Homeschool parents/SIX sons charged with sexual abuse of gir

[mirele]

It's intimated in some news articles that the Jackson sons may have been poorly served by their homeschooling education.

Josh Powell wanted desperately to go to public school because he didn't think he was being properly educated at home. However, because of the law, his parents had control of his education and the public school would not let him enroll. He had to get remedial education at a community college before he could go on to Georgetown University. Virginia requires NOTHING from parents.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/stu ... story.html

That's why I think it's way past time to get just a modicum of oversight of homeschooling parents. Not just for abused kids, but for kids who are getting horrible educations. It does society as a whole no good if people are so badly educated they can't fend for themselves.

[Arete]

I am all about much tighter homeschool education standards. Much tighter. But I can't get behind giving social workers, police, or any authority the right to be able to go in and question homeschoolers about abuse simply because of the fact they are homeschooled. I can see making yearly safety lessons with documentation a requirement for homeschoolers, such as proof they know when and how to dial 911, what abuse is, how to avoid or get help for drugs and alcohol etc. Make it age and grade appropriate, tie it into health lessons like the public schools.

Interrogating homeschoolers on the basis of education choice is never going to fly or pass a court challenge. It will rightfully be seen as social profiling and I fear used as a bloody shirt to derail educational oversight.

[hoipolloi]

Jordan Muela's Facebook page is private, so I don't think I can go into detail about it here, but over on the Spiritual Souding Board thread they are reporting about a post he wrote on the Jackson family's ties to Kevin Swanson and the McDonalds.

Re: bolded. Well, well, well. Looks like the rot is wide and deep within the NCFIC fold. McDonald, Swanson & Brown all run churches affiliated with NCFIC

And also according to an SSB commenter, one of the brothers who has been charged was a NCFIC intern and on the Browns' road trip of 2011: scottbrownonline.com/road-trip-rollup/

Matthew Jackson flew into Chicago to be our mechanical genius. He kept every vehicle checked at each stop. Not only did he keep the vehicles hydrated and oiled, but he also pulled some of the better practical jokes along the way.

[DomWackTroll]

Jordan Muela’s FB page is public again, and boy are there some interesting discussions going on over there.

facebook.com/jordanmuela

Edited to break link.

[paganhomeschooler]

Someone needs to make home visits, and speak to each child individually. Children should be asked what they do for school work, if they are hit and how, how long they do school for, and things of that nature. I don't have a problem with different lesson plans because each child learns differently, so I don't think they have to spend much time with the parent on the chosen curriculum. But they should do home visits. There have been children locked in cages that no one knew about. Something has to intervene.

Really? I just asked my oldest, who has been in public school much longer than she was homeschooled, and she said no one at school has ever asked her if she was hit or if she does her homework or anything like that. I mean, WTF?? As PP have said, homeschooling is a small sector of the educational environment, and there are many, many children who are abused in public schools with no repercussions to the parents.

I don't have anything to hide, but do you invite strangers into your home for the hell of it? I sure don't! And why shouldn't that be mandatory for public schooled kids, too? Think of all the kids that could be saved if every public schooled kid's home was checked to make sure it was safe? Why penalize responsible homeschoolers. You say if it saved 1 life. Well, what about public schooled kids lives? Are theirs not important?

[JellyHope]

Really? I just asked my oldest, who has been in public school much longer than she was homeschooled, and she said no one at school has ever asked her if she was hit or if she does her homework or anything like that. I mean, WTF?? As PP have said, homeschooling is a small sector of the educational environment, and there are many, many children who are abused in public schools with no repercussions to the parents.

I don't have anything to hide, but do you invite strangers into your home for the hell of it? I sure don't! And why shouldn't that be mandatory for public schooled kids, too? Think of all the kids that could be saved if every public schooled kid's home was checked to make sure it was safe? Why penalize responsible homeschoolers. You say if it saved 1 life. Well, what about public schooled kids lives? Are theirs not important?

Wait I'm confused. No one at your daughter's school has her turn in homework? What grade is she in? Also, it's not really a regular standard practice to just ask each student if they've ever been abused or hit, etc.

