunch of Arabs, all the women in headscarves, all the other women in abaya. However, fifty metres away from us was a big group of ... Mennonites? We have a large Old Order Mennonites (horse and buggy ones) community around us but it seems every time we go for a beach barbeque we also see this group. Car driving, men in long pants and button down dress shirts, all the women and girls in three quarter length sleeved dresses and white kapps. They're in colourful dresses (though not bright) not the black and blue dresses of the Old Order Mennonites so I'm not sure if they're Mennonite but not Old Order or what they are. I'm sure between my group of friends and them we give a lot of other people walking along the boardwalk a double take (this side of the marina is just rocks, so not a sand, lounging, swimming beach)

[Hooligan]

We have a large population of both Mennonite and Amish in Ohio. So I see a number of them often. I bought a Mum plant from a Mennonite farmer yesterday at the Market. A lot of Amish and Mennonite farmers are at the markets and their daughters often sell baked goods.

Increasingly we have large numbers of Somali women in long skirts and full head covering showing only feet, face and hands. Most are very brightly colored and often decorated with sequins, fabric flowers and glitter. (if they are covering to be less attractive why do they want to draw attention?) I always wonder how they can stand the heat in all that polyester crap.

I hate Walmart for a number of reasons and only went to one when there were no other options until about two years ago when I could not step in one without coming across a woman and sometimes even tiny little girls in full Burka. I am talking a black tent with only eyes showing. I just could not look at that any more and so I have not stepped in a Walmart since. Many times when the black tent spoke I could tell that there was not a trace of accent other than the typical mid-western. That kind of scares me. Not sure if they are fundie Christian or Muslim.

[pennsatuckey]

We have a large population of both Mennonite and Amish in Ohio. So I see a number of them often. I bought a Mum plant from a Mennonite farmer yesterday at the Market. A lot of Amish and Mennonite farmers are at the markets and their daughters often sell baked goods.

Increasingly we have large numbers of Somali women in long skirts and full head covering showing only feet, face and hands. Most are very brightly colored and often decorated with sequins, fabric flowers and glitter. (if they are covering to be less attractive why do they want to draw attention?) I always wonder how they can stand the heat in all that polyester crap.

I hate Walmart for a number of reasons and only went to one when there were no other options until about two years ago when I could not step in one without coming across a woman and sometimes even tiny little girls in full Burka. I am talking a black tent with only eyes showing. I just could not look at that any more and so I have not stepped in a Walmart since. Many times when the black tent spoke I could tell that there was not a trace of accent other than the typical mid-western. That kind of scares me. Not sure if they are fundie Christian or Muslim.

This is incredibly Islamophobic. I bolded the parts that were particularly so.

Muslim women cover themselves out of modesty and as a symbol of their faith; not to look less attractive. You can still be modest while incorporating color and interesting details.

It is, moreover, a choice in many circles.

Do not refer to Muslim women who choose to wear burqa as 'black tents'. They don't refer to secular women who wear shorts as 'asses with legs'. She's a fucking person. Moreover, what you saw was likely a niqab. The burqa covers the eyes, but has a mesh screen to see through. Also, you haven't gone to Wal-mart since because you saw a conservative Muslim woman? I get that you have other reasons, but still: what the actual fuck.

And, yes, there are Muslims born in the United States, who grow up speaking English as their primary language. It's Islamophobic and racist as hell to assume that just because a woman is wearing a head-covering, she was not born here or does not speak English well. Also, you literally said that this fact "kind of scare[d] [you]".

[It'sFunToRun]

This is incredibly Islamophobic. I bolded the parts that were particularly so.

Muslim women cover themselves out of modesty and as a symbol of their faith; not to look less attractive. You can still be modest while incorporating color and interesting details.

It is, moreover, a choice in many circles.

Do not refer to Muslim women who choose to wear burqa as 'black tents'. They don't refer to secular women who wear shorts as 'asses with legs'. She's a ***ing person. Moreover, what you saw was likely a niqab. The burqa covers the eyes, but has a mesh screen to see through. Also, you haven't gone to Wal-mart since because you saw a conservative Muslim woman? I get that you have other reasons, but still: what the actual ***.

And, yes, there are Muslims born in the United States, who grow up speaking English as their primary language. It's Islamophobic and racist as hell to assume that just because a woman is wearing a head-covering, she was not born here or does not speak English well. Also, you literally said that this fact "kind of scare[d] [you]".

