3rd Degree Burns on a Child: Priesthood blessing THEN 911

[DGayle]

To make a long story short years ago when dd#2 was five she woke up with"sore arm" she didn't do to much that day but did play outside. The next day her arm still hurt but she played all day with our new dog. Day three her arm still hurt so I called the dr and bought her in. She had a tiny fracture in her arm and CPS was called. They visited the school we went to the police station they ame to our house. It was scary and embarrassing but the whole time I was grateful that they were doing thier job. I could not blame them. I think any reasonable person would feel the same.

(We think she broke her arm falling out of bed during the night)

Calling CPS over relatively minor injuries makes a lot of parents scared to take their kids in when there are bigger emergencies because what is CPS is called and takes the kids away during the investigation? Hospitals that call over every accident may well result in people thinking twice about going in. A lot of CPS offices are so busy that they can't properly investigate when there's real cause to believe abuse is happening because they're having to go investigate minor injuries that come about during normal, non-abusive child activities.

[DGayle]

deseretnews.com/article/865606667/Hundreds-pray-and-fast-for-Utah-boy-burned-over-40-percent-of-his-body.html

I've got to work but I wanted to post this since I didn't see it previously.

Hundreds of idiots who don't know the full story about the kid cutting off his own flesh.

[DGayle]

Hundreds of idiots who don't know the full story about the kid cutting off his own flesh.

Let's see if my comment gets through:

Too bad this article was written before they edited the post about the accident. Max was cutting flesh off his arms, was tossed in a bath, doused in oil, and then set on a chaise lounge. They didn't start to the ER until he started having chills. Once at the burn unit and UofU, they put more oils on him before letting doctors know. Unsterile oil. The miracle here is that Max wasn't killed from the delay in medical care, and the unauthorized brand of medical care they started. It's also shameful that Natalie and Andy are using this life-threatening situation to try selling their oils as a miracle-cure for even third degree burns, turning into snake oil. It didn't do well enough to negate the need for real medical care, did it?

I've been closely following this case, and the miracle of MODERN MEDICINE that may have this boy. Prayer alone won't do it. Proper medical care gives him a chance.

[Trynn]

Calling CPS over relatively minor injuries makes a lot of parents scared to take their kids in when there are bigger emergencies because what is CPS is called and takes the kids away during the investigation? Hospitals that call over every accident may well result in people thinking twice about going in. A lot of CPS offices are so busy that they can't properly investigate when there's real cause to believe abuse is happening because they're having to go investigate minor injuries that come about during normal, non-abusive child activities.

I think in hat particular post it was the time delay that triggered the CPS call. The person who called probably thought there was neglect going on if a broken arm wasn't noticed and taken care of immediately.

[DGayle]

A kid who's using an arm without significant pain wouldn't trigger the thought of OMG possibly break. Expecting parents to catch a hairline fracture when a the child is still playing with the dog doesn't scream broken bone. To have caught this the first day would require parents who rush to the doctor for every ache and pain, and that's not reasonable. If there was a lot of pain, sure, but the child was fine enough to play with the new dog all day.

Several weeks ago, a friend's young son started hobbling. He didn't wince, just hobbled. After a few days, they took him in. There was no swelling or anything, and there ended up being a hairline. CPS wasn't involved since all the factors together didn't signal abuse. A reasonable person would expect a tweaked ankle or something.

What to look at is what would a reasonable person do? That's not rush to the doctor over every ache to make sure there's no broken bone. A call to the doctor would most likely result in being told to keep an eye on it and come in if it gets worse, with the typical, "But if you're really concerned, go ahead and come in."

[Grimalkin]

I think in hat particular post it was the time delay that triggered the CPS call. The person who called probably thought there was neglect going on if a broken arm wasn't noticed and taken care of immediately.

Correct

[Trynn]

I mean, I know this. But some people don't, hence the CPS call. My pint is I can see why the call might've been made by some administrator looking only at tick marks on a form or something. Clearly CPS was smarter, hence the dropped case.

