Homeschool parents/SIX sons charged with sexual abuse of gir

[DomWackTroll]

According to Scott Brown, Scott Brown is the hero here:

scottbrownonline.com/eric-jackson-and-the-power-of-the-gospel/

Oh, Christ, even in a story about "straight" sexual abuse, he just has to drag the "sodomites" into it, doesn't he? Scott, go fuck yourself with a half-price Vision Forum sword.

[Othello]

No, whatever you all think, I believe that the bolded statement this is NOT accurate with regards to an anti-government midset. The boys might have had this view, but I wouldn't consider it mainstream AT ALL. There are certainly a few elements of that crowd that are attracted by some of the products, but they are a fairly small percentage and you actually have a fairly good number of more pro-government / military families in the movement that are probably more mainstream.

Actually, a lot of the folks in this movement, especially those from the Gothard / IBLP camp are WAAAY more pro-government / big-government Republican types that look down their noses at the libertarian types.

I don't know if you've been to No Hope Baptist but a large number of the "men" (most often self-important late-teen—early 20's spouting DP/Scott Brown ideology such as death to adulterers) carry weapons (firearms for the older, absurdly large knives for the younger) even to church, and there's a strong pro-Confederacy sentiment. They are not so much libertarian types as Rushdoony-esque Reconstructionists who believe that the current government is evil. I'm more of a true libertarian type (yes, that means no laws prohibiting same-sex marriage, just as their should be no laws prohibiting gun ownership or church meetings), and they certainly didn't like me much. The IBLP folks tend to be a bit different, as you said, more of the Good Old Boy GOP bunch, at least until a Mormon runs on the Republican ticket.

[dcmhejbl62]

Maybe its different in bigger schools. My high school had about 800 students or so and I had the same French teacher for all four years, as well as the same English and math teachers for 2 years (though not consecutively). There was definitely time for teachers to know their students very well and pick up when something was going poorly.

Our teachers were also required to call the parents of every student they taught on a monthly (or close to it, monthly or 6 weeks) basis and give a report on how that child was doing in school. The teachers I was close with absolutely dreaded this because good calls just ate up time and calls where they had to a report a child doing poorly/not turning in work were usually met with hostility/yelling/being cussed out/told they weren't doing their job. They very often expressed that it was difficult to reach out to parents of struggling students when the students didn't care because it wasn't very welcome and perhaps this is a cultural issue that manifests in an "us v. them" attitude. This really must very school to school but mine very much forced teacher/parent interaction regarding grades and many teachers took troubled students under their wings without contacting parents in sensitive situations.

I definitely think small schools can be better at that. Not many smaller options around here, outside of rural / private.

Of course, if we take the argument that smaller schools = more personalized attention, we wind up right back at homeschooling ;).

FTR, we have homeschooled, private schooled, and public schooled, and I taught in suburban and rural schools. I've just never found one educational system that was perfect for every child. Options are best. And standards and oversight, however imperfect and in need of constant tweaking, are a must in all school environments.

[theologygeek]

Bullshit.

What if you didn't homeschool? What if you had a baby and a toddler? You'd be perfectly happy to let a government official into your house to see if you're doing things "right"? And who decides what is right? Your kids' fingernails are too long, you're not grooming them well enough. The baby isn't chubby enough, you will have to switch to formula. The baby is too chubby, you have neglected her by not breast feeding. You have cereal with hfcs and dyes, throw it out. How many hours have you logged reading to them this week? May I look at their closets please? Are you sleeping enough, is your patience wearing thin, are you getting angry with your children? It doesn't matter how much you're working with them at home, they have to go to preschool to get used to it. Wait, they're in daycare while you work, unacceptable.

Where the hell would it stop?

Do you realize that you just said bullshit to someone's feelings? lol Feelings aren't right or wrong...they just are. I really wouldn't care who came into the house to question my kids if they were homeschooled. It's no big deal to me. If it saved a child's life, then sure, knock your socks off.