And to a PP, in what ways does the government monitor public schools? I mean, besides those wretched state tests.

[paganhomeschooler]

I know you love to stand up for homeschooling but that is complete bullshit. If kids are starved and beaten and go to public school, the teacher notices. It is the kids never seen by the outside world who are in real danger, the ones never taken to the doctor or seen by another adult because the parents keep them at home.

There needs to be much tighter regulations around home schooling. In some states there is almost no standards at all-- including the Duggar's home state where I think they are tested but don't have to pass anything. I would like to see regulations that include home visits, physical and mental testing of the children, and testing of the person in charge of the home schooling. Also some basic educational materials that must be read and understood-- none of this wisdom book crap.

My husband went to public school his whole school career and was beaten and starved. They often had 1 meal a day, and I use the word "meal" lightly. Do you remember the old chicken littles from KFC in the 80s? 1 of those could constitute a "meal" for them. There were times he'd share a cheesburger from McDonald's with his little brother for "dinner". FWIW, school was the only time they really left the house, too. They weren't allowed to play outside. They were rarely even allowed to visit their grandparents. If they were, they had to sit in the car while their dad would go in and eat and they had nothing. School sure did a lot for those 3 kids, didn't it?

I think you have a very narrow view of what homeschooling is. Most homeschoolers are out and about more than they're in. Fundies are a very small segment of homeschoolers. No, the Duggars and their kind don't do it right, but most do. Just like my in laws didn't raise their kids right, but most people do. My homeschooled son has taekwondo twice a week. We have library day. We help out in my younger son's classroom at school once a week. We used to go to homeschool gym and homeschool swim class twice a week before we moved because it's just too far now. There are field trips to the local science museum and zoos. There is Harry Potter and Lego club. There is homeschool park day and teen/tween group. Most homeschoolers, myself included, have to turn things down and pick and choose because there is so much to do we'd never be home to learn anything if we did it all! Oh, there are also co-ops, homeschool bowling league, homeschool skate day, homeschool art class. There is something to do literally every single day. The zoo even has special zoology related homeschooling classes. I can go on and on.

Yes, wisdom booklets suck, and I'd never use them for my kids, but is it really that much suckier than what many private christian schools teach? No, not really. I remember the Christian school kids that rode the bus with us Catholic school kids had to wear long skirts and collared shirts and were taught creationism.

In a perfect world, kids wouldn't be abused, but the world is not perfect and there is no solution that will save every kid. Assholes exist, and if someone is a big enough asshole to hurt a child, they're going to do it whether their kids go to school or not!

[paganhomeschooler]

I am all about much tighter homeschool education standards. Much tighter. But I can't get behind giving social workers, police, or any authority the right to be able to go in and question homeschoolers about abuse simply because of the fact they are homeschooled. I can see making yearly safety lessons with documentation a requirement for homeschoolers, such as proof they know when and how to dial 911, what abuse is, how to avoid or get help for drugs and alcohol etc. Make it age and grade appropriate, tie it into health lessons like the public schools.

Interrogating homeschoolers on the basis of education choice is never going to fly or pass a court challenge. It will rightfully be seen as social profiling and I fear used as a bloody shirt to derail educational oversight.

Actually, in my state, that is a requirement. Fire safety/basic first aid/house safety in general is one of the things I have to put my signature to on our yearly notification.

And thank you on behalf of homeschoolers doing the right thing (which really is the majority of us).

[paganhomeschooler]

Wait I'm confused. No one at your daughter's school has her turn in homework? What grade is she in? Also, it's not really a regular standard practice to just ask each student if they've ever been abused or hit, etc.

And to a PP, in what ways does the government monitor public schools? I mean, besides those wretched state tests.

