Another one bites the dust- Daniel Lockwood MERGE

[slickcat79]

I don't follow the Lockwoods extremely closely, but it's my understanding that all of the Mexican-born children were registered as American citizens and have US passports. There's at least one entry on the blog about taking one of the new babies to the consulate for his passport.

I kind of wonder what his options would be for staying in Mexico. It may be impossible, legally or financially, without the support of the home church. But depending on the nature of his "moral failure" and his connections to the community, he might be able to find other opportunities. Certainly the family could benefit from the lower cost of living.

[browngrl]

When I first read this news I was surprised and then I thought: why? Fundies have created a perfect storm for marital problems.

Marriage is not always easy - and to that fundies add money woes, +++ children, rigid gender roles with NO flexibility and in this case - living in a foreign country far from the support of family/friends. I can't imagine that it is easy for fundie wives to look after all those children and yet be forever fresh and sexually available to to their husband. I can't imagine that fundie husbands don't want to sometimes run away from the pressure of providing for their large families. I suspect that many of the fundie families we read about are living lives of quiet desperation - suffering inwardly while "keeping sweet" to the outside world.

[Patsy]

I do hope the best for Jaynee.

[Jana814]

I do hope the best for Jaynee.

Same here!

[justakitten]

Poor Jaynee and the kids.

[Howl]

I do hope the best for Jaynee.

Same here as well. This thread is my first exposure to the Lockwood family. Reading her blog, she does seem like a sincerely good hearted person who loves her husband, her children and the people in Mexico. Returning to the US will be a very, very difficult transition in many ways and massive culture shock for her children. Just from her blog, it appears that they live in a pleasant house. Can't imagine what the food bill will be for a family of 14 in the US. She does mention that the two oldest boys will be headed to Bible college very soon, so wonder if those plans have changed?

But, yes, I agree. In any country, and Mexico is certainly no exception, when you live either in poverty or on the brink of it, being in control of limiting family size is THE determining factor for slipping into abject poverty or rising out of poverty or even just maintaining on a day to day basis. These women know that. The Lockwoods are supported by the donations of people living in a first-world country. For these Mexican families, there is no group of people far away sending money, unless it is a family member in El Norte sending a small remittance.

I also noticed that the blog went dark between mid February and the April 21st post, so I guess the poop was hitting the prop during that time.

Sad on so many levels.

Marital infidelity does not surprise me in the least. It can happen any time, any place, to any type of person, male or female. It is a lower chakra issue!

[theologygeek]

I disagree to the bolded. These people made their livelihoods by living off the donations of others specifically for a purpose (their mission). Just as companies have owe their shareholders an account of their finances, so too do people who live off the donations of others based upon the pretext of a mission owe their beneficiaries an explanation of what happened when something significantly impacts that mission. Maybe Jaynee and Daniel do not personally owe the explanation, but the mission who employed them certainly does.

If this were purely private and Daniel had chosen to resign because of personal matters, I'd agree. But he was forcibly removed from his role and admits that his actions have impacted the mission. The people who supported that mission have a right to know, because they should be able to choose whether or not they want to continue supporting this program at all.

Edit To clarify: I think the Mission Org needs to release something like the following:

This is what happened, in a nutshell.

This is what we have done to rectify the situation.

This is what we will continue to do to fix the current situation.

This is what we will do going forward to prevent this from happening again.

Exactly Georgiana. This is a tax exempt charity and people donated. Someone needs to explain what happened. "I sinned and confessed" is not acceptable to the people who supported this mission.

[fundiefan]

I may be a bitch but I don't have any more sympathy for them or Jaynee than I do for Zsu. She chose her life. She attempts to force her views on others - that's the entire role of 'missionaries'. They try to convince Mexican citizens who are already poverty stricken that it's a sin/wrong to prevent further pregnancies. Hell, they push for more in the name of their god regardless of what they know about the lives, society and circumstances of those they are lying to. They live off the charitable donations of those who give money to the mission organization; they do not support themselves or their dozen kids - others do that, and their god isn't included.

Whether it was finiancial, sexual or other sin, it's all the same. He stomped on the trust others put in him; he allowed himself to be raised above others and he took advantage of them and is falling like so many of his kind do.