[SpeakNow]

Paganhomeschooler

She turns in homework, but there is no one overseeing her making sure turns in all of it. She's gotten lazy, like any kid, and lied to me and said she doesn't have homework and doesn't turn it in. She's a middleschooler. There is not one singular person who is overseeing her work, though, and asking questions. Sorry, I'm working and trying to get out a coherent thought and get my work done at the same time. Not all of her homework is graded, either. Some of it they go over by themselves in class, so the teacher has no proof if they did it or not. It was stuff for practice. She also has different teachers for each class, so she could turn in all of her language arts but no science and her homeroom band teacher would never know the difference. My elementary daughter has a D- in math right now and didn't bring home/do the extra credit she was given. No one was holding her hand and making sure it was done at school. I had asked how she was doing because I had noticed her grades not looking that great, and all they said was, "well, we send the papers home." When I mentioned setting up some way of being notified so I can make sure she does it, I was told the same thing. It's her responsibility. She doesn't need hand holding. But sending someone to my house to make sure my son is doing his workbook is a pressing concern? Hell, I didn't do my homework in high school. I knew I could ace the tests and get extra credit and still score a B or better, so I didn't do it because it wasn't worth wasting my time. My teachers knew I didn't do my homework, but they didn't do anything about it. Which is, again, the point I was trying to make.

It's not standard practice at public schools to ask kids if they're doing their work or if they're being abused, so why should it be standard practice to do it to homeschoolers?

I don't know what kind of public school your child attends, but I can tell you that where I teach, it is absolutely standard practice to ask kids if they're doing their work. Here's the thing; I can make sure the child writes down the homework. I can make sure I answer any questions about the homework. I can make the child completes any missed homework during lunch. I can't force the child to do homework at home. I will call or email parents of kids who don't do their homework, but, ultimately, it is the parent's job to make sure that homework gets done.

Also, thanks for shitting all over public school teachers. We obviously don't care about our students or try to get them out of horrible situations. It's not like one of my colleagues decided to become a foster patent because one of our students, who has Autism and doesn't react well to change, was going to be placed into foster care. She became his foster parent so that he would not be thrown into an unfamiliar situation with unfamiliar people. It's not like I stay after school almost every day (on my own time...I don't get paid extra) to help kids with homework or catch up on missing work. It's not like another special education teacher reported abuse because a child with severe disabilities came in covered with bruises and was afraid to go home after school.

No...you're right. We don't try to prevent abuse. We don't try to make kids get their work done. We're all just lazy and don't care.

[formergothardite]

No, whatever you all think, I believe that the bolded statement this is NOT accurate with regards to an anti-government midset. The boys might have had this view, but I wouldn't consider it mainstream AT ALL. There are certainly a few elements of that crowd that are attracted by some of the products, but they are a fairly small percentage and you actually have a fairly good number of more pro-government / military families in the movement that are probably more mainstream.

Actually, a lot of the folks in this movement, especially those from the Gothard / IBLP camp are WAAAY more pro-government / big-government Republican types that look down their noses at the libertarian types.

That wasn't my experience at all. Many of these people were anti-government getting involved in their life(like most of them are strongly against any sort of regulation of homeschooling) but they were very pro-government getting involved in the lives of people they didn't approve of, like they were anti-gay marriage, anti-Muslim, anti-anyone who isn't conservative Christian. It was okay for the government to get involved into those people's lives and regulate their lives, but when it came to conservative Christians the government needed to be hands off. There was a lot of fear of the government coming to steal children from the homes of homeschooling Christian parents and put them into liberal homes. So they might have been pro-military but they still thought they should have the right to do whatever the fuck they wanted to do when it came to their kids and the government better stay the hell out of their lives. But those gay parents down the road, the government sure better get involved and remove the kids.

I do think that there needs to be more oversight when it comes to homeschooling, but I'm not sure what the answer is.

[Columbia]

I'm wondering if the dad had a more active part in this...I totally agree that there's probably more of a family history of sexual abuse.

I also am saddened by thinking about girls out there in similar families where nobody is confessing. Sickening.

It might make me unpopular, but I feel really sad for the brothers. I don't think anyone wakes up on that first day planning to rape their baby sister. Their lives must have been hellish, and now they've been so far twisted, who knows where they'll end.

Please don't misunderstand; what they did was abominable. There has to be something somewhere in each of them that at one point looked at their sister and said "this is wrong." And it's so sad that these people all lost that part of their humanity.