She turns in homework, but there is no one overseeing her making sure turns in all of it. She's gotten lazy, like any kid, and lied to me and said she doesn't have homework and doesn't turn it in. She's a middleschooler. There is not one singular person who is overseeing her work, though, and asking questions. Sorry, I'm working and trying to get out a coherent thought and get my work done at the same time. Not all of her homework is graded, either. Some of it they go over by themselves in class, so the teacher has no proof if they did it or not. It was stuff for practice. She also has different teachers for each class, so she could turn in all of her language arts but no science and her homeroom band teacher would never know the difference. My elementary daughter has a D- in math right now and didn't bring home/do the extra credit she was given. No one was holding her hand and making sure it was done at school. I had asked how she was doing because I had noticed her grades not looking that great, and all they said was, "well, we send the papers home." When I mentioned setting up some way of being notified so I can make sure she does it, I was told the same thing. It's her responsibility. She doesn't need hand holding. But sending someone to my house to make sure my son is doing his workbook is a pressing concern? Hell, I didn't do my homework in high school. I knew I could ace the tests and get extra credit and still score a B or better, so I didn't do it because it wasn't worth wasting my time. My teachers knew I didn't do my homework, but they didn't do anything about it. Which is, again, the point I was trying to make.

It's not standard practice at public schools to ask kids if they're doing their work or if they're being abused, so why should it be standard practice to do it to homeschoolers?

[theologygeek]

My issue with mandated home visits is that it creates an assumption that if you homeschool you're abusing your kids. I agree that kids that go to school have a more frequent "abuse check" than homeschooled kids, but homeschooled kids go to the doctor, church, stores, etc where people also pay attention and make well-check phone calls.

I would rather see a focus on modifying homeschool laws to include more consistent across-state oversight. I don't think Arkansas should have such wildly different criteria from California. Some expectations will be different based on culture, location, developmental abilities, etc but I don't think there's needs to be such a difference just because of what your zip code is. I don't think programs should be outlawed or required but if a child isn't meeting milestones because they are using a certain lesson plan then intervening steps might be taken.

The overall feeling I'm getting (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that you feel that homeschooling is a fringe option that is used a lot by child abusers where I feel that it's a viable alternative learning method that is used by good parents, but the bad apples in that group make a bad name for all. If this is how you feel (again, I could be wildly wrong) then I think it explains why we come at the problem from such different angles.

I don't think that homeschooling "is a fringe option that is used by child abusers." I think that the government should monitor homeschoolers because they are not monitored very well now. What's the big deal? If I homeschooled, I would let everyone and their mother into my home if it saved a child from abuse. My kids were never hit. I have nothing to hide.

[Antimony]

It's not standard practice at public schools to ask kids if they're doing their work or if they're being abused, so why should it be standard practice to do it to homeschoolers?

I really just think it operates in a different way and it would be difficult to compare. At least in my high school experience, teachers were trained to be a neutral adult -- they may or may not be part of your religion, they notice a lot more than kids think, etc. and I had friends who were shielded/protected from their parents more than once.

Teachers noticed when students were "off" -- overly sleep deprived (beyond normal up late video-games) or sad or seemed depressed. They would make up clubs or fudge tutoring hours to allow extra time away from home. I've seen teachers pay for student food for long periods of time in cases where the student didn't qualify for free lunch but was go without only because the parents were abusive. (Cooking clubs are often filled because of just this.) It was kind of this underground system of helping when nobody else could do anything or helping when the kid refused to admit entirely what was going on but was displaying all symptoms anyway.

Teachers are the first adult, I think, you see in life who isn't more loyal to your family than you. I think that's important for a child to have, abusive or not. They're neutral and there are enough of them that you can choose who should be most trusted. Hell, my parents were great but there were still things in my personal life that I asked teachers about first because they a) shouldn't judge me and b)If they did, they had little power to act out about it. I came out as bisexual to a teacher before any family. I think homeschooling, in isolated cases, is very dangerous in this aspect.

On the other hand, homeschooling that includes it, I am fine with. My exboyfriend (still my BFF) works as a fencing coach and a plurality of his students are homeschooled. Yet, he's still a teacher outside from home who talks to his students outside of the influence of their parents and thus fulfills that "neutral adult" role that public school teachers do.

Work is different, but more and more I'm seeing younger kids have to have their homework signed or even with technology playing a bigger role, parents having to password-sign it, etc.

[Arete]

I don't think that homeschooling "is a fringe option that is used by child abusers." I think that the government should monitor homeschoolers because they are not monitored very well now. What's the big deal? If I homeschooled, I would let everyone and their mother into my home if it saved a child from abuse. My kids were never hit. I have nothing to hide.

