3rd Degree Burns on a Child: Priesthood blessing THEN 911

[DGayle]

Minor miracle that I have no friends in common with either of them, and no friends in common with any of their friends. I just spend too look scrolling through.

Andy keeps saying that Max is receiving miracles. Hm. Where I come from, we call that "medical care," and save "miracle" for when there's no other explanation for someone suddenly getting better.

[DGayle]

Soo...to add to the 'wut?' factor, I emailed Robert Tisserand, the 'father of modern aromatherapy'' (his e-mail is listed on that page, evidently he collects stories of people that have been hurt using essential oils) and asked him to intervene with the parents. He told me he wouldn't, because he had heard of burns being successfully treated that way. So evidently this has been done before, which is a terrifying thought.

Yeah, and I've heard of large 3rd degree burns being treated at home too, but that doesn't mean the whispers through the grapevine are correct. Did Mr. T hear about LARGE 3rd degree burns on a CHILD being healed, or just smaller 3rd degree burns and other more minor burns? I could believe very small 3rd degree, and more minor, but not 25%+ of the human body having literally all the skin burned off.

[ViolaSebastian]

Let's just say that the impression I got from his e-mail signature was that he also hawked essential oils...so...ehhh.

[emesbe]

Here's a quite well done piece about this situation----and the doterra defenders are out. Wonder how long it will take them to find FJ?

http://www.mommyish.com/2014/07/08/dote ... ccident/2/

[ADoyle90815]

Here's a quite well done piece about this situation----and the doterra defenders are out. Wonder how long it will take them to find FJ?

http://www.mommyish.com/2014/07/08/dote ... ccident/2/

Someone there mentioned that someone on a forum notified CPS which has pissed off some people, but others have said that it's not surprising that CPS was called as they've done just about everything you're not supposed to do for severe burns, and that oils in general hold in heat. It was also mentioned in several comments that some essential oils need to be diluted in a carrier oil, and that lavender oil is one of those that shouldn't be used straight.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

This is making me severely sick to my stomach. That poor kid. I'll admit I use a drop of tea tree oil on minor burns I get in the kitchen and it works beautifully, but never in a million years would I douse my kid with anything in that situation! And I cannot believe they put him in a cold tub. Or let him keep walking while he was ON FIRE. They definitely did everything on the "don't do this" list. :angry-banghead:

My poor husband had a pressure cooker of potato soup explode on him* when he was about 12, and he sustained 2nd and 3rd degree burns over a good portion of his body (back, shoulders, neck, and cheeks). He was at his idiot of a step-grandma's house when it happened and even she had the fucking common sense to get him to a hospital and not try any woo woo medicine on him!! He spent his entire summer indoors, wrapped in sterile gauze.

*This is why I do not ever make potato soup or eat it in his presence, as the smell makes him vomit to this day, and I'm not allowed to have a pressure cooker.

[DGayle]

Someone there mentioned that someone on a forum notified CPS which has pissed off some people, but others have said that it's not surprising that CPS was called as they've done just about everything you're not supposed to do for severe burns, and that oils in general hold in heat. It was also mentioned in several comments that some essential oils need to be diluted in a carrier oil, and that lavender oil is one of those that shouldn't be used straight.

I outed myself there. I don't care who gets mad at me for it.

Did you see the comment from someone who said she's in her 20s and has been an LPN/RN (with the slash) for 16 years? And that this is what hospitals do now? No they don't, and she must be some genius to be a nurse before graduating high school.

[ViolaSebastian]

Honestly, if there's no issue (which I obviously don't think to be true) then the worst that will happen is a chat with a social worker about what happened. People are just getting up in arms because they don't understand how CPS investigations work.

Really, I think it's far more likely that they'll be required to complete some parenting classes. They'll learn when they should call 911. They'll learn not to dump oils on burns. It's hardly the end of the world and thousands have done it before them. They almost certainly won't remove him from his parents custody (why everyone thinks that that's the first thing CPS does after they get a phone call is beyond me), as the children seem well cared for and happy. Unless there's some sort of underlying abuse (doubtful), their not going to lose custody of Max or any of their other children.

[Trynn]

If I had made a mistake that caused my kid serious medical issues, I would be SEEKING those kinds of classes. CPS pointing me in he direction of said classes would result in me THANKING them. Profusely.

[Mama Mia]

Honestly, if there's no issue (which I obviously don't think to be true) then the worst that will happen is a chat with a social worker about what happened. People are just getting up in arms because they don't understand how CPS investigations work.