*scurries off stage*

[CloakNDagger]

That wasn't my experience at all. Many of these people were anti-government getting involved in their life(like most of them are strongly against any sort of regulation of homeschooling) but they were very pro-government getting involved in the lives of people they didn't approve of, like they were anti-gay marriage, anti-Muslim, anti-anyone who isn't conservative Christian. It was okay for the government to get involved into those people's lives and regulate their lives, but when it came to conservative Christians the government needed to be hands off. There was a lot of fear of the government coming to steal children from the homes of homeschooling Christian parents and put them into liberal homes. So they might have been pro-military but they still thought they should have the right to do whatever the fuck they wanted to do when it came to their kids and the government better stay the hell out of their lives. But those gay parents down the road, the government sure better get involved and remove the kids.

I do think that there needs to be more oversight when it comes to homeschooling, but I'm not sure what the answer is.

Well, that's kind of what I was saying. They don't like the true libertarian types. ie. they are hypocritical. I'm personally against the government getting more involved in homeschooling as I don't believe that they actually do much more for true accountability than any of these other organizations. OTOH, I have a real problem with laws already on the books being ignored and justice being overlooked.

[Sumeri]

This is totally sickening. Also, it reminds me of a certain X-Files episode...

wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_(The_X-Files)

That XFiles episode was the first thing I thought about, too.

[Angharad Crewe]

It might make me unpopular, but I feel really sad for the brothers. I don't think anyone wakes up on that first day planning to rape their baby sister. Their lives must have been hellish, and now they've been so far twisted, who knows where they'll end.

Please don't misunderstand; what they did was abominable. There has to be something somewhere in each of them that at one point looked at their sister and said "this is wrong." And it's so sad that these people all lost that part of their humanity.

*scurries off stage*

As other posters have said here, it sounds like the brothers were not the originators of the abuse. They must have picked it up from somewhere. The thing that really strikes me is that their mother supposedly witnessed her sons molesting their sister and she did nothing. What kind of parent walks away from their child being raped? I'm not trying to "blame the mother" for the crimes of her sons, but that piece of information implies that there are many levels to how fucked up that family is. I wonder if the parents sexually abused the brothers to "discipline" them and teach them how to obey, and in turn, the brothers mimicked that behavior with their baby sister. Or if the mother was herself abused by her brothers/uncles/father/cousins and so saw nothing wrong with that type of behavior.

On the subject of public school teachers, homeschooling and government oversight, I have to agree with the posters who said that a lot of abuse in public schools flies under the radar. It was a well known fact at my schools that there were kids who came from physically abusive families. Some of these kids were beaten by their parents and some of them witnessed all kinds of messed up and dysfunctional behavior. I knew a high school kid who killed someone and is now serving time in jail. There were warning signs that he was being abused for years before that incident. For what it is worth, my teachers were almost all wonderful people and educators who cared about their students. I'm sure that they reported the issues that they saw, but I'm sure that there was plenty more beneath the surface that was hidden.

Personally I doubt that having some bureaucrat enter homeschoolers house's to ask their children questions would do anything but create even more resentment. It would be an obvious violation of 4th amendment rights and I doubt that most children would disclose to a complete stranger about their abuse anyway. I don't like the "slippery slope" argument, but that scenario could very easily devolve into the government micromanaging all parenting decisions. I understand where the desire to uncover abuse using any means possible comes from, but it just doesn't seem like it would be very effective and it might cause even more damage as abused children might be taught not to trust anyone and so never seek help.

[fiery redhead]

This is Scott Brown's church. Oh shits.

[debrand]

Ack. I am an idiot and posted a new thread on this issue. :embarrassed: Yeah, I should have looked first

A lot of the ideology that Scott Brown teaches probably makes sexual abuse easier to conceal. Kids are taught to follow rules, hide their own emotions and doubts and follow a strict hierarchy that they aren't supposed to question. Plus, a lot of the blogs we cover seem to accept that men are unable to control their sexuality unless women help them. It surprises me that we haven't heard more similar cases.

In NC, parents have to test their children every year and turn in the results so I highly doubt that the boys couldn't even spell their own names.

Perhaps all children, public and homeschooled, should be required to have a physical checkup every year? I support homeschool regulations but in order to be fair, those rules will have to apply to all kids.