We were never hit either, and there is no way my father would have ever allowed a government authority into our house without a warrant. I imagine most people with nothing to hide would feel the same way. Sorry, most people are not OK with the concept of allowing the government to waltz in and search them whenever they please. It is so important a concept in American judicial history that murderers have walked free because of improper searches. There is no chance that the majority of hs families would roll over and accept yearly searches, and neither would the public at large.

[JellyHope]

She turns in homework, but there is no one overseeing her making sure turns in all of it. She's gotten lazy, like any kid, and lied to me and said she doesn't have homework and doesn't turn it in. She's a middleschooler. There is not one singular person who is overseeing her work, though, and asking questions. Sorry, I'm working and trying to get out a coherent thought and get my work done at the same time. Not all of her homework is graded, either. Some of it they go over by themselves in class, so the teacher has no proof if they did it or not. It was stuff for practice. She also has different teachers for each class, so she could turn in all of her language arts but no science and her homeroom band teacher would never know the difference. My elementary daughter has a D- in math right now and didn't bring home/do the extra credit she was given. No one was holding her hand and making sure it was done at school. I had asked how she was doing because I had noticed her grades not looking that great, and all they said was, "well, we send the papers home." When I mentioned setting up some way of being notified so I can make sure she does it, I was told the same thing. It's her responsibility. She doesn't need hand holding. But sending someone to my house to make sure my son is doing his workbook is a pressing concern? Hell, I didn't do my homework in high school. I knew I could ace the tests and get extra credit and still score a B or better, so I didn't do it because it wasn't worth wasting my time. My teachers knew I didn't do my homework, but they didn't do anything about it. Which is, again, the point I was trying to make.

It's not standard practice at public schools to ask kids if they're doing their work or if they're being abused, so why should it be standard practice to do it to homeschoolers?

What the hell kind of schools are these? Are there consequences for not turning in homework? I taught middle school for years, most of my friends are teachers, too, all levels. Never heard of schools/teachers operating this way. Especially your middle school student. Can you see her grades/homework status online? I taught 8th grade, & yes, there is definitely a level of "it's her responsibility." I didn't call home every time 1 of my 120 students didn't turn homework in. But it would be reflected on the website the parents could access by that afternoon, that there was a missing assignment & the effect the zero had on her grade. Definitely by the 8th grade I'd say it's 80% the students' responsibility. But if I had a student who repeatedly wasn't turning in homework, I'd be calling home, possibly setting up a meeting.

And we were trained what to look for as far as characteristics of kids enduring some sort of abuse. I've contacted CPS twice. (Granted, wasn't this grand intensive training.)

Sorry for being ranty & soapboxy. I can get kind of defensive of public schools & public school teachers.

Edited bc riffles

[dcmhejbl62]

I'll confirm that schools are trending away from making students turn in homework, or even notifying parents when it isn't turned in. In fact, part of the reason we sent our child back to public school in middle school was to get used to all the solo responsibility before he hit high school.

It's only gotten worse since then. I think the technology era has given teachers / schools an "out" to say they've done enough -- "Look, the assignment was on the board, and on the web gradebook, your responsibility not mine." Often they don't even ask for the homework; there is a bin that assignments are put in at the start of class, and off they move to the next lesson.

And don't get me started about teachers who enter grades once every four weeks, but do not accept late work (hint for your ADD child, write it into the 504 / IEP or it doesnt exist, folks).

Oh, and no, there are very few "neutral adult guardian angels" or whatever in a 2000 student high school. Only one noticed my son's sliding grades and lethargy (called "boredom" "laziness" and "not paying attention" by the other teachers who even noticed), and even she never called me. Recalled it in hindsight after his diagnosis with a serious illness that caused him to miss most of the school year

Even so, I don't blame the teachers, they are seriously overworked and have done a fabulous job educating in spite of it. But no, if most homeschool kids were in public school, I don't think the vast majority of abuse and neglect cases would be noticed or followed up on. It's just not set up that way.