Really, I think it's far more likely that they'll be required to complete some parenting classes. They'll learn when they should call 911. They'll learn not to dump oils on burns. It's hardly the end of the world and thousands have done it before them. They almost certainly won't remove him from his parents custody (why everyone thinks that that's the first thing CPS does after they get a phone call is beyond me), as the children seem well cared for and happy. Unless there's some sort of underlying abuse (doubtful), their not going to lose custody of Max or any of their other children.

Well, realistically, and unfortunately, people's experience with CPS has a whole lot to do with socio-economic background and race/ cultural background. So while I think there is a less than 1% chance those particular kids would be removed -- many people just reading on the Internet might have a very different experience in their background.

I know most CPS workers are great and do their best to be objective and so on, but there really is still a great deal of bias regarding who is placed and who just gets referred for classes ( or has it dropped completely).

[chaotic life]

If I had made such a colossally huge error in judgment that it put my child in medical risk, I would be honest about the error and would NOT be touting it as a good thing and a reason to hawk my wares.

No, ordinary parents are not always going to even know how to react, and some people just flat out panic in a crisis and do insanely stupid things. I want very badly to believe that's what these parents did, but their own bragging betrays that conclusion.

Also,I've been a RN for 16 years, just completed my BSN and start NP school in September and NO that is NOT what they are doing these days. But not every nurse is created with equal intelligence. My profession has some of the brightest of the bright and some of the dumbest of the dumb, and the public lumps is all together and fails to understand ymmv with the IQ of any given nurse.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Well, realistically, and unfortunately, people's experience with CPS has a whole lot to do with socio-economic background and race/ cultural background. So while I think there is a less than 1% chance those particular kids would be removed -- many people just reading on the Internet might have a very different experience in their background.

I know most CPS workers are great and do their best to be objective and so on, but there really is still a great deal of bias regarding who is placed and who just gets referred for classes ( or has it dropped completely).

True to a certain extent.

CPS involvement sometimes starts because of one issue, but during the investigation, other issues are revealed.

So, let's say a child is in the hospital with serious injuries. CPS comes to investigate. If they see what looks like a happy, stable family, if the injury was clearly just an accident and if the hospital isn't reporting any concerns, they may quickly close the file.

Sometimes, though, they come out to investigate and find:

- the parents are screaming at each other

- mom is young and single with no support system

- parents speak little English and don't seem to fully understand what is happening

- there are questions about how the child was able to become injured and concerns about supervision

- there is a suspicion that drugs or alcohol use by parents may have played a role

- in the course of the investigation, serious mental health issues are discovered

- parent is distraught not just because of the accident, but because they can't afford some medical-related expenses or time off work and fear that they could lose their home

- parent comes from a tough background and comes across as "difficult" by making demands, complaining about the care, and being really suspicious on social workers.

- parent seems totally paranoid and refuses to cooperate with CPS investigation at all

Where I live, the original reason for the concern may turn out to be nothing, but CPS can get involved if they discover a more serious reason for concern.

The last 2 points were always frustrating for me, because I had clients who honestly loved their kids and hadn't done anything super-heinous, who could have had the CPS out of their lives fairly quickly if they had a better attitude. Instead, they didn't allow proper investigations, resisted counseling and classes, rejected any advice given and tended to piss off people instead of getting their support. So, fixable problems didn't get fixed, CPS wouldn't have confidence that they could ensure safety if the children were left in the home, and kids would get taken away. Some "difficult" clients got this way because of their background, others became paranoid by listening to others or reading certain internet sites. There is a notorious website where I live that comes up when people google the protection agencies, it looks legitimate at first glance, and it would scare the daylights out of the average person.

There are also cases where workers may ask more questions, or look harder for concerns, based on stereotypes, or overlook possible problems based of stereotypes. I found that lawyers, workers and courts tend to distill cases down to a sentence or two, and that brief summary tends to follow the case. "This is the case with the girl beaten and starved by the aunt" or "this is the case with the crackhead parents where the toddler nearly killed the baby" or "this is the case where the child refused to go to school at all". There are tons of cases, so a brief summary tends to define the whole case, and it matters if an issue is highlighted in the summary, or buried on page 47 of the file notes.

[bionicmlle]

NieNie linked to this story today. They will be getting more traffic, for better or worse.

I don't believe for a minute that a reputable burn center is allowing a family to pump random oils onto an open burn unless a judge made them.

[Grimalkin]

To make a long story short years ago when dd#2 was five she woke up with"sore arm" she didn't do to much that day but did play outside. The next day her arm still hurt but she played all day with our new dog. Day three her arm still hurt so I called the dr and bought her in. She had a tiny fracture in her arm and CPS was called. They visited the school we went to the police station they ame to our house. It was scary and embarrassing but the whole time I was grateful that they were doing thier job. I could not blame them. I think any reasonable person would feel the same.