[Firiel]

My roommate's sister came into town this past weekend, and she had a bag with some doTERRA essential oils in it!

That's all that happened. I wanted to quiz her on how they used them and tell her about the fiasco that is the Max Goddard story, but that would have totally been an ambush. Plus, I had already asked her about her underwear (she wears garments). :embarrassed:

[2xx1xy1JD]

Correct

Where I live, medical personnel are required by law to report any SUSPICION of child abuse. The call is made before the abuse is actually confirmed. Most cases are investigated and closed at the intake level.

If the injury was as stated and no other concerns were noted, case would be closed. If the explanations for the injury were inconsistent, or if other older healing injuries were found, or if previous calls had been received about the same family, etc., CPS may investigate further.

[Knight of Ni]

Calling CPS over relatively minor injuries makes a lot of parents scared to take their kids in when there are bigger emergencies because what is CPS is called and takes the kids away during the investigation? Hospitals that call over every accident may well result in people thinking twice about going in. A lot of CPS offices are so busy that they can't properly investigate when there's real cause to believe abuse is happening because they're having to go investigate minor injuries that come about during normal, non-abusive child activities.

My husband works for the local Department of Social Services which includes child protective services. He says more than half the calls received are unfounded. Many calls are from people whose neighbors trying to get back at neighbors who might have called on them. Some even give completely fake names and addresses. The really bad thing about all these unfounded cases is that since everyone has to go at least through the first round of investigation, the ones that are really serious often don't have the proper staff and time devoted to them. I would agree that it is good that the CPS would investigate because it shows that they are doing their jobs, it is annoying because a case that is truly in need might be over looked.

[emily]

Wow. They're up there in the doterra hierarchy. http://www.utahcounty.gov/LandRecords/P ... 3380019004

Check out the names of the previous owners, and Natalie's maiden name. Her parents?

[quinoa]

Smockity's in on the fun, too. At least her kid's burns were only second degree and she used a carrier oil.

smockityfrocks.com/2014/07/day-baby-burned-ramen-noodles.html

[Firiel]

And at least she made intelligent decisions regarding first aid and got her kid to the hospital quickly.

It also doesn't look like she started applying the oil until several days after the burn. I wonder if the thing about oil on burns still applies that far after the incident. It seems logical that tissue damage would be the only issue and that trapping heat in a burn wouldn't be a thing anymore. I have no real idea, though, as I'm not a medical person.

EDIT: I'm craving Ramen now. Reading that should not have made me crave Ramen. I'm broken.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Ouch, poor child :(

At least she took the kid to the hospital first without putting oils or anything other than water on it, and didn't start with the oils for a few days-after she had asked the hospital whether it would be okay. Its a whole lot better than pouring undiluted oil in a fresh 3rd degree burn before taking the kid to the hospital.

[ADoyle90815]

And at least she made intelligent decisions regarding first aid and got her kid to the hospital quickly.

It also doesn't look like she started applying the oil until several days after the burn. I wonder if the thing about oil on burns still applies that far after the incident. It seems logical that tissue damage would be the only issue and that trapping heat in a burn wouldn't be a thing anymore. I have no real idea, though, as I'm not a medical person.

EDIT: I'm craving Ramen now. Reading that should not have made me crave Ramen. I'm broken.

It's a good thing that she asked the hospital about using the oil treatment before doing so several days after her kid was burned, and that she got her kid to the hospital quickly. I do think that if the hospital staff told her to wait longer before starting the oil treatment, she would have listened to that advice as while she uses essential oils, she has the sense to also use modern medical treatment when necessary.

[church_of_dog]

I don't know what's happening to my head --

I'm not especially gullible but I have generally tended to believe stories -- I think it comes from me fully grasping how truth can be stranger than fiction, and if any of our lives were subject to the scrutiny of someone speculating that we weren't real, well, some of us would look somewhat suspicious just because our real lives are that odd.

I was really, really reluctant to stop believing in Razing Ruth, even after it was pretty darn clear to everyone else that it was a sham.