I don't care how 'nice' he was when he posted on FJ. He is still a fundie, taking money from others in order to save the heathen Mexicans from themselves with his god. And he let down everyone who depended on him.

[theologygeek]

Same here as well. This thread is my first exposure to the Lockwood family. Reading her blog, she does seem like a sincerely good hearted person who loves her husband, her children and the people in Mexico. !

She's an ass. What I quoted below is why I can't stand her or her husband. They ripped their children out of their homeland and wasted years of their lives doing mission work to people who already believed in God. They convinced people to leave their faith and practices, and convert to the Lockwood way of thinking. Why don't they go to the Middle East and try that? Why not convert the Muslims? Too afraid to be killed? God is big on martyrs, so there should be no fear. It's a surefire way to heaven, so why not go for it? Why do these creeps always have to go to other countries and bribe poverty stricken Catholics with food, clothing, and gifts? Never mind that there are children dying of starvation in Africa. Haiti is still a disaster and people are drinking from disease infested water. That's real mission work. Mission work is not converting Catholics to Protestantism. And anyone who does that is an intolerant, fanatical, creep in my book.

AnonymousJan 11, 2011, 5:36:00 AM

hi, i enjoy reading your blog, but i dont understand something, you say that in the place you are in mexico nobody was christian before you arrive there, but as i know in mexico most people are catholic and very religious(82.8% of the population is Christian. Roman Catholics are 76.5% as i can read in wikipedia), its different in this village or what happen?

Reply

Daniel and Jaynee Lockwood and FamilyJan 12, 2011, 9:48:00 PM

Dear Anonymous, Daniel here, before we arrived there were probably Christians here albeit not many. You are accurate to say that the majority of people here are Catholic and our town is no exception. However being Catholic or religious does not lead you to heaven. Eternal life is only found in Jesus Christ himself. No church can save you, no man, and no pope... only the Lord Jesus Christ himself and faith in His work on the cross, his burial and resurrection. That is not what is taught or believed here. Their faith lies in the Catholic church, and the virgin of Guadalupe. We try to introduce them to the true Savior. Hope that helps

Reply

AnonymousJan 13, 2011, 8:04:00 AM

ok i understand, so if im catholic, but i believe in jesus, and i was baptized when i was a baby, you believe i can go to heaven?

Reply

Daniel and Jaynee Lockwood and FamilyJan 13, 2011, 9:10:00 AM

Anonymous, only God knows the heart and that "great day" (day of judgment) will reveal the sincerity of our hearts.

However, although the Catholic doctrine will not lead anybody to heaven, the Scriptures will. I have said before that I am sure that there will be Catholics in heaven, but it will be IN SPITE of the Catholic Church and it's doctrine not BECAUSE of its teaching. If you believe that you deserve hell (repentance) because of your absolute sinfulness, and have believed that Jesus Christ paid the price of your personal sin on the cross and believe that He is your only Lord and Savior (faith) you are saved. Your Catholic baptism wasn't baptism... the only requirement for baptism is faith in Christ (you probably didn't have that as a baby)... you still need to get baptized. But most importantly, being Catholic or baptized has nothing to do with salvation. The Bible tells us to examine ourselves to see if we are truly in the faith. You do not want to find out in the end that you were not truly saved... too late (Matthew 7).

I Would be happy to continue this discussion, but this (blog) is not the correct format, feel free to send an email with any further questions or comments (daniellockwoodfamily@gmail.com. God bless you

[theologygeek]

I may be a bitch but I don't have any more sympathy for them or Jaynee than I do for Zsu. She chose her life. She attempts to force her views on others - that's the entire role of 'missionaries'. They try to convince Mexican citizens who are already poverty stricken that it's a sin/wrong to prevent further pregnancies. Hell, they push for more in the name of their god regardless of what they know about the lives, society and circumstances of those they are lying to. They live off the charitable donations of those who give money to the mission organization; they do not support themselves or their dozen kids - others do that, and their god isn't included.

Whether it was finiancial, sexual or other sin, it's all the same. He stomped on the trust others put in him; he allowed himself to be raised above others and he took advantage of them and is falling like so many of his kind do.