I think what Hooligan meant was that it scares her the idea that women who may not have grown up in Muslim countries are wearing this very extreme clothing that literally hides their identities ("black tent"). It's not racist or wrong to feel unnerved by seeing the spread of extremist religion. It's not racist or wrong to not be happy to see women cover their entire bodies and faces, restricting their freedom of movement, comfort, and vision. Hooligan might be a feminist. If you saw people near you converting to ATI, you'd probably say it "scares" you, and that's less fundie that the type of Islam that Hooligan is referring to.

[Hooligan]

This is incredibly Islamophobic. I bolded the parts that were particularly so.

Muslim women cover themselves out of modesty and as a symbol of their faith; not to look less attractive. You can still be modest while incorporating color and interesting details.

It is, moreover, a choice in many circles.

Do not refer to Muslim women who choose to wear burqa as 'black tents'. They don't refer to secular women who wear shorts as 'asses with legs'. She's a fucking person. Moreover, what you saw was likely a niqab. The burqa covers the eyes, but has a mesh screen to see through. Also, you haven't gone to Wal-mart since because you saw a conservative Muslim woman? I get that you have other reasons, but still: what the actual fuck.

And, yes, there are Muslims born in the United States, who grow up speaking English as their primary language. It's Islamophobic and racist as hell to assume that just because a woman is wearing a head-covering, she was not born here or does not speak English well. Also, you literally said that this fact "kind of scare[d] [you]".

I think you somewhat misunderstood me. I am seeing some Fundie Christians moving toward complete coverage and wearing Burkas. What scares me is the movement of Christians farther Fundie. I did not mean I fear Muslims. But I do abhor pushing women into this complete coverage. I believe it takes their humanity away. There is nothing in the Koran that says women must cover like that so I do not see it as anti-Mulsim but rather worry about the abuse of women. No matter what they may be programmed to say or say from fear I highly doubt they wish to dress that way. When I said "the tent spoke" it was in reference to the loss of personhood.

ETA - I do not oppose any religion or faith. But I DO oppose and yes even fear extremists of all kinds.

[pennsatuckey]

I think you somewhat misunderstood me. I am seeing some Fundie Christians moving toward complete coverage and wearing Burkas. What scares me is the movement of Christians farther Fundie. I did not mean I fear Muslims. But I do abhor pushing women into this complete coverage. I believe it takes their humanity away. There is nothing in the Koran that says women must cover like that so I do not see it as anti-Mulsim but rather worry about the abuse of women. No matter what they may be programmed to say or say from fear I highly doubt they wish to dress that way. When I said "the tent spoke" it was in reference to the loss of personhood.

I haven't seen fundamentalist Christians wearing burqa. With the level of observation of fundie culture here, I think we'd know about it.

You literally don't even know why the woman is wearing niqab in the context you gave. I know a good number of Muslim women who choose to wear hijab and are quite progressive. For instance, my friend who is Muslim started wearing hijab once women in France were persecuted for it. She was exercising her right to do so without legal persecution. Has she faced prejudices like yours for it? Of course. Does it deter her? No, because she believes what she believes and is proud of it. Her mother also wears hijab and was highly educated back in Pakistan. Her mother has also been a single mother since the death of her husband about 9 years ago. She has no plans to remarry until her children have graduated from college. Similarly, I also know Muslim women who don't wear hijab. It's a matter of preference.

http://www.fashfaith.com/p/islamic-mode ... quran.html

http://www.hautehijab.com/blogs/hijab-f ... atory-fard

http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_3 ... _hijab.htm

http://www.islamic-myths.com/islam/hija ... -of-islam/

You appear to be more concerned with policing women through western liberal feminism than you are about whether or not they're abused. Never mind that it may be their cultural preference, or that it's what they fucking want to do.

You're dehumanizing Muslim women by minimizing them to "black tents". That's blatantly offensive. You are the one who is taking away their personhood and ability to choose in this context.

Do I agree with the justification for Hijab? No. But will I denigrate a woman for choosing to wear it because it's what she wants? No.

Please fucking examine what you're saying. It's not okay and defending what you're saying with more offensive speech is even less acceptable.

[It'sFunToRun]

I haven't seen fundamentalist Christians wearing burqa. With the level of observation of fundie culture here, I think we'd know about it.