(We think she broke her arm falling out of bed during the night)

[mirele]

Annnnd, here's the first news story about the Goddards. It's from the Deseret News aka the propaganda organ of the Mormon Church.

ALPINE — On July 2, Max Goddard, 15, was involved in an explosion in his garage that left him with third-degree burns on 30 percent of his body. Now the community has rallied around the young man from Alpine.

and

Max, who is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, was then given a priesthood blessing before his parents, Andy and Natalie Goddard, took him to the American Fork Hospital, the family explained on their blog. From there, Max was Life-Flighted to the University of Utah Hospital to be treated at the Burn Center.

deseretnews.com/article/865606667/Hundreds-pray-and-fast-for-Utah-boy-burned-over-40-percent-of-his-body.html

I've got to work but I wanted to post this since I didn't see it previously.

[2xx1xy1JD]

How long does it take to give a priesthood blessing? Any Mormon or ex-Mormons here who know?

Are we talking about 10 sec to say "Please God heal this child!", or some much longer process that would have further delayed treatment?

[mirele]

How long does it take to give a priesthood blessing? Any Mormon or ex-Mormons here who know?

Are we talking about 10 sec to say "Please God heal this child!", or some much longer process that would have further delayed treatment?

It involves getting a couple of priesthood holders together, getting a vial of consecrated oil out (they're usually tiny things kept on a keyring), placing a drop of oil on the crown of the head, then laying hands on the person and pronouncing a blessing which can be as long or as short as you're inspired. So maybe a minute? But it could go on for quite some time. I hope not.

[Firiel]

It involves getting a couple of priesthood holders together, getting a vial of consecrated oil out (they're usually tiny things kept on a keyring), placing a drop of oil on the crown of the head, then laying hands on the person and pronouncing a blessing which can be as long or as short as you're inspired. So maybe a minute? But it could go on for quite some time. I hope not.

When I asked my roommate's boyfriend (LDS guy), he said something similar. It's typically a short thing. He said it could just be one person, too. But for reasonable people, it happens after emergency medical care/transport to the hospital.

[ADoyle90815]

When I asked my roommate's boyfriend (LDS guy), he said something similar. It's typically a short thing. He said it could just be one person, too. But for reasonable people, it happens after emergency medical care/transport to the hospital.

Priesthood blessings usually don't last very long, just enough time for someone to put a couple of drops of consecrated oil on the head, and a quick prayer. Most of the time, the blessing is done after 911 is called and the person is in the hospital. It can be done with just one priesthood holder, but even if 2 of them do the blessing, it can easily be done without violating the 2 visitor policy in the ICU.

[nellautumngirl]

Do you think they may have money problems? Why else would they promote this scam so aggressively at a time like this?

Somehow the way they talk makes me stabby. "Today we had angelic help from nurses, doctors, gifted massage & energy workers", ugh. But who knows, they may be okay people who just overdo it when speaking fundie.

[Trynn]

Wait, massages for a person with 3rd degree burns over large parts of their bodies? I can't think of anything more painful.

[Jessica]

Oh BROTHER!!! I just read the Deseret News article (well 2 sentences before my brain checked out) and saw the crap on the side from his mom. Maybe this incident is his mission to remind people of miracles? :angry-banghead: NO MAYBE IT'S TO MAKE YOU AND YOUR IDIOT HUSBAND WAKE UP AND LEARN HOW TO PROPERLY CARE FOR YOUR KIDS, GENIUS.

[Coconut Flan]

Wait, massages for a person with 3rd degree burns over large parts of their bodies? I can't think of anything more painful.

That made me shake my head also. There is so much about this story that sounds so off from regular people would do and say.

[2xx1xy1JD]

How many of these massage and energy workers would even be allowed to visit him? I'm not a nurse, but doesn't having burns on 30% of his body mean that he has massive wounds and a huge risk of infection? I'm assuming that it's very different from the hoards of visitors that are allowed on something like the post-partum ward, and infection control would be a big priority.

[Mama Mia]

That made me shake my head also. There is so much about this story that sounds so off from regular people would do and say.

Maybe ( hopefully !) the massages are for the parts of his body that aren't burned. Even if he has burns on 30% of his body that leaves the majority of his body that might be getting stiff and sore being in strange positions and immobile in the hospital. My dad was recently hospitalized and on many machines in the ICU that made it hard to move for a month ( not for burns ) and it really helped his overall comfort quite a bit when massage therapists started working on him.