[ShesCrafty]

What the hell kind of schools are these? Are there consequences for not turning in homework? I taught middle school for years, most of my friends are teachers, too, all levels. Never heard of schools/teachers operating this way. Especially your middle school student. Can you see her grades/homework status online? I taught 8th grade, & yes, there is definitely a level of "it's her responsibility." I didn't call home every time 1 of my 120 students didn't turn homework in. But it would be reflected on the website the parents could access by that afternoon, that there was a missing assignment & the effect the zero had on her grade. Definitely by the 8th grade I'd say it's 80% the students' responsibility. But if I had a student who repeatedly wasn't turning in homework, I'd be calling home, possibly setting up a meeting.

And we were trained what to look for as far as characteristics of kids enduring some sort of abuse. I've contacted CPS twice. (Granted, wasn't this grand intensive training.)

Sorry for being ranty & soapboxy. I can get kind of defensive of public schools & public school teachers.

Edited bc riffles

I completely agree, Jellyhope. Just because your kids go to public school doesn't mean that parents are not still a vital part of their child's education. What kind of school are they attending that you cannot check their grades online? Or email their teacher? Do you ask your daughter if she has homework every night? In middle school, she probably does. Do you make her do it if she does? If she says no and is lying to you, are there consequences for her actions? By middle school, children SHOULD be taking more and more responsibility for doing their work and it is both the school AND the parents job to teach this.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

I don't think that homeschooling "is a fringe option that is used by child abusers." I think that the government should monitor homeschoolers because they are not monitored very well now. What's the big deal? If I homeschooled, I would let everyone and their mother into my home if it saved a child from abuse. My kids were never hit. I have nothing to hide.

Bullshit.

What if you didn't homeschool? What if you had a baby and a toddler? You'd be perfectly happy to let a government official into your house to see if you're doing things "right"? And who decides what is right? Your kids' fingernails are too long, you're not grooming them well enough. The baby isn't chubby enough, you will have to switch to formula. The baby is too chubby, you have neglected her by not breast feeding. You have cereal with hfcs and dyes, throw it out. How many hours have you logged reading to them this week? May I look at their closets please? Are you sleeping enough, is your patience wearing thin, are you getting angry with your children? It doesn't matter how much you're working with them at home, they have to go to preschool to get used to it. Wait, they're in daycare while you work, unacceptable.

Where the hell would it stop?

[Antimony]

Oh, and no, there are very few "neutral adult guardian angels" or whatever in a 2000 student high school. Only one noticed my son's sliding grades and lethargy (called "boredom" "laziness" and "not paying attention" by the other teachers who even noticed), and even she never called me. Recalled it in hindsight after his diagnosis with a serious illness that caused him to miss most of the school year

Maybe its different in bigger schools. My high school had about 800 students or so and I had the same French teacher for all four years, as well as the same English and math teachers for 2 years (though not consecutively). There was definitely time for teachers to know their students very well and pick up when something was going poorly.

Our teachers were also required to call the parents of every student they taught on a monthly (or close to it, monthly or 6 weeks) basis and give a report on how that child was doing in school. The teachers I was close with absolutely dreaded this because good calls just ate up time and calls where they had to a report a child doing poorly/not turning in work were usually met with hostility/yelling/being cussed out/told they weren't doing their job. They very often expressed that it was difficult to reach out to parents of struggling students when the students didn't care because it wasn't very welcome and perhaps this is a cultural issue that manifests in an "us v. them" attitude. This really must very school to school but mine very much forced teacher/parent interaction regarding grades and many teachers took troubled students under their wings without contacting parents in sensitive situations.

[coffeebean7]

This story is just mind-blowingly horrifying. I don't have anything to add except I'm scratching my head a bit over the timeline here. The girl is 16, and it started 12 years ago when she was 4. That would mean the oldest brother who was arrested would have been 15 when it started. It seems that he's the 4th oldest in the family. It seems unlikely that a group of brothers 15 and younger would just start molesting their baby sister without some kind of idea or example? Could it be that 3 older siblings were doing it as well? Or perhaps they were repeating something they saw in the extended family, or even they/some of them were molested as children? The point being, this really reads to me as a family/community with a history of sexual abuse.