But now…

it all looks fake to me! The Goddard story seems fake to me, the Smockity story seems fake to me, the Ashleigh/Baileigh/Kaileigh blogs seem fake to me, heck even Lori Alexander's blog seems fake to me!

What is happening to me? :lol:

[happy atheist]

I don't know what's happening to my head --

I'm not especially gullible but I have generally tended to believe stories -- I think it comes from me fully grasping how truth can be stranger than fiction, and if any of our lives were subject to the scrutiny of someone speculating that we weren't real, well, some of us would look somewhat suspicious just because our real lives are that odd.

I was really, really reluctant to stop believing in Razing Ruth, even after it was pretty darn clear to everyone else that it was a sham.

But now…

it all looks fake to me! The Goddard story seems fake to me, the Smockity story seems fake to me, the Ashleigh/Baileigh/Kaileigh blogs seem fake to me, heck even Lori Alexander's blog seems fake to me!

What is happening to me? :lol:

One out of every two people on the internet is an axe-murderer. If it's not you, it's the other person.

[Coconut Flan]

I've found it's better to believe it's all make believe than to believe that's it's even half true.

[DGayle]

Smockity's in on the fun, too. At least her kid's burns were only second degree and she used a carrier oil.

smockityfrocks.com/2014/07/day-baby-burned-ramen-noodles.html

Ouch. I'm glad she at least rushed the kid to the ER (even that quick toss in the shower is a reasonable reaction since the child wasn't just on fire), but what is it with fundies using emergencies to hawk brands of oils? If you were thinking about how you need some oil, are you going to think, "I need some doTERRA/Living Young lavender oil," or just plain, "I need some lavender oil"?

[already hungover]

Why the fuck would you serve a preschooler a bowl of ramen that was so hot it could burn that severely? How was the kid supposed to eat it?

Also, I want ramen now too. I'm sick.

[Mama Mia]

Why the fuck would you serve a preschooler a bowl of ramen that was so hot it could burn that severely? How was the kid supposed to eat it?

Also, I want ramen now too. I'm sick.

I've actually known a few kids that got burned with Ramen. I think Ramen tends to be so much worse than a kid pulling a cup of hot coffee or soup off a counter because the noodles seem to retain the heat and stick to the skin.

Once my mom was camping with a few of her grand kids and I guess thought the ramen was cooler than it was when she handed it to my nephew, who spilled it all over his lap when he was in shorts, he had to go to the e.r., I assume they were second degree burns. As my mom tends to be insanely safety conscious, to a paranoid and o.c.d inducing degree, and also tends to infantilize small children -- I am thinking the bowl really, really did feel cool enough, she likely also tested the liquid inside the bow, and the noodles retained more heat than expected.

Another time a friend of the family had a 2 or 3 year old reach up and pull a hot bowl of ramen down on their face from the counter while their mother was standing right there laddeling it into a bowl. An older sibling had just come into the kitchen and left the baby gate open behind them for a split second and in came the hungry toddler. The kid had to be in the burn unit of a major hospital for a week or so, the photos looked horrific, this was a year or so ago and I was very relieved to see their was no visible scarring in a recent photo ( although it was a little blurry ).

Point being, people misjudge heat and toddlers are really fast. Accidents happen with small kids all the time, sometimes there is neglect involved, but often it really is an accident happening to children under the care of safety-conscious adults.

[Palimpsest]

There is "real" bought from an Asian restaurant and happily supped up Ramen noodle soup, home-made (healthy) Ramen soup, and "Instant" Ramen noodle soups made from plastic packets or in poly cups.

I love the real and home-made Ramen soup, but the "instant" crap is from the devil. Skyrocket high in sodium (I have to ask who the fuck eats that let alone gives it to their kids) and it's usually in a totally easily tip-overable container. It is nuked or has boiling water poured over it.

Yes, a simple Google confirms Smockety's claims that Ramen Instant soup (insert manufacturer) is to be blamed for many awful kiddie burns. Law firms are apparently collecting "Ramen soup burn" cases.

Is instant Ramen really a go-to lunch for many busy moms -- or is it just overwhelmed Fundie moms?