You literally don't even know why the woman is wearing niqab in the context you gave. I know a good number of Muslim women who choose to wear hijab and are quite progressive. For instance, my friend who is Muslim started wearing hijab once women in France were persecuted for it. She was exercising her right to do so without legal persecution. Has she faced prejudices like yours for it? Of course. Does it deter her? No, because she believes what she believes and is proud of it. Her mother also wears hijab and was highly educated back in Pakistan. Her mother has also been a single mother since the death of her husband about 9 years ago. She has no plans to remarry until her children have graduated from college. Similarly, I also know Muslim women who don't wear hijab. It's a matter of preference.

http://www.fashfaith.com/p/islamic-mode ... quran.html

http://www.hautehijab.com/blogs/hijab-f ... atory-fard

http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_3 ... _hijab.htm

http://www.islamic-myths.com/islam/hija ... -of-islam/

You appear to be more concerned with policing women through western liberal feminism than you are about whether or not they're abused. Never mind that it may be their cultural preference, or that it's what they ***ing want to do.

You're dehumanizing Muslim women by minimizing them to "black tents". That's blatantly offensive. You are the one who is taking away their personhood and ability to choose in this context.

Do I agree with the justification for Hijab? No. But will I denigrate a woman for choosing to wear it because it's what she wants? No.

Please ***ing examine what you're saying. It's not okay and defending what you're saying with more offensive speech is even less acceptable.

Chill out. Hooligan isn't ripping the headscarf off anyone.

[Hooligan]

I haven't seen fundamentalist Christians wearing burqa. With the level of observation of fundie culture here, I think we'd know about it.

You literally don't even know why the woman is wearing niqab in the context you gave. I know a good number of Muslim women who choose to wear hijab and are quite progressive. For instance, my friend who is Muslim started wearing hijab once women in France were persecuted for it. She was exercising her right to do so without legal persecution. Has she faced prejudices like yours for it? Of course. Does it deter her? No, because she believes what she believes and is proud of it. Her mother also wears hijab and was highly educated back in Pakistan. Her mother has also been a single mother since the death of her husband about 9 years ago. She has no plans to remarry until her children have graduated from college. Similarly, I also know Muslim women who don't wear hijab. It's a matter of preference.

http://www.fashfaith.com/p/islamic-mode ... quran.html

http://www.hautehijab.com/blogs/hijab-f ... atory-fard

http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_3 ... _hijab.htm

http://www.islamic-myths.com/islam/hija ... -of-islam/

You appear to be more concerned with policing women through western liberal feminism than you are about whether or not they're abused. Never mind that it may be their cultural preference, or that it's what they fucking want to do.

You're dehumanizing Muslim women by minimizing them to "black tents". That's blatantly offensive. You are the one who is taking away their personhood and ability to choose in this context.

Do I agree with the justification for Hijab? No. But will I denigrate a woman for choosing to wear it because it's what she wants? No.

Please fucking examine what you're saying. It's not okay and defending what you're saying with more offensive speech is even less acceptable.

Wait let me get this straight...it is OK to snark on long denim skirts and frumpers and little Duggars all in a row, but we cannot speak against women in Burkas?

Extremist is extremist.

Maybe examine your own speech first?

[pennsatuckey]

Wait let me get this straight...it is OK to snark on long denim skirts and frumpers and little Duggars all in a row, but we cannot speak against women in Burkas?

Extremist is extremist.

Maybe examine your own speech first?

I called your racist ass out because you're being racist and islamophobic while only examining things through a western lens. You literally called a Muslim woman a walking tent and then proceeded to say that it was acceptable to dehumanize her.

Shut the fuck up.

[It'sFunToRun]

I called your racist *** out because you're being racist and islamophobic while only examining things through a western lens. You literally called a Muslim woman a walking tent and then proceeded to say that it was acceptable to dehumanize her.

Shut the *** up.

Now this is a good example of well rustled jimmies :lol:

[Hooligan]

I called your racist ass out because you're being racist and islamophobic while only examining things through a western lens. You literally called a Muslim woman a walking tent and then proceeded to say that it was acceptable to dehumanize her.

Shut the fuck up.

ETA - Aside from misunderstanding and misrepresenting what I said,

Extremist is extremist. I cannot ignore it.