If this case opens the door to investigating the church community there could easily be similar stories in other families and it could indeed be the nail in the coffin.

I'm wondering if the dad had a more active part in this...I totally agree that there's probably more of a family history of sexual abuse.

I also am saddened by thinking about girls out there in similar families where nobody is confessing. Sickening.

[apple1]

My elementary daughter has a D- in math right now and didn't bring home/do the extra credit she was given. No one was holding her hand and making sure it was done at school. I had asked how she was doing because I had noticed her grades not looking that great, and all they said was, "well, we send the papers home." When I mentioned setting up some way of being notified so I can make sure she does it, I was told the same thing. It's her responsibility.

If she has a D for not doing her math work - yeah, somebody is looking. That doesn't mean that the teacher is (or should be) handholding to get her to do it. Your post is kind of self-contadictory.

And sending one's kids to public school does not mean that the parent has no responsibility for the kids' education, nor does it mean that the kid - at some point - is absolved of responsibility to take an active part in learning.

Anyway - and I know that FJ doesn't have "off topic" - I firmly believe that whatever really went on in the family from the OP, homeschooling may have been a side issue, but only a side issue. There is much more to the story than is being told at the moment.

[DomWackTroll]

If she has a D for not doing her math work - yeah, somebody is looking. That doesn't mean that the teacher is (or should be) handholding to get her to do it. Your post is kind of self-contadictory.

And sending one's kids to public school does not mean that the parent has no responsibility for the kids' education, nor does it mean that the kid - at some point - is absolved of responsibility to take an active part in learning.

Anyway - and I know that FJ doesn't have "off topic" - I firmly believe that whatever really went on in the family from the OP, homeschooling may have been a side issue, but only a side issue. There is much more to the story than is being told at the moment.

While I absolutely believe that the boys were brainwashed by VF/NCFIC teachings, look at Eric's Facebook page and tell me that this is a man who would "take an hour to write his first name." He had a business website and was out in the community doing his job. From Matthew's FB page, we can tell he's an immature asshole, but we can also see that he's clearly not illiterate. He, even moreso than his brother, was out in the "real world," flying back and forth from Colorado and even traveling internationally.

These men are going to milk the "ignorant" and "sheltered" argument for all it's worth, because that's their best defense. But I don't think the problem is that they weren't educated. The problem is that they were educated-- into a paranoid anti-government mindset and a viciously misogynistic subculture. Dan Horn and Scott Brown reported this crime, but only after they created an environment in which such crimes are allowed to flourish. Yes, the parents are horrible and deserve much of the blame. But if Horn, Brown, and VF/NCFIC get none of the blame, this insanity will continue.

And while I'm at it, since when do the police need the parents' "permission" to question an abused child when they have multiple confessions? This whole thing STINKS.

[notablesquid]

According to Scott Brown, Scott Brown is the hero here:

scottbrownonline.com/eric-jackson-and-the-power-of-the-gospel/

[Mama Mia]

I don't think that homeschooling "is a fringe option that is used by child abusers." I think that the government should monitor homeschoolers because they are not monitored very well now. What's the big deal? If I homeschooled, I would let everyone and their mother into my home if it saved a child from abuse. My kids were never hit. I have nothing to hide.

Gee, that's great your kids were never hit. It would be super awesome if the quarter of a Million kids a year who are hit by a teacher / administrator in Public School in one of the twenty+ states where it is legal in the U.S could say the same. :roll:

FYI, I am not at all against public school. Most of my kids were never homeschooled, and the ones that were it was because the public school didn't fit their particular needs at one point or another, and their homeschooling was almost exclusively tied to home school programs operated by our school district that included working with a credentialed teacher. One of my daughters is a public school teacher. So defending home schooling does not equal thinking public school are bad overall, I have just seen some serious flaws in the system for some kids. The same can be said for homeschooling or private schools. I just don't like the tendency to point out out any problem a home schooled child has academically or socially and assume its because the child is homeschooled.