I don't care how 'nice' he was when he posted on FJ. He is still a fundie, taking money from others in order to save the heathen Mexicans from themselves with his god. And he let down everyone who depended on him.

Ha. You and I posted at the same time and said a lot of the same things. If you're a bitch, then I am too, because the Lockwoods make me sick.

[kpmom]

Besides starting a church and preaching, what kind of missionary work did the Lockwoods do?

I haven't looked at their entire blog so I might have missed something, but did they help these people in any way?

I see they gave out Christmas boxes once a year. Did they run any kind of food ministry? Orphanage? Shelter?

[TrueRebel1]

I may be a bitch but I don't have any more sympathy for them or Jaynee than I do for Zsu. She chose her life. She attempts to force her views on others - that's the entire role of 'missionaries'. They try to convince Mexican citizens who are already poverty stricken that it's a sin/wrong to prevent further pregnancies. Hell, they push for more in the name of their god regardless of what they know about the lives, society and circumstances of those they are lying to. They live off the charitable donations of those who give money to the mission organization; they do not support themselves or their dozen kids - others do that, and their god isn't included.

Whether it was finiancial, sexual or other sin, it's all the same. He stomped on the trust others put in him; he allowed himself to be raised above others and he took advantage of them and is falling like so many of his kind do.

I don't care how 'nice' he was when he posted on FJ. He is still a fundie, taking money from others in order to save the heathen Mexicans from themselves with his god. And he let down everyone who depended on him.

That is what irks me. I don't have a problem with missionaries, particularly, but I do have a problem with people "being called by God to the mission field" so that they can demand hand-outs and live on donations and raise their dozen kids without being financially responsible. The Lockwoods have the perfect sympathy card. They are missionaries! and have 12 kids! Who wouldn't feel a little guilty and donate? They've devised a version of welfare that is ok in the eyes of the church!

[hoipolloi]

Haven't followed this family but agree with all who said that a return to the US with beaucoup kids and no real job(S) waiting will be very hard on them all.

I had wondered what was up with being missionaries in Mexico which, as others have pointed out, is largely Roman Catholic. Arrogance springs eternal in the fundie breast, I guess.

[formergothardite]

Besides starting a church and preaching, what kind of missionary work did the Lockwoods do?

I haven't looked at their entire blog so I might have missed something, but did they help these people in any way?

I see they gave out Christmas boxes once a year. Did they run any kind of food ministry? Orphanage? Shelter?

I never got the impression that they did anything besides trying to convert the Christians into being Baptist Real Christians. The kids get my sympathy but Daniel and Jaynee get none. Jaynee is as much of a child collector as Michelle.

[WonderingInWA]

Besides starting a church and preaching, what kind of missionary work did the Lockwoods do?

I haven't looked at their entire blog so I might have missed something, but did they help these people in any way?

I see they gave out Christmas boxes once a year. Did they run any kind of food ministry? Orphanage? Shelter?

No orphanage, no shelter, but they seemed to welcome any and all into their home for meals whenever they could. They built a church building, started a Sunday school. They managed to convert a lot of the kids (hello, Christmas boxes -- I'd be a Christian too if I was a kid and didn't have many toys if only to get my hands on one of those Christmas boxes).

This last year, Jaynee posted something on one of the many photos of the kids getting their Christmas boxes. She tried to get photos of each recipient with their box so donors might have a chance of seeing who received the one they sent. Anyway, on one of the photos, she described the recipient as the son of a "drunkard" and that REALLY rubbed me the wrong way. It seemed so judgmental and really, who uses the word "drunkard"?

I am offended by their purpose to convert Catholics. Those poor people have been accosted by them for years, and she's always said that each time they win a soul, it's such celebration. It is disgusting to treat people like they are too stupid about their faith to be eligible to go to heaven, but that's what missionaries do.

[nokidsmom]

Exactly Georgiana. This is a tax exempt charity and people donated. Someone needs to explain what happened. "I sinned and confessed" is not acceptable to the people who supported this mission.