[debrand]

That XFiles episode was the first thing I thought about, too.

Not only is that my favorite episode, it is also one of the more disturbing ones too.

[formergothardite]

Ack. I am an idiot and posted a new thread on this issue. :embarrassed: Yeah, I should have looked first

A lot of the ideology that Scott Brown teaches probably makes sexual abuse easier to conceal. Kids are taught to follow rules, hide their own emotions and doubts and follow a strict hierarchy that they aren't supposed to question. Plus, a lot of the blogs we cover seem to accept that men are unable to control their sexuality unless women help them. It surprises me that we haven't heard more similar cases.

In NC, parents have to test their children every year and turn in the results so I highly doubt that the boys couldn't even spell their own names.

Perhaps all children, public and homeschooled, should be required to have a physical checkup every year? I support homeschool regulations but in order to be fair, those rules will have to apply to all kids.

They are not required to pass any of the tests, just turn them in and since they can be administered at home by the parents, there is nothing to stop the parents from doing the test for the children. I know at least one homeschooling parent in NC who would sit with their children and coach them through the tests.

Back in the early 90's when we were first starting to homeschool I remember that we had to go somewhere to take the test and it had to be administered by a non-parent, but even then you didn't have to pass any of the tests, just take them and turn them in.

[debrand]

They are not required to pass any of the tests, just turn them in and since they can be administered at home by the parents, there is nothing to stop the parents from doing the test for the children. I know at least one homeschooling parent in NC who would sit with their children and coach them through the tests.

Back in the early 90's when we were first starting to homeschool I remember that we had to go somewhere to take the test and it had to be administered by a non-parent, but even then you didn't have to pass any of the tests, just take them and turn them in.

You're right. I hadn't really considered that some parents might not give a damn about their children's education and cheat.

[ThatSnark]

Resurrecting this old thread because I inadvertently find myself hearing all about it.... from my piano tuner. He called last night to set up our annual appointment, then asked me if I remembered his apprentice from a couple years ago (I did). Turns out that strange but affable young man was/is Eric Jackson. :pink-shock:

He wanted me to know that he had cut all ties with Eric, had turned down Dad Jackson's plea for bond cash to help spring the brothers, and was still stunned that he personally had not had the discernment to realize that this upstanding Christian young man was neither upstanding nor Christian. We had a long conversation on how child molesters don't WANT you to know they're anything but lovely people, and that he was not to blame for taking Eric under his wing to teach him a trade.

Then my piano tuner said he'd been introduced to Eric by another customer...... Scott Brown, whose pianos he's been tuning for years. He (my tuner) will be here to take care of my piano this afternoon; I'll see if he has anything to say. We had an interesting conversation about the patriarchal movement, sheltering children from mandatory reporters, and Doug Phillips. Free Jinger in 3D.

This fellow can run on about things because I think piano tuning is kind of a solitary occupation, so he likes to talk when he can.... but this time, it got INTERESTING. :shock:

[browncoatslytherin]

oooo, snark, that sounds really interesting! you must let us know what else the piano man says.

[Loveday]

Wow. :shock: What a weird coincidence. Yes, please, keep us updated.

[starfish]

Very interesting---we all expect a full report !

Is Scott Brown Kelly's dad?

[Four is Enough]

Good Gawd, I just read through all of this. How horrible. My first thought is that the boys just didn't think this up. They were exposed to this in some way. Were the older children abused by a parent-figure, a "funny uncle", a grandparent-figure? They ALL need some counseling and right now. And the mother. If she herself was abused sexually, she might think her daughter" was just getting what was coming to her."

Illiterate or not, they all have some answers to give. Will we hear them?

[ThatSnark]

Scott Brown is Kelly's dad and Peter's father-in-law, yes.

Piano tuner is tuning the piano right now, but here's what he said before he got started:

-- Eric and his brother Matt (?) moved to Wake Forest specifically to participate in Scott Brown's ministry. Interns? Don't know, but they were there most days doing something for Scott Brown or the family. Sounds like interns to me.

-- Eric was following the church teaching of a young man going out to build an independent business to support a future family, which is how he explained himself to PT (I'm going to shorten Piano Tuner to PT to save pixels). PT thought that sounded very responsible and unusual for a young man these days; PT is probably in his mid-late 50s.