If the abuse in the home was sexual, without other physical abuse or neglect, what would a home visitor discover anyway? Or a public school teacher if the kids went to public school? This isn't a situation where one much older sibling molested a younger sibling and kept it secret from everyone, through threats or manipulation. It's not a situation where a drugged out parent is spending the food money on crack and the kids are noticeably disheveled and complaining of hunger. It's not a situation where an overwhelmed parent snaps and gets violent and is remorseful. It's not even a situation where the parents are using excessive corporeal punishment because they think it's the right thing to do. This is a family that managed to hide systemic sexual abuse of a targeted child, by multiple people, for a decade. They would certainly know what to say to a social worker or teacher who was asking a few questions.

[CloakNDagger]

While I absolutely believe that the boys were brainwashed by VF/NCFIC teachings, look at Eric's Facebook page and tell me that this is a man who would "take an hour to write his first name." He had a business website and was out in the community doing his job. From Matthew's FB page, we can tell he's an immature asshole, but we can also see that he's clearly not illiterate. He, even moreso than his brother, was out in the "real world," flying back and forth from Colorado and even traveling internationally.

These men are going to milk the "ignorant" and "sheltered" argument for all it's worth, because that's their best defense. But I don't think the problem is that they weren't educated. The problem is that they were educated-- into a paranoid anti-government mindset and a viciously misogynistic subculture. Dan Horn and Scott Brown reported this crime, but only after they created an environment in which such crimes are allowed to flourish. Yes, the parents are horrible and deserve much of the blame. But if Horn, Brown, and VF/NCFIC get none of the blame, this insanity will continue.

And while I'm at it, since when do the police need the parents' "permission" to question an abused child when they have multiple confessions? This whole thing STINKS.

No, whatever you all think, I believe that the bolded statement this is NOT accurate with regards to an anti-government midset. The boys might have had this view, but I wouldn't consider it mainstream AT ALL. There are certainly a few elements of that crowd that are attracted by some of the products, but they are a fairly small percentage and you actually have a fairly good number of more pro-government / military families in the movement that are probably more mainstream.

Actually, a lot of the folks in this movement, especially those from the Gothard / IBLP camp are WAAAY more pro-government / big-government Republican types that look down their noses at the libertarian types.

[hoipolloi]

According to Scott Brown, Scott Brown is the hero here:

scottbrownonline.com/eric-jackson-and-the-power-of-the-gospel/

But how did this come to light? The reason this story is in the national news right now is because of the power of the gospel. Eric Jackson came to the church, responded to the preaching of the Word of God, recognized that he was a false convert, embraced the true gospel, and was born again. His new heart compelled him want to walk in the light. As a result, he confessed his sin.

He first went to my fellow Hope Baptist pastor, Dan Horn and confessed. We collaborated on the situation and the next day Dan called to report it to the authorities in Elizabeth City. Shortly thereafter Dan went with Eric to the authorities to turn himself in. In that meeting Eric exposed the patterns of evil in his home and his past participation in it. Finally, 18 months later when their investigation was complete, 8 of the 11 family members were indicted by a grand jury and jailed to await trial. The father and the mother, Jon and Nita Jackson are out of jail on bond.

Re: bolded. Nice "gospel" story, Scott, but we're missing some information. Isn't one of the 8 family members YOUR former intern? What if any action did NCFIC take regarding this individual?

Oh, and speaking "false converts," maybe it's time, Scott, for YOU to look in the bathroom mirror. Just sayin'.

[DomWackTroll]

No, whatever you all think, I believe that the bolded statement this is NOT accurate with regards to an anti-government midset. The boys might have had this view, but I wouldn't consider it mainstream AT ALL. There are certainly a few elements of that crowd that are attracted by some of the products, but they are a fairly small percentage and you actually have a fairly good number of more pro-government / military families in the movement that are probably more mainstream.

Actually, a lot of the folks in this movement, especially those from the Gothard / IBLP camp are WAAAY more pro-government / big-government Republican types that look down their noses at the libertarian types.

I specifically called out Horn, Brown, and VF/NCFIC. My post had nothing to do with Gothard/IBLP. And as for more VF/NCFIC followers being "pro-government" than "anti-government," please feel free to link to all their blogs where they praise the government and/or the military. Right off the top of my head, I can think of exactly one: Meredith What's-Her-Name's family. That's it.