This is also my first exposure to the Lockwood family. I also agree that if Daniel was resigning of his own volition due to some personal issue, it would be one thing to keep it private. But since he was removed by the church/mission and admitted that his actions, whatever they were, affected the mission, then supporters of the mission have a right to know. If I gave money in support, the vague "I sinned and confessed" would not cut it for me.

[FundieWatcher]

Haven't followed this family but agree with all who said that a return to the US with beaucoup kids and no real job(S) waiting will be very hard on them all.

I had wondered what was up with being missionaries in Mexico which, as others have pointed out, is largely Roman Catholic. Arrogance springs eternal in the fundie breast, I guess.

My guess is because the evil Mexican government is trying to get families to responsible choices regarding reproduction.

[Georgiana]

It's been brought up before, but I want to bring it up again: the Lockwoods weren't just converting Catholics. They were also trying to undo the social programs and education provided by the Mexican government to combat poverty and other social ills because Jesus.

The Mexican Government was trying to promote family planning as a way to combat poverty. The Lockwoods were telling people to not worry about how they were going to feed their children and just keep having babies. Because Jesus.

The Mexican Government was trying to empower women, educate them about domestic abuse, and make sure they knew they had rights and support to provide for their own families and the right to leave any man who was dragging them down. The Lockwoods told women to stay in questionably abusive relationships and potentially let their children starve rather than going to work. Because Jesus.

The Lockwoods were not helping anyone. They did not set up any social services. They set up a Church and preached a set of rules that contained many things shown to exacerbate, not alleviate, poverty. They used tricks like free food and Christmas boxes to lure people in. Their family set an unattainable example to their congregation. They may be nice people, they may have good hearts, but what they did in Mexico was deplorable.

[fundiefan]

The Lockwoods went to Mexico because it's convenient for them. The majority of the country is Catholic so they are already Christian (just not the right kind according to the Lockwoods and all others who think like them). Because they are already believers, half the battle is won. Now they only need to convince them to believe the right way (because Jesus only rewards Christians who believe one way).

Mexico is close to home so they can drive home when necessary. While it's not exactly like crossing state lines, it is easier to set up a legal residence in Mexico than in, say, the Congo. There is little threat of violence in the area the Lockwoods are in; not that there is no threat, but it's on the peninsula and between tourist zones; it's relatievely safe, actually, for Mexico.

They do not actually help the citizens of Mexico with food, shelter, education, medical care, clothes, transportation or anything else those in poverty stricken areas need. Except for the Christmas boxes which typically contain very few useable items (not to diss those who try to help; there is just only so much one little box can do to help a life) and come once a year, they do not actually help these people. They preach, try to convert, lie to, maniuplate and stomp on existing beliefs.

[WonderingInWA]

Jaynee has also posted in the past about how many families there are in their region in Mexico where the parents are not married. Obviously very offensive to her. She was quite jubilant when one of the couples finally decided to marry. It was yet another "soul-winning" movement, I guess.

[fundiefan]

It's been brought up before, but I want to bring it up again: the Lockwoods weren't just converting Catholics. They were also trying to undo the social programs and education provided by the Mexican government to combat poverty and other social ills because Jesus.

The Mexican Government was trying to promote family planning as a way to combat poverty. The Lockwoods were telling people to not worry about how they were going to feed their children and just keep having babies. Because Jesus.

The Mexican Government was trying to empower women, educate them about domestic abuse, and make sure they knew they had rights and support to provide for their own families and the right to leave any man who was dragging them down. The Lockwoods told women to stay in questionably abusive relationships and potentially let their children starve rather than going to work. Because Jesus.

The Lockwoods were not helping anyone. They did not set up any social services. They set up a Church and preached a set of rules that contained many things shown to exacerbate, not alleviate, poverty. They used tricks like free food and Christmas boxes to lure people in. Their family set an unattainable example to their congregation. They may be nice people, they may have good hearts, but what they did in Mexico was deplorable.

We posted at almost the same time but you got it all out so much more coherently than I did. Thanks.