-- Eric and one to three brothers were living in an apartment in Wake Forest while working on various business prospects in the area and attending Brown's church.

-- Eric invited PT to Scott Brown's "annual festival" at the family farm, but PT had read enough on Eric's Facebook to know that Scott Brown's teaching's didn't sit well with his own Southern Baptist background, so he told Eric that he was already saved and not to go any further with the "religious stuff" while they were doing apprenticeship.

-- This didn't stop Eric! Eric continued to invite him to church and would get very heated about political or social issues when they were casually discussed. PT had to counsel him not to engage that way with clients or he wouldn't have much of a business.

-- PT got a little weirded out when Eric's Facebook page had advice to not read classic literature because it was evil, and they had an argument about that.

-- Eric was often unavailable due to church obligations, which concerned PT because he was hoping to share the business with him, and this wasn't looking promising or entrepreneurial.

-- The church/religious blowups made PT increasingly uncomfortable toward mid 2012, so he gradually stopped returning Eric's calls and stopped inviting Eric along on jobs. Eric would occasionally drop by the shop (rebuilding/repairing) but PT would not have work for him (not truly, but it turned him away) and he felt Eric had gotten the message by early 2013.

-- But the message Eric had gotten was from the police. Eric was incarcerated in mid-2013.

-- Summer 2013, phone rang for PT and it was Mark Jackson, Eric's father. PT was stiff with him on the phone, but let him know that he knew everything. Jackson stated that he was trying to raise bond money to get Eric out of prison and back with the family in Colorado. PT told him that he was no longer connected with Eric and didn't want to be part of any of this, and hung up the phone.

-- PT describes Eric as polite, respectful, musically literate but "very oddly not a good reader." (I am an adult literacy tutor now) He thought that the homeschool was very religious and not very academic, and I confirmed that there were indeed HS in this movement that sought to keep children unable to question or think critically.

-- PT is very shaken up that he spent hundreds of hours teaching this young man every aspect of his lifelong trade with the idea to eventually sell him the business, and had no inkling that he was a child molester. This social worker talked to him about the fact that child molesters don't want you to know that about them and that they spend a lot of energy being charming so that there's no hint of suspicion.

-- PT confirmed that the victim is the younger sister of the boys in prison, and that the authorities had to wait until she turned 16 and could be reached without parental consent.

I think that's all. I'll see if he wants to talk more about it after he's done with the piano. *whew*

[thoughtful]

Thanks for the further information, ThatSnark.

Obviously, the true victim of this fucked-up family is that poor girl.

But people like that hurt others around them, as well. My sympathies to your tuner for what he went through.

[ThatSnark]

He finished the tuning for the year, but before he left, he apologized for bringing Eric to the house in 2012, and I told him that wasn't necessary-- how could anyone have known? The sister is truly the victim here. He mentioned that an older sibling had married and moved to Colorado, and this is the reason the parents and remaining children moved out there, to live with this adult child and hope things blew over; instead, the law came calling and the case is continued until fall while they gather more evidence.

I wondered why there hadn't been more press coverage. PT told me another client works for WRAL, the CBS news station here, and while she had heard of it, her take was that "it's hard to cover a can of worms that big with the short stories we tell." While she's partially correct; there's no way the 5:00 news could untangle this mess sufficiently, I would imagine we'll see it come out when it goes to court. She implied that the news station doesn't like to malign People Of God and alienate their viewers, but in this case, it's more than warranted, especially since this fellow was plying his trade in houses all over the area.

Anyway, my piano will need another tune-up next August, and I am sure we will have much to discuss by then. Goodness, it's a small world.

[huntergirl]

Holy cow, ThatSnark! It is truly a small world. Speaking of small world, I am fairly local to you and have also been disappointed in the lack of media coverage about this incident. :( I understand the reasoning - it is a fairly involved story and not meant for the 5-6:00 small blurb-type news on WRAL - but I would think it could be considered for one of their "special report" type programs or at least a story for their long morning news program. Something...anything - this is actually newsworthy.

[Walking Cat Bed]

I've tried searching on WRAL and N&O, and have come up empty. I wish they'd cover this.

(Also in the area! One of the Wolves.)