I have not watched the Duggar show for ages, but I remember seeing an episode a while ago when Michele Duggar nuked individual packages of Ramen noodles for the kids when the J'slaves were away.

Surely if you are a SAHM, home-made chicken noodle soup would both feasible and better? IDK.

I'm still trying to stifle myself on the victim of the original firework accident. I really hope the kiddo is doing OK. Despite his parents encouraging him to make fireworks and then dousing him in essential oils when he caught on fire. :shakehead2:

[DGayle]

Why the fuck would you serve a preschooler a bowl of ramen that was so hot it could burn that severely? How was the kid supposed to eat it?.

I test EVERYTHING before it goes in front of my girls. If I can't comfortably hold a finger in it for five seconds, they don't get it, and I don't leave it unattended. Soup, mashed potatoes, mac and cheese, nothing. It has to pass the five-second-finger test. And this is exactly why. I'm terrified of burns. One while having a small burn was enough, and you can bet your bottom dollar I put an auto-closing gate on the kitchen door to make sure they can't get to the stove and touch it, even after it's off.

So I just can't understand people looking at something and guessing the heat.

[Mama Mia]

I test EVERYTHING before it goes in front of my girls. If I can't comfortably hold a finger in it for five seconds, they don't get it, and I don't leave it unattended. Soup, mashed potatoes, mac and cheese, nothing. It has to pass the five-second-finger test. And this is exactly why. I'm terrified of burns. One while having a small burn was enough, and you can bet your bottom dollar I put an auto-closing gate on the kitchen door to make sure they can't get to the stove and touch it, even after it's off.

So I just can't understand people looking at something and guessing the heat.

Like I said, my mom is now, and always has been, insanely safety conscious, and she most definitely is NOT someone who would hand a kid a bowl of anything if she thought it was too hot. I had never heard of the 5 second thing, which sounds very smart, but I'm sure she thought it had cooled down enough.

With the other kid, although I don't know the family well I myself have had kids who would quickly slip through gates if an older sibling was going through. I also had one kid who at about 16 months, climbed out of his crib, scaled the baby gate, pulled out a row of kitchen cabinet drawers far enough to make a set of steps, used the steps to climb on the kitchen counter where he got a pair of scissors and a bottle of medicine out from above the kitchen sink and was trying to cut the top off the bottle of medicine-- when, fortunately, I came back from going pee and caught him. Yes, I am quite sure I was somehow neglectful for thinking I could pee. On the other end of the spectrum I have a granddaughter who as a one year old was reminding any adult if they left any sort of baby latch unlatched and pointing out any small object that fell to the ground, so a grown-up could put it up out of her reach. She was also not beaten, but I bet strangers would thing she was.

What I am trying to say is that yes, safety precautions are great, and necessary, but acting like every accident is somehow the parents fault is ridiculous. And if you kept them in such an air-tight, line-of-sight bubble 24/7/365 until there was absolutely no chance of anything going wrong, ever, I think you'd be inviting a huge host of other problems. Plus you do have to sleep sometime.

eta: and yes, after the medicine bottle incident we did get a locking box-- however, I think it would be reasonable to assume that bottles that had childproof caps and were in a high cabinet that we thought was inaccessible was safe from a baby who had only been walking a couple months-- we certainly didn't thing he was smart enough to escape all the various barriers and fashion a stairway to the dangerous goodies. He is very smart. And, amazingly, made it to adulthood, despite a childhood full of impulsive risky behavior. Also edited because I put too many easily identifiable childhood stories in!

[DGayle]

I didn't say every accident is necessarily a parent's fault. What I said is I don't understand why so many parents don't check the temperature of hot food before giving it to a kid. No one would dream of giving a warm bottle to a baby without checking the tempt, but it's so common for people to give hot food to toddlers and little kids, without first checking the heat, who then get burned when it spills, and it's so common for parents to leave piping hot food where it's easily reachable by the little ones. High cabinets and gates won't guarantee no accidents, but not checking hot stuff and leaving it within easy reach isn't even making an effort to prevent an injury.