[debrand]

This is from under the post about trusting god-who she seems to believe talks through men- with the number of your kids

Anna, I know you are absolutely right. I wasn't trying to say it from a point of Mexico is this way in comparison to any other country. I know American has turned her back on God. But I guess I see American (not sure about other countries as I have no experience anywhere else) as not only being founded on Biblical principles, but having had the gospel, the Word of God, and the Truth for so long. They've just rejected it. And the church as a whole in America knows the truth, but has turned away from it.

Here, I feel that the truth has hardly been taught. The gospel is new here and the churches have not had the training/teaching and resources that American has. And there are so few here preaching it.

But, yes, I agree! Thank you for sharing, Anna! Dios te bendiga!

The Lockwoods seem like pleasant people that doesn't mean that some of their views aren't offensive. They hold a lot of fundamentalist views with the exception that they aren't anti modern medicine. Although I feel bad for them, they aren't my pet fundies either. Hopefully, whatever Daniel did it was something that we wouldn't consider a betrayal of his wife, children or congregation.(Adultery, stealing etc) They might be likable but they are hurting a lot of people.

[debrand]

The Lockwoods went to Mexico because it's convenient for them. The majority of the country is Catholic so they are already Christian (just not the right kind according to the Lockwoods and all others who think like them). Because they are already believers, half the battle is won. Now they only need to convince them to believe the right way (because Jesus only rewards Christians who believe one way).

Mexico is close to home so they can drive home when necessary. While it's not exactly like crossing state lines, it is easier to set up a legal residence in Mexico than in, say, the Congo. There is little threat of violence in the area the Lockwoods are in; not that there is no threat, but it's on the peninsula and between tourist zones; it's relatievely safe, actually, for Mexico.

They do not actually help the citizens of Mexico with food, shelter, education, medical care, clothes, transportation or anything else those in poverty stricken areas need. Except for the Christmas boxes which typically contain very few useable items (not to diss those who try to help; there is just only so much one little box can do to help a life) and come once a year, they do not actually help these people. They preach, try to convert, lie to, maniuplate and stomp on existing beliefs.

You said this much better than I did.

[docmom]

It's been brought up before, but I want to bring it up again: the Lockwoods weren't just converting Catholics. They were also trying to undo the social programs and education provided by the Mexican government to combat poverty and other social ills because Jesus.

The Mexican Government was trying to promote family planning as a way to combat poverty. The Lockwoods were telling people to not worry about how they were going to feed their children and just keep having babies. Because Jesus.

The Mexican Government was trying to empower women, educate them about domestic abuse, and make sure they knew they had rights and support to provide for their own families and the right to leave any man who was dragging them down. The Lockwoods told women to stay in questionably abusive relationships and potentially let their children starve rather than going to work. Because Jesus.

The Lockwoods were not helping anyone. They did not set up any social services. They set up a Church and preached a set of rules that contained many things shown to exacerbate, not alleviate, poverty. They used tricks like free food and Christmas boxes to lure people in. Their family set an unattainable example to their congregation. They may be nice people, they may have good hearts, but what they did in Mexico was deplorable.

Kind of ironic that having too many children to feed and the inability to escape a poor domestic situation may just be around the corner for them, hmmm?

[Howl]

Excellent points. Obviously, I'm a sucker for nice seeming people. Thanks for sharing this perspective, and I do agree with all of your points, as well as others who have posted similar views. I don't mind the wake-up call at all!

It's been brought up before, but I want to bring it up again: the Lockwoods weren't just converting Catholics. They were also trying to undo the social programs and education provided by the Mexican government to combat poverty and other social ills because Jesus.

The Mexican Government was trying to promote family planning as a way to combat poverty. The Lockwoods were telling people to not worry about how they were going to feed their children and just keep having babies. Because Jesus.

The Mexican Government was trying to empower women, educate them about domestic abuse, and make sure they knew they had rights and support to provide for their own families and the right to leave any man who was dragging them down. The Lockwoods told women to stay in questionably abusive relationships and potentially let their children starve rather than going to work. Because Jesus.

The Lockwoods were not helping anyone. They did not set up any social services. They set up a Church and preached a set of rules that contained many things shown to exacerbate, not alleviate, poverty. They used tricks like free food and Christmas boxes to lure people in. Their family set an unattainable example to their congregation. They may be nice people, they may have good hearts, but what they did in Mexico was